Zimmer needs to replace Oliver in starting lineup

[Victory Formation]

Just now, ILBillsfan said:

Thats the problem a guy makes a tfl in the 4th quarter(almost the strip too)  and is suddenly like the rest of the game didn't happen

Alright buddy, not going to argue with you.. take care now.

[BullBuchanan]

21 hours ago, High Football IQ said:

Oliver might be one of the worst draft picks the last 20 years.

 

Remember all that tough talk from him about nobody can block him? It's actually true because you can't block someone that's tossed aside with no resistance play after play.

 

If I were Beane I'd try trading him to a 3-4 team where he can play end or fill a niche roll because he's definitely not an NFL caliber interior dlineman.

Oliver is not good, but I think you're redefining hyperbole if you think he's "one of the worst draft picks of the last 20 years"

He's not even in the top 3 worst 1rst round picks of the Bills in the last 20 years, let alone all teams.

Edited October 20, 2020 by BullBuchanan

[Dablitzkrieg]

For those of you saying Zimmer was blown up on one play, go back and watch the game.  I count at least 7

[oldmanfan]

Move Oliver around more.  Let him come from outside in passing downs.

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

I still believe in Beanie and McD, I feel like we can beat any team but we are 1 more year away from truly  breaking through into Top 5 status. 
 

The main thing that I’m watching right now is Frazier, his play calling has been pretty bad. I think he is a great positional coach, mainly with the secondary. I am starting to feel like he is being out coached and his play calling is now being spotlighted because of the top tier offenses that we are playing this year.

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

If we could sign a NT and play a base 3-4 I wonder what it would look like. I would probably have Edmunds and Milano as my ILB’s with Hughes at ROLB and Dodson at LOLB. Get Epenesa back to 280 at RE and Oliver at LE. Obviously this would be for 2021 but I would love to try and copy what the Bucs are doing. The Bucs have guys blitzing from all over the place and confuse the hell out of the opposing offenses. I feel like Epenesa game is more power based, I would like to see him at 280lbs. I see him getting pushed around at 260

[Buffalo Barbarian]

On 10/19/2020 at 8:14 PM, Blainorama5 said:

Addison and Jefferson have flashed a few times, but mostly they just get handled pretty easily.  Guess Phillips made a bigger impact last year than I thought.

 

I knew it was a mistake then and unfortunately still is . Losing him , star and Liuget was a loss of 3 - 350  pound lineman which just cant be replaced with smaller "more talented" players.

 

 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

8 minutes ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

If we could sign a NT and play a base 3-4 I wonder what it would look like. I would probably have Edmunds and Milano as my ILB’s with Hughes at ROLB and Dodson at LOLB. Get Epenesa back to 280 at RE and Oliver at LE. Obviously this would be for 2021 but I would love to try and copy what the Bucs are doing. The Bucs have guys blitzing from all over the place and confuse the hell out of the opposing offenses. I feel like Epenesa game is more power based, I would like to see him at 280lbs. I see him getting pushed around at 260

 

 Love the 34 but just dont see it here. We just need big DTs and Ends in the 275 range and we would be fine, kind of like the previous 3years. Blitzing would also be nice , this over conservative zone  sucks when you dont have the horses up front. We could use some Jim Schwartz aggressiveness right now, he literally transformed our defense from a joke to terrorists in one year with the same guys.

 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

12 minutes ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

I knew it was a mistake then and unfortunately still is . Losing him , star and Liuget was a loss of 3 - 350  pound lineman which just cant be replaced with smaller "more talented" players.

 

 

 

 

Phillips was a penetrating beast but just terrible against the run other than that occasional TFL.

 

They tried to put him at 1T but he never played with much balance and he just couldn't do it.......he immediately gave up his shoulder and got washed whichever way the OG wanted him to go.

 

Liuget was more of a 280-290# guy and also pathetic against the run so your memory is off there.   

 

Star was a net loss against the run as well and whatever they lose in size with him they got back in the 340# Vernon Butler.

 

Their two best run defenders at DT last year were Oliver and Harrison Phillips.

 

They are both back but neither is at full strength.   

 

People forget that this team has been totally trampled in the run game at times in every season since McD has been here.   

 

Remember Philadelphia coming into Buffalo and throwing up 200 on the ground last year?  

 

And it was the inability to stop the Texans run game that sparked their comeback in the playoff game. 

 

At least the poor run defense yesterday had the excuse of being because of 6 man boxes all night.

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

15 minutes ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

 Love the 34 but just dont see it here. We just need big DTs and Ends in the 275 range and we would be fine, kind of like the previous 3years. Blitzing would also be nice , this over conservative zone  sucks when you dont have the horses up front. We could use some Jim Schwartz aggressiveness right now, he literally transformed our defense from a joke to terrorists in one year with the same guys.

 

 

I would say the D-Line is going to be overhauled to some extent in 2021. I think the transition to a 3-4 would be a good idea but we would need a new DC for that. Dan Quinn is a guy I would keep a eye on. He is probably going back to being a DC and someone I would throw money at. Quinn was one of those guys who is a great DC but not so good as a HC. 

[ChattanoogaBills]

14 hours ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

I would say the D-Line is going to be overhauled to some extent in 2021. I think the transition to a 3-4 would be a good idea but we would need a new DC for that. Dan Quinn is a guy I would keep a eye on. He is probably going back to being a DC and someone I would throw money at. Quinn was one of those guys who is a great DC but not so good as a HC. 

Noo... Dan Quinn is hot garbage. He runs zone usually cover 3. Atlanta defense was so happy to get rid of him. I'd rather keep Frazier as dc rather than downgrade...

Also my brother is a falcons fans he just cancelled his season tickets before Quinn was fired. My brother who is not a football guru could call what defense atl was playing as soon as they broke the huddle. That's on Quinn

 

[colin]

aside from just perhaps not being talented enough (which would come down to guys being hurt, getting a bit older, and phillips and shak being replaced by lesser and not cheaper nor younger players, *gulp*) i think we have a scheme problem up front.

 

the stunts and games our DL have been playing didn't seem to work and the 3/5s back up linemen on the KC Oline seemed to know where they would be just about every play.  

 

to a decent extent being a DC in the NFL is playing rock paper scissors, we showed scissors every single snap, and the O called rock and smashed us.  at some point, you HAVE to pull some tricks and make them guess wrongly.  we did that pretty well last year.

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

1 hour ago, ChattanoogaBills said:

Noo... Dan Quinn is hot garbage. He runs zone usually cover 3. Atlanta defense was so happy to get rid of him. I'd rather keep Frazier as dc rather than downgrade...

Also my brother is a falcons fans he just cancelled his season tickets before Quinn was fired. My brother who is not a football guru could call what defense atl was playing as soon as they broke the huddle. That's on Quinn

 

The Falcons defense is so devoid of talent that not even the ghost of Buddy Ryan would be able to get them to play. When Quinn was in Seattle he had elite talent to work with and fielded some of the top defenses in the NFL. I guarantee when Quinn goes back to focusing on just being a DC he will once again field a top 10 defensive unit.

[boater]

Signed to the active roster.

 

https://www.buffalobills.com/news/bills-promote-dt-justin-zimmer-to-the-53-man-roster

[WMDman]

4 minutes ago, boater said:

Signed to the active roster.

 

https://www.buffalobills.com/news/bills-promote-dt-justin-zimmer-to-the-53-man-roster

ugh just use him on passing downs

[fansince88]

Hey @bills6969, got half your wish.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

So now on the bust list are:

 

Cody Ford 

Ed Oliver

Tremaind Edmunds 

of course Josh
 

 

I guess in a few Weeks it’ll be Tre white. May as well add Milano as he never gets on the field.

 

at this point, hmm who is actually good. Is Diggs, or is he just a overpaid diva. 

[TroutDog]

Wow, you don’t jump on while at work and half the board is sniffing glue again...looks like I picked the wrong week to quit (Airplane! reference for the uninitiated). 😃 

[ILBillsfan]

20 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

So now on the bust list are:

 

Cody Ford 

Ed Oliver

Tremaind Edmunds 

of course Josh
 

 

I guess in a few Weeks it’ll be Tre white. May as well add Milano as he never gets on the field.

 

at this point, hmm who is actually good. Is Diggs, or is he just a overpaid diva. 

great sarcasm  i love it.........

 

some may not get it thought

 

[Helpmenow]

Bench a first rounder for a practice squad, dude, please!

[Buffalo716]

23 hours ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

If we could sign a NT and play a base 3-4 I wonder what it would look like. I would probably have Edmunds and Milano as my ILB’s with Hughes at ROLB and Dodson at LOLB. Get Epenesa back to 280 at RE and Oliver at LE. Obviously this would be for 2021 but I would love to try and copy what the Bucs are doing. The Bucs have guys blitzing from all over the place and confuse the hell out of the opposing offenses. I feel like Epenesa game is more power based, I would like to see him at 280lbs. I see him getting pushed around at 260

280 is even a small 3-4 end

 

Most 3-4 ends are 6'5 300 lb

 

You need massive length usually to play that technique

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

1 hour ago, ILBillsfan said:

great sarcasm  i love it.........

 

some may not get it thought

 

Apparently some folks called into local Green Bay Radio saying it’s time to bench Rodgers and see the new kid. 

 

Seriously, people are lunatics.  They do not remotely consider knowledge or perspective as Prerequisites for spouting off. 

Edited October 22, 2020 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[Nihilarian]

On 10/19/2020 at 8:23 PM, 2020 Our Year For Sure said:

Oliver was far more active/explosive than he was the last few weeks, he got his knee brace off this week and you can see hes getting healthier. Of course I know folks are mad right now

Oliver has 7 QB pressures.

 

Besides, Its my take that the Bills brain trust were far more worried about getting beaten deep by Mahomes to Hill so they dropped deep to defend the pass more...and got eaten by the run because of that scheme. and the inactive players. 

 

 

Where is Pat Williams when ya need him?

Edited October 22, 2020 by Nihilarian

[oldmanfan]

The guys up front on both sides of the ball need to just say to themselves they will not be physically embarrassed again.  

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

28 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

Oliver has 7 QB pressures.

 

Besides, Its my take that the Bills brain trust were far more worried about getting beaten deep by Mahomes to Hill so they dropped deep to defend the pass more...and got eaten by the run because of that scheme. and the inactive players. 

 

 

Where is Pat Williams when ya need him?

Ok what does any of that have to do with the post you quoted?

[Hampton Josh fan]

Even though Oliver has been pushed around by O-lineman,  don't you have to stick with such a high draft pick. He seemed to improve last year as the season moved along. The problem this year is there is no Phillips, with his 10 sacks, being a force in the middle. 

[Da webster guy]

Oliver is solid.  Jefferson and Zimmer both playing very well so far. 

 

Taylor is a monster dude and he's got a nice contract, time to earn it.  Harrison is having a slow recovery.

 

Hughes seems invisible but is top 10 in qb pressures this year.

 

People cant slam our Dline for getting gashed in the run game when we are playing a 6 man front vs Helaire.  

 

Watch the D get better over these next few weeks and all the negativity will go away like it always does.

 

Meanwhile lets get Darryl Johnson, A.J, Cox some good reps getting after the qb this week

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

On 10/19/2020 at 8:40 PM, Wayne Cubed said:

Nice take here 😂

None of the front four guys everyone is complaining about look to be in here

[Not at the table Karlos]

On 10/20/2020 at 7:13 AM, chef4131 said:

i certainly understand the comments about Zimmers poor play but he was a PS guy,.    How do you explain Oliver?  top 10 overall draft pick...if i am not mistaken Oliver was not on field for the last game deciding drive by KC   (Hurt??)

Oliver has been playing 1 tech taking on blockers because we have nobody else that can do it. At 285 in the nfl that’s not good, that’s on coaches and front office for not having the proper personnel. 

[Not at the table Karlos]

On 10/20/2020 at 8:55 PM, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

 Love the 34 but just dont see it here. We just need big DTs and Ends in the 275 range and we would be fine, kind of like the previous 3years. Blitzing would also be nice , this over conservative zone  sucks when you dont have the horses up front. We could use some Jim Schwartz aggressiveness right now, he literally transformed our defense from a joke to terrorists in one year with the same guys.

 

 

We’re one of the higher blitzing defenses this year going into the chefs game. Our players aren’t good at it.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

On 10/20/2020 at 9:17 PM, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

I would say the D-Line is going to be overhauled to some extent in 2021. I think the transition to a 3-4 would be a good idea but we would need a new DC for that. Dan Quinn is a guy I would keep a eye on. He is probably going back to being a DC and someone I would throw money at. Quinn was one of those guys who is a great DC but not so good as a HC. 

 

Wade Phillips is the best 34 guy in the biz

 

 

On 10/20/2020 at 9:16 PM, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Phillips was a penetrating beast but just terrible against the run other than that occasional TFL.

 

They tried to put him at 1T but he never played with much balance and he just couldn't do it.......he immediately gave up his shoulder and got washed whichever way the OG wanted him to go.

 

Liuget was more of a 280-290# guy and also pathetic against the run so your memory is off there.   

 

Star was a net loss against the run as well and whatever they lose in size with him they got back in the 340# Vernon Butler.

 

Their two best run defenders at DT last year were Oliver and Harrison Phillips.

 

They are both back but neither is at full strength.   

 

People forget that this team has been totally trampled in the run game at times in every season since McD has been here.   

 

Remember Philadelphia coming into Buffalo and throwing up 200 on the ground last year?  

 

And it was the inability to stop the Texans run game that sparked their comeback in the playoff game. 

 

At least the poor run defense yesterday had the excuse of being because of 6 man boxes all night.

 

Keep telling yourself that.

 

 

[BillsFan692]

Whats the verdict guys is this happening or is it crap post of the year?

[NoSaint]

On 10/21/2020 at 6:47 PM, Buffalo716 said:

280 is even a small 3-4 end

 

Most 3-4 ends are 6'5 300 lb

 

You need massive length usually to play that technique

We just have so many good LBs that you would plY your DL out of position to make it work

[transplantbillsfan]

I've seen the YouTube video of Zimmer getting blown up... but there's also this...

 

https://theathletic.com/2154752/2020/10/22/bills-chiefs-tremaine-edmunds?source=user-shared-article

Zimmer and the Bills were at their best when he lined up at one-technique. He played almost exclusively with Butler, outside of a few third-down passing plays when Mario Addison slid inside into a stand-up, three-technique position. On ten designed runs against the Butler-Zimmer pairing, the Bills allowed only 1.6 yards per carry for a total of 16 yards. Five of those ten attempts went for zero or negative yards and seven were for negative-4. Zimmer took 20 snaps at one-technique compared to nine at three-technique. When the Bills flipped Zimmer to three-technique and Butler to one-technique, the results were more in line with the rest of the game, with them allowing 27 yards on four carries (6.8 yards per carry). Zimmer held the point of attack as the one-technique and must have a spot in the lineup for as long as he keeps this up.

[GreggTX]

On 10/20/2020 at 7:38 PM, mattynh said:

Oliver wussed out big time on a screen in the first half.  

 

If Oliver is going to be Darius 2.0 then OK, but I have no way of knowing. The league as a whole lacks talent at DT except Washington.

[pretzel logic]

I think Oliver's leg whip he committed a few wks back hurt his explosion...however, for an 8th overall, pick.......His extremely underwhelming 

Play this year is journeyman stats...simply put, we he will never live up to the 8th overall pick as an undersized dt from a crappy program 

[GunnerBill]

15 minutes ago, Jaraxxus said:

If the undrafted plays better, yes, absolutely.

 

Yep. We just have to wait for that to happen now then.

[GunnerBill]

7 minutes ago, Jaraxxus said:

Not sure what games you've been watching, friend.

 

Well I haven't seen any where Zimmer outplayed Oliver. Oliver has been very up and down and I am disappointed with his performances overall this season. But he hasn't been awful or "invisible" as the accusation stands. And Zimmer has done okay for a practice squad guy but he got completely blown off the ball multiple times on Monday.

[Thurman#1]

On 10/20/2020 at 9:10 AM, bills6969 said:

In Zimmer’s short time on the field, he had 3 more tackles and 1 TFL. Oliver is a waste of space and frankly, is looking like a bust.

 

 

Stephen Colbert called. They want you on ZOOM.

On 10/22/2020 at 12:51 PM, Hampton Josh fan said:

Even though Oliver has been pushed around by O-lineman,  don't you have to stick with such a high draft pick. He seemed to improve last year as the season moved along. The problem this year is there is no Phillips, with his 10 sacks, being a force in the middle. 

 

 

Phillips was a force, but on very few plays. He was bad against the run and had very few pressures outside of his sacks, which is kind of weird, but true. I liked his personality, but he was more lucky than very good. And his record shows the same this year.

[NI Bills Fan]

Apologies if it's already been mentioned on this thread, but i'm not hearing much about the supposed 'upgrade' in DL coach in Eric Washington in relation to the poor performance of the DL this season.  I'm not close enough/knowledgable enough to accuratley compare him with his predecessor, but all the talk in the off season was this was a huge upgrade.

 

From what I read/hear on the DL there doesnt seem to be much scrutiny on Washington's impact and the blame seems to lie solely with Frazier/the players.

 

 

Edited October 24, 2020 by NI Bills Fan