Dion Dawkins or Matt Milano

[MJS]

My heart says Milano but my head says Dawkins. Honestly we should resign both.

[MJS]

12 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

I am really curious about Milano’s value. He’s a great player and I love the guy. He’s just smallish for a lot of schemes. As of right now 2021 UFA is pretty stacked off ball linebacker wise with Lavonte David, KJ Wright, Demario Davis, Anthony Walker, Denzel Perryman. Its so hard to place that position and there is a lot of variation. Like a guy like Nick Kwiatoski got 7 million a year while Nick Vigil got 1 year 2.4 million dollar deal. I feel like they are comparable players. 
 

Milano’s closest comp size wise is Kwon Alexander, and he makes 13.5 million per year. Or a guy like Deion Jones at 14 million. Is Milano really on that level? I feel like he is closer to a 6-8 million dollar a year type of player. I think he is a must sign, but you never know when someone comes calling with bags of money. 

I think Milano is worth at least 12 million a year. There is no chance he'll sign for 6-8. He plays at a pro bowl level even if he hasn't gotten that recognition yet at the national level.

 

EDIT: Just looked it up and Spotrac values him at 13 million a year, which would make him the 7th highest paid OLB. Looks right to me.

1 hour ago, GreggTX said:

They're both very average starters, but LB's are so much easier to replace and OT's are more valuable. I like Milano, but I'd have to go with Dawkins here.

Dawkins is average but Milano is definately above average and he'll get paid like it. But if I had to choose one it would be Dawkins because oline, especially left tackle, is more important and more difficult to keep strong.

[blacklabel]

I like Milano, I think he's solid and has a knack for creating turnovers. Defense in '18 looked different without him. However, with McDermott being a defense guy, he'd have an easier time replacing Milano than he would Dawkins. Plus, Dion's a captain/team leader. 

[Bronxbomber21]

Both

[MrEpsYtown]

35 minutes ago, MJS said:

I think Milano is worth at least 12 million a year. There is no chance he'll sign for 6-8. He plays at a pro bowl level even if he hasn't gotten that recognition yet at the national level.

 

EDIT: Just looked it up and Spotrac values him at 13 million a year, which would make him the 7th highest paid OLB. Looks right to me.

Dawkins is average but Milano is definately above average and he'll get paid like it. But if I had to choose one it would be Dawkins because oline, especially left tackle, is more important and more difficult to keep strong.

Thanks for the response. I love Milano, but that market value just seems high to me. I’m super curious what the demand will be. Is he really the 7th best 4-3 OLB linebacker in the league? I’m not sure. I hope we resign him, whatever the cost is, but I’m interested to see how it plays out. 

[Bferra13]

8 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Not a huge Milano fan. Too small and struggles sometimes in tackling. Watching him bounce off Watson made me sick. Give me Dawkins every day. 

 

I agree with this... but in fairness, pretty sure hughes screwed the pooch on a game changing sack on Watson too. Could be wrong though.

[Formerly Allan in MD]

Dawkins, hands down.

[clearwater cadet]

Lately Milano is a tackling missing machine.

[billsbackto81]

2 hours ago, Cal said:

I think Milano is more valuable 

I think he's a better LB than Dawkins is an LT.  Milano has the skill set to thrive in McD 's scheme due to instinct and coverage abilities but he's not a thumper.   Unfortunately it doesn't mean he'll take priority. Having a competent LT is far more valuable unless that LB is a Ray Lewis or Patrick Willis or a player of that ilk which Milano is obviously not.

[Paup 1995MVP]

Wow the love Dion Dawkins gets on this message board is unbelievable.  Do any of you think he is really that good?  Maybe my expectations are too high.  But I just don't see him manhandling defenders on a regular basis.  And DE's seem to get around him pretty regularly.  He doesn't suck.  But paying him $15 mill with a bunch of guaranteed money just doesn't seem right to me.  Dude does not seem to play with a mean streak, just beating the snot out of guys.  Seems almost too nice. (I guess I am still living in the world of the 1970's and 80's Oakland Raiders-just mean bad ass dudes.  The world of Darryl Talley and Leonard Smith)  

 

I like Milano.  But he is not a thumper.  But he does make plays.  I would offer him 4 years 35 mill if the Bills want to keep him.  Noone is paying him more then that.  If AJ Klein got 3 years and 18 million, Milano is not worth a whole lot more.  

[Freddie's Dead]

COOKIE!!  NOMNOMNOM.....

 

[MJS]

3 hours ago, MrEpsYtown said:

Thanks for the response. I love Milano, but that market value just seems high to me. I’m super curious what the demand will be. Is he really the 7th best 4-3 OLB linebacker in the league? I’m not sure. I hope we resign him, whatever the cost is, but I’m interested to see how it plays out. 

He may not be the 7th best, but it's his turn to get paid, so he will be. And in a couple years he will be paid average starter money.

[NoName]

19 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

not really debatable imo

 

Dawkins plays a way more important position and he's better at it than Milano is at LB

I don't know about Dawkins being better at his position then Milano is at his.  I think they both are even at their position.  One question we might want to ask is, could we keep Milano and upgrade the LT position?

[Dkollidas]

I haven’t seen much, but Milano played safety in college so my question would be if Chinn or Dugger could be drafted as a Milano replacement? 

[Valeria]

Matt Milano

[GoBills808]

2 hours ago, NoName said:

I don't know about Dawkins being better at his position then Milano is at his.  I think they both are even at their position.  One question we might want to ask is, could we keep Milano and upgrade the LT position?

Dawkins is an above average LT. Milano at this point is replacement level.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2020/4/9/21208603/buffalo-bills-interested-in-extending-lb-matt-milano-lt-dion-dawkins

Buffalo Bills interested in extending LB Matt Milano, LT Dion Dawkins

 

“In my perfect world, guys like Matt and Dion, I would love to get them extended here long term on what I call is a win-win. A win for the Bills and a win for those guys’ person, said Beane. “We’ve obviously invested a lot [in them]. They were drafted here in ‘17. And again, the guys that fit like they do; fit the DNA, show the physical skill sets, and bring what they bring, you’d love to [give them new contracts].”

Beane didn’t mention if he had begun contract negotiations with either player, but his next line could give an indication.

 

 

It won’t be cheap for either of them.........

[DrDawkinstein]

1 hour ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said:

https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2020/4/9/21208603/buffalo-bills-interested-in-extending-lb-matt-milano-lt-dion-dawkins

Buffalo Bills interested in extending LB Matt Milano, LT Dion Dawkins

 

Figured that would get posted here sooner or later. The article is a whole lot of nothin.

 

It's also tough to gauge the true market for OLBs since Spotrac and other sources list a lot of high-paid pass-rushing DEs as "OLB" since they play in a 3-4.

 

I think his projection for Milano at $12M/yr is way high. Unless Milano has an amaaaazing season (which wouldnt be the worst thing in the world).

 

Other than that, there is no news in this article. No confirmations on whether Beane has even tried starting extension talks or not.

[AlCowlingsTaxiService]

I like Milano but LT is one of the most critical positions on an NFL roster so Mr Mac & Cheese gets the nod IMO

[Johnny Hammersticks]

Man, I was watching the reply of the Texans playoff loss last night, and Milano was just an animal out there.  He was just a constant nuisance...especially in the 1st half.  I’d like to see him get an extension.

[RobbRiddicksTDLeap]

I went with Milano. I’m a Defense first guy, and the franchise has had poor LB’s for years before McBeane arrived. Milano is a good player, who can be had for a reasonable price. He’s made tremendous strides over the past 2 seasons, and does a very good job in coverage. 
 

Dawkins is a good LT, but he’s not worth what he will be looking to be paid. He has lapses of judgement that are head scratchers, and can disappear from the run game. 
 

In real, life i hope they can sign them both, as i don’t want holes to be filled anymore. I’d like some consistency that isn’t ruled by money. 

[nucci]

On 4/3/2020 at 1:51 PM, elijah said:

 

I’m worried about Dion’s contract because whatever it is I feel it’ll be overpaid, but there’s some positions that you’ll have to overpay for and LT ultimately is one of those. 

 

And if you have a second, I would take a look at the excel sheet or even just glance at Spotrac yourself.  The rebuild is just about over and the cap is going to start tightening up in the coming years, while there’s ways to make it work, Beane can’t afford to be as loose with the salary as he’s been moving forward.  Players need to get paid (White, Milano, Dawkins, Edmunds, Allen, Feliciano, etc.) and I know people here aren’t too big on looking forward, but you’ve got to have long term plans so you can re-sign these guys when the time comes. Part of those long-term plans might be to let a Milano walk do you have the cap to re-sign an Edmunds in the future. 

Any time a player signs a contract someone will say we overpaid. 

[MAJBobby]

LT >>>>>>>>> WLB

[billsfan89]

On 4/3/2020 at 12:24 PM, atlbillsfan1975 said:

Dawkins and it isn’t close. 
Im going to say unless Milano will take $8 mil or less, which I doubt, he is gone. Already starting to see him get dinged. Milano is an undersized LB who plays with heart and above his physical talent level. I don’t think his body will hold up. 

 

I would be willing to go a bit more for Milano if the contract is easy to get out of after 2 years. 9ish million with 20 guaranteed seems fair for both sides. 

[Buddo]

LT's do not grow on trees. You either have one, or you don't.

 

LBs are an awful lot easier to replace, either by another guy, or through scheme.

 

I like both Dawkins and Milano. Both will hopefully get re-signed.

 

No idea what the 'price' might be for Dawkins, especially with Tunsil getting ready to gash the Texans, but the 'projected' cost of $12 million per for Milano I don't think I would pay.

 

As others have pointed out, Milano does get dinged up. Dawkins a lot less so. The old adage still rings true, that the mvps on a team, are those guys who are available come Sundays.

 

As regards the LT position, the Bills have only had 3 who could be called decent to good, in the last approximately 20 years. Peters, Glenn and Dawkins. In those 20 (approximayely) years, they have had loads of LBs who would be called decent to good. Now, no doubt there could be huge arguments over the how and why of this (i.e. the inability to find good LTs) over that time period, but the fact remains, getting a decent to good LT has proven to be a lot harder than finding decent to good LBs.

[GunnerBill]

On 4/4/2020 at 5:10 AM, Paup 1995MVP said:

Wow the love Dion Dawkins gets on this message board is unbelievable.  Do any of you think he is really that good?  Maybe my expectations are too high.  But I just don't see him manhandling defenders on a regular basis.  And DE's seem to get around him pretty regularly.  He doesn't suck.  But paying him $15 mill with a bunch of guaranteed money just doesn't seem right to me.  Dude does not seem to play with a mean streak, just beating the snot out of guys.  Seems almost too nice. (I guess I am still living in the world of the 1970's and 80's Oakland Raiders-just mean bad ass dudes.  The world of Darryl Talley and Leonard Smith)  

 

I like Milano.  But he is not a thumper.  But he does make plays.  I would offer him 4 years 35 mill if the Bills want to keep him.  Noone is paying him more then that.  If AJ Klein got 3 years and 18 million, Milano is not worth a whole lot more.  

 

Dawkins second half of 2019 was excellent. He was one of the best players on the team after the bye. I think he is somewhere between 10th and 15th best left tackle in the league and it is a position you just can't be without. I'd pay him $15m a year and while it would look expensive for a year or so it would look a bargain by year 3. 

On 4/4/2020 at 5:39 PM, GoBills808 said:

Dawkins is an above average LT. Milano at this point is replacement level.

 

Sadly on 2019 form I agree on Milano. He is a starting calibre player. But not a guy you pay to keep. If he rebounds to his 2018 form then it becomes a different argument but setting the market close to Deion Jones would still seem off to me..

[atlbillsfan1975]

9 hours ago, billsfan89 said:

 

I would be willing to go a bit more for Milano if the contract is easy to get out of after 2 years. 9ish million with 20 guaranteed seems fair for both sides. 

I want to see what happens this year. Let’s see how Matt plays, does he stay healthy and  do the Bills have another option now or after the draft.

[SCBills]

Dawkins is an above average, durable LT, that is still young.  
 

It would be absolute insanity to not lock him up.  
 

Milano is very good, but you don’t pay the very good LB at the expense of the talented LT, especially when you have a potential future All-Pro already at the LB position. 
 

Edited April 11, 2020 by SCBills

[Paup 1995MVP]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Dawkins second half of 2019 was excellent. He was one of the best players on the team after the bye. I think he is somewhere between 10th and 15th best left tackle in the league and it is a position you just can't be without. I'd pay him $15m a year and while it would look expensive for a year or so it would look a bargain by year 3. 

 

Sadly on 2019 form I agree on Milano. He is a starting calibre player. But not a guy you pay to keep. If he rebounds to his 2018 form then it becomes a different argument but setting the market close to Deion Jones would still seem off to me..

Well I hope Dawkins comes out this year and plays like the dominant left tackle a lot of you think he is.  If so, he should be paid as such.  I would just not jump the gun on him is all.  We can always wait til after next season before free agency starts in 2021.  I know he could test the mkt, but with such a big contract at stake, I am not sure you rush into it.  Want to see a dominant year out of him.  Then you can pull up the Brinks truck.

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Paup 1995MVP said:

Well I hope Dawkins comes out this year and plays like the dominant left tackle a lot of you think he is.  If so, he should be paid as such.  I would just not jump the gun on him is all.  We can always wait til after next season before free agency starts in 2021.  I know he could test the mkt, but with such a big contract at stake, I am not sure you rush into it.  Want to see a dominant year out of him.  Then you can pull up the Brinks truck.

 

I don't think he is dominant. I think he is pretty good. The problem is in the NFL there are few positions where a guy who is just a bit below average can lose you a game and left tackle is one of them. So you can't afford to say "I am only going to pay for dominant." You have to pay the pretty good guys too. Otherwise you end up with the revolving door of ineptitude the Bills had for most of the 00s. 

[dollars 2 donuts]

Draft a LT high and keep Milano.  Not judging, it is just me.

 

In my opinion, can you replace a LB?  Yes.  Is Milano more of a difference making player than Dawkins is on this team, that must continue to value the defense that it has?  Yes...by a wide margin Milano is better at what he does than what Dawkins does at his position.

[below]

On 4/3/2020 at 6:46 PM, matter2003 said:

They will easily be able to retain both. Wait til you see what the cap goes to after the new TV deals. Increases of at least 30-50 million per team.

 

You know that it increases for EVERY team right...

 

Which drives the prices up.

[SCBills]

19 minutes ago, dollars 2 donuts said:

Draft a LT high and keep Milano.  Not judging, it is just me.

 

In my opinion, can you replace a LB?  Yes.  Is Milano more of a difference making player than Dawkins is on this team, that must continue to value the defense that it has?  Yes...by a wide margin Milano is better at what he does than what Dawkins does at his position.

I think you say this, because Dawkins is pretty good...  

 

You forget what it’s like to have a subpar LT.   Ask Jets fans if they’d rather have a solid LT or CJ Moseley... CJ Moseley is a better LB than Matt Milano, but it doesn’t matter much when your QB is under constant assault or you have to go max protect on anything deep.  

[GunnerBill]

26 minutes ago, SCBills said:

I think you say this, because Dawkins is pretty good...  

 

You forget what it’s like to have a subpar LT.   Ask Jets fans if they’d rather have a solid LT or CJ Moseley... CJ Moseley is a better LB than Matt Milano, but it doesn’t matter much when your QB is under constant assault or you have to go max protect on anything deep.  

 

The only positions where having "below average" can lose you a game is Quarterback, left tackle and corner. You are below average at any other spot you can cover it up as long as you are good around them. Even edge rush the Bills showed that last year. But if you are below average at left tackle, QB or corner (particularly your top corner spot covering their best guy) then it will lose you games. 

[Jerboski]

Dawkins for sure... plays a premium position, and showed good growth last year 

 

I like Milano but a good LT trumps and outside linebacker all the time, every time unless your name is lawrence taylor

[C.Biscuit97]

I love Milano.  Right now, he is a better player than Dawkins.  But LTs are a million times harder to find than OLB, which is probably one of the Easy positions to find in football, especially if you have a good d line.  So I would lean towards Dawkins provide he continues progressing.  I also worry about Milano holding up long term physically.  I know there are new breeds of LBs but it’s still a very physical position and he is a smaller guy there.

[dollars 2 donuts]

1 hour ago, SCBills said:

I think you say this, because Dawkins is pretty good...  

 

You forget what it’s like to have a subpar LT.   Ask Jets fans if they’d rather have a solid LT or CJ Moseley... CJ Moseley is a better LB than Matt Milano, but it doesn’t matter much when your QB is under constant assault or you have to go max protect on anything deep.  

 

sc, I up thumbed your because it is a great point.  However, it was not my motivation.  I like Dawkins and he is good.

 

However, Milano is on track and at times has been an exceptional, player on a defense that relies upon such play.  When he is out, this defense isn’t the same, even as good as it is.  
 

I think throughout this thread I am a little surprised at how undervalued Milano seems to be, considering how valuable most of us honestly think he is to this defense.

 

Even if Dawkins were to go down this year and they didn’t draft his replacement This year I am willing to live with what we have for the remainder of the season.

 

I don’t feel the same way about losing Milano.  Losing him for any length of time will be a problem.

 

I stand by what I said. If we have to pick a LT in the first round of 2021, I’m fine with that.  
 

I would keep Milano.  Again, and obviously, that appears to be just a few of us.

Edited April 11, 2020 by dollars 2 donuts

[GunnerBill]

36 minutes ago, dollars 2 donuts said:

 

Even if Dawkins were to go down this year and they didn’t draft his replacement This year I am willing to live with what we have for the remainder of the season.

 

To me he is 3rd behind only Tre and Josh Allen in guys we can't afford to lose. 

[FireChans]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

To me he is 3rd behind only Tre and Josh Allen in guys we can't afford to lose. 

Not Hyde?!!

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Not Hyde?!!

 

I'd have Hyde and Edmunds 4th and 5th. I just don't know who plays left tackle if Dawkins goes down and if you are bad there it wrecks games. I know some folks like Nsekhe. I have never particularly been one dating back to his Redskins days.