Revisting 2019 Draft - D.K. Metcalf?

[RoyBatty is alive]

5 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

That's enough for me, I don't know about you.

 

I like being right.

 

 

Bravo...you got that working for you.

 

No it is "not enough for me".  I dont seek validation on anonymous sports chatrooms.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, RoyBatty is alive said:

Bravo...you got that working for you.

 

No it is "not enough for me".  I dont seek validation on anonymous sports chatrooms.

 

You do you, man.

 

Just watch the blood pressure. You seem angry.

 

[dorquemada]

1 minute ago, BornAgainBillsFan said:

C'mon, REALLY??? You're going to start second guessing the front office that's gotten us to 4-0, and what could be a deep playoff run??

 

"Trust the process", Mafioso!!

 

Love is blind, and there is no accounting for taste

[Charles Romes]

Let’s face it they blew it by not taking Metcalf as did all other teams save one.  Could have been the freak measurable QB teamed up with the freak measurable WR for a decade. 

[Rc2catch]

I’m still not sold DK is that good. Russel Wilson makes some average receivers look awfully good at times. This isn’t a dig on Metcalf or calling him average he’s made plays when called upon. But he’s targeted quite a bit there and surely would not have been targeted that heavily here. I don’t do a ton of Seattle watching but for fantasy purposes I’ve seen metcalf targeted last year like 100 times and catching 55 or somewhere around there.  Wilson has a great knack on those deep balls and Seattle also does a great job scheming guys open deep. Last year sure it was easy, Ford or Metcalf and we desperately needed one more weapon here. This year I’m not as sure. Ford seems to have locked down the guard spot and we’re not short on weapons. So I guess going back I would stick with what we got. Similar to other takes on players it’s the perfect landing spot for DK in Seattle. Outside maybe Green Bay I’m not sure he makes the same impact anywhere else as he wouldn’t see as many targets per game in a lot of places 

[John from Riverside]

For me 2 good players is almost always better then 1 good player

 

And we dont know on Ford yet.....he got moved to a new position and now we will have to see how he does......results so far are promising.

 

Metcalf is a nice player.....but somehow we have made that position a strength without drafting him

[somnus00]

I personally wasn't high on Metcalf. He looked like an incredible physical specimen. But he didn't look like a fluid route runner...no...he wasn't a fluid route runner. And he was terrible in contested catch situations in college.

 

Seems like his success is due to Seattle being smart and asking him to do what he's good at...running in a straight line and having Wilson, with a beautiful deep ball, toss it to him. Granted, I haven't watched a lot of Seahawks games this year, but every time I see a highlight, it follows this pattern.

 

I could definitely be wrong, but that's what I've seen personally. Yav, in my opinion, made a great player comparison. David Boston.

[Alphadawg7]

I was screaming to draft DK Metcalf.  I argued all off season here with people who didn’t know what they were talking about with DK and kept telling them he’s the best WR in draft and true number 1 WR talent.  I was fine taking Oliver though at 9, but I was pleading to trade up to get Metcalf when he slid to second round.  
 

However, Ford was a first round graded talent, expected go between 15 and 25 in most mocks.  The second I saw we traded up and saw him still on the board I knew it was for Ford.  And I was ok with that because protecting Allen was also highly important.

 

But then he continued to fall, and I was screaming to trade up for this gift. Ultimately we didn’t, and of course we landed Motor and Knox in the third.  Both of which I was also excited for. 
 

But I left that draft knowing we missed a chance to get a special and rare talent in DK while also still being quite pleased with our draft.  
 

Personally, I do think it worked out for the better.  I would LOVE to have DK on this roster, but NOT at the expense of Diggs.  As great as DK is, he’s not in the same class as Diggs who is excellent in every single phase of being a WR, including contested catches.  That’s not a knock on DK, that’s just how good Diggs is, who I believe is a top 5 WR and will be for years to come.  And I love Motor and Ford still has a chance to be very good at guard.  
 

Edited October 9, 2020 by Alphadawg7

[BillsfaninSB]

I’m sure 30 other team’s message board has had this conversation at one time or another. 

[dorquemada]

9 minutes ago, BillsfaninSB said:

I’m sure 30 other team’s message board has had this conversation at one time or another. 

 

Proving the ancient maxim "None of us is as dumb as all of us"

[DJB]

1 hour ago, Success said:

We wouldn't have traded for Diggs.

 

I love Diggs.

 

Everything has been perfect.

 

 

We could have had both. No idea if we would have made the deal or not. 

[Yav]

1 hour ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

 He could be, his story is hardly complete at this point and his current incredibly built frame might not last very long.    I always marveled at David Boston, thought he would b a real star for years.

 He could be, his story is hardly complete at this point and his current incredibly built frame might not last very long.    I always marveled at David Boston, thought he would b a real star for years.

David Boston was the product of PEDs as is Metcalf. Hence the comparison 

[ProcessAccepted]

All I know is that leading up to the draft I enjoyed making fun of DK's three cone drill times. I was dead wrong, he is a star in the making.

 

Who knows if he would have developed here especially with the youth and inexperience and type of offense we ran. Seattle was a good place for him to land. I think he'd thrive with the 2020 Bills but I still really like our receivers

[GunnerBill]

There is no way Metcalf has the same impact on our offense as Diggs. Metcalf is very good at what he does. But he is basically a guy who runs downfield routes. Diggs is a precision route runner who runs the whole route tree. 

 

I was against Metcalf at #9. I was not against him in round 2 and he was a potential skill set fit for Allen (although nowhere is he a better fit than Seattle). 

22 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

I was screaming to draft DK Metcalf.  I argued all off season here with people who didn’t know what they were talking about with DK and kept telling them he’s the best WR in draft and true number 1 WR talent.  I was fine taking Oliver though at 9, but I was pleading to trade up to get Metcalf when he slid to second round.  
 

However, Ford was a first round graded talent, expected go between 15 and 25 in most mocks.  The second I saw we traded up and saw him still on the board I knew it was for Ford.  And I was ok with that because protecting Allen was also highly important.

 

But then he continued to fall, and I was screaming to trade up for this gift. Ultimately we didn’t, and of course we landed Motor and Knox in the third.  Both of which I was also excited for. 
 

But I left that draft knowing we missed a chance to get a special and rare talent in DK while also still being quite pleased with our draft.  
 

Personally, I do think it worked out for the better.  I would LOVE to have DK on this roster, but NOT at the expense of Diggs.  As great as DK is, he’s not in the same class as Diggs who is excellent in every single phase of being a WR, including contested catches.  That’s not a knock on DK, that’s just how good Diggs is, who I believe is a top 5 WR and will be for years to come.  And I love Motor and Ford still has a chance to be very good at guard.  
 

 

I still think AJ Brown is the best receiver out of that class.

[NewEra]

39 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

You do you, man.

 

Just watch the blood pressure. You seem angry.

 

He doesn’t seem angry to me.  
 

Looks to me like you pulled the almost adult version of “u mad bro?”  

[RoyBatty is alive]

16 minutes ago, Yav said:

David Boston was the product of PEDs as is Metcalf. Hence the comparison 

 

Yeah the transformation of  his physique off the bell curve, like Brian Cushing.  Furthermore human bodys can only take so much strain which is what really ended Boston's career.    It will take a while but he will get busted if he has/is doing it, it took a decade plus to finally crack Lance Armstrong.

[JohnNord]

2 hours ago, Houston's #1 Bills Fan said:

So, watching what D.K. Metcalf has done so far this season and listening to Russell Wilson, I was looking over the 2019 draft and was thinking about our picks. Metcalf went #64 - last player chosen in Round 2. We took Ed Oliver Round 1 and Cody Ford Round 2. 

 

Would we change anything? If we took Metcalf, probably not make the trade for Diggs? Is Metcalf more "valuable" than Oliver or Ford? Thoughts??

I wanted Metcalf.  I didn’t think he would be the bust that some predicted.   It does make you wonder whether he turns out any differently with a raw Josh Allen as his QB, as opposed to Big Russ.  I think he still turns out to be ok 
 

 

[NewEra]

He’s what I thought he’d be once I saw he was drafted to join Russell Wilson.  The one thing that I was worried about hasn’t happened yet.  He’s remained healthy after only being able to play 2 games, 12 games then 7 games in his 3 year college career. In the last 5 years, he’s had foot surgery (that caused him to miss all but 2 games his freshman year), neck surgery (which ended his junior year after 7 games) and a minor knee surgery before his rookie season. Has there ever been a body building WR that had a good nfl career?  His agility testing was scary bad.  At that position, poor agility is a bad trait to have  While there were obvious reason TO draft him, there were also obvious reasons NOT to draft him.  I think we did the right thing by drafting an OL with a nasty streak to help protect their franchise qb for the foreseeable future.  Our WRs are amazing.  I’m happy.  
 

I’d love to see how amazing he’d be with the jets 

Edited October 9, 2020 by NewEra

[Ethan in Cleveland]

I'm fine with Ford either at guard or tackle.

I didn't like Oliver pick then and still have mixed feelings. DT is second hardest position to develop in NFL second only to QB. So it is way too early to know how Oliver will pan out long term. 

I'm normally a trade down guy but that draft they should have traded up for Josh Allen DE. Once he was gone they should have passed on Oliver and traded down and taken Fant in the mid teens. 

[NewEra]

7 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

I'm fine with Ford either at guard or tackle.

I didn't like Oliver pick then and still have mixed feelings. DT is second hardest position to develop in NFL second only to QB. So it is way too early to know how Oliver will pan out long term. 

I'm normally a trade down guy but that draft they should have traded up for Josh Allen DE. Once he was gone they should have passed on Oliver and traded down and taken Fant in the mid teens. 

Oliver is better than you think he is.  

[Not at the table Karlos]

1 hour ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

 He could be, his story is hardly complete at this point and his current incredibly built frame might not last very long.    I always marveled at David Boston, thought he would b a real star for years.

Just curious why you think his body won’t last long? His build is similar to TO and he had a decently long career. For some reason with DK it’s a negative that he takes very good care of himself. Prob started with that pic before the draft that made him look a lot bigger than he was because of the angle. 

[RoyBatty is alive]

2 minutes ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

Just curious why you think his body won’t last long? His build is similar to TO and he had a decently long career. For some reason with DK it’s a negative that he takes very good care of himself. Prob started with that pic before the draft that made him look a lot bigger than he was because of the angle. 

 

1)  his injury history, what 21 games his entire college career  2)   yes it is influenced by the picture and maybe the angle etc but TO to me was built, Metcalf to me looks like a weight lifter.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

33 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Oliver is better than you think he is.  

He has flashed some good/great plays.  Doesn'tt consistently hold up at point of attack and oddly he has not been a consistent disruptor in the backfield.  Now maybe that is because they are asking him not to penetrate but that seems unwise.  I don't expect him to be Donald nor even approach double digit sacks.  I would just like to see him push the pocket back more and make it uncomfortable for the QB in his face.  But as I said, it is way too soon to know what his ceiling will be.  If they had a 1 technique that consistently commanded a double team that would help.  

[NewEra]

8 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

He has flashed some good/great plays.  Doesn'tt consistently hold up at point of attack and oddly he has not been a consistent disruptor in the backfield.  Now maybe that is because they are asking him not to penetrate but that seems unwise.  I don't expect him to be Donald nor even approach double digit sacks.  I would just like to see him push the pocket back more and make it uncomfortable for the QB in his face.  But as I said, it is way too soon to know what his ceiling will be.  If they had a 1 technique that consistently commanded a double team that would help.  

He’s better than you think.  He was a great pick.  You didn’t like the pick when it happened and your doing exactly what all the Josh Allen haters were doing.  Sticking to your guns.  That’s fine, but you’re acting like that’s not what you’re doing, just like the Josh Allen haters.  Have you rewatched every game and focused on him every play or is this a blanket statement because you haven’t noticed him?  
 

 

 

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, Ethan in Portland said:

I'm fine with Ford either at guard or tackle.

I didn't like Oliver pick then and still have mixed feelings. DT is second hardest position to develop in NFL second only to QB. So it is way too early to know how Oliver will pan out long term. 

I'm normally a trade down guy but that draft they should have traded up for Josh Allen DE. Once he was gone they should have passed on Oliver and traded down and taken Fant in the mid teens. 

 

Good God I am glad you are not the GM. And I am a Noah Fant fan. 

[Hebert19]

3 hours ago, dorquemada said:

I think Ford will end up being an anchor on the O-line for a long time and everyone talking smack about him doesn't really understand how long it takes OL to develop.  Come on people how many times do we have to go through this?  if TBD was in charge of the draft we would only ever draft WRs, QBs, TEs, and RBs because obviously those are the only players a team needs to win.  This isn't Madden no matter how much our resident galaxy brain draft hindsighters want it to be

 

Did you stop perhaps to consider that it's not just DJ Metcalf, but perhaps has something to do with Russell Wilson helping him look good?

 

edit:  and I'll take Diggs over Metcalf all day long

This.  Russell Wilson is the best deep ball passer in the NFL.  Maybe one of the best ever.  DK catches bombs and outs....he doesn't have the best route tree in the world...so would he have been successful here.  Last year he would have been terrible with Josh's deep ball issues.  

 

 

[Beerball]

4 hours ago, Houston's #1 Bills Fan said:

So, watching what D.K. Metcalf has done so far this season and listening to Russell Wilson, I was looking over the 2019 draft and was thinking about our picks. Metcalf went #64 - last player chosen in Round 2. We took Ed Oliver Round 1 and Cody Ford Round 2. 

 

Would we change anything? If we took Metcalf, probably not make the trade for Diggs? Is Metcalf more "valuable" than Oliver or Ford? Thoughts??

 

[Augie]

4 hours ago, MJS said:

Let's check back in a few years.

 

I agree it’s too soon to say for sure. Also, let’s accept that every single draft is going to have things you would do differently in hindsight. Every year. Every team. Same with free agency. I’m happy with where we stand today so I won’t spend much mental energy or emotion wishing things had gone differently. I’m thrilled we got Diggs. Would that not have happened? 

 

It is what it is.......and I LIKE what it is! 

 

 

.

Edited October 9, 2020 by Augie

[Dat]

1 hour ago, Ethan in Portland said:

He has flashed some good/great plays.  Doesn'tt consistently hold up at point of attack and oddly he has not been a consistent disruptor in the backfield.  

Hard to follow and see all players, especially DT’s. These should make people feel better about Oliver.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 9, 2020 by Dat

[BananaB]

Metcalf is overrated. He’s an oversized deep threat. That’s what most people had him pegged as coming out of college. Seattle passes about 35 times a game and he only has 16 catches this year. 

[Mr. WEO]

Nobody can plausibly argue the Bills are better with  Ford/Diggs over Metcalf/Diggs....

[K-9]

54 minutes ago, Dat said:

Hard to follow and see all players, especially DT’s. These should make people feel better about Oliver.

 

 

 

 

The way he split that double team in the first video shows rare ability. He plays with such great leverage. 

[Coach Tuesday]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Good God I am glad you are not the GM. And I am a Noah Fant fan. 

Fant may be the worst/laziest blocker in the NFL.

[Rc2catch]

46 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

An ok starting guard vs a tremendous big play ability WR?

 

Not even close dude. The team is 4-0 and playing great... but we don’t need to sit here and pretend all of Beane’s top picks are going to be awesome. Ford was a meh pick in the 2nd  round. They are forcing him in the lineup because he was a 2nd round pick. If Ford went out for the year with injury there would be no drop off in play from the offensive line. 

I would have to disagree. Ford has held his own quite well and flashed some serious talent against some good pass rushers. They aren’t sitting better players because he’s a second round pick. Problem is people are only focused on his lapses. People keep beating the table over this metcalf pick like they are sooooooo smart. Dude has Russel Wilson throwing him the ball, David Moore looks like an all pro catching those bombs too. It’s even possible if metcalf went down Seattle wouldn’t miss a beat in the pass game and could be more efficient.  I don’t see people on here talking about Terry McLaurin.. Y’all didn’t scout him? Slayton? imagine the numbers those guys would put up with Wilson. They’re playing the #1 spot on terrible teams with little talent and still making plays.  Let’s stop pretending like he’s elite. He may get there but he ain’t there yet. 
 

[TigerJ]

Pre draft criticisms of DK Metcalf were similar to doubts about Gabriel Davis.  He didn't run a full route tree. all he did was go deep.  The differences were Metcalf was bigger, much faster and went to a bigger school, but it shows scouts have to do more study than learn what kind of route tree the guy ran in college.  I love What Gabe Davis has done, but Metcalf has the potential to be another Megatron.  Still, I don't spend too much time worrying about what might have been.

Edited October 10, 2020 by TigerJ

[NewEra]

49 minutes ago, Rc2catch said:

I would have to disagree. Ford has held his own quite well and flashed some serious talent against some good pass rushers. They aren’t sitting better players because he’s a second round pick. Problem is people are only focused on his lapses. People keep beating the table over this metcalf pick like they are sooooooo smart. Dude has Russel Wilson throwing him the ball, David Moore looks like an all pro catching those bombs too. It’s even possible if metcalf went down Seattle wouldn’t miss a beat in the pass game and could be more efficient.  I don’t see people on here talking about Terry McLaurin.. Y’all didn’t scout him? Slayton? imagine the numbers those guys would put up with Wilson. They’re playing the #1 spot on terrible teams with little talent and still making plays.  Let’s stop pretending like he’s elite. He may get there but he ain’t there yet. 
 

Good post.  

I’ve been one of Fords biggest detractors.  When he gets beat, he looks bad.  Those moments seem to be occurring less and less while he’s been holding his own in pass coverage more often than not.  Better fit at guard 💯.  Mclaurin is a much better WR and it’s not really even close. DK hit the QB lottery.  Decent WR.  Not the game breaker he’s being made out to be just because he’s the NFLs version of Bob Sapp.

[Augie]

4 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Good post.  

I’ve been one of Fords biggest detractors.  When he gets beat, he looks bad.  Those moments seem to be occurring less and less while he’s been holding his own in pass coverage more often than not.  Better fit at guard 💯.  Mclaurin is a much better WR and it’s not really even close. DK hit the QB lottery.  Decent WR.  Not the game breaker he’s being made out to be just because he’s the NFLs version of Bob Sapp.

 

Just like QB’s, it’s all about where you land. Having possibly the best QB in the game throwing to you probably helps a bit. 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

5 hours ago, NewEra said:

He’s better than you think.  He was a great pick.  You didn’t like the pick when it happened and your doing exactly what all the Josh Allen haters were doing.  Sticking to your guns.  That’s fine, but you’re acting like that’s not what you’re doing, just like the Josh Allen haters.  Have you rewatched every game and focused on him every play or is this a blanket statement because you haven’t noticed him?  
 

 

 

I watch line play not just the QB. 

Entirely not true. I didn't like the pick but I'm evaluating him with a clear mind.  No doubt he has made some plays but I think it may be you who has given him too much credit for those plays where his name is called and are not watching all the plays.

I've never called him a bust and have consistently said it takes a while for DTs to develop. I defended him when people were trying to say he wasn't as good as Donald. That is a ridiculous  comparison as Donald is playing a HOF level.

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Good God I am glad you are not the GM. And I am a Noah Fant fan. 

He's currently 4th in receptions and yards for all tight ends in the NFL with terrible QB play. He's and emerging star from a college that produces star tight ends. 

[NewEra]

8 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

I watch line play not just the QB. 

Entirely not true. I didn't like the pick but I'm evaluating him with a clear mind.  No doubt he has made some plays but I think it may be you who has given him too much credit for those plays where his name is called and are not watching all the plays.

I've never called him a bust and have consistently said it takes a while for DTs to develop. I defended him when people were trying to say he wasn't as good as Donald. That is a ridiculous  comparison as Donald is playing a HOF level.

He's currently 4th in receptions and yards for all tight ends in the NFL with terrible QB play. He's and emerging star from a college that produces star tight ends. 

I watch the line play too.  I watch Jerry Hughes on just about every defensive snap.  Guess who’s next to him on almost every play?  Ed is a beast and is better than you think.  
 

Brandon Beane wouldn’t draft a tight end #9 overall.  He’s too smart for that.  

[BADOLBILZ]

10 hours ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

This board just isnt the same without you spitting this sort of nonsensical fire. Im glad youre back!

 

 

Beane thought for sure that Ford was an immediate answer to the right tackle problem.

 

He's a guard.   Like I said at the time.

 

That's not nonsense.........it's exactly what happened.

 

In his defense.........he found Williams and Nsekhe in free agency who are actually good and not expensive right tackles when they are in there.

 

Really what we are talking about with decisions like passing on Metcalf for Ford is probably the difference between a franchise making a quantum leap to the top of the talent heap because of an abundance of shrewd moves versus simply joining the ranks of legit contenders.

 

They could have scored higher with foresight.........as opposed to making mistakes and then doing well to correct them with other moves or in hindsight.   

 

I will say one thing that is astonishing about McBeane though.............they are incredibly lucky.

 

Not "residue of design" kinda' lucky.........their fortune wrt to personnel options just presenting themselves is amazing.

 

If you ranked QB's by their current trade value...........McBeane had the opportunity to draft 4 of the 5 most valuable players in the entire league!

 

Mahomes, Watson, Jackson and I think we can now put Allen in there.

 

That's like some 5 man fantasy league kinda' draft opportunity.

 

Russ Wilson would be the other top 5 trade value guy IMO...........and Buddy Nix missed on him but that was about the only legit shot at a franchise altering player they got a look at in their 7 years in charge.   They had very little margin for error.   Beane has had a bunch.