Still slow burning over bad calls in Texans' game

[Ethan in Cleveland]

Second half kick off and illegal crack back block were the right calls. 
Bills win if Knox makes one block. 

I agree the other two were missed. Elite defenses don't give up 3rd and 18 in OT.

[cle23]

The touchback call I think was just common sense. He obviously gave himself up in the endzone, so it's a touchback.

 

The delay of game is hard to tell. The broadcast didn't always show the right numbers. By the picture it was, but there's no way to tell if it actually was a penalty.

 

The "helmet to helmet" wasn't a penalty. To me that's not even close. 

 

I do think the crack back penalty was a bit excessive for what happened.

Edited April 12, 2020 by cle23

[LABILLBACKER]

A) Yes the calls sucked especially the Ford block.

B) Maybe Sean will learn not to be so damn conservative with leads.

C) We probably weren't winning anyway with all the JJ Watt media lovefest.

D) With all this Coronavirus nightmare going on I'll be happy if I live long enough to see Josh play year 3.

[MJS]

I agree with everything except the Cody Ford blindsided block. He broke the rules plain and simple.

 

But the other things were bad. I will say that refs miss the delay of game penalty all the time. It went in favor for Buffalo at least once as well when the ball was snapped long after the play clock read zero.

 

Ultimately you can't blame things on the refs, though. The Bills should have gotten it done. Delay of game shouldn't have mattered. The elite defense we have should have prevented a 3rd and 18 conversion. They should have sacked Watson instead of letting him get loose at the end. Have to pin this loss on the team.

 

Bad calls happen every single game. You have to overcome them. Every team's fans think the refs are out to get them.

 

Edited April 12, 2020 by MJS

[MJS]

7 hours ago, Inigo Montoya said:

 

 

Actually, ScottLaw, Ford is not parallel to his own goal line when he blocks the defender.  Hell, the picture above shows him squaring up on the defender.  Ford is parallel to the sidelines on that block.  The defender is facing the sidelines and Ford hits him face to face. Don't take my word for it though, watch the video.  Go to the 2:55 mark of the video and see for yourself and then come back and argue with me some more...

 

Just look at the still frame before pressing play and you can see that Ford is facing his own end zone (parallel) and the force of the block (what little there was) pushes the defender towards Ford's end zone.

 

And the man in the video seems to be saying they called the penalty because the defender wasn't looking. The defender looking is not important. He came back and blocked the guy illegally. It sucks it got called.

 

Doesn't matter if the player was in the play or not. Ford was moving toward his own end line and contacted the defender with his forearm. To block within the rules all he needed to do was extend his arms and push the defender with his hands. If you make contact with your hands it is not a penalty because a blindsided block requires contact with the helmet, forearm, or shoulder. Forceable contact does not mean hitting hard. Forceable means enacting force to initiate contact at any level of severity.

 

Ticky tack call for sure, but it is technically against the rules. People can argue that it should not have been called because it was Ticky tack, but nobody should be arguing that Ford was operating within the rules! He wasn't!

Edited April 12, 2020 by MJS

[billsbackto81]

The only solace I can take from that game is that I'm grateful the bad calls weren't in our glorious return to the SB. 

[MJS]

6 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Parallel WITH the goal line*. It’s a close call either way.... and the refs didn’t cost us the game. Inexperience and mistakes all around did.

Dude, don't back down from them. Ford was clearly facing his end zone and moving towards it. Toward or parallel to your own end zone is illegal when making a block with your forearm, helmet, or shoulder.

 

I do not know what people are looking at. This is the exact definition of a blindside block! People are hung up on the word parallel, but who cares about that word? The rule says TOWARD or PARALLEL your own end zone. Ford moved toward his own end zone to initiate contact.

 

They also are hind up on the word forceable thinking it means you have to hit hard. Not true. Forceable means to exert force of any kind. They can't just say contact because that would include any incidental contact.

 

I disagree with you on practically everything, but not this.

Edited April 12, 2020 by MJS

[Seasons1992]

10 hours ago, njbuff said:

 

I still have nightmares over the Harmon drop. ?

 

But then I come to the realization that if Harmon catches that ball, the Bills go to Denver and that would be a very difficult game to begin with.

 

Then if they beat Denver, they would have gotten crushed by that all time great Niners team in the SB.

 

So, in other words, if Harmon caught that ball, we would have been talking about FIVE SB losses in row (had they beat Denver).

 

This is the most positive thing I've ever seen written on TBD. Brilliant!

[Sherlock Holmes]

9 hours ago, Inigo Montoya said:

 

Give me a break ScottLaw.  Watch the video.  Ford blocks him face to face, Josh Allen is maybe two yards away from the defender, the defender is still actively in the play trying to tackle the QB,  Ford does't de-cleat the defender or hammer him.  It's a horrendous call.  Period.  If Ford's block is a penalty then there is a personal foul on every other running play that goes around the edge.

 

And if you want to play the, "just read the  ***** rules" game,  just go ahead and read the rule on giving yourself up when receiving a kickoff, and then tell me why that wasn't a Bills touchdown to start the second half. 

 

I don't know how you can possibly defend that penalty call on Ford.  It makes sense that you would though, all you do here is troll.   I bet you have six fingers on your right hand...

 

 

                ScottLaw's Hand

 

 

I might have to see what ScottyLaw can do with that extra finger

[Cripple Creek]

12 hours ago, Inigo Montoya said:

My take on that game was that the Bills and the Texans were teams with that were pretty evenly matched talent wise.  The game was going to be a coin toss from the start.  Looking at the game there were multiple factors that swung the game to the Texans.  Every bad call in the game went against the Bills.  Change a single one of those bad calls and the Bills win. Here are the refs "Greatest Hits" of the game.  There wasn't a single bad call against the Texans.  I'm not claiming there was a conspiracy by the refs,  just horrendous officiating.

 

Before everyone starts the what about Allen, what about Daboll, what about the second half defense arguments, if anyone of these calls goes the other way, the Bills win the game.  Once again, not saying there was a conspiracy,  just the the Bills had four horrible calls go against them in the game, each one a critical call that screwed the Bills and had a clear effect on the outcome of the game. 

 

The first bad call was the officials disregarding the letter of the rule to apply "common sense" to the touch back / non touch back at the beginning of the second half.   It reminds me of all those plays where the showboating player drops the ball at the one yard line when he starts to celebrate  his TD too early and the officials just give him the TD anyways because he meant to score a TD.  Wait a minute...  It's the first time since I've been watching football for decades that I have ever seen an officiating crew decide to ignore a rule as written because the player didn't mean to violate the rule.  Watch for yourself, the player moves backwards with his arms at waste level behind him.  That is apparently the new signal for a touch back in the NFL.   Does anyone think that if he had instead run the ball out of the end zone on that play the ref would have called a penalty on him?  The end zone official, the one 10 feet from the player ruled that he never gave himself up.  The video shows the play and goes in to detail on the touch back rule and how it was ignored in this instance.

 

 

 

The second bad call is the non call delay of game on the 3rd and 18 in overtime that the Texans end up converting...  https://larrybrownsports.com/football/referees-miss-delay-of-game-penalty-texans/531492  The link discusses this in greater detail.

 

 

 

The third bad call is Zach Cunningham's egregious helmet to helmet on Josh Allen in OT.  That missed call would have put the Bills inside the Texans 30 with a 1st down...

 

 

The fourth bad call, and the grand daddy of them all, was the "illegal crack back / blindside block by Cody Ford.   Unlike the second half kick off non-touch back where the refs intuit the intent of the player, here the officials decide to apply the literal interpretation of the rule meticulously even though this is clearly not the type of "blind side" hit the rule was written to prevent.  If this is a "blind side" hit then there is one of these "blind side' hits on just about every running play in the game.  Here is a link to a video that shows the play from every angle.  There is also the cross field angle which truly shows just how horrible the call was.  I recommend watching the entire video or you can just fast forward to the 1:30 mark to see the cross field angle.  I guess Ford was just supposed to stand there an let the DE run past him to tackle Allen..  It still makes me sick.  This would play have put the bills in field goal range in OT again.

 

Get over it Indigo.  Were there some bad calls? Yes.

 

 

Should the Bills still have won the game irregardless of the calls? Yes.

 

The team and coaches spit the bit when the lights were the brightest.  Hopefully it is something that they all learn from.

[YattaOkasan]

The inconsistency is the problem to me. If we’re playing by the letter then we get the TD and sure ford made a bad block (I still think his vector is more towards the sideline than it is towards his own goal). If you are being reasonable then no TD (I was ok it in real time) but don’t call that silly blindside block. 

[machine gun kelly]

11 hours ago, The Dean said:

Still slow burning?

 

Quick advice : STOP!

 

Anything positive coming from it?  If not, why bother?

Inigo ,y friend, I’m with Dean with this one.  Let’s move onto 2020.  As BB says, we’re onto Cincinnati as a metaphor.

BTW - I’m with you bad calls, some very questionable play calling, but it’s over.

[JMF2006]

My biggest beef besides the helmet to helmet on Josh is the second half kick off.

 

The proper procedure in the rule book  to down a kick off is to take a knee.

 

The arms out thing is for  a player not making an attempt to catch the ball.

 

He catches the ball does not take a knee the ball is live.

 

I bet if that had happened to the Bills it would have had a different outcome.

 

The rules are the rules and they are there for a reason.

 

Just like a QB with the arm going forward....if his hand is empty its a fumble.....but wait the QB intended a forward pass overturn the call  

Edited April 12, 2020 by JMF2006

[SoCal Deek]

17 minutes ago, JMF2006 said:

My biggest beef besides the helmet to helmet on Josh is the second half kick off.

 

The proper procedure in the rule book  to down a kick off is to take a knee.

 

The arms out thing is for  a player not making an attempt to catch the ball.

 

He catches the ball does not take a knee the ball is live.

Correct! The rules are not there to save players from their own foolish mistakes. Remember the NCAA basketball final where the kid called a timeout when they didn’t have one? The referee didn’t hesitate to give him a technical foul and they lost the national championship. No controversy whatsoever.

[BarleyNY]

Only the losers B word about bad calls because they’re the only ones looking for them.  The winners are on to the next game.  Few notice the calls - whether they’re good, bad, questionable or just properly enforced bad rules - when they go in their team’s favor.  They only dissect them when they don’t and they lose.

Edited April 12, 2020 by BarleyNY

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

3 hours ago, MJS said:

Dude, don't back down from them. Ford was clearly facing his end zone and moving towards it. Toward or parallel to your own end zone is illegal when making a block with your forearm, helmet, or shoulder.

 

I do not know what people are looking at. This is the exact definition of a blindside block! People are hung up on the word parallel, but who cares about that word? The rule says TOWARD or PARALLEL your own end zone. Ford moved toward his own end zone to initiate contact.

 

They also are hind up on the word forceable thinking it means you have to hit hard. Not true. Forceable means to exert force of any kind. They can't just say contact because that would include any incidental contact.

 

I disagree with you on practically everything, but not this.

I got hung up on “forcible contact”, which is different than “contact” implies judgement, and the fact that similar calls were not made in subsequent games, including  at least two Mahommes scrambles thereafter.  The fine line between “Holy crap what a play” and a flag is razor thin. 
 

Also, it’s hard to separate rational “ah, they viewed it as forcible” when a shot to the head is not called as well.  And when black-suited officials suddenly rush into the field, like evil Spider-Man in a Marvel comic book. ?
 

The NFL, phrases like “good no call!” and the relative dearth of obviously flag-worthy calls as the game comes to critical points is the true culprit here.  
 

When the league improves the officiating experience, people will have less to complain about. 
 

 

 

 

[Dr. Who]

13 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

I've been having this discussion since the game.... fans just like to blame refs for everything. It was absolutely a penalty but not sure why I keep trying to convince fans who won't be convinced. As I said Spain got away with a blatant hold earlier in the drive.... refs didn't lose the game for the Bills, the Bills lost it all on their own. Mental mistakes all around lost the game. 

The game was too big for them -- still if one fella makes a block for Josh, its a W. And the refs were atrocious, six fingers ?.

[fan_in_tx]

15 hours ago, Inigo Montoya said:

My take on that game was that the Bills and the Texans were teams with that were pretty evenly matched talent wise.  The game was going to be a coin toss from the start.  Looking at the game there were multiple factors that swung the game to the Texans.  Every bad call in the game went against the Bills.  Change a single one of those bad calls and the Bills win. Here are the refs "Greatest Hits" of the game.  There wasn't a single bad call against the Texans.  I'm not claiming there was a conspiracy by the refs,  just horrendous officiating.

 

Before everyone starts the what about Allen, what about Daboll, what about the second half defense arguments, if anyone of these calls goes the other way, the Bills win the game.  Once again, not saying there was a conspiracy,  just the the Bills had four horrible calls go against them in the game, each one a critical call that screwed the Bills and had a clear effect on the outcome of the game. 

 

The first bad call was the officials disregarding the letter of the rule to apply "common sense" to the touch back / non touch back at the beginning of the second half.   It reminds me of all those plays where the showboating player drops the ball at the one yard line when he starts to celebrate  his TD too early and the officials just give him the TD anyways because he meant to score a TD.  Wait a minute...  It's the first time since I've been watching football for decades that I have ever seen an officiating crew decide to ignore a rule as written because the player didn't mean to violate the rule.  Watch for yourself, the player moves backwards with his arms at waste level behind him.  That is apparently the new signal for a touch back in the NFL.   Does anyone think that if he had instead run the ball out of the end zone on that play the ref would have called a penalty on him?  The end zone official, the one 10 feet from the player ruled that he never gave himself up.  The video shows the play and goes in to detail on the touch back rule and how it was ignored in this instance.

 

 

 

The second bad call is the non call delay of game on the 3rd and 18 in overtime that the Texans end up converting...  https://larrybrownsports.com/football/referees-miss-delay-of-game-penalty-texans/531492  The link discusses this in greater detail.

 

 

 

The third bad call is Zach Cunningham's egregious helmet to helmet on Josh Allen in OT.  That missed call would have put the Bills inside the Texans 30 with a 1st down...

 

 

The fourth bad call, and the grand daddy of them all, was the "illegal crack back / blindside block by Cody Ford.   Unlike the second half kick off non-touch back where the refs intuit the intent of the player, here the officials decide to apply the literal interpretation of the rule meticulously even though this is clearly not the type of "blind side" hit the rule was written to prevent.  If this is a "blind side" hit then there is one of these "blind side' hits on just about every running play in the game.  Here is a link to a video that shows the play from every angle.  There is also the cross field angle which truly shows just how horrible the call was.  I recommend watching the entire video or you can just fast forward to the 1:30 mark to see the cross field angle.  I guess Ford was just supposed to stand there an let the DE run past him to tackle Allen..  It still makes me sick.  This would play have put the bills in field goal range in OT again.

 

The Key to the touchdown touchback is simple.  If you watch the earlier kickoff after the Bills score the same player rightfully downs the ball in the endzone.  He doesn't toss the ball to the ref, he looks up field realizes bringing it out is not a good idea and takes a knee.  HE KNEW THE RULE.   By tossing it towards the ref he had a brain fart but that should not have causes the Bills points.  It was the players mistake and it cost the Bills.

 

[WhoTom]

What is it about guys named Inigo Montoya holding a grudge?

?

 

 

[fan_in_tx]

Play @2:37  If Cody Ford did a blindside block isn't this the same thing that Duke Johnson does?   

 

 

[Tcali]

there are very very few games where you can blame officiating for really costing you a game.

Yes there are bad calls but the Bills had plenty of chances to win and per usual over the past 25 yrs they choked.

The Bills last team that wasnt a choker was 1965.

 

The most blatant instance where the Bills were really robbed was the 'just give it to them' game 1998.

[Doc]

The blindside block rule was instituted to prevent players who can't see a block coming from getting destroyed.  The Texans player both saw Ford coming and wasn't contacted any harder than on any other play.  The refs should have conferred, like they did on the endzone fumble play, and overturned it based on common sense.  But since we're going by the letter of the law, I'll take the endzone fumble at the 7 points and the Bills win in regulation.

 

Edited April 12, 2020 by Doc

[YattaOkasan]

1 hour ago, ScottLaw said:

I've been having this discussion since the game.... fans just like to blame refs for everything. It was absolutely a penalty but not sure why I keep trying to convince fans who won't be convinced. As I said Spain got away with a blatant hold earlier in the drive.... refs didn't lose the game for the Bills, the Bills lost it all on their own. Mental mistakes all around lost the game. 

Would you concede that if we’re going just by text book (again I’m not sold this block is as textbook as you say) then they should have absolutely have applied the textbook consistently and given us the TD in the kickoff?  Then we’re not talking about this block or a Spain hold.
 

I think yeah the bills could’ve played better but the refs did affect the outcome of the game with their inconsistent officiating.

 

As for on to the next game we’re 1) fans so focusing on the last game doesn’t hurt anything 2) this isn’t the regular season so there isn’t a next game. 

[MJS]

21 minutes ago, YattaOkasan said:

Would you concede that if we’re going just by text book (again I’m not sold this block is as textbook as you say) then they should have absolutely have applied the textbook consistently and given us the TD in the kickoff?  Then we’re not talking about this block or a Spain hold.
 

I think yeah the bills could’ve played better but the refs did affect the outcome of the game with their inconsistent officiating.

 

As for on to the next game we’re 1) fans so focusing on the last game doesn’t hurt anything 2) this isn’t the regular season so there isn’t a next game. 

It should have been a safety, I believe. An illegal forward pass in the end zone is a safety, I think.

 

And yes, officials should always go by the text book for every call because that's their job. Although I think the rules need to change somewhat so that players are allowed to play a little more.

Edited April 12, 2020 by MJS

[fan_in_tx]

39 minutes ago, Tcali said:

there are very very few games where you can blame officiating for really costing you a game.

Yes there are bad calls but the Bills had plenty of chances to win and per usual over the past 25 yrs they choked.

The Bills last team that wasnt a choker was 1965.

 

The most blatant instance where the Bills were really robbed was the 'just give it to them' game 1998.

I will never forget that game to this day ... .Watching it on tv it was so obvious he was out of bounds an short of the first down.   You didn't need Hi Def to see that .. it was so obvious.

 

[Mat68]

They had plays to win the game.  They didnt make them.

[DuckyBoys]

16 hours ago, Chemical said:

It was heartbreaking. But let’s not forget the mistakes made by the coaching staff. Also, Josh threw a pick six that was dropped by Houston. 
 

I feel like the team plays better when the score is very close or they are slightly behind. 
 

there’s no denying that when McDermott’s Bills are leading they act like they are trying to run the clock out no matter how much time is remaining 

yep how many games have we watched of "lets not lose the game football"  If the Bills are ever going to win the big game they need the killer instinct

[njbuff]

4 hours ago, Seasons1992 said:

 

This is the most positive thing I've ever seen written on TBD. Brilliant!

 

I am a beacon of positivity.

 

?

[Coach126]

Agree with all these points. And it does still hurt. But look at the trajectory of the two clubs now. We've got Diggs and a club on the rise. They have BOB. What do you call a guy in the ocean with no arms or legs? TEX.

...

And I agree the "just give it to them" game was the worst. I called and got on the Jim Rome show after that one. Romey agreed with my take that the Bills got jobbed. Have not respected the Cheatriots for one day since then.

[Another Fan]

3 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

Only the losers B word about bad calls because they’re the only ones looking for them.  The winners are on to the next game.  Few notice the calls - whether they’re good, bad, questionable or just properly enforced bad rules - when they go for them.  They only dissect them when they don’t and they lose.

Yeah.

 

Probably an unpopular opinion as well around here but the Bills aren’t going into Kansas City the next weekend and beating the Chiefs.

 

Its all moot to me 

Edited April 12, 2020 by Another Fan

[LABILLBACKER]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

The blindside block rule was instituted to prevent players who can't see a block coming from getting destroyed.  The Texans player both saw Ford coming and wasn't contacted any harder than on any other play.  The refs should have conferred, like they did on the endzone fumble play, and overturned it based on common sense.  But since we're going by the letter of the law, I'll take the endzone fumble at the 7 points and the Bills win in regulation.

 

Exactly, in order to be a blindside block the player actually has to be blindsided. Not only was this block not egregious but the block itself was mild. The rule is just as stupid as the Tuck rule.

[DuckyBoys]

There were some calls but honestly the Bills still had every chance to come out of there with the win.  I rewatched it just now and its amazing how poor the defense was in the red zone giving up the two pointers with ease.  Also how little separation there was.  How little Gore had left to give.    We sure could have used Diggs in that game.  Josh really needs to focus on being aware of defenders when he's running with the football.  I hope we get a 2020 season.

[Bulldog]

1 hour ago, Coach126 said:

Agree with all these points. And it does still hurt. But look at the trajectory of the two clubs now. We've got Diggs and a club on the rise. They have BOB. What do you call a guy in the ocean with no arms or legs? TEX.

...

And I agree the "just give it to them" game was the worst. I called and got on the Jim Rome show after that one. Romey agreed with my take that the Bills got jobbed. Have not respected the Cheatriots for one day since then.

 

 Yeah - i know we should just let these things go & move on .... but certain games seem to stick with us no matter what. I still remember sitting in the stands at the home opener in 1979 just knowing that we were about to beat the Dolphins after a decade of futility and seeing Tom Dempsey (RIP) miss that "easy" game winning field goal. Some things are just hard to put out of your memory -- even after 41 years ...   

[Bob in STL]

Could be a turning point “lessons learned “ game.  We should have taken care of business in the red zone, then there would be no discussion about it.  
 

Thinking back to the Cleveland road game playoff loss, the Ronnie Harmon drop, that was a character builder for them. Let’s hope this one is too. 

Edited April 12, 2020 by Bob in STL

[Amaru523]

That touchback nonsense bothers me the most.  I mean, when does the NFL EVER use common sense to determine a play?  If they're going to start using "common sense", then they're gonna open up a whole new can of worms each week.  Did they use "common sense" when DeSean Jackson dropped the ball, he obviously didn't mean to do that. The Bills could've done a lot of things better, but the refs didn't help the situation at all.

[Doc]

3 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

No I wouldn’t.

 

The guy clearly conceded the kick off for a touchback. That would’ve been the most ridiculous(and cheap) playoff call in the history of the sport.

 

He didn't clearly do anything but fumble the ball.  And it would have been no more cheap than the Ford call.  Letter of the law.  Can't have it both ways.

[Doc]

1 minute ago, ScottLaw said:

? he tossed the ball and walked away. Clearly conceding the TB. 
 

It would’ve been the most bull#### ridiculous call in the history of the league... hell, comparing that non play to Fords block in OT is ridiculous in its own right. 

 

There are procedures for giving yourself up.  He didn't follow them.  Therefore it was a fumble.  I couldn't care less how it would look because it would have been the correct call.  Instead some men in black jackets had to come onto the field and talk the refs into reversing it. 

 

Again Scott, letter of the law.  You can't have it both ways.

[Augie]

32 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

? he tossed the ball and walked away. Clearly conceding the TB. 
 

It would’ve been the most bull#### ridiculous call in the history of the league... hell, comparing that non play to Fords block in OT is ridiculous in its own right. 

 

That is the price for not knowing the rules and playing by them. There is no “too stupid excuse” and I don’t care what your intent was. I care what you do.  What if he didn’t mean to step out of bounds? He’s still OB! That's why they have a rule book. Period . Now, might you argue it’s an illegal forward pass in the end zone and a safety? IDK, but it was NOT a touchback. 

 

Having said that, I refuse to let this make me crazy. I’ll just hope it’s a step in the right direction for a young team learning how to win playoff games. 

 

 

.

Edited April 12, 2020 by Augie

[GoBills808]

3 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

That is the price for not knowing the rules and playing by them. There is no “too stupid excuse” and I don’t care what your intent was. I care what you do. That's why they have a rule book. Period . Now, might you argue it’s an illegal forward pass in the end zone and a safety? IDK, but it was NOT a touchback. 

Why do I have a feeling if that was Roberts vs the Patriots people would have said ‘Belichick teaches his guys to know the rules’?

 

Our return guys knew exactly what happened. So did the ref. Very, very easy call and not at all controversial to rule in our favor. 

[fan_in_tx]

47 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

No I wouldn’t.

 

The guy clearly conceded the kick off for a touchback. That would’ve been the most ridiculous(and cheap) playoff call in the history of the sport.

Really? Ask the Raiders about that and the tuck rule.