Minority HC or GM could improve team’s draft position with new proposed resolution

[FLFan]

1 minute ago, whatdrought said:

Who would that be? 

Sorry, but I am not going to call out individuals.  For anyone paying attention, it is all too obvious.  

[whatdrought]

Just now, FLFan said:

Sorry, but I am not going to call out individuals.  For anyone paying attention, it is all too obvious.  

You have contributed greatly to this thread. 

[FLFan]

1 minute ago, whatdrought said:

You have contributed greatly to this thread. 

Sorry if  I do not feel insulted by small minded people.  It is really impossible.  

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, whatdrought said:

You have contributed greatly to this thread. 

And you've been a model of restraint.

[Johnnycage46]

It's really funny how wanting jobs to be based on ability and NOT skin color is considered racist now.  That seems to be the exact opposite of racism.  I know full well racism is alive and well in this country and around the world.  But it's not automatically racism if a minority doesn't get a job as a head coach or GM in the NFL.  In this league where winning is everything, it seems absolutely absurd to think an owner or GM would not want to hire a coach that they felt gave them the best chance to win, simply based on the fact that that candidate is a minority.  All while that example/fictional team is likely upwards of a 70% non-white roster.  It just doesn't compute.

[Victory Formation]

To me it’s racist it’s because they’re saying, hey look, you ain’t good enough to get this position on your own so let’s make it easier on you because you’re too inept to get this job on equal footing.

[whatdrought]

10 minutes ago, FLFan said:

Sorry if  I do not feel insulted by small minded people.  It is really impossible.  

You seem the be the only person on this thread feeling the need to throw insults, which really is interesting since you haven’t actually engaged the conversation at all. But it’s all good. You do what you need to do.

 

6 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

And you've been a model of restraint.

Why thank you. I try very hard to stay civil while being indirectly accused of one of the most offensive things humanity has ever conjured.

Edited May 15, 2020 by whatdrought

[Happy]

30 minutes ago, JR in Pittsburgh said:

I like the Rooney rule. Helps people expand their networks through the interview process. 
 

 GMs usually hire coaches they know or are within their circles. coaches too Often looks for assistants and free agents they know and are within their circles. Just look at all our Carolina connections.  
 

at a minimum, it gets folks to meet each other in an interview setting and start building relationships. 

 

You're absolutely right about GMs and coaches hiring those they are familiar with, which just supports my point that the Rooney Rule is just a box checking entity.  Too many minority candidates get an interview based on the Rooney Rule then get passed over for the coaching position that the HC and GM know.  Maybe the interview leads to some networking opportunities, but that is not the intent of the rule.

 

Anyway, this new new proposed resolution takes that a step further and completely goes against the spirit of sports.

[Buffalo03]

2 hours ago, mjt328 said:

What a blatantly racist idea.

 

If you believe the United States has a problem with RACISM, then you don't FIX IT by giving bonuses/perks to organizations for HIRING BASED ON RACE.  

It's completely ass-backwards.  Honestly, I don't know how people come up with this ridiculous garbage.  Maybe instead of testing the players for CTE, they need to check the folks in the NFL offices for brain damage.

 

By the way, African Americans make up 12-14 percent of the U.S. population, according to the latest census figures.

If you took that percent and multiplied it by 32 teams, that comes to exactly 4.48.  Which means you would expect to see 4-5 African American head coaches in the NFL at any given time.  There are currently FOUR in the league.  

 

This is a completely made-up and manufactured "problem."

 

I don't think this is right. It might be based off of census figures but not everyone fills out a census or sends it back. I never do. 

 

If these are accurate figures based off a country with a population size of 300,000,000 people then that would mean that there are only 36,000,000-42,000,000 African Americans in this country which seems far to low. I know they are minorities and I could be wrong but that just seems too low

[NoSaint]

22 minutes ago, Johnnycage46 said:

It's really funny how wanting jobs to be based on ability and NOT skin color is considered racist now.  That seems to be the exact opposite of racism.  I know full well racism is alive and well in this country and around the world.  But it's not automatically racism if a minority doesn't get a job as a head coach or GM in the NFL.  In this league where winning is everything, it seems absolutely absurd to think an owner or GM would not want to hire a coach that they felt gave them the best chance to win, simply based on the fact that that candidate is a minority.  All while that example/fictional team is likely upwards of a 70% non-white roster.  It just doesn't compute.

doesn’t add up because you likely wrote the equation wrong.

 

while there are almost certainly a few racist owners in sports that consciously think a black guy can run fast but not be a thought leader.... more commonly would likely be the guy that handed the same resume is more prone to subconsciously rate the one he relates to a bit higher, and identifying racially is a way that can happen.

 

neither of those types of situations see an owner passing on a guy they think will win more, and one isn’t even particularly nefarious.... but could be a legit road block.

[Herc11]

When I was a recruiter for the Air Force, we didnt get extra credit for our monthly quota for minorities. However, there was a competition system that came from HQ that would drive the awards. If you were the #1 Squadron or #1 Recruiter in the nation that was HUGE for your career. In that system, of course, minorities were worth more than others.

 

It was a technicality, that they took advantage of to not look like they were doing what they really were. But my god, if you ever suggested that they were doing this, you would get your ***** jumped like no other. 

Edited May 15, 2020 by Herc11

[1st&ten]

Didn't have time to read all the posts---I have no problem wit creating opportunities but this upsets the balance of talent between teams. Give teams a bigger cut of NFL revenue sharing or something.

 

Edited May 15, 2020 by 1st&ten

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

26 minutes ago, Happy said:

 

You're absolutely right about GMs and coaches hiring those they are familiar with, which just supports my point that the Rooney Rule is just a box checking entity.  Too many minority candidates get an interview based on the Rooney Rule then get passed over for the coaching position that the HC and GM know.  Maybe the interview leads to some networking opportunities, but that is not the intent of the rule.

 

Anyway, this new new proposed resolution takes that a step further and completely goes against the spirit of sports.

I guess I view the Rooney rule as more of a longer-term “solution” (though I agree with you that that probably isn’t what is intended).

 

If I am a minority HC candidate, that’s how I am viewing it, at least.  I am going in to make a great impression In the interview and start building relationships. Stay in touch, grab lunch, get together with the GM’s and even owners you interview with. Getting the job offer would be great, but not expected. Few GMs are going to go with an unknown (to them) candidate regardless of color. 
 

there’s a reason these retreads get a million opportunities; they just know more people. 

[FLFan]

41 minutes ago, whatdrought said:

You seem the be the only person on this thread feeling the need to throw insults, which really is interesting since you haven’t actually engaged the conversation at all. But it’s all good. You do what you need to do.

 

Why thank you. I try very hard to stay civil while being indirectly accused of one of the most offensive things humanity has ever conjured.

I never accused you specifically of anything.  I made a general comment about the comments on this thread being racist while the commenters would likely not admit that or even understand the racism they displayed.  (“Closet racists” is the term I used) You reacted to that.  If you felt that personally, that’s on you.

 

By the  way, that was engaging in the conversation, whether you understand the legitimacy of the comment or not.  

Edited May 15, 2020 by FLFan

[billsfan89]

I am all for the Rooney Rule as I think it helps expose the league to minority candidates but this is just silly

[atlbillsfan1975]

3 hours ago, Dr. Who said:

60 years of social engineering through education and the media has dimmed the intellect appreciably. Saw a high school textbook from the early sixties in a Goodwill book sale a number of years back. The vocabulary was way beyond what folks normally imbibe and treat as typical for literacy today. How far we have drifted from MLK's desire for merit and character to become the true basis for discernment.

Hear hear!!!

well said my friend. 
when we all can look past the color of a persons skin, and find out who they are, we will truly be an equal society. Government and corporations can not do this, we the people must.

Edited May 15, 2020 by atlbillsfan1975

[LABILLBACKER]

3 hours ago, mjt328 said:

What a blatantly racist idea.

 

If you believe the United States has a problem with RACISM, then you don't FIX IT by giving bonuses/perks to organizations for HIRING BASED ON RACE.  

It's completely ass-backwards.  Honestly, I don't know how people come up with this ridiculous garbage.  Maybe instead of testing the players for CTE, they need to check the folks in the NFL offices for brain damage.

 

By the way, African Americans make up 12-14 percent of the U.S. population, according to the latest census figures.

If you took that percent and multiplied it by 32 teams, that comes to exactly 4.48.  Which means you would expect to see 4-5 African American head coaches in the NFL at any given time.  There are currently FOUR in the league.  

 

This is a completely made-up and manufactured "problem."

 

Couldn't agree more. The NFL should be ashamed and embarrassed for even coming up with this idea. Its insulting to minorities to incentivize an organization to hire more black gms/hcs. It's like giving a team a coupon for more draft picks. NFL just stop.

[Nester]

Just get your GM or HC to identify as a woman, BAMN first in line for picks and you now play every Monday night.

Edited May 15, 2020 by Nester

[GoBills808]

21 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Couldn't agree more. The NFL should be ashamed and embarrassed for even coming up with this idea. Its insulting to minorities to incentivize an organization to hire more black gms/hcs. It's like giving a team a coupon for more draft picks. NFL just stop.

I'd imagine it best if minorities could be in charge of deciding what they're insulted by. Show of hands, who here arguing for hiring based on 'merit' would turn down a more prestigious, much higher paying job that they might be underqualified for because the were 'insulted' it was offered to them? 

[Mike in Horseheads]

3 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

I'd imagine it best if minorities could be in charge of deciding what they're insulted by. Show of hands, who here arguing for hiring based on 'merit' would turn down a more prestigious, much higher paying job that they might be underqualified for because the were 'insulted' it was offered to them? 

That would set a dangerous precedent here

[Putin]

4 hours ago, whatdrought said:

I wonder about him. I think he will as well, but defensive re-treads don’t seem to get as many shots as offensive re-treads.

I agree 100%   it’s mostly about offense  !!! 
Even it you didn’t succeed your first gig as a HC , and went back few years as a OC and had success especially under a good offensive mind  HC you’ll get another shot !!!

[Mr. WEO]

I wonder how long the owners will pretend to debate this before voting down the proposal to move up some spots in the 3rd round in a draft and be stuck with a HC they didn't want in the first place.

 

This is one wacky proposal.

[ehfeuh57]

3 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

70% of the nfl is black.  It’s not the rest of the US population.  You don’t think any of those 70% over the years were qualified to have a leadership job?  

 

Head coach/play calling and GM are completely different jobs than football player

 

I dont see NFL head coach as a player who is upgraded to a leadership position

 

Should a surgeon in the inner city just be one of the nurses who was upgraded to leadership?

[Mango]

4 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I wonder how this is going to go on this board. ? it’s a very diverse group here.

 

and yes forcing people to get hired is a problem.  But the lack of diversity at the top levels in the nfl is a serious issue.  And I don’t think it’s racist but rather the buddy buddy system in NFL front offices.  Crappy coaches and executives get passed around because of who they are friends with.  While being a player is a meritocracy, nfl jobs are the opposite of that. 

 

 

Right. OK, improving draft stock seems a bit like over correcting too far. But in an African American dominated sport the lack of racial diversity is appalling. This may be the wrong solution, but instead of people whining about it, what is the proper route. Because “just hire the most qualified regardless of race” is not working, and historically has never worked in America. 

[Cheektowaga Chad]

So 2 gm's and 4 head coaches. Seems like the tweet is missing another number.

 

How many minority owners are there?

[Mango]

One good move I like in this is removing restrictions from assistance to interview as coordinators. It was silly to begin with DC/OC is clearly a promotion from DL, CB, QB etc. coach. 

[bbb]

4 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

the number of black players in the nfl is ~70%

 

Teams should get rewarded for hiring more white players.  

[Orlando Tim]

12 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

 

Right. OK, improving draft stock seems a bit like over correcting too far. But in an African American dominated sport the lack of racial diversity is appalling. This may be the wrong solution, but instead of people whining about it, what is the proper route. Because “just hire the most qualified regardless of race” is not working, and historically has never worked in America. 

I have to ask why is the lack appalling? Which coaching prospect do you feel has not gotten a fair shake? We used to have more so why has it gotten worse?

[JaCrispy]

5 hours ago, Dr. Who said:

60 years of social engineering through education and the media has dimmed the intellect appreciably. Saw a high school textbook from the early sixties in a Goodwill book sale a number of years back. The vocabulary was way beyond what folks normally imbibe and treat as typical for literacy today. How far we have drifted from MLK's desire for merit and character to become the true basis for discernment.

Yup...Martin Luther King is rolling in his grave...his dream has all but faded as modern identity politics makes it so EVERYBODY is now judged by the color of their skin instead of their merit or character ...such a shame...?

[JaCrispy]

5 hours ago, Gugny said:

This is dumb.

It’s not just dumb- it’s also racist...

[Mr. WEO]

37 minutes ago, bbb said:

 

Teams should get rewarded for hiring more white players.  

 

Maybe you could start a redundant thread about this..

[whatdrought]

2 hours ago, FLFan said:

I never accused you specifically of anything.  I made a general comment about the comments on this thread being racist while the commenters would likely not admit that or even understand the racism they displayed.  (“Closet racists” is the term I used) You reacted to that.  If you felt that personally, that’s on you.

 

By the  way, that was engaging in the conversation, whether you understand the legitimacy of the comment or not.  

 

3 hours ago, FLFan said:

Sorry if  I do not feel insulted by small minded people.  It is really impossible.  

 

"Small minded people" was not directed at me? 

 

As for your initial comment, it seems to me, based on the meta-narrative of the thread that your idea of closeted racists would be those who disagree with this rule, or have any problem with similar such rules and measures. Mayhaps I was wrong in assuming that, but I did give you the opportunity to specify what you meant as you accused unknown members of this thread of being racists (closeted or not). Members, who in actuality have been quite civil and understanding in this thread (at least the strong majority). Either way, you didn't want to comment on that, preferring to take pot-shots from the sidelines. At that point you then used the above small minded comment, again, presumably aimed at me. 

 

Either way, you've offered nothing of substance and you have not in fact engaged the conversation. You've sequestered yourself to the sideline with your moral superiority and have shown no interest to dialogue about the OP, or the content within this thread. Thus, you are a wholly valueless addition to this already jammed packed thread. But, therein lies the beauty of this forum, you're free to do that. Just like I'm free to say I find your casting of aspersions and lack of explanation both tasteless and idiotic, but that is my opinion. 

 

Have a good one.

Edited May 16, 2020 by whatdrought

[TwistofFate]

5 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

It’s complicated for sure.  It would nice to have a rational conversation but it’s like discussing the best rap song on a country music board.  
 

the number of black players in the nfl is ~70%.  So when you understand it that way, the number of Black guys in leadership positions is extremely low.  
 

again this is different than being a player where you can judge how they perform on their field.  These jobs are very subjective and they are based on who you know.  It’s like a country club and it’s hard to become a member. 
 

not sure this is the right way but if you were a minority, it’s a start I guess. 

That 70% is there because they are the best at what they do, not because of their skin color. 

 

Heads would explode if the league said, hey, 70% of the NFL players are black, we need more white people to make it fair.  We are elevating teams draft positions if they draft more white guys. 

 

Its the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard in both scenarios. 

[Process]

This can't be real can it? If so it has to be the dumbest idea in NFL history?

 

Isn't compensating a team for hiring a black person unbelievably racist? 

Edited May 16, 2020 by Process

[Sharky7337]

I love the argument that there is not enough people of diverse ethnic backgrounds coaching and GM ing. As long as they enforce more equality on the player base as well because they are 80 percent African American, then sure, go for it. God forbid there is too many millionaire minority players.....  why isn't equality equal? Is there a draft bonus for drafting white players since they are vastly outnumbered.....

Edited May 16, 2020 by Sharky7337

[Mr. WEO]

This has to be the most cynical NFL proposal ever:

 

In return for hiring a guy you otherwise weren't interested in and giving him a guaranteed 3-4-5 year contract at 5-6 million per.......you get to move up 10 spots in next year's 3 round!!

 

That's the worst offer ever.  They are just tossing something out there to show they are very concerned with the paucity of minority HC/GMs.  

[bbb]

19 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Maybe you could start a redundant thread about this..

 

Yeah, I was trying to steal the glory from Yolo.  It's not like I looked all over for a thread about the Rooney Rule since that's what was trending on Twitter....................I hate starting threads.  Maybe this is why. 

 

I feel so much shame.........

[JaCrispy]

3 minutes ago, Process said:

This can't be real can it? If so it has to be the dumbest idea in NFL history?

 

Isn't compensating a team for hiring a black person unbelievably racist? 

Not only that, but how will it make the black coach feel to know he was hired because the team had incentive to do so- and not necessarily because he earned it? 
 

And how will the rest of the league feel, knowing, that in the race for a championship, black coaches got a head start?

 

 

[GoBills808]

Just now, JaCrispy said:

Not only that, but how will it make the black coach feel to know he was hired because the team had incentive to do so- and not necessarily because he earned it? 
 

And how will the rest of the league feel, knowing, that in the race for a championship, black coaches got a head start?

 

 

How would you feel if you earned a shitload of money and prestige for a job you were possibly underqualified for? lmfao

[Mr. WEO]

9 minutes ago, bbb said:

 

Yeah, I was trying to steal the glory from Yolo.  It's not like I looked all over for a thread about the Rooney Rule since that's what was trending on Twitter....................I hate starting threads.  Maybe this is why. 

 

I feel so much shame.........

 

All you had to do was look at the thread immediately above yours and you would see that YOLO beat you by 5 hours and 7 pages.  Just sayin....