Charges against Ed Oliver dismissed

[Augie]

4 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

He was stopped for a report about erratic driving which is a good thing but in most states the officer needs to witness it but it is reason according to most jurisdictions to stop someone to ensure it is not drinking, someone on medication, etc.  In this case he had an open can which led to sobriety test.

 

Nothing indicates the officers were unprofessional and nothing Ed Oliver said indicates so.  Lots of commentators added flak which matched their viewpoints.

I am glad everything worked out and Oliver just got a warning "be careful" for there are jurisdictions which would have taken this as chance of revenue enhancement (DC, SC).

 

@Hapless Bills Fan, I think @MAJBobby posted that was a no-go zone for military personnel just to avoid problems. Also, someone for California reported they would get pulled over for impersonating “We’re The Millers”, and obviously anyone from California travels with weed. (They did get pulled over for California plates, reportedly.) 

[Punching Bag]

Just now, Augie said:

 

@Hapless Bills Fan, I think @MAJBobby posted that was a no-go zone for military personnel just to avoid problems. Also, someone for California reported they would get pulled over for impersonating “We’re The Millers”, and obviously anyone from California travels with weed. (They did get pulled over for California plates, reportedly.) 

 

Well it is Texass.

 

I was there once for a class and was stopped twice due to reported issue with vehicle.  I told them it was a rental and I just got it on Saturday.  Officer saw rental agreement and said he'd get it scratched off list.  Got stopped again and I gave officer details including other officer's name.  He made a comment about him never doing the job properly and left. Fortunately I left state next day.

[Augie]

2 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

Well it is Texass.

 

There is a speed trap section of Hwy 301 (alternative to I-4) in Florida that made 60 Minutes. This is a stretch where you go BELOW the speed limit. Some guy got so pissed he paid for multiple billboards on both sides of the road heading into and out of that stretch of sketchy territory warning people. He saved a lot of people a lot of tickets and fines, costing them some revenue. 

 

In drivers ed as a kid they told us never go more than 10 mph over, you’ll never get a ticket from us. I’ve been driving for 4+ decades and it’s worked for me. (Though my wife got a ticket 10 years ago going 6 over on the highway in SC.) 

[MJS]

3 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

There is a speed trap section of Hwy 301 (alternative to I-4) in Florida that made 60 Minutes. This is a stretch where you go BELOW the speed limit. Some guy got so pissed he paid for multiple billboards on both sides of the road heading into and out of that stretch of sketchy territory warning people. He saved a lot of people a lot of tickets and fines, costing them some revenue. 

 

In drivers ed as a kid they told us never go more than 10 mph over, you’ll never get a ticket from us. I’ve been driving for 4+ decades and it’s worked for me. (Though my wife got a ticket 10 years ago going 6 over on the highway in SC.) 

I've always heard that 5 over is ok. Never heard 10 over is ok. But I bet it's all up to the discretion of the particular police officer and how much he has left on his quota for stops.

[Punching Bag]

Just now, Augie said:

 

There is a speed trap section of Hwy 301 (alternative to I-4) in Florida that made 60 Minutes. This is a stretch where you go BELOW the speed limit. Some guy got so pissed he paid for multiple billboards on both sides of the road heading into and out of that stretch of sketchy territory warning people. He saved a lot of people a lot of tickets and fines, costing them some revenue. 

 

In drivers ed as a kid they told us never go more than 10 mph over, you’ll never get a ticket from us. I’ve been driving for 4+ decades and it’s worked for me. (Though my wife got a ticket 10 years ago going 6 over on the highway in SC.) 

 

My wife actually got stopped for going to slow.  We were travelling on a holiday and went out of town (Manassas, VA) avoiding I95.

After we went out of town we noticed a bit of people riding other cars bumpers and my wife saw a cop car behind.  She was being very careful to stay at speed limit and a mile or two later cop got out of line, turned on siren and pulled up to our car and indicated to stop.  He came to car and asked why we were going 15 miles under speed limit and my wife said he was going it.  He said the speed limit was 40 not 25 and three miles back there was a speed limit change.  I told him I saw a speed limit sign near where he said one was and it was blocked by branch and could not read it just determine it was a speed limit sign.  He got on radio and another cop said he went by it and yes it was blocked partially due to a broken branch.  We got an apology and left.  His stopping actually cost more time to drivers than my wife "going slow" and there was another speed limit sign a mile later raising it again.

4 minutes ago, MJS said:

I've always heard that 5 over is ok. Never heard 10 over is ok. But I bet it's all up to the discretion of the particular police officer and how much he has left on his quota for stops.

 

And in many jurisdictions whether you have local or out of plate plates.  Multiple times I have seen cops single out of state drivers when in state were driving faster.

[Augie]

6 minutes ago, MJS said:

I've always heard that 5 over is ok. Never heard 10 over is ok. But I bet it's all up to the discretion of the particular police officer and how much he has left on his quota for stops.

 

 

 

I just go about 7-9 mph over, never a problem.

 

Another thing I’ve noticed is my Toyotas seem to overstate my speed by 2-3 mph according to those digital speed checkers on the side of the road, Waze and a GPS I used to use. That means if I think I’m going 9 mph over, it’s only 6-8 over. My wife’s Lexus seems to have about the same spread, though I don’t check that as often. 

[US Egg]

Every state actively support and promote suspicious driving reporting by civilians for good reason.

 

.....sounds like some of the Ed defenders want to reconsider such a notion.

 

 

 

 

Edited July 23, 2020 by I am the egg man

[KD in CA]

49 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

@Hapless Bills Fan, I think @MAJBobby posted that was a no-go zone for military personnel just to avoid problems. Also, someone for California reported they would get pulled over for impersonating “We’re The Millers”, and obviously anyone from California travels with weed. (They did get pulled over for California plates, reportedly.) 

Oh please, weed is just for the Mexicans and kids.  We grownup Californians travel with edibles.

[JOE IN HAMPTON ROADS]

7 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

On traffic arrests like this they wait until court is over before a suspension is issued. They sometimes will still suspend players if the arrest was a bad look for the league even if charges are dropped. In this case I can't see Oliver receiving any type of suspension.

LOL can you imagine if in 2020 Goodell suspended a black man who did nothing wrong because being arrested for doing nothing wrong is "a bad look for the league"

 

no, this is 100% over

[Hapless Bills Fan]

7 hours ago, billsbackto81 said:

Looks like the only thing he was guilty of is being a crappy driver and being profiled. The kid was clean and test results prove that. If being a bad driver was criminal 50% of the country and 95% of Florida would be behind bars.

 

that low? ?

 

44 minutes ago, I am the egg man said:

Every state actively support and promote suspicious driving reporting by civilians for good reason.

 

.....sounds like some of the Ed defenders want to reconsider such a notion.

 

Suspicious driving reporting is one thing.  If someone is reported for suspicious driving and police investigate and find a problem, that's one thing.

The claim here is that Oliver, apparently not having been observed by police to be driving illegally (as he was not charged), should still have gotten a ticket.

 

If someone reports you for suspicious driving, no drugs or alcohol are found in your system, and police do not observe you driving suspiciously, do you believe you should get a ticket based upon a citizen report? 

 

Yes or no will suffice.

[JohnNord]

8 hours ago, FluffHead said:

 

Ummmmmmm why was Eddie charged again?

[US Egg]

55 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

that low? ?

 

 

Suspicious driving reporting is one thing.  If someone is reported for suspicious driving and police investigate and find a problem, that's one thing.

The claim here is that Oliver, apparently not having been observed by police to be driving illegally (as he was not charged), should still have gotten a ticket.

 

If someone reports you for suspicious driving, no drugs or alcohol are found in your system, and police do not observe you driving suspiciously, do you believe you should get a ticket based upon a citizen report? 

 

Yes or no will suffice.

You can't tell if drugs are in one's system simply by a roadside stop.....well maybe you can.

 

Should I expect to be more moderated in here now ?

 

A yes or no be suffice.

Edited July 23, 2020 by I am the egg man

[Doc]

3 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

Lol other than doc? Nah. Look at this afternoon’s work product.  It’s Georgia Tech vs Cumberland 1916

 

It looks more like me vs you 2016 and 2017 off-seasons.

[major]

Dismissed makes me think of better times?...

[eball]

2 hours ago, GaryPinC said:

As are you.  He provided a sound reference pages ago on a California case that was upheld by the US Supreme Court.  Basically, as long as the 911 call seems legit and police ID the vehicle, they are allowed to stop it immediately and conduct a brief investigation.  Doesn't say they can simply write a ticket based on the call, but they can pull it over at their discretion.  I imagine if they want to get a reckless op or speeding, I'm betting they're going to wait until they witness it first.

 

But simply put, he's right you're wrong.  Sorry.

Did you read the Navarette opinion? The 911 caller in that case described conduct of having been “run off the road” by the subject vehicle, which was conduct deemed specifically relevant to driving while intoxicated. Navarette was stopped under suspicion of DWI, not a traffic infraction. 

 

It’s a matter of opinion whether the 911 call in Ed’s case gave reasonable suspicion to suspect Ed of a crime (DWI) vs a traffic infraction (speeding). I think that probably makes a difference in assessing the “totality of the circumstances.”

 

I concede that stops may occur under the right circumstances; I wonder whether this case met such circumstances. 

[CowgirlsFan]

This native Texan is glad to see there is a DA with some common sense 

[Doc]

19 minutes ago, eball said:

Did you read the Navarette opinion? The 911 caller in that case described conduct of having been “run off the road” by the subject vehicle, which was conduct deemed specifically relevant to driving while intoxicated. Navarette was stopped under suspicion of DWI, not a traffic infraction. 

 

It’s a matter of opinion whether the 911 call in Ed’s case gave reasonable suspicion to suspect Ed of a crime (DWI) vs a traffic infraction (speeding). I think that probably makes a difference in assessing the “totality of the circumstances.”

 

I concede that stops may occur under the right circumstances; I wonder whether this case met such circumstances. 

 

Would be interesting to know if the 911 called mentioned Oliver's skin color.  If she did, we could then start calling her Kia Karen, or something like that.

 

15 minutes ago, CowgirlsFan said:

This native Texan is glad to see there is a DA with some common sense 

 

It's not a matter of common sense.  They literally have nothing to charge him with...except speeding or reckless driving, which they never did, probably because the police didn't witness it themselves.  Again a drunk driver will still drive like a drunk even if the cops are following him.

[2ForMacAdoo]

8 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

I thought so, and that is exactly the point.  A majority of white people in the country have a problem with race.  Only a small minority is outwardly racist. 

 

Look, all I can tell you is that I've discovered, as have many other white people discovered lately, that the way you're thinking about this is the way I thought about it until a few weeks ago.  Then the light went on.  So I understand what you think you know, and I understand why you vehemently disagree when I tell you that you're missing the point.  All I'm telling you is that the reality that is so obvious to you, the reality you're so sure you're right about, actually isn't the reality at all.  I believed in your reality until a few weeks ago.  

 

Let me give you an example.  I don't know where you live.  I live in New England.  Cape Cod is a famous, very popular vacation area.  It's an hour or so from Boston.  Lots of beaches, bars, restaurants, hotels.  Jam packed with people every summer, including this summer.  There are practically no black vacationers on Cape Cod.  There are black people cleaning hotel rooms, cutting lawns, and washing dishes, but there are pretty much no black vacationers.  Why not?  There are no laws keeping blacks out.  It's not cheap to go there, but there are plenty of well-paid black people in New England who could comfortably afford a nice Cape Cod vacation.  There's no KKK. 

 

Most of the white people who are on the Cape say what you say - that it's a tiny, tiny, tiny minority of the people who cause the problem.  Well, if that's true, and there essentially none of those people in New England, why are there no blacks on Cape Cod?   The answer is that they don't feel welcome.  Why don't they feel welcome?  Because the white people on Cape Cod don't make them feel welcome, that's why.  

 

Now multiply that across the country.   There are millions and millions of people who combine, most of them completely unwittingly, to make blacks feel unwelcome.  We all do it.  We don't do it to Italians, we do it less to Asians than to blacks.  We just do it.  

 

It's a problem pretty much all of us have, including me.   I've gone to Cape Cod for years, and it was only this summer that I noticed for the first time that there are no black people there.  It's like there is an invisible "No Blacks" sign before you cross the bridge.  

Shaw, this is so right on; you nailed it.  Orchard Park born and raised, I've lived in Patriots nation the last 20 years. Have been going to a sports bar in Boston called the Harp (across from TD Garden) forever, a sports bar that converts into a WNY island in the heart of Boston on Sunday afternoons during football season. Well, until this upcoming season if there is one...

 

It wasn't until the George Floyd assassination (and there had been plenty of police brutality episodes prior to this going back to Rodney King in 1991 and then a whole series of visible ones in the cell phone era beginning with Michael Brown in 2014) that I saw the light. Started asking myself questions like: Why in this sports bar where 400+ rabid Bills fans are crammed packed into the upstairs and downstairs sections, why have I never seen a single African-American here in all the years I've been coming here? 

 

Shaw, thanks for taking the time to write that thoughtful piece with a real understanding of social injustice issues and a recognition of the unconscious bias that we all possess, as uncomfortable as it may be to acknowledge.

[GaryPinC]

6 hours ago, eball said:

Did you read the Navarette opinion? The 911 caller in that case described conduct of having been “run off the road” by the subject vehicle, which was conduct deemed specifically relevant to driving while intoxicated. Navarette was stopped under suspicion of DWI, not a traffic infraction. 

 

It’s a matter of opinion whether the 911 call in Ed’s case gave reasonable suspicion to suspect Ed of a crime (DWI) vs a traffic infraction (speeding). I think that probably makes a difference in assessing the “totality of the circumstances.”

 

I concede that stops may occur under the right circumstances; I wonder whether this case met such circumstances. 

I did, and my take from it was that provided there was no reason to doubt the legitimacy of the 911 call, the officer is allowed to simply pull over the car for a basic investigation.

If I'm hearing your argument correctly, your concerns seem to be that the officer would issue a moving violation citation based solely off the 911 call?  (speeding, reckless op)

That doesn't appear to be the case, though Navarette vs Cali did not deal specifically with this issue.

But getting back to EO, the police were allowed to simply pull him over to investigate the possibility of DUI/DWI based on the 911 call.  Perhaps they did not observe or bother to observe him driving unsafely, or perhaps they chose not to cite him for unsafe driving behavior they did observe.

 

I have called in a driver one time because they were driving so erratically it appeared they had to be DUI.  I imagine when any driver 911 calls in another driver a high majority of the time DUI is involved, and perhaps police stop the car regardless of their observations.  If they don't and the car is later involved in a DUI accident, that would seem unethical.

[Don Otreply]

15 hours ago, Uncle Joe said:

Chill Ed. You handled it well and won.
Now go have a great season.

He gets to point out the obviousness of his experience, he was there we weren’t. 

[DaaBills]

Ed oliver no dwi = more compensatory picks for the patriots

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

8 minutes ago, DaaBills said:

Ed oliver no dwi = more compensatory picks for the patriots

Boo!  Hiss!  ?
(Someone check my basement for pods.)

[Don Otreply]

14 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

I thought so, and that is exactly the point.  A majority of white people in the country have a problem with race.  Only a small minority is outwardly racist. 

 

Look, all I can tell you is that I've discovered, as have many other white people discovered lately, that the way you're thinking about this is the way I thought about it until a few weeks ago.  Then the light went on.  So I understand what you think you know, and I understand why you vehemently disagree when I tell you that you're missing the point.  All I'm telling you is that the reality that is so obvious to you, the reality you're so sure you're right about, actually isn't the reality at all.  I believed in your reality until a few weeks ago.  

 

Let me give you an example.  I don't know where you live.  I live in New England.  Cape Cod is a famous, very popular vacation area.  It's an hour or so from Boston.  Lots of beaches, bars, restaurants, hotels.  Jam packed with people every summer, including this summer.  There are practically no black vacationers on Cape Cod.  There are black people cleaning hotel rooms, cutting lawns, and washing dishes, but there are pretty much no black vacationers.  Why not?  There are no laws keeping blacks out.  It's not cheap to go there, but there are plenty of well-paid black people in New England who could comfortably afford a nice Cape Cod vacation.  There's no KKK. 

 

Most of the white people who are on the Cape say what you say - that it's a tiny, tiny, tiny minority of the people who cause the problem.  Well, if that's true, and there essentially none of those people in New England, why are there no blacks on Cape Cod?   The answer is that they don't feel welcome.  Why don't they feel welcome?  Because the white people on Cape Cod don't make them feel welcome, that's why.  

 

Now multiply that across the country.   There are millions and millions of people who combine, most of them completely unwittingly, to make blacks feel unwelcome.  We all do it.  We don't do it to Italians, we do it less to Asians than to blacks.  We just do it.  

 

It's a problem pretty much all of us have, including me.   I've gone to Cape Cod for years, and it was only this summer that I noticed for the first time that there are no black people there.  It's like there is an invisible "No Blacks" sign before you cross the bridge.  

So very well stated Shaw66, blacks in America have been abused by the majority of white Americans in all aspects of there lives every day for hundreds of years. Just taking part in how white society has been set up makes us all culpable of continuing generations of oppression, it is insidious and very many of we white people don’t see it because that was how we were raised and it then appears normal and accepted behavior.  That behavior must change. By not speaking out and doing the right things we are condoning racism. Start by treating others as you would want to be treated in every aspect of your life. 
 

 

 

[sherpa]

An example of this happened to a very good friend of mine just last week.

He is a black guy, mid 50's, lives in Northern Virginia. His is a very close family. A relative in Minnesota became ill, and he and another relative rendezvoused in Ohio and rented a car to drive to MN to visit.

Crossing Wisconsin, a cop pulls him over for no apparent reason. He asks what he was being pulled over for, and the cop tells him "You were following another vehicle too close in a work zone." Knowing this was BS, he figures nothing will come of it.

The cop asks if he will allow the car to be searched, and he says "Sure."

The cop asks him and the passenger to get out, which they do, and he's a bit worried when the cop looks at him and says, "Now what will I find in here, drugs?"

He says no, he has never even had a drop of alcohol in his entire life. He's a marathon runner, vice principal of a high school in Loudin County VA. The cop suggests they are going to MN to participate in some protest. He explains they're doing nothing of the sort. 

Anyway, they are delayed for an hour. He videos the "search" of the car. Eventually two other WI. state troupers show up, and he can tell by their body language that they know this "stop" is complete BS.

After the hour of accusation and search, the cop tells them their will be no ticket and lets them go.

Complete nonsense.

[YoloinOhio]

14 hours ago, BUFFALOBART said:

He presumably owns a cell phone. Is it so hard to punch in Uber???

Is your axe sharp enough yet???

Why would he have needed to call Uber if he hadn’t been drinking 

[BornAgainBillsFan]

This is terrific! No suspension looming for Ed. Our QB is improving every day. All areas of our team are better and deeper than they've been in years. Our front office and coaching staff are among the best in the league.

 

Now I'm sure there'll be no season!!

[Mr. WEO]

8 hours ago, eball said:

Did you read the Navarette opinion? The 911 caller in that case described conduct of having been “run off the road” by the subject vehicle, which was conduct deemed specifically relevant to driving while intoxicated. Navarette was stopped under suspicion of DWI, not a traffic infraction. 

 

It’s a matter of opinion whether the 911 call in Ed’s case gave reasonable suspicion to suspect Ed of a crime (DWI) vs a traffic infraction (speeding). I think that probably makes a difference in assessing the “totality of the circumstances.”

 

I concede that stops may occur under the right circumstances; I wonder whether this case met such circumstances. 

 

 

Did you?  It confirmed that the specific info provided in the 9-1-1 call was sufficient cause to make a stop for suspected DWI (there is no stop for "reported/suspected" speeding). 

 

Your opinion on whether it was reasonable is meaningless.  The opinions of the stopping officers and the USSC only matter.  Did Ed's lawyer challenge the stop? No.

 

You need to move off this molehill you are dying on.

8 hours ago, Doc said:

 

It looks more like me vs you 2016 and 2017 off-seasons.

 

Hey did they ever catch the son of your boy's ex---the women who was beat up in the home?  He was the "only" logical suspect, right?  When do they get him for beating up his mom to frame "Shady"?  Cold case?  Maybe the Palm Beach DA can get in on that one as a consultant!

 

lol

[Johnnycage46]

8 hours ago, 2ForMacAdoo said:

Shaw, this is so right on; you nailed it.  Orchard Park born and raised, I've lived in Patriots nation the last 20 years. Have been going to a sports bar in Boston called the Harp (across from TD Garden) forever, a sports bar that converts into a WNY island in the heart of Boston on Sunday afternoons during football season. Well, until this upcoming season if there is one...

 

It wasn't until the George Floyd assassination (and there had been plenty of police brutality episodes prior to this going back to Rodney King in 1991 and then a whole series of visible ones in the cell phone era beginning with Michael Brown in 2014) that I saw the light. Started asking myself questions like: Why in this sports bar where 400+ rabid Bills fans are crammed packed into the upstairs and downstairs sections, why have I never seen a single African-American here in all the years I've been coming here? 

 

Shaw, thanks for taking the time to write that thoughtful piece with a real understanding of social injustice issues and a recognition of the unconscious bias that we all possess, as uncomfortable as it may be to acknowledge.

 

Your overall point is well taken and understood, but just wanted to point out the Michael Brown case was ruled a justified shooting in self defense by the US DOJ based on all of the forensic evidence.  While it was an unfortunate incident...it is important to delineate those instances vs. the outright murder of George Floyd and the brutal and unnecessary beating of Rodney King. 

[Bangarang]

Never doubted Ed for a second. 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Yay, he's a good person again!!!

[2ForMacAdoo]

2 hours ago, BornAgainBillsFan said:

This is terrific! No suspension looming for Ed. Our QB is improving every day. All areas of our team are better and deeper than they've been in years. Our front office and coaching staff are among the best in the league.

 

Now I'm sure there'll be no season!!

Haha, right on fellow long-suffering Bills brethren!  You did neglect to mention however another positive: no Tom Brady in the division!

[HappyDays]

18 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

My point is it is a very distinct minority that are vocally racist, across all ethnicities

 

And they always scream the loudest

 

If you're talking about people being vocally racist, I agree. That is a very small minority.

 

But how many times has something like this happened to you (watch the whole video):

 

 

I can say nothing like that has ever happened to me. I was pulled over many times in my early 20s because admittedly I was a habitual speeder and I rolled through stop signs. But I never had an encounter like that.

 

There are plenty of other videos out there with similar encounters. I would encourage you to watch them. This is a normal experience for a certain demographic in this country and I was blind to it until a few years ago. It is something I never thought about, like the first time I learned that cat calling was a real thing. Privilege is not always about the experiences you have, it's also about the experiences you avoid.

 

By the way I don't know if the cop in the above video is an outright racist but I am sure he has biases like everyone else and I don't doubt that those biases influenced his decision to pull this man over.

[2ForMacAdoo]

12 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

If you're talking about people being vocally racist, I agree. That is a very small minority.

 

But how many times has something like this happened to you (watch the whole video):

 

 

I can say nothing like that has ever happened to me. I was pulled over many times in my early 20s because admittedly I was a habitual speeder and I rolled through stop signs. But I never had an encounter like that.

 

There are plenty of other videos out there with similar encounters. I would encourage you to watch them. This is a normal experience for a certain demographic in this country and I was blind to it until a few years ago. It is something I never thought about, like the first time I learned that cat calling was a real thing. Privilege is not always about the experiences you have, it's also about the experiences you avoid.

 

By the way I don't know if the cop in the above video is an outright racist but I am sure he has biases like everyone else and I don't doubt that those biases influenced his decision to pull this man over.

Outrageous.

[K-9]

6 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

If you're talking about people being vocally racist, I agree. That is a very small minority.

 

But how many times has something like this happened to you (watch the whole video):

 

 

I can say nothing like that has ever happened to me. I was pulled over many times in my early 20s because admittedly I was a habitual speeder and I rolled through stop signs. But I never had an encounter like that.

 

There are plenty of other videos out there with similar encounters. I would encourage you to watch them. This is a normal experience for a certain demographic in this country and I was blind to it until a few years ago. It is something I never thought about, like the first time I learned that cat calling was a real thing. Privilege is not always about the experiences you have, it's also about the experiences you avoid.

 

By the way I don't know if the cop in the above video is an outright racist but I am sure he has biases like everyone else and I don't doubt that those biases influenced his decision to pull this man over.

Why some people don’t understand this simple concept is beyond me. Lack of a disadvantage is an inherent advantage, which is a privilege. I guess people are too wrapped up in their “nobody ever gave me anything, I worked my ass off for everything I have” defensiveness to understand what a lack of an advantage means for other people on a day to day basis. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

If you're talking about people being vocally racist, I agree. That is a very small minority.

 

But how many times has something like this happened to you (watch the whole video):

 

 

I can say nothing like that has ever happened to me. I was pulled over many times in my early 20s because admittedly I was a habitual speeder and I rolled through stop signs. But I never had an encounter like that.

 

There are plenty of other videos out there with similar encounters. I would encourage you to watch them. This is a normal experience for a certain demographic in this country and I was blind to it until a few years ago. It is something I never thought about, like the first time I learned that cat calling was a real thing. Privilege is not always about the experiences you have, it's also about the experiences you avoid.

 

By the way I don't know if the cop in the above video is an outright racist but I am sure he has biases like everyone else and I don't doubt that those biases influenced his decision to pull this man over.

 

I'll bring up a little bit of namedropping here with a football connection to make a point.

 

My kid attended the same high school as the children of all-pro HOF left tackle Orlando Pace, and was friends with the eldest boy and the son of a retired NBA basketball player.  They weren't "besties" but they were in the same home room (those serve a discussion/connection function at the school with debate on social topics) and they would get together and pal around, see movies and go to Steak n Shake (local fast food joint). 

 

These folks are wealthy to the "SMH" point.  Orlando's wealth has only multiplied since he retired.  So one of my "wake up!" moments was talking to his wife at a school event (very very smart lady - 6 Sigma Black Belt Industrial Engineer, level-headed and realistic as all get out) and realizing she really didn't want her son driving around with my kid late at night.  Not because she thought my kid would get them into any kind of trouble.  My kid had a boyfriend she was devoted to and is squeaky clean. They were "just friends" and she knew it.  Simply because she worried that a racist cop (dunno how preponderant, but exist around here for reals) would pull them over, Bad Things could happen, and a white girl with them would make it worse. 

 

Then I realized that the Paces were still about as worried when it was just the two boys, while when my daughter was cruising around with her blond white nerdy boyfriend or other friends I got to relax a bit.   So here are two black families that are wildly successful through huge personal effort from a young age and through smart business decisions and investments, very high integrity and personal values, and that doesn't protect them from this kind of *****. 

It's NOT a case of "people from high crime neighborhoods get treated like criminals because there's a higher probability they are"  which is kind of what I used to believe. 

[mykidsdad]

I hate to say it, but maybe it really is just another case of a black man driving a nice car.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

34 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Why some people don’t understand this simple concept is beyond me. Lack of a disadvantage is an inherent advantage, which is a privilege. I guess people are too wrapped up in their “nobody ever gave me anything, I worked my ass off for everything I have” defensiveness to understand what a lack of an advantage means for other people on a day to day basis. 

 

This

 

9 minutes ago, mykidsdad said:

I hate to say it, but maybe it really is just another case of a black man driving a nice car.

 

Could be, although big-ass trucks pulling trailers with ATVs would be fairly common in that part of Texas I think?  Dunno how commonly driven by black folks.

 

An example of how it doesn't have to be a nice car: https://franklywrite.com/2020/06/01/a-white-woman-racism-and-a-poodle/

[mykidsdad]

20 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

This

 

 

Could be, although big-ass trucks pulling trailers with ATVs would be fairly common in that part of Texas I think?  Dunno how commonly driven by black folks.

 

An example of how it doesn't have to be a nice car: https://franklywrite.com/2020/06/01/a-white-woman-racism-and-a-poodle/

 

The article is compelling. I try telling myself its anecdotal, but it rings true. Sad but true.

[Doc]

3 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

Why would he have needed to call Uber if he hadn’t been drinking 

 

Good question.  Maybe everyone should Uber everywhere?

 

3 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

Hey did they ever catch the son of your boy's ex---the women who was beat up in the home?  He was the "only" logical suspect, right?  When do they get him for beating up his mom to frame "Shady"?  Cold case?  Maybe the Palm Beach DA can get in on that one as a consultant!

 

lol

 

Naw, it was Shady all along.  Right WEO?  

 

Keep bashing yourself over the head with that one.  I won't stop you.

 

[Mr. K]

So should we be worried about his balance?

Edited July 23, 2020 by Mr. K