The Bills Collection of Offensive Weapons No One Else Wanted

[jwhit34]

It is interesting to hear many talk about how great the BIlls' weapons are in the pass game. It's amazing that it is a collection of WRs that in some way no one else wanted:

 

Stefon Diggs:  A 5th round pick, granted the Bills gave up a first round pick plus others (which may or may not amount to anything) but at some level Minnesota decided they didn't need him anymore and wasn't part of their future so they traded him.

 

John Brown: Originally a low 3rd rounder, both Arizona and Baltimore didn't see the need to retain him (and it wasn't like there was a logjam at WR in Baltimore).

 

Cole Beasley: Undrafted FA, he had a very good career at Dallas and they had a lot of WRs, but still it wasn't like he was a super hot free agent two years ago

 

Gabriel Davis: 4th rounder

 

Isaiah McKenzie: 5th rounder, cut by Denver, waiver claim

 

Credit the talent evaluators for seeing something in each of them, the coaches for figuring out how to use their talents and out how to make them mesh, and mostly the players themselves for taking full advantage of their opportunity in Buffalo (and that of course includes Josh Allen). It's pretty neat.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

When you look at the overall success rates of draft picks, I'm sure you can find the same level of lower and undrafted players on every team.  I will agree it is rather unusual to see them all in one position group.

[scuba guy]

You didn't put the Duke on there

 

[DallasBillsFan1]

A great QB will elevate wide receivers who would otherwise seem good or above average.

[T master]

19 minutes ago, jwhit34 said:

It is interesting to hear many talk about how great the BIlls' weapons are in the pass game. It's amazing that it is a collection of WRs that in some way no one else wanted:

 

Stefon Diggs:  A 5th round pick, granted the Bills gave up a first round pick plus others (which may or may not amount to anything) but at some level Minnesota decided they didn't need him anymore and wasn't part of their future so they traded him.

 

John Brown: Originally a low 3rd rounder, both Arizona and Baltimore didn't see the need to retain him (and it wasn't like there was a logjam at WR in Baltimore).

 

Cole Beasley: Undrafted FA, he had a very good career at Dallas and they had a lot of WRs, but still it wasn't like he was a super hot free agent two years ago

 

Gabriel Davis: 4th rounder

 

Isaiah McKenzie: 5th rounder, cut by Denver, waiver claim

 

Credit the talent evaluators for seeing something in each of them, the coaches for figuring out how to use their talents and out how to make them mesh, and mostly the players themselves for taking full advantage of their opportunity in Buffalo (and that of course includes Josh Allen). It's pretty neat.

 

Only 2 on your list i think fits your post and 1 is Smoke the other Mckenzie.

 

 Beasley from what i remember didn't care for it in Dallas (can't blame him) because he felt he wasn't getting enough playing time or cash and who would really want to work for JJ all the time that guy is a jerk ask Jimmy Johnson .

 

I haven't had personal interactions with him but have worked inside Jerry World and personally known people that have while there that were on the same crew with me and have said he was a absolute jack ass and i believe them because i worked with them guys for 2 yrs .

 

The Bills wanted Gabe it's just that he was in a draft that was loaded with WR talent and he didn't go till the later rounds which is the same as Diggs .

 

The Vikings HC said he wasn't looking to get rid of Diggs but couldn't turn down the Bills offer Diggs had made it known for what ever reason that he wasn't truly happy there the Vikings way may have had a lot to do with it the Bills are more family type or real close friendships ??

 

Isaiah don't know a lot about him and if he was cut then to your point then yes he probably fits your post . There are always talented players that for what ever reason don't fit a scheme or don't like the way a coach goes about his business there could be many reasons .

[qbford8]

16 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

When you look at the overall success rates of draft picks, I'm sure you can find the same level of lower and undrafted players on every team.  I will agree it is rather unusual to see them all in one position group.

Yeah every team has one or two But the bills are consistently Drafting well for the last three years pretty much all the pics hit  and the free agents they get actually everybody they try to bring in the type of character and love for the game is perfect you can’t put a price tag on the chemistry a when I saw them dancing at the practice before the Colts game I literally felt like that was it I felt like they would win the Super Bowl we will see you know at this point every team is good Kansas City is not easy but none of the games they played are easy but they play for each other they love each other they love the game it’s so enjoyable to watch yeah there are a guy or two on each team but our team has in abundance of guys who got overlooked obviously I’m not talking about our early pics but you look at Levi taron  Cleveland let poyer go Andre Roberts he beat us by himself the year before he signed with us with the Jets obviously Beasley brown Milano was a 5th I think Dawson Huxx never scored a touchdown in college even McDermitthe nfl.com thing with him is the worst hiring that year like I said it has a lot to do with them loving each other loving the game and buying into the process chemistry is so important and it’s really never talked about but it’s probably the most important thing when it comes to winning And when I say chemistry I don’t mean timing on past routes that comes with practice the repetition I’m talking about chemistry between the guys how much they enjoy each other

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

2 minutes ago, qbford8 said:

Yeah every team has one or two But the bills are consistently Drafting well for the last three years pretty much all the pics hit  and the free agents they get actually everybody they try to bring in the type of character and love for the game is perfect you can’t put a price tag on the chemistry a when I saw them dancing at the practice before the Colts game I literally felt like that was it I felt like they would win the Super Bowl we will see you know at this point every team is good Kansas City is not easy but none of the games they played are easy but they play for each other they love each other they love the game it’s so enjoyable to watch yeah there are a guy or two on each team but our team has in abundance of guys who got overlooked obviously I’m not talking about our early pics but you look at Levi taron  Cleveland let poyer go Andre Roberts he beat us by himself the year before he signed with us with the Jets obviously Beasley brown Milano was a 5th I think Dawson Huxx never scored a touchdown in college even McDermitthe nfl.com thing with him is the worst hiring that year like I said it has a lot to do with them loving each other loving the game and buying into the process chemistry is so important and it’s really never talked about but it’s probably the most important thing when it comes to winning And when I say chemistry I don’t mean timing on past routes that comes with practice the repetition I’m talking about chemistry between the guys how much they enjoy each other

 

Good God I stopped reading after the 3rd line.  There is something called a carriage return!

[fasteddie]

3 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

Good God I stopped reading after the 3rd line.  There is something called a carriage return!

Beat me to it! An occasional period would make the longest sentence in the world readable.

[qbford8]

I’m not quite sure what that means  but Let’s go billsI Our front office is amazing this is very sustainable because of that and of course having a great quarterback let’s go Buffalo.  One day I’ll tell the story of how I became a bills fan at the  young age of five years old I am 36 now so if you can figure out what year that was the story’s  is pretty cool.  Sorry if there long winded responses I’m just absolutely on cloud nine with this team

3 minutes ago, fasteddie said:

Beat me to it! An occasional period would make the longest sentence in the world readable.

I do voice to text I can’t ***** sit there and type on the phone like Its just so annoying so that’s why there’s no grammar is there a way for me to get my phone to do grammar on its own?  Sorry mafia 

[Chicharito]

We need to hit on some speedy running backs! But it is a nice feeling to see that we have a good FO!

[JoshAllenReceipts]

1 hour ago, jwhit34 said:

It is interesting to hear many talk about how great the BIlls' weapons are in the pass game. It's amazing that it is a collection of WRs that in some way no one else wanted:

 

Stefon Diggs:  A 5th round pick, granted the Bills gave up a first round pick plus others (which may or may not amount to anything) but at some level Minnesota decided they didn't need him anymore and wasn't part of their future so they traded him.

 

John Brown: Originally a low 3rd rounder, both Arizona and Baltimore didn't see the need to retain him (and it wasn't like there was a logjam at WR in Baltimore).

 

Cole Beasley: Undrafted FA, he had a very good career at Dallas and they had a lot of WRs, but still it wasn't like he was a super hot free agent two years ago

 

Gabriel Davis: 4th rounder

 

Isaiah McKenzie: 5th rounder, cut by Denver, waiver claim

 

Credit the talent evaluators for seeing something in each of them, the coaches for figuring out how to use their talents and out how to make them mesh, and mostly the players themselves for taking full advantage of their opportunity in Buffalo (and that of course includes Josh Allen). It's pretty neat.

 

The Josh Allen Effect

 

Josh Allen makes his WRs

26 minutes ago, DallasBillsFan1 said:

A great QB will elevate wide receivers who would otherwise seem good or above average.

 

Bingo.

 

Josh Allen makes his WRs

 

 

The OP just laid out The Josh Allen Effect

[Bob in STL]

A great QB helps everyone.   A line that gives him time helps.  A creative OC helps.  
 

Our great Passing game is definitely attributed to the sum of the parts.  

[Dukestreetking]

Like the Island of Misfit Toys?

 

Edit for OP @jwhit34: meant this in a humorous way. I mean, think about the characters...

 

King Moonraker=Beane, Clarice=Kim Pegula, Coach Comet=Obvious; Hermey=Josh Allen; Rudolph=Diggs, the misunderstood reindeer who can fly.

 

Don't know if we have a Yukon Cornelius though.

Edited January 18, 2021 by Dukestreetking
S**ts & Giggles; clarity

[Nextmanup]

2 minutes ago, Dukestreetking said:

Like the Island of Misfit Toys?

I swear to God, there is a certain type of Bills fan that absolutely DEMANDS a total lack of respect from everyone and everything around them!  They just can't function without it!

 

 

[GoBills808]

5 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

I swear to God, there is a certain type of Bills fan that absolutely DEMANDS a total lack of respect from everyone and everything around them!  They just can't function without it!

 

 

And there is another type who just can’t stand that!

[Billsfan1972]

2 hours ago, JoshAllenReceipts said:

 

The Josh Allen Effect

 

Josh Allen makes his WRs

 

Bingo.

 

Josh Allen makes his WRs

 

 

The OP just laid out The Josh Allen Effect

But many talking heads are saying that the receivers made Josh & if only Lamar had them.....🙄

 

Of course we did draft Zay Jones.....  

 

Very simply every receiver the Bills have traded, let go or left the past 4 years have pretty much disappeared (except and let's not start an argument, because he has been paid Watkins).

 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

 

 

This thread is a STRETTTTTTTTTTTCH and a half.

 

Unwanted was a starting QB/WR corps of 7th round Ryan Fitzpatrick, 6th round Stevie Johnson and undrafteds Donald Jones and David Nelson.

 

All the current Bills were very much wanted players.........it's not like Diggs, Brown and Beasley are playing for peanuts that's about $30M in compensation right there.  

 

Davis was a second or third round talent that fell to round 4 only because the draft was incredibly deep at WR.

[FireChans]

4 hours ago, jwhit34 said:

It is interesting to hear many talk about how great the BIlls' weapons are in the pass game. It's amazing that it is a collection of WRs that in some way no one else wanted:

 

Stefon Diggs:  A 5th round pick, granted the Bills gave up a first round pick plus others (which may or may not amount to anything) but at some level Minnesota decided they didn't need him anymore and wasn't part of their future so they traded him.

 

John Brown: Originally a low 3rd rounder, both Arizona and Baltimore didn't see the need to retain him (and it wasn't like there was a logjam at WR in Baltimore).

 

Cole Beasley: Undrafted FA, he had a very good career at Dallas and they had a lot of WRs, but still it wasn't like he was a super hot free agent two years ago

 

Gabriel Davis: 4th rounder

 

Isaiah McKenzie: 5th rounder, cut by Denver, waiver claim

 

Credit the talent evaluators for seeing something in each of them, the coaches for figuring out how to use their talents and out how to make them mesh, and mostly the players themselves for taking full advantage of their opportunity in Buffalo (and that of course includes Josh Allen). It's pretty neat.

We out bid Dallas on Cole. John Brown got a pretty good contract.

[Forward Progress]

The national narrative has been that Allen is succeeding because he's been surrounded by talent at the WR position.  The data I've assembled here would support the explanation that Allen has elevated the play of the receivers on his team.  Every receiver's production is up measurably from their production on previous teams.  

 

 

I agree that we have a talented pool of receivers, but the main reason for Josh's success is the improved play of Josh Allen.

[Aussie Joe]

Can’t necessarily say that Brown and Beasley weren’t wanted....

 

They were free agents the Bills acquired because they offered the most money... doesn’t mean other Teams didn’t want them... Dallas put in an offer to retain Beasley..

[billsfan89]

McBeane has done a great job all around finding talent with lesser resources. In 2019 he rebuilt the Oline with only one major free agency addition (Mitch) and one high draft pick (Ford who hasn't put it together yet). He got Spain and Mongo to be starting caliber guards on the cheap and signed Ty to a mid level deal to be a decent RT.

 

McBeane in 2020 then found D.Willaims as the ultimate reclamation project at RT and developed Ike to handle Spain's duties once he imploded and Ford got hurt. 

 

If you look all around this roster you see a lot of great value findings. T.Johnson is a Nickel corner who was a 4th round pick, Levi Wallace was undradted and is starting opposite Tre, and Poyer was a complete out of nowhere lower mid-level signing at one of the safety positions.

 

Finding guys who are lesser heralded and turning them into productive players is how you build a Super Bowl contender.

[SCBills]

5 hours ago, DallasBillsFan1 said:

A great QB will elevate wide receivers who would otherwise seem good or above average.

 

THIS

 

Diggs is elite.  Did people consider him elite in Minnesota... talk of him being THE best WR in the NFL?

 

Nah, not with Cousins and whoever else, they didn't.  Through no fault of his own, he was held down by the scheme and QB play. 

 

Give Diggs all the love in the world, because he deserves it, but those with an agenda love to act like he made Josh Allen into what he's become.  They helped make each other into what they are.  There's a reason why every team playing for a Conference Championship has an elite QB and an elite WR1.  Exception being Tampa Bay who doesn't have an elite WR1, instead they just have 3 normal WR1's. 

 

 

Edited January 18, 2021 by SCBills

[billsbackto81]

1 hour ago, billsfan89 said:

McBeane has done a great job all around finding talent with lesser resources. In 2019 he rebuilt the Oline with only one major free agency addition (Mitch) and one high draft pick (Ford who hasn't put it together yet). He got Spain and Mongo to be starting caliber guards on the cheap and signed Ty to a mid level deal to be a decent RT.

 

McBeane in 2020 then found D.Willaims as the ultimate reclamation project at RT and developed Ike to handle Spain's duties once he imploded and Ford got hurt. 

 

If you look all around this roster you see a lot of great value findings. T.Johnson is a Nickel corner who was a 4th round pick, Levi Wallace was undradted and is starting opposite Tre, and Poyer was a complete out of nowhere lower mid-level signing at one of the safety positions.

 

Finding guys who are lesser heralded and turning them into productive players is how you build a Super Bowl contender.

True. Let's not forget the big guys like Williams and Mongo.

 

This is the best pass protecting O line in the NFL.

[SCBills]

12 minutes ago, billsbackto81 said:

True. Let's not forget the big guys like Williams and Mongo.

 

This is the best pass protecting O line in the NFL.

 

Keep them together at all costs.

 

Elite QB + Elite pass blocking OL + Elite WR Room = Super Bowl Contenders year in/year out.   

 

Make it work at RB/TE and scheme up the Defense around a handful of cornerstone players.  

 

Edited January 18, 2021 by SCBills

[Not at the table Karlos]

6 hours ago, T master said:

 

Only 2 on your list i think fits your post and 1 is Smoke the other Mckenzie.

 

 Beasley from what i remember didn't care for it in Dallas (can't blame him) because he felt he wasn't getting enough playing time or cash and who would really want to work for JJ all the time that guy is a jerk ask Jimmy Johnson .

 

I haven't had personal interactions with him but have worked inside Jerry World and personally known people that have while there that were on the same crew with me and have said he was a absolute jack ass and i believe them because i worked with them guys for 2 yrs .

 

The Bills wanted Gabe it's just that he was in a draft that was loaded with WR talent and he didn't go till the later rounds which is the same as Diggs .

 

The Vikings HC said he wasn't looking to get rid of Diggs but couldn't turn down the Bills offer Diggs had made it known for what ever reason that he wasn't truly happy there the Vikings way may have had a lot to do with it the Bills are more family type or real close friendships ??

 

Isaiah don't know a lot about him and if he was cut then to your point then yes he probably fits your post . There are always talented players that for what ever reason don't fit a scheme or don't like the way a coach goes about his business there could be many reasons .

I think Smoke is the one that wanted to leave Baltimore because he saw how little they were gonna throw with Jackson.  
 

IIRC the Broncos wanted to keep Mckenzie and brought him up to active roster when Bills tried to sign him off their PS. I think they tried to sneak him back on the PS a little while later and bills stole him. 

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

6 hours ago, fasteddie said:

Beat me to it! An occasional period would make the longest sentence in the world readable.

Some people hate using and having periods.

[billsfan89]

6 minutes ago, billsbackto81 said:

True. Let's not forget the big guys like Williams and Mongo.

 

This is the best pass protecting O line in the NFL.

 

There were actually very few "big ticket" acquisitions in free agency or via trade from 2017 to 2020. Star, Addison and Mitch were big contracts but other than that the AAV of the contracts were pretty modest and we all know Diggs was a big trade acquisition. But other than that if you look at the aav of key players acquired you will see a very modest set of acquisitions. Very few 10 million aav big time signings. A lot of players brought in at the 5-9 million aav range.

[gordong]

4 minutes ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

Some people hate using and having periods.

females??   LOL.  Kidding I'm Kidding

 

[Southern_Bills]

Honestly I don't think the success can be put on any one guy. The entire offense genuinely likes playing with one another and they love their coaches. The WRs bought the WR coach a new truck and have professed their love for Daboll.

 

So all in all you play your best when you are comfortable and having fun. Not rocket science, just sometimes it's hard to get the right attitudes/talent level in the same room. We are in that situation, we should enjoy it and realize it's a collective unit, not an individual, which is awesome. 

[Buffalo Boy]

7 hours ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

When you look at the overall success rates of draft picks, I'm sure you can find the same level of lower and undrafted players on every team.  I will agree it is rather unusual to see them all in one position group.

   Direct reflection on JA for raising the level of talent around him. 
   I would also credit Diggs for instilling a different level of professionalism to the whole group. Last year we led the leagues in drops. I don’t think Diggs tolerated half-assing  it on ANY plays and that is a huge addition of veteran leadership.

[Turf Toejam 34]

4 hours ago, Dukestreetking said:

Like the Island of Misfit Toys?

 

Edit for OP @jwhit34: meant this in a humorous way. I mean, think about the characters...

 

King Moonraker=Beane, Clarice=Kim Pegula, Coach Comet=Obvious; Hermey=Josh Allen; Rudolph=Diggs, the misunderstood reindeer who can fly.

 

Don't know if we have a Yukon Cornelius though.

Isn't Yukon Cornelius = Daboll?  

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

7 hours ago, qbford8 said:

I do voice to text I can’t ***** sit there and type on the phone like Its just so annoying so that’s why there’s no grammar is there a way for me to get my phone to do grammar on its own?  Sorry mafia 

 

I've done voice to text a fair amount too and understand the lack of punctuation.  But what you can do before hitting send, go back and manually proofread and just add in periods, paragraphs etc.

 

If you don't have the time to do that, then probably best not bother even texting as sorry, but doubt anyone has the ability to actually read that mess.

[Dukestreetking]

1 minute ago, Turf Toejam 34 said:

Isn't Yukon Cornelius = Daboll?  

Yes sir. Didn't think of him. There is even a physical resemblance. Wish I could do a side-by-side, but I'd just torque it up.

 

 

 

 

[DeltaDigital]

Josh Allen. Zero star recruit. 2 crappy D1 offers after JUCO. 

[jlgarsh]

2 hours ago, SCBills said:

 

THIS

 

Diggs is elite.  Did people consider him elite in Minnesota... talk of him being THE best WR in the NFL?

 

Nah, not with Cousins and whoever else, they didn't.  Through no fault of his own, he was held down by the scheme and QB play. 

 

Give Diggs all the love in the world, because he deserves it, but those with an agenda love to act like he made Josh Allen into what he's become.  They helped make each other into what they are.  There's a reason why every team playing for a Conference Championship has an elite QB and an elite WR1.  Exception being Tampa Bay who doesn't have an elite WR1, instead they just have 3 normal WR1's. 

 

 

Mike Evans is elite when healthy

11 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

I've done voice to text a fair amount too and understand the lack of punctuation.  But what you can do before hitting send, go back and manually proofread and just add in periods, paragraphs etc.

 

If you don't have the time to do that, then probably best not bother even texting as sorry, but doubt anyone has the ability to actually read that mess.

 Don't some voice to text things let you say period for . And question mark for ? Etc. I don't use it, but it would make sense to have that functionality 

[1ManRaid]

7 hours ago, qbford8 said:

 

I do voice to text I can’t ***** sit there and type on the phone like Its just so annoying so that’s why there’s no grammar is there a way for me to get my phone to do grammar on its own?  Sorry mafia 

 

I'm pretty sure you can still use voice commands to do punctuation and whatnot.  I occasionally hear my disabled friend say "period" at his phone and I don't think he means it like "end of story" heh.

[dave mcbride]

5 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

This thread is a STRETTTTTTTTTTTCH and a half.

 

Unwanted was a starting QB/WR corps of 7th round Ryan Fitzpatrick, 6th round Stevie Johnson and undrafteds Donald Jones and David Nelson.

 

All the current Bills were very much wanted players.........it's not like Diggs, Brown and Beasley are playing for peanuts that's about $30M in compensation right there.  

 

Davis was a second or third round talent that fell to round 4 only because the draft was incredibly deep at WR.

I entirely agree with your larger point,  but Gabe Davis seemed to be regarded as a fourth rounder before the draft. The scouting profiles are all pretty similar: https://www.nfl.com/prospects/gabriel-davis/32194441-5632-9675-38f5-3e009da4e98e (this one gives a 4th round projection).  Also: https://thedraftnetwork.com/player/gabriel-davis/LzTQiqevVH.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

5 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

I entirely agree with your larger point,  but Gabe Davis seemed to be regarded as a fourth rounder before the draft. The scouting profiles are all pretty similar: https://www.nfl.com/prospects/gabriel-davis/32194441-5632-9675-38f5-3e009da4e98e (this one gives a 4th round projection).  Also: https://thedraftnetwork.com/player/gabriel-davis/LzTQiqevVH.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh definitely.........Davis wasn't drafted earlier than expected.........it's just that it was possibly the deepest WR draft ever.    Most years.......especially a few of those lean ones right after 2014........he's likely a second or third.   

[Steve Billieve]

9 hours ago, fasteddie said:

Beat me to it! An occasional period would make the longest sentence in the world readable.

I'll have you know I read the whole thing.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

1 hour ago, jlgarsh said:

 Don't some voice to text things let you say period for . And question mark for ? Etc. I don't use it, but it would make sense to have that functionality 

 

I believe it does as I use to hear my boss from about 3 offices away dictating on his Samsung phone blah blah blah (period)  La la la (question mark) or whatever.  I don't do it often enough to bother, instead I just go back and manually insert all the punctuation I want/need.