Michael Lombardi "Bills have a huge hole at QB".

[Greg S]

18 minutes ago, MJS said:

Certainly isn't an issue with accuracy, in my opinion. Never has been. Allen can put the ball wherever he wants.

 

His issues are with decision making. His worst throws are when he's getting driven back and he throws off his back foot to avoid a sack. Bad decision. I even think the deep throw misses (which are low percentage anyway) were a conscious decision to lead receivers more because he was scared to turn the ball over after that NE game.

 

Another problem is processing the play sometimes, which will come with experience.

 

People still pushing the "Josh Allen is inaccurate" narrative don't really understand what his real issues are.

 

This is why I think Josh will show great improvement this year. He has two years of experience now. Josh is probably (hopefully) at the point where the game is slowing down for him. That should make him more comfortable when he is in the pocket which should lead to better decision making in where to go with ball. If it does then the Bills will be right there with the Chiefs/Ravens in representing the AFC in the Super Bowl.

[Beast]

He couldn't hold  Vince's jockstrap, that's for sure.

Edited June 26, 2020 by Beast

[26TrapDraw]

That's why he's a former team executive.

[Hampton Josh fan]

Why would we care what a failed front office guy thinks. He's not working for a team because his personnel decisions were poor. He's just a another tub of goo with a forum because he hooked on with the NFL network. Who does Lombardi think profiles well out of the 3rd year QBs, Mayfield?

[Buffalo Boy]

     Heaven forbid we give young guys the time they need.

[Buff76ers]

1 hour ago, dneveu said:

 

I think you're thinking of troup.  Either way.  Neither did anything in the league.

Yes I think you are right.

[Malazan]

Lombardi's job is to get attention..not write an insightful or groundbreaking article. He will take the most efficient route to doing so. Same way we eat up an article about Baker's troubles and Cleveland fans get all upset. Someone will post the article here and get a lot of people to go read it because how could be be so dumb to say these things about Allen while fans of other teams will go, "Haha, Bills have a RB at QB!"

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

Looking forward to his write up on 'wrong Josh'.  
*
(More from a proofreading and editing standpoint...)

[bigK14094]

I recall Trent Dilfer.....a leader, not a big league thrower.  And, Josh Allen is more than Trent Dilfer imho.  (Dilfer won a Super BTW)  We need to ride Josh up the learning curve here.  Will he win a Super Bowl....I look forward to seeing how that goes!

[Stank_Nasty]

Only "huge hole" I see is the one residing in Lombardi's skull, where his brain should be located....

 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

Michael Lombardi:  'Bills have a huge hole at QB'.

 

Most TBDers:  'Lombardi has a huge hole in his head'.

 

EDIT:  Whoops, look up before posting, you big dummy!  ??

Edited June 26, 2020 by Ridgewaycynic2013

[All_Pro_Bills]

To me its more of a read and recognition issue than accuracy.   If you're not mentally processing the options available to distribute the ball to the receivers and select an option with the best potential for a positive play then you're going to select a receiver that might not be open or the best choice which makes the throw a lot harder.   Short version, make the smart throw. 

[Stank_Nasty]

5 minutes ago, Ridgewaycynic2013 said:

Michael Lombardi:  'Bills have a huge hole at QB'.

 

Most TBDers:  'Lombardi has a huge hole in his head'.

 

EDIT:  Whoops, look up before posting, you big dummy!  ??

I like the way you think.

[Shaw66]

I've never paid attention to who Lombardi is, but apparently he's worked in player development and player assessment in the NFL for a long time.  That doesn't necessarily make him right, but for me it at least makes me stop and listen. If he learned anything in those 30 years, he probably sees and understands plenty of things that I don't. 

 

So, maybe he's seen enough in 30 years to know that Allen just isn't going to make it, that Allen's just an athlete playing quarterback and he'll never throw well enough to be a real success in the league.  That's certainly possible. 

 

That's not what I see. I see a guy who's learning to make decisions in a complicated offense in a complicated league. I don't think any quarterback can count on earning a living in the NFL by being a great runner, and that's part of the reason that I'm not on the Lamar Jackson bandwagon.  I think if you're going to have a solid, 15-year career in the NFL, you have to do it by being a good quarterback - being smart, efficient, a good decision maker and a good thrower.  I think Jackson is no better thrower than Allen - actually, I think he's worse, so I think his long-term prospects are no better than Allen's.  I'm not saying Jackson will be a long-term failure, but I don't see any reason why his chances of being a long-term success are better than Allen's.  

 

I think Lombardi is seeing Allen wrong.  The image of an athlete playing quarterback is a guy who's not a naturally great thrower, he's just an all-round athlete type of guy who has an ordinary throwing motion.  There's nothing ordinary about how Allen throws the ball. And I will continue to say that the "accuracy" argument is overblown. Guys with big arms who have failed in the NFL in the past have failed because they didn't master the mental aspects of the game, not because they had accuracy problems. 

 

I think Allen has the same problem Darnold has, the same problem Jackson has, the same problem Mayfield and Murray have: they have to master the mental aspects of the game.  Mental mastery is the one thing all the great quarterbacks have in common, not arm strength even accuracy.  Heck, look at Kelly, who isn't in the discussion of all time greats but who was definitely a franchise quarterback.  He didn't make it with accuracy or arm-strength.  He was the classic good athlete playing quarterback. He made it because of how he developed mentally, how he was able to control a game. 

[Lfod]

I don't really have a strong opinion about Josh right now. I just hope all the best for him. I can't really think franchise or failure. It's a prove it kind of season. 

[JESSEFEFFER]

5 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I've never paid attention to who Lombardi is, but apparently he's worked in player development and player assessment in the NFL for a long time.  That doesn't necessarily make him right, but for me it at least makes me stop and listen. If he learned anything in those 30 years, he probably sees and understands plenty of things that I don't. 

 

So, maybe he's seen enough in 30 years to know that Allen just isn't going to make it, that Allen's just an athlete playing quarterback and he'll never throw well enough to be a real success in the league.  That's certainly possible. 

 

That's not what I see. I see a guy who's learning to make decisions in a complicated offense in a complicated league. I don't think any quarterback can count on earning a living in the NFL by being a great runner, and that's part of the reason that I'm not on the Lamar Jackson bandwagon.  I think if you're going to have a solid, 15-year career in the NFL, you have to do it by being a good quarterback - being smart, efficient, a good decision maker and a good thrower.  I think Jackson is no better thrower than Allen - actually, I think he's worse, so I think his long-term prospects are no better than Allen's.  I'm not saying Jackson will be a long-term failure, but I don't see any reason why his chances of being a long-term success are better than Allen's.  

 

I think Lombardi is seeing Allen wrong.  The image of an athlete playing quarterback is a guy who's not a naturally great thrower, he's just an all-round athlete type of guy who has an ordinary throwing motion.  There's nothing ordinary about how Allen throws the ball. And I will continue to say that the "accuracy" argument is overblown. Guys with big arms who have failed in the NFL in the past have failed because they didn't master the mental aspects of the game, not because they had accuracy problems. 

 

I think Allen has the same problem Darnold has, the same problem Jackson has, the same problem Mayfield and Murray have: they have to master the mental aspects of the game.  Mental mastery is the one thing all the great quarterbacks have in common, not arm strength even accuracy.  Heck, look at Kelly, who isn't in the discussion of all time greats but who was definitely a franchise quarterback.  He didn't make it with accuracy or arm-strength.  He was the classic good athlete playing quarterback. He made it because of how he developed mentally, how he was able to control a game. 

 

This is all good.  I would add this:  If you are a "playmaking QB" that can make off script plays, there is even more to learn.  More bad plays come because there is an inclination to extend plays because they can and they have yet to develop a sense of when a play is there to be made or should be scrapped.  I think of an "athlete playing QB" as being very weak at QB aptitude, as you say yet to "master the mental aspects of the game" and not likely to ever do so.

[Protocal69]

Even though Al Davis had the title of GM, Mike Lombardi was the defato GM (Technically ‘Senior Personnel Executive’) of the Oakland Raiders when they drafted Jamarcus Russell. Even at this point Josh Allen is better than Jamarcus Russell. If you want to know more about Michael Lombardi read this https://bleacherreport.com/articles/258663-the-truth-about-oakland-raiders-draft-picks-and-michael-lombardi  or https://ftw.usatoday.com/2017/04/michael-lombardi-ringer-nfl-draft-quarterbacks-jamarcus-russell

Edited June 26, 2020 by Protocal69

[Shaw66]

4 minutes ago, Protocal69 said:

Even though Al Davis had the title of GM, Mike Lombardi was the defato GM (Technically ‘Senior Personnel Executive’) of the Oakland Raiders when they drafted Jamarcus Russell. Even at this point Josh Allen is better than Jamarcus Russell. If you want to know more about Michael Lombardi read this https://bleacherreport.com/articles/258663-the-truth-about-oakland-raiders-draft-picks-and-michael-lombardi

Well, I don't know about all of that, but if Lombardi was responsible for choosing Jamarcus Russell, I'm less inclined to put much stock in his experience.   

[Protocal69]

1 hour ago, jeremy2020 said:

Lombardi's job is to get attention..not write an insightful or groundbreaking article. He will take the most efficient route to doing so. Same way we eat up an article about Baker's troubles and Cleveland fans get all upset. Someone will post the article here and get a lot of people to go read it because how could be be so dumb to say these things about Allen while fans of other teams will go, "Haha, Bills have a RB at QB!"

No what makes me mad is he said that on the Bills Radio with Steve Tasker and Tasker didn’t check him one time. Lombardi can have his opinion but Lombardi went over the top in his negative assessment of Allen to the point Tasker should have gave some counter arguments. Tasker needs to go. He brings nothing to the table on the show. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

3 hours ago, Ridgewaycynic2013 said:

I can't put much stock in a piece so badly written and edited.  I do not know if it's Lombardi's fault, Parrino's fault, or Parrino's editor's fault.  Looks like the work of a grade 9 student, written on the school bus on the way to school the morning the assignment was due.

I had the same feeling, excepting that 9th grader feels generous... 

Sort of ashamed most of us haven’t achieved the ability to be compensated in any shape or form for producing something like that. 

[zonabb]

You have multiple schools of thought on Allen, as follows:

Blind Homerism - He's awesome. People are mean to him. He's going to get better. The data on him is wrong. He's the outlier, he'll get better he just needs time. These are the folks that find every and all excuses to shine a positive light. They ignore thinks like this shred from the story that dont' bode well or help their argument "In Allen’s final four games (he only played for a quarter against the New York Jets in Week 17), he failed to post higher than 53% passing, including a 24-for-46 performance in the Houston playoff loss." These folks rely on faith and emotion rather than ration and data (past and present).

 

He'll Always Suck - those who want him to suck because they have been beating this drum since they drafted him and nothing he'll do positively will ever be mentioned, instead, a la Lombardi (if he's so smart, why is he a former GM?), cherry pick the data to support their agenda, as in the quote above and the complete unwillingness to recognize any improvement or give it any credence. 

 

Let's Wait and See - The in-betweeners. Those who recognize the flaws, see some improvement and think maybe, just maybe, he can be a really good QB. These people are the pragmatists and realists, those who tend to lean on the data that says he "can't improve because few if any have" while also leaning on his work that shows improvement. I would say these people also are certain he can't be a top 5 QB, but maybe a 5-12 kind of guy, good enough to keep the team competitive and in the playoffs and maybe with a ridiculous defense and conservative, mistake free offense, they can be the Dilfer Ravens with Allen. 

 

 

[Chandler#81]

Of course it’s ridiculous click bait. But there’s some semblance of truth. If, godforbid, we lose Josh for any stretch, the season will be lost. Barkley is hot garbage and Fromm has to win over a suspicious locker room while possessing Barkley’s noodle arm.

I hope they don’t cut Joe Webb..?‍♂️ 

[BillsFan2313]

2 hours ago, thebandit27 said:

I absolutely love when people say that they’ve never seen a QB improve his accuracy, because what they really mean is “except for all the ones that have”.

 

The day of being patient with QBs is over. Allen improved his completion % by 7 in year 2, was one of the most accurate intermediate QBs in the league, which was a HUGE improvement from year one. To think he cant make another jump, with better weapons is laughable. John Brown and Cole Beasley had career years under Allen. Now another year continuity, with the OC, OL, WRs, adding Diggs and Moss. I see no reason why Allen can't make another significant jump in year 3. 

[RoyBatty is alive]

1 hour ago, dollars 2 donuts said:

Yes.  Besides the 30 TDs, 9-0 in games where he completes 60% of his passes, and mass improvement over his rookie year where he was considered a project even at #7, 4th quarter comebacks that I have actually lost track of and the playoffs...sure.

 

...now, would you like some milk before you take your goofy pills?

 

This is like saying team X wins 95% of the time when they run for over 200 yards.

 

So what is Allen's record when he doesnt hit 60% (which he has never done for a full year).

[RoyBatty is alive]

11 minutes ago, BillsFan2313 said:

 

The day of being patient with QBs is over. Allen improved his completion % by 7 in year 2, was one of the most accurate intermediate QBs in the league, which was a HUGE improvement from year one. To think he cant make another jump, with better weapons is laughable. John Brown and Cole Beasley had career years under Allen. Now another year continuity, with the OC, OL, WRs, adding Diggs and Moss. I see no reason why Allen can't make another significant jump in year 3. 

 

Just reducing the number of drops (which they should do with Diggs and better TE play of Dawson Knox) he should improve again next year.

[IDBillzFan]

The biggest problem with this article is the headline.

 

 

Saying the Bills have "a huge hole at QB" is saying Allen will absolutely fail and the great roster will be wasted.

 

Sports journalism is in an embarrassing state right now, and the click-baiters just make it unbearable.

[RoyBatty is alive]

12 minutes ago, IDBillzFan said:

The biggest problem with this article is the headline.

 

 

Saying the Bills have "a huge hole at QB" is saying Allen will absolutely fail and the great roster will be wasted.

 

Sports journalism is in an embarrassing state right now, and the click-baiters just make it unbearable.

 Exclude the word 'Sports" from your last paragraph and totally agree

[Kirby Jackson]

I haven’t read the thread but is this where we talk about how Lombardi is an idiot for rolling with Campbell and Hoyer?

Edited June 26, 2020 by Kirby Jackson

[JESSEFEFFER]

55 minutes ago, Protocal69 said:

No what makes me mad is he said that on the Bills Radio with Steve Tasker and Tasker didn’t check him one time. Lombardi can have his opinion but Lombardi went over the top in his negative assessment of Allen to the point Tasker should have gave some counter arguments. Tasker needs to go. He brings nothing to the table on the show. 

 

Imo, as an interviewer, I do not think its his job to challenge the opinions of his guests by presenting his own.  It's not a debate.  He has plenty of time to present his own views in other show segments and does so.  He just needs to probe their view enough to fully see the foundation upon which their view is made.

[gordong]

How can you have a huge hole at QB when the QB is 6'5"????    Yeah I said it.

[dollars 2 donuts]

1 hour ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

 

This is like saying team X wins 95% of the time when they run for over 200 yards.

 

So what is Allen's record when he doesnt hit 60% (which he has never done for a full year).

 

 

1-6, I believe, as he is 9-0 when he does.  possibly 1-7 if you include the playoffs, but I don't know his playoff numbers.

 

...so...I, for one, would like to see him hit that over 60% mark a lot.

Edited June 26, 2020 by dollars 2 donuts

[billsfan89]

Huge hole? I wouldn't go as far as to say that. Hole implies that the Bills have a proven bust or a washed veteran combo at QB. The Bills have a big question mark at QB for sure. Josh is still a developing QB and a lot of the Bills fortunes are going to rest on just how well he can do. But I would qualify Josh as a question mark because he is coming off of a season of progression and not regression. Yet his quality of play must at least moderately improve. 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

1 hour ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

I had the same feeling, excepting that 9th grader feels generous... 

Sort of ashamed most of us haven’t achieved the ability to be compensated in any shape or form for producing something like that. 

Quite honestly, I should be taken to task since it's merely Lombardi's opinion I disagree with.  The slipshod article that Parrino wrote, and Parrino's editor approved are what I most take exception to.  The article seems just another in what passes for journalism nowadays.

[BuffaloMatt]

My two cents (which is worth less than two cents): This year could actually be seen as year one for JA as he was so inexperienced as a college QB. He was in a program that didn't expose him to pro-style anything. (Remember the Potato Bowl). The last two years made up for that lack of pro-style experience. I know it is hard to be patient as a Bills fan. We waited this long  and I think this year is the year that JA will show the naysayers that they are wrong!!!

[Lurker]

Until 2016, he was an assistant to the coaching staff of the New England Patriots. 

 

smh...

[HomeskillitMoorman]

I'm in the camp of this being click-bait in the extremity of the headline.

 

But the actual concerns raised are legit. If we're being real...Josh hasn't played well against top competition namely the Patriots, and in the case of the playoff game, pretty much threw up on himself in the 2nd half against a bad secondary. My issue has moreso been with the deer in the headlights look he's especially had against the Pats, especially in the home game. That was really hard to stomach.

 

That being said, he is very talented and I think he's better than the numbers bear out, as controversial as that's become to say. But I have my concerns about him making the leap to the next level too, and I think that's fair. We'll see what happens this year with Diggs and hopefully the o-line will take a step forward too, that's actually my biggest worry going into this season. It's our weakest unit IMO and really the only issue I've had with Beane this offseason. 

 

But I agree with one of the posters above that it's become very polarizing in the sense that there's such extreme opinions about Josh, whether it's that he's a star already with no questionmarks and then the group that think he sucks. I don't think either is right yet. 

 

 

 

 

[Billl]

5 hours ago, thebandit27 said:

I absolutely love when people say that they’ve never seen a QB improve his accuracy, because what they really mean is “except for all the ones that have”.

 

4 hours ago, MJS said:

Pretty much every QB in the league improves their completion percentage over their career, especially from the first couple of years. So if that's the magic accuracy number, and people always point to that when criticizing Allen, then it's pretty clear that QB's do improve their accuracy.

 

But it's funny that we expect accuracy improvement at every level of football until they get to the pros, then it's impossible for accuracy to improve.

It’s not rare for QBs to improve their completion percentages as they grow.  It is rare that they do so dramatically, though.  Rare enough that most people don’t expect it from someone who was dead last in the league two years in a row.

[whatdrought]

If there’s a huge hole in anything it’s cause Michael Lombardi ate it. 

[thebandit27]

9 minutes ago, Billl said:

 

It’s not rare for QBs to improve their completion percentages as they grow.  It is rare that they do so dramatically, though.  Rare enough that most people don’t expect it from someone who was dead last in the league two years in a row.

Not really.

 

You've been cited the examples of guys like Brees and Ryan (and a half dozen other high draft picks); you chose to marginalize their significance. Your prerogative, but it’s odd to say that it’s rare when it’s not.

 

Also, instead of citing completion percentage, which is largely affected by drop rate, it probably makes more sense to cite on-target percentage...but fair warning: it doesn’t quite buttress the argument as you might expect.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

As an NFL (effective) GM, Lombardi showed he had a great eye for QB talent?  ?‍♂️

Browns

Raiders