Rico Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 2 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said: No thank you. Unless Zack Moss is serious hurt, there is no reason to sign Fournette. It is the exact opposite of what I'd expect Beane to do. The guy is completely overrated and living off his college career. No reason unless you want to keep him off the Pats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appoo Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 2 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said: No thank you. Unless Zack Moss is serious hurt, there is no reason to sign Fournette. It is the exact opposite of what I'd expect Beane to do. The guy is completely overrated and living off his college career. How is he overrated? Last season he was 4th in the NFL in Yards After Contact, while 43rd in Yards Before contact. Probably the one thing he's average at is breaking tackles. But he's a very good RB, that had to play with a terrible offense around him, and the stats show it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWATeam Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 Just now, appoo said: How is he overrated? Last season he was 4th in the NFL in Yards After Contact, while 43rd in Yards Before contact. Probably the one thing he's average at is breaking tackles. But he's a very good RB, that had to play with a terrible offense around him, and the stats show it. His YPC stinks. He's a yards accumulator purely on volume. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appoo Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 Another stat btw - Singletary only faced an 8 man box on 5% of his rushes. https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/rushing#percent-eight-defenders The lowest of any back in the NFL. His averages, his efficiency numbers, they are going to take a HUGE hit this upcoming season. For comparison sake, Fournette faced an 8 man box 30% of the time. Around 10th highest in the league. Consider that Singletary averaged 5 yards per carry, while Fournette averaged 4.3. Frank Gore faced an 8 man box 37% of the time, and averaged 3.6 YPC. If Fournette does become a Bill, you're looking at a 1500 yard back. He's not going to face nearly as many 8 man boxes with Diggs here, and Allen improving his deep ball, and our TEs getting better. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo03 Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 3 minutes ago, appoo said: Another stat btw - Singletary only faced an 8 man box on 5% of his rushes. https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/rushing#percent-eight-defenders The lowest of any back in the NFL. His averages, his efficiency numbers, they are going to take a HUGE hit this upcoming season. For comparison sake, Fournette faced an 8 man box 30% of the time. Around 10th highest in the league. Consider that Singletary averaged 5 yards per carry, while Fournette averaged 4.3. Frank Gore faced an 8 man box 37% of the time, and averaged 3.6 YPC. If Fournette does become a Bill, you're looking at a 1500 yard back. He's not going to face nearly as many 8 man boxes with Diggs here, and Allen improving his deep ball, and our TEs getting better. Exactly, Diggs alone takes another guy out of the box. It actually could put our offense over the top. You double Diggs, only have 7 or 8 in the box with one on one's against John Brown and Cole Beasley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appoo Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 (edited) 1 minute ago, Buffalo03 said: Exactly, Diggs alone takes another guy out of the box. It actually could put our offense over the top. You double Diggs, only have 7 or 8 in the box with one on one's against John Brown and Cole Beasley My thinking as well. Let Fournette have 50% of your first down carries, the majority of your < 5 situations with Moss spelling those, and Singletary continue to have down and distance carries along with 50% of the first down carries. That is a far more effective offense than letting Singletary and Moss have that split, considering Moss has spent the last 3 years playing against P12 defenses that aren't built to defend power offenses in general Edited September 2, 2020 by appoo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MR8 Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 2 minutes ago, appoo said: Another stat btw - Singletary only faced an 8 man box on 5% of his rushes. https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/rushing#percent-eight-defenders The lowest of any back in the NFL. His averages, his efficiency numbers, they are going to take a HUGE hit this upcoming season. For comparison sake, Fournette faced an 8 man box 30% of the time. Around 10th highest in the league. Consider that Singletary averaged 5 yards per carry, while Fournette averaged 4.3. Frank Gore faced an 8 man box 37% of the time, and averaged 3.6 YPC. If Fournette does become a Bill, you're looking at a 1500 yard back. He's not going to face nearly as many 8 man boxes with Diggs here, and Allen improving his deep ball, and our TEs getting better. He wouldn't be a 1500 yard back simply because he'd be splitting the rock 3 ways with Singletary and Moss. Don't get me wrong he'd be a great addition, but this is the kind of thing you'd have wanted to get done before the draft and camp. At this point they have a similar style guy in Moss who they invested a pick in to get. Singletary is "the guy" and every report is that he looks GREAT thus far in camp. I just don't see a world where they pay to sign Fournette and totally shift offensive plans to the new guy when they have Singletary who know the offense already and Moss who's been in camp and had his head int he playbook all off-season. If Fournette came in he'd be playing catch up from day 1, he likely wouldn't be up to speed for at least a few weeks, and by then I certainly hope Singletary already looks good out there, so why would they cut his carries back? I mean if he stinks we have bigger concerns. Fournette is best off going to a team with RB needs like Chicago where Montgomery just got hurt, and Tarik Cohen is the lead to get carries but stinks. They're desperate enough to change their offense at this point for Fournette IMO... we should not be. If Moss' injury that has kept him out of practice is serious then I wouldn't mind them having him in, because he's definitely better than anyone else behind Singletary, but that's a big if. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Joshin' Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 19 minutes ago, Rico said: No reason unless you want to keep him off the Pats. Not a way to run a team. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Back2Buff Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 10 minutes ago, appoo said: Another stat btw - Singletary only faced an 8 man box on 5% of his rushes. https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/rushing#percent-eight-defenders The lowest of any back in the NFL. His averages, his efficiency numbers, they are going to take a HUGE hit this upcoming season. For comparison sake, Fournette faced an 8 man box 30% of the time. Around 10th highest in the league. Consider that Singletary averaged 5 yards per carry, while Fournette averaged 4.3. Frank Gore faced an 8 man box 37% of the time, and averaged 3.6 YPC. If Fournette does become a Bill, you're looking at a 1500 yard back. He's not going to face nearly as many 8 man boxes with Diggs here, and Allen improving his deep ball, and our TEs getting better. Exactly. People already have Singletary pegged for the HOF. I really wanted this team to trade for Fournette before the draft. I just don't trust Singletary to be an every down RB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgewaycynic2013 Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said: Pats beat reporter Pats beat reporter...with a baseball bat. 6 minutes ago, Just Joshin' said: Not a way to run a team. Agreed. The proper was is get someone to break his legs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appoo Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 (edited) 12 minutes ago, MR8 said: He wouldn't be a 1500 yard back simply because he'd be splitting the rock 3 ways with Singletary and Moss. Don't get me wrong he'd be a great addition, but this is the kind of thing you'd have wanted to get done before the draft and camp. At this point they have a similar style guy in Moss who they invested a pick in to get. Singletary is "the guy" and every report is that he looks GREAT thus far in camp. I just don't see a world where they pay to sign Fournette and totally shift offensive plans to the new guy when they have Singletary who know the offense already and Moss who's been in camp and had his head int he playbook all off-season. If Fournette came in he'd be playing catch up from day 1, he likely wouldn't be up to speed for at least a few weeks, and by then I certainly hope Singletary already looks good out there, so why would they cut his carries back? I mean if he stinks we have bigger concerns. Fournette is best off going to a team with RB needs like Chicago where Montgomery just got hurt, and Tarik Cohen is the lead to get carries but stinks. They're desperate enough to change their offense at this point for Fournette IMO... we should not be. If Moss' injury that has kept him out of practice is serious then I wouldn't mind them having him in, because he's definitely better than anyone else behind Singletary, but that's a big if. IMO that's not a big transition for a RB, especially since nowa-adays almost all backs have familiarity with both Gap Blocking (which is what I think Daboll uses) and Zone Blocking (which I think the Jags used) You're probably right about not getting that high in yards because of the carries split Edited September 2, 2020 by appoo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsbackto81 Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 (edited) 31 minutes ago, appoo said: Another stat btw - Singletary only faced an 8 man box on 5% of his rushes. https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/rushing#percent-eight-defenders The lowest of any back in the NFL. His averages, his efficiency numbers, they are going to take a HUGE hit this upcoming season. For comparison sake, Fournette faced an 8 man box 30% of the time. Around 10th highest in the league. Consider that Singletary averaged 5 yards per carry, while Fournette averaged 4.3. Frank Gore faced an 8 man box 37% of the time, and averaged 3.6 YPC. If Fournette does become a Bill, you're looking at a 1500 yard back. He's not going to face nearly as many 8 man boxes with Diggs here, and Allen improving his deep ball, and our TEs getting better. I love stats that back up player situations. Fournette is and has always been a very good back. Jax very well would have won our game 2 seasons ago if Fournette didn't get ejected because he was abusing our D (18 car. 95 yds. 2 TDs)that game up until then. We won by 3 and needed a 10 point 4th quarter to do it. He is and has been a very good back. He's just not a process guy and he's a problem in the locker room. A one year deal wouldn't be the end of the world and it would give us the deepest RB stable in the league. Edited September 2, 2020 by billsbackto81 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 I can't see either the Cheaters or Bills being his ideal. The Cheaters are going to struggle and probably aren't offering much while the Bills will make him share carries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted September 2, 2020 Author Share Posted September 2, 2020 So to me, whether he said it or not, I’m not sure it means anything. I feel like when we hear the Bills have reached out about a player it never goes anywhere and when they acquire someone it is more out of the blue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artful Dodger Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, billsbackto81 said: I love stats that back up player situations. Fournette is and has always been a very good back. Jax very well would have won our game 2 seasons ago if Fournette didn't get ejected because he was abusing our D that game up until then. He is and has been a very good back. He's just not a process guy and he's a problem in the locker room. A one year deal wouldn't be the end of the world and it would give us the deepest RB stable in the league. The Bills look as if they've got two good backs already. Does any team in 2020 need the deepest RB stable in the league? Edited September 2, 2020 by Artful Dodger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appoo Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 9 minutes ago, Back2Buff said: Exactly. People already have Singletary pegged for the HOF. I really wanted this team to trade for Fournette before the draft. I just don't trust Singletary to be an every down RB. That and I think our OLine is a bit overrated...having someone who can get you yards after contact is a nice hole to fill in our offense 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IgotBILLStopay Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 So the two teams to call would have been at the bottom of my list - Pats have White and Michel and their rookie Harris had a stellar camp (like our Gabe Davis). Bills have Singletary and Moss. Pats also apparently also called the Saints on Kamara. Strange. That said, I can see it working for the Bills - Fournette is a power back who can get you the tough 3 yards while also being shifty and elusive to hit home runs (hat is why he went #4). I am not sure about all this locker room revolt against him though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appoo Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 8 minutes ago, Artful Dodger said: The Bills look as if they've got two good backs already. Does any team in 2020 need the deepest RB stable in the league? I think if the opportunity cost was higher, then we'd have an issue. I feel like the biggest weakness on our offense right now is RT, as I simply don't trust Cody Ford there, and lack of a big RZ Threat. It's basically just Dawson Knox. If getting Fournette meant we weren't getting one of those 2 pieces, then I'd say no. But right now, there doesn't seem to to be an appreciable opportunity cost to signing Fournette to a 1 year deal. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That's No Moon Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 3 minutes ago, Artful Dodger said: The Bills look as if they've got two good backs already. Does any team in 2020 need the deepest RB stable in the league? Given that you can lose a back pretty much whenever in 2020 I'd say yeah, this us the year of all years to have the deepest backfield in the league. He's better than Yeldon, has more than half a season of experience in the league, and that makes the Bills a better, more dangerous team. Add that he can be had on a 1 year, minimal risk, deal and it makes it a fairly simple conversation for me. Moss MIGHT be able to do what Fournette does in terms of running between the tackles and also catching the ball but Fournette is more of a proven quantity at this level in that regard. As for being a "culture" guy. We have bemoaned for seemingly a millenia the Patriots ability to bring in players that others didn't want, pay virtually nothing for them, and get excellent performances out of them without having locker room chaos. If you have a strong locker room culture you can do that. if McD and Beane really believe they have built something like that then you can have a LF in the room and it won't be a problem. The other benefit is that when you have a minimal investment in the player you can drop them if it's not working out either on the field or in the locker room. He wasn't OUR 1st round pick. We have no sunk cost in his development. He won't be making 4 million dollars with us. If he's an issue you cut bait. It's not that complex. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyBills Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 4 minutes ago, appoo said: That and I think our OLine is a bit overrated...having someone who can get you yards after contact is a nice hole to fill in our offense Think they're slightly above average with alot of depth . Alot also depends on how Ford progresses in year 2 buy the Left side , Dawkins/Spain/Morse is pretty good. The right side, between Feliciano,Ty,Ford,Winters, is not bad at all. All 4 are capable starters. Also, last year the line had 4 new starters , so I'm expecting a jump from the unit as a whole. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That's No Moon Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 2 minutes ago, IgotBILLStopay said: So the two teams to call would have been at the bottom of my list - Pats have White and Michel and their rookie Harris had a stellar camp (like our Gabe Davis). Bills have Singletary and Moss. Pats also apparently also called the Saints on Kamara. Strange. That said, I can see it working for the Bills - Fournette is a power back who can get you the tough 3 yards while also being shifty and elusive to hit home runs (hat is why he went #4). I am not sure about all this locker room revolt against him though. If you never call, you don't know what it costs. Calling about a player doesn't cost you a thing. Who knows, maybe the Saints really want to move Kamara because his knee isn't up to snuff from last year and they'd rather take what they can get right now based off his higher perceived value from last season before he comes out this season and looks rickety. Wouldn't be the first or the last RB to have that happen. Maybe Kamara isn't really on the market at all and it's about a contract thing but if you don't call you don't know. 8 minutes ago, appoo said: That and I think our OLine is a bit overrated...having someone who can get you yards after contact is a nice hole to fill in our offense I agree entirely. Hugely overrated by folks on this board. The line's inability to block in big moments was a massive problem in Houston. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjv001 Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 If the Bills sign Fournette he would be the most talented RB on the team. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsbackto81 Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 17 minutes ago, Artful Dodger said: The Bills look as if they've got two good backs already. Does any team in 2020 need the deepest RB stable in the league? Not really but we would have 3 backs that are viable starters on the NFL level. A bruiser, a "make you miss" type and one that does both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 I wouldn’t want him to take carries from Motor or Moss 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thenorthremembers Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 58 minutes ago, appoo said: How is he overrated? Last season he was 4th in the NFL in Yards After Contact, while 43rd in Yards Before contact. Probably the one thing he's average at is breaking tackles. But he's a very good RB, that had to play with a terrible offense around him, and the stats show it. The guy has never played a full season in his career, requires a ton of carries to get the production you're talking about. The only reason he had the season he had last year was because the Jaguars called his number close to 400 times. On top of being an average running back, he is a total malcontent. Sometimes, stats only tell you so much. I dont think his 4 yards a carry is worth having him in the locker room. If he was a guy that brought some veteran leadership to the room great, but at this point he is essentially a jerk who isnt any better than what you already have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBillsFan Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 (edited) Earlier when there was talks of a trade for Fournette I stated that there is no way I want this A-Hole in a Bills uniform. After all this, I think there would be some humbling and with the Bills atmosphere, I say we take him and see how it goes. He will have a chip on his shoulder but also fall in line to get playing time. He will want to be on the field. Bills leadership is strong. Edited September 2, 2020 by DieHardBillsFan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appoo Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 The last thing I'll say, specifically to culture...wouldn't be asking Fournette to be a leader, which means he can be an ahole all he wants, but he's just a dude who's getting paid 2-3M on a 1 year contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thenorthremembers Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 6 minutes ago, gjv001 said: If the Bills sign Fournette he would be the most talented RB on the team. Singletary averaged a yard a carry more than Fournette last year. Fournette may be talented, but he is not as good of a football player, and thats what actually matters here. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJC25 Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 3 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: I wouldn’t want him to take carries from Motor or Moss What happens if one gets injured and has to miss a couple games? He is a #4 overall pick he would automatically be the best RB in the room if we sign him 2 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said: Singletary averaged a yard a carry more than Fournette last year. Fournette may be talented, but he is not as good of a football player, and thats what actually matters here. Ok he had a bad oline does that not matter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorquemada Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 1 minute ago, TJC25 said: What happens if one gets injured and has to miss a couple games? He is a #4 overall pick he would automatically be the best RB in the room if we sign him Yeah this is kind of where I'm at. I watched him in college (Alabama fan - they shut him down, but they shut everyone down then) and he was an absolute bruiser who just got stronger as the games went on. No idea if he has that still, but there's no way that he was in an optimal situation in jax playing with bortles and for boney maroney. If he'd take a reasonable contract, i'd bring him in. Wouldnt it be nice to have him on the bench of the #1 guy went down? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 18 minutes ago, JerseyBills said: Think they're slightly above average with alot of depth . Alot also depends on how Ford progresses in year 2 buy the Left side , Dawkins/Spain/Morse is pretty good. The right side, between Feliciano,Ty,Ford,Winters, is not bad at all. All 4 are capable starters. Also, last year the line had 4 new starters , so I'm expecting a jump from the unit as a whole. I'm betting Williams will surprise a lot of people at RT, allowing Ford to play where he should be playing (at least right now): RG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 3 minutes ago, TJC25 said: What happens if one gets injured and has to miss a couple games? He is a #4 overall pick he would automatically be the best RB in the room if we sign him Ok he had a bad oline does that not matter? There is no way he’s the best RB in the room. I’ll take Motor over him any day and from accounts I’ve read Moss looks really good. They want to sign him fine. I just don’t want him taking carries away from the younger guys. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victory Formation Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 Could this be a Marshall Lynch situation? A talented back whom was held back by a crappy franchise? Perhaps Fournette comes here and thrives behind our OL and all that open space created by our WRs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Firebaugh Kid Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 8 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said: Singletary averaged a yard a carry more than Fournette last year. Fournette may be talented, but he is not as good of a football player, and thats what actually matters here. Motor is special. He will be a top 5 back in the NFL after this season. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thenorthremembers Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 5 minutes ago, TJC25 said: What happens if one gets injured and has to miss a couple games? He is a #4 overall pick he would automatically be the best RB in the room if we sign him Ok he had a bad oline does that not matter? Why do you think the Jaguars have a bad o-line? Four of their five starters were 2nd or 3rd round draft picks, and the 5th is one of the highest paid centers in the NFL. They were above average when it came to pass blocking, but they could run block. Agree to disagree I guess. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigdaddyinOrlando Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 3 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said: Why do you think the Jaguars have a bad o-line? Four of their five starters were 2nd or 3rd round draft picks, and the 5th is one of the highest paid centers in the NFL. They were above average when it came to pass blocking, but they could run block. Agree to disagree I guess. I would tend to agree with those Oline being bad. Even though they do have quality picks on their. The problem is they have pretty much zero player development that occurs there, especially since Marrone has been there. I tend to watch several games being in the area and the local scribes write about them as well. Just my opinion and observation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJC25 Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 Just now, thenorthremembers said: Why do you think the Jaguars have a bad o-line? Four of their five starters were 2nd or 3rd round draft picks, and the 5th is one of the highest paid centers in the NFL. They were above average when it came to pass blocking, but they could run block. Agree to disagree I guess Disagree just cause they were 2nd or 3rd round picks doesnt make them good does it? Is zach moss good? We dont know yet. Fournette on field healthy is a 1000 yard rusher a highly talented RB. For one year I'd take it all day. Cause what if he goes for 1200 and 10 TDs or the opposite these are the chances you have to take. moss and Singletary will be here next year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Wild Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 20 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said: Singletary averaged a yard a carry more than Fournette last year. Fournette may be talented, but he is not as good of a football player, and thats what actually matters here. If we are picking stats. Fournette also had over 100 more carries. If you also wanna count other things Fournette also had over 50 more catches Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strive_for_five_guy Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 Interesting looking back at some of the articles in April on whether the Bills should or shouldn’t have traded for Fournette. Here was an article against the idea, which mentioned the potential of landing Zack Moss in the 3rd round. And here we are today with the potential to still land Fournette (if we want) at a better price, already having landed Moss as well. One more example of why Beane is a wizard. https://www.google.com/amp/s/buffalowdown.com/2020/04/19/buffalo-bills-should-avoid-temptation-trading-for-leonard-fournette/amp/ 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Back2Buff Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 (edited) 18 minutes ago, The Firebaugh Kid said: Motor is special. He will be a top 5 back in the NFL after this season. Is it the oil hands or concrete feet that are going to make him special? Edited September 2, 2020 by Back2Buff 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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