Doc Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 9 minutes ago, Cheektowaga Chad said: The only thing I can think of as to why it was ruled down, the shin. The knee is definitely off the ground, but hiw much of the shin is still on the ground nd how much of a shin is needed to = down But then I think why wouldn't the NFL just explain this in the tweet rather than say the call stood 2 minutes ago, Cheektowaga Chad said: Earlier this season there was a 2 or 3 week stretch where guys were being ruled down or in bounds because of the shin - ill try to find the games His shin wasn't down. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheektowaga Chad Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 3 minutes ago, Doc said: His shin wasn't down. I agree But I need closure or reasoning because this play will eat me a live!!!!!!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 1 minute ago, Cheektowaga Chad said: I agree But I need closure or reasoning because this play will eat me a live!!!!!!! The reasoning is Al Riveron is incompetent or a crook. Almost everyone in the world knows it was a fumble. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevewin Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 18 minutes ago, Cheektowaga Chad said: The only thing I can think of as to why it was ruled down, the shin. The knee is definitely off the ground, but hiw much of the shin is still on the ground nd how much of a shin is needed to = down But then I think why wouldn't the NFL just explain this in the tweet rather than say the call stood If his knee wasn't down but his shin was he'd have to have a really funky shaped lower leg 😛 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codyny13 Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 15 hours ago, klos63 said: inexcusable bad call by the refs. And then they did it again to the Bucs last night. Clear fumble from Heinike and a clear recovery from the Bucs...and the Bucs had to call a timeout to get the review to buzz in. Just complete bafoonery from the officiating crews and NY yesterday. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmart128 Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 18 minutes ago, Cheektowaga Chad said: The only thing I can think of as to why it was ruled down, the shin. The knee is definitely off the ground, but hiw much of the shin is still on the ground nd how much of a shin is needed to = down But then I think why wouldn't the NFL just explain this in the tweet rather than say the call stood Yeah his shin was not down... you can clearly see the white 45 yard line on the football field before he was touched. That 100% evidence that no part of his body was down blocking that white line. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Mighty Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 Some good stuff on this in Terry McAulay’s Twitter feed but the gist is here: 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSBill Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 I did not read the entire thread, so forgive me if this has already been brought up. But here is my question: They said in the explanation that he was down by contact. Okay. But I would like to ask those officials, had he got up, took off and gained yards or scored a touchdown, are you calling it back? Would the review have spotted it there and kept the clock running? ..... My gut feeling, no way they would change it. Clearly the "down by contact" was them covering their behind(s). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSBill Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 1 hour ago, Kaenon said: I would like the NFL to come out with a statement today and just say they got the call wrong - sorry. I agree. That would bring closure. But their unending stubbornness and willing to lie (or, at least willingness to create Fake News) to everyone watching to cover their tails is what is frustrating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheektowaga Chad Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 Was it the cigarette smoking man from the x files making a call? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bookie Man Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 16 hours ago, Moonzoo said: How about the "catch" which was overturned earlier? The "catch" was not even a judgment call. That made me see where the refs were coming from. Which play are you referring to? I honestly don't remember this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 5 minutes ago, Raleigh • √eff said: Which play are you referring to? I honestly don't remember this. There was a long sideline throw to Hilton early in the game that basically hit him on the back and fell to the ground. One ref called it incomplete and another said it was a catch. They got it right utlimately, but how in the world the one ref could say he caught it is beyond explanation, except that he is incompetent or crooked. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bferra13 Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 7 minutes ago, Doc said: There was a long sideline throw to Hilton early in the game that basically hit him on the back and fell to the ground. One ref called it incomplete and another said it was a catch. They got it right utlimately, but how in the world the one ref could say he caught it is beyond explanation, except that he is incompetent or crooked. Or just a bad angle of view lol. This isn't 1963. If the ref had an agenda, that wouldn't be the play to show it with a million replays shown on HD tv's where it wasn't even close to catch and bounced off his hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 4 minutes ago, Bferra13 said: Or just a bad angle of view lol. This isn't 1963. If the ref had an agenda, that wouldn't be the play to show it with a million replays shown on HD tv's where it wasn't even close to catch and bounced off his hands. If so, don't make something up. This isn't hard. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Playoffs? Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 1 hour ago, Doc said: The reasoning is Al Riveron is incompetent or a crook. Almost everyone in the world knows it was a fumble. As for being a crook, tough to think it was a Vegas thing. Colts were already covering, and if Bills regained control, they weren’t scoring any more points... unless Vegas had a ridiculous amount of bets on the Bills money line... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 It wasn't crooked it was the usual thing of the refs not wanting their call to end the game. We see this frequently. Even though getting it wrong could still have been pivotal in the outcome they would still say "ah well the Bills still had a chance to stop them." Not crooked. Just cowardly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bookie Man Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 26 minutes ago, Doc said: There was a long sideline throw to Hilton early in the game that basically hit him on the back and fell to the ground. One ref called it incomplete and another said it was a catch. They got it right utlimately, but how in the world the one ref could say he caught it is beyond explanation, except that he is incompetent or crooked. OK that's what I thought. I was watching the game at bar packed with Bills fans. I saw they kept showing the replay like they were taking a hard look at it. I was confused. Didn't know they even thought about that as a catch. That crew shouldn't be allowed near playoff football... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klos63 Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 1 hour ago, Codyny13 said: And then they did it again to the Bucs last night. Clear fumble from Heinike and a clear recovery from the Bucs...and the Bucs had to call a timeout to get the review to buzz in. Just complete bafoonery from the officiating crews and NY yesterday. The refs missed two obvious calls in our game, the first drive incompletion to Hilton that was bouncing on the ground and they called complete, but that was fixed and then the fumble. Other than that, no issues with the refs, but that last one could have been huge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: It wasn't crooked it was the usual thing of the refs not wanting their call to end the game. We see this frequently. Even though getting it wrong could still have been pivotal in the outcome they would still say "ah well the Bills still had a chance to stop them." Not crooked. Just cowardly. That's not an excuse. Not wanting the game to end...on a call they got wrong initially and refused to fix makes them look even worse. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 Just now, Doc said: That's not an excuse. Not wanting the game to end...on a call they got wrong initially and refused to fix makes them look even worse. Wasn't giving it as an excuse. But that is what happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 37 minutes ago, Doc said: how in the world the one ref could say he caught it is beyond explanation It's neither an explanation nor an excuse, but I do remember thinking that the transition from sun to shadow in the part of the field may have had something to do with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T master Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 His knee was definitely off the ground and he was going to continue as a runner before Poyers hand was on his back the only thing i could imagine was the Ref didn't have the front view to see his hand not touch him before his knee came up . That along with the Ref's not calling a penalty when the clock hit 0 and letting the play go on after the clock hit 0 was terrible especially because it happened a lot you could get over once maybe twice but they missed that call quite a bit . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 Just now, klos63 said: The refs missed two obvious calls in our game, the first drive incompletion to Hilton that was bouncing on the ground and they called complete, but that was fixed and then the fumble. Other than that, no issues with the refs, but that last one could have been huge. They also missed a facemask on Roberts when he brought the ball out of the endzone up the right sideline to about the 12 yard line in the second quarter. They called the Bills for holding and they started at their own 6 yard line - instead of offsetting penalties. The Bills then went 3 and out. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T master Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 Just now, T master said: His knee was definitely off the ground and he was going to continue as a runner before Poyers hand wasn't on his back the only thing i could imagine was the Ref didn't have the front view to see his hand not touch him before his knee came up . That along with the Ref's not calling a penalty when the clock hit 0 and letting the play go on after the clock hit 0 was terrible especially because it happened a lot you could get over once maybe twice but they missed that call quite a bit . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 7 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Wasn't giving it as an excuse. But that is what happened. What happened is they blew the call and everyone knows it. But your explanation that they didn't want to make the correct call and end the game...is still crooked. 5 minutes ago, Simon said: It's neither an explanation nor an excuse, but I do remember thinking that the transition from sun to shadow in the part of the field may have had something to do with it. Sure that could have messed with it. Why make up a call then? If he didn't see him catch the ball, don't say anything. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaenon Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 41 minutes ago, Bferra13 said: Or just a bad angle of view lol. This isn't 1963. If the ref had an agenda, that wouldn't be the play to show it with a million replays shown on HD tv's where it wasn't even close to catch and bounced off his hands. Sure - but to the contrary, unless you know definitively and saw the catch secured, as someone who has red's (albeit a different sport), you signal you didn't have a clear view and therefore cannot say in that moment if it was a catch or not. Just my opinion. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Linen Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 3 hours ago, YoloinOhio said: There was no challenge. No challenges allowed in the last 2 minutes. So he called TO because Phil ran up to the line to run a play before they could review it. The TO ensured a review would actually take place. But Simon said the buzzer for booth review came "simultaneously" as McD was calling the timeout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stank_Nasty Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 3 minutes ago, White Linen said: But Simon said the buzzer for booth review came "simultaneously" as McD was calling the timeout. Right. That’s why we got the TO back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nextmanup Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 Just now, Over 29 years of fanhood said: Was unbelievable they didn’t stop the game after. They stopped the bills late 2Q drive 3 or 4 times to review plays. This is the part that infuriated me most. That was a game deciding, complicated, pivotal call...and they just kept the game rolling along like it was a routine play! Can't believe they didn't stop and analyze immediately! I think what a lot of Bills fans are missing is that the entire play hinged on the timing of the hand on the down player relatively to when he picked his knee back up. It was EXTREMELY close and you could have probably ruled either way, that he touched him while down, or did not touch him while down. Because of that, the officials in New York ruled "inconclusive" and had to go with ruling on field, which was down by contact. Had the call been the opposite on the field, that too would have stood up under review, and we would have won the game right there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 4 minutes ago, Nextmanup said: This is the part that infuriated me most. That was a game deciding, complicated, pivotal call...and they just kept the game rolling along like it was a routine play! Can't believe they didn't stop and analyze immediately! I think what a lot of Bills fans are missing is that the entire play hinged on the timing of the hand on the down player relatively to when he picked his knee back up. It was EXTREMELY close and you could have probably ruled either way, that he touched him while down, or did not touch him while down. Because of that, the officials in New York ruled "inconclusive" and had to go with ruling on field, which was down by contact. Had the call been the opposite on the field, that too would have stood up under review, and we would have won the game right there. Except that his knee was clearly off the ground and then he fumbled. Bills’ ball, game over. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rochesterfan Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 1 hour ago, Simon said: It's neither an explanation nor an excuse, but I do remember thinking that the transition from sun to shadow in the part of the field may have had something to do with it. I also believe that referee was really commenting about his feet being in bounds and he made the assumption it was caught. You see it all the time where one guy comes up and rules it a catch because from his angle he is looking for feet and where he goes out of bounds. The 2nd ref comes up because his focus is supposed to be on the ball and realizes he bobbled or dropped it and the call gets overturned. They also consult with other officials if needed and try to piece it together. Look I give them a ton of credit because they are trying to judge split seconds toe taps and fingertip grabs and decide the exact second they happen and they usually get the call right. On the Hilton play - the refs called it incomplete long before the TV team knew what was going on. That was less on the refs and more on the announcers. The refs got together and the one guy had clear visual that the ball landed on the ground next to the receiver and over ruled the other ref that could not see it because of the Bills defender. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dukestreetking Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 (edited) This. Compounded a bit by point made by @Simon. Do we have at least this one cleared up now? ("This" refers to explanation by @Rochesterfan) Edited January 10, 2021 by Dukestreetking My writing sucks at the moment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Success Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 This is still bothering me. They had the perfect camera angle. When you freeze frame, his knee is very clearly off the ground before the defender's hand touches his back. This is exactly why we have replay. It's difficult to understand why any ref doesn't overturn that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Linen Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 28 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said: Right. That’s why we got the TO back. Or we got the TO back because they reviewed it after McD called the TO and complained. Good, both theories are clearly out there.... again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bermuda Triangle Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 10 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said: On the Hilton play - the refs called it incomplete long before the TV team knew what was going on. That was less on the refs and more on the announcers. The refs got together and the one guy had clear visual that the ball landed on the ground next to the receiver and over ruled the other ref that could not see it because of the Bills defender. So the ref who called it complete clearly saw Hilton catch and possess the ball? If he didn't, then why would he call it complete? My answer: these coward POS refs want replay to bail them out, but their crappy calls create a presumption that, given the NFL replay standards, is often times extremely difficult to overcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SF Bills Fan Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 It was an obvious fumble. I was screaming and dropping F bombs and I felt bad because I was watching with my neighbor who is a Bills fan is also the minister at our church. I’m pretty sure he was dropping them in his head- just had the restraint to keep them in. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dukestreetking Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 1 hour ago, SF Bills Fan said: I was screaming and dropping F bombs and I felt bad because I was watching with my neighbor who is a Bills fan is also the minister at our church. Now THAT is freaking funny. Thanks for sharing the scene. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussie Joe Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 3 hours ago, GunnerBill said: Wasn't giving it as an excuse. But that is what happened. Nah... some idiot just f’ed up... Happens a lot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanC883 Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 21 hours ago, Best Williams Available said: Why is a call like this even the responsibility of 1 guy in the field looking at a tiny low Rez monitor??? MLB sends it back to a group of people that look at it from both teams cameras at all angles then tells the ump what to do. Am I wrong about the NFL’s procedure here? yeah if that’s the process it’s insane. the person who made the bad call reviewing the call. it should go to a central review. also, I think it was Simms who was decently ticked off about this bad call postgame. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 2 hours ago, Nextmanup said: This is the part that infuriated me most. That was a game deciding, complicated, pivotal call...and they just kept the game rolling along like it was a routine play! Can't believe they didn't stop and analyze immediately! I think what a lot of Bills fans are missing is that the entire play hinged on the timing of the hand on the down player relatively to when he picked his knee back up. It was EXTREMELY close and you could have probably ruled either way, that he touched him while down, or did not touch him while down. Because of that, the officials in New York ruled "inconclusive" and had to go with ruling on field, which was down by contact. Had the call been the opposite on the field, that too would have stood up under review, and we would have won the game right there. There was a still frame that was 100% clear. There was really no “either way” about it even if you’re trying to be Devil’s Advocate. It doesn’t matter that his knee was barely up. It was up and it was clear. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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