GunnerBill Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 44 minutes ago, Shaw66 said: Who in their right mind would trade Watson? Have you met Bill O'Brien? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdrought Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 43 minutes ago, Shaw66 said: Who in their right mind would trade Watson? Precisely. I expect this to happen. It makes sense for BOB. Trade Watson, get fired midseason, go to Ne to replace McDaniels and become the heir apparent! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 (edited) 10 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: So we know for certain there is some sort of check in place on any/all trades GMs want to make? And for WEO, my premise is based on the assumption BOB is already on the hotseat at that point and assumes he is going to be fired either way. GM reports to someone. I also feel like you would need approval of like.. at least one of these guys below or the owner. They probably went through with the hopkins move for a few reasons - cap space for one, and hopkins may have been more of a problem than they are letting on. Who knows. But there's a 0% chance they trade him. Why create future cap space for watson only to trade him. It doesn't make sense. President – Jamey Rootes Executive vice president of football operations – Jack Easterby Director of football operations – Clay Hampton Director of college scouting – James Lipfert Director of pro personnel – Rob Kisiel Edited March 25, 2020 by dneveu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kwai San Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 36 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: That's the point. If the Texans have a bad year, and BOB finds himself on the hotseat, he'll trade Watson to the Pats, and then go work for the Pats next year. NOT with BB in charge he won't..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 30 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: Can Houston Ownership petition the league to annul the trade? Is there any precedent for the NFL stepping in and stopping trades? Let alone reversing them? Houston ownership would step in before any Watson trade would occur. Next... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 2 minutes ago, Kwai San said: NOT with BB in charge he won't..... Could very well be BB's last year as well. They move McDaniels to HC, and BOB to OC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan4 Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 Personally, I think Belichick is going to try and develop another mid round QB (either Stidham or someone they draft in the 2nd, 3rd, etc. maybe late 1st at best). I think he might want to prove that he doesn’t need a QB that was a top 10 pick in the draft to win. It would cement his legacy if he’s able to develop another mid/late round QB and continue winning. I also don’t see them tanking. It would destroy that whole “patriot way” culture he’s built (where everyone is asked to sacrifice whatever it takes to win) and people would be saying “see, Brady Was the reason for the dynasty!”. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 1 minute ago, Lurker said: Houston ownership would step in before any Watson trade would occur. Next... I'm waiting for someone to give a definitive answer that ownership is always involved in every trade made in the NFL. So far, everyone here has said "I'd think", or "I feel", or the like. No one has been able to tell me "Yes, when a GM files a trade with the league, there is a paper the owner needs to sign to approve it". For all we know, GMs have the authority to wheel and deal autonomously. 7 minutes ago, dneveu said: GM reports to someone. I also feel like you would need approval of like.. at least one of these guys below or the owner. I feel like that too, but so far we havent received that confirmation from anyone who definitely knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 19 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: Yeah, that's a part of what I'm wondering and truly dont know. Do owners have to literally sign paperwork to file with the league in order to make trades happen? Or can GMs basically do what they want? Technically the person who has contractually been given control of the roster has the authority to do as they please. Some teams don’t have anyone with that. Dallas, for instance, where Jerruh is the GM. I’m sure there are others. The big caveat is that in the vast majority of cases the person with roster control is expected to consult with ownership before major or controversial moves. Big trades of important players and/or picks are sure on that list. Adding a player with DV incidents is another example. But that’s on a team by team basis. Every team would have its own rules. Trading away the starting QB and face of the franchise would have to be cleared by ownership in basically every case if it’s not something that the GM contractually has to do. Otherwise that GM would be treading into some seriously dangerous territory. I’m not sure what constitutes firing an NFL coach with just cause (so the contract can be terminated rather than paid out), but an owner might be looking to see if something the HC did qualifies if he’s pulling crap like that without approval. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 1 minute ago, DrDawkinstein said: I'm waiting for someone to give a definitive answer that ownership is always involved in every trade made in the NFL. So far, everyone here has said "I'd think", or "I feel", or the like. No one has been able to tell me "Yes, when a GM files a trade with the league, there is a paper the owner needs to sign to approve it". For all we know, GMs have the authority to wheel and deal autonomously. I feel like that too, but so far we havent received that confirmation from anyone who definitely knows. Feel free to go figure it out ? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCOrange Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 If O'Brien wanted to help New England, he would have sent Hopkins there instead of taking peanuts from Arizona to get him out of the AFC. And Watson might be the only person Houston's owners love more than O'Brien. They'd veto any Watson deal, especially one that sends him to New England. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOUSE Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 (edited) Edited March 25, 2020 by HOUSE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 1 minute ago, BarleyNY said: Technically the person who has contractually been given control of the roster has the authority to do as they please. Some teams don’t have anyone with that. Dallas, for instance, where Jerruh is the GM. I’m sure there are others. The big caveat is that in the vast majority of cases the person with roster control is expected to consult with ownership before major or controversial moves. Big trades of important players and/or picks are sure on that list. Adding a player with DV incidents is another example. But that’s on a team by team basis. Every team would have its own rules. Trading away the starting QB and face of the franchise would have to be cleared by ownership in basically every case if it’s not something that the GM contractually has to do. Otherwise that GM would be treading into some seriously dangerous territory. I’m not sure what constitutes firing an NFL coach with just cause (so the contract can be terminated rather than paid out), but an owner might be looking to see if something the HC did qualifies if he’s pulling crap like that without approval. "Expected to consult" still doesnt give me the answer I'm looking for that "NO WAY this can happen since the owner MUST approve it". Going off your first sentence, it would seem BOB could make the trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 22 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: Yeah, that's a part of what I'm wondering and truly dont know. Do owners have to literally sign paperwork to file with the league in order to make trades happen? Or can GMs basically do what they want? The GMs ultimately work for the owners. It’s like any other job. You probably have the authority to make minor decisions without running it through ownership. I’ll use the Bills as an example. I’m not sure that the Bills needed Pegula’s approval to bring in Kaare Vidvek. The Bills would absolutely need the Pegula’s approval to trade Josh. There’s no way BOB could deal Watson without ownership. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 1 minute ago, dneveu said: Feel free to go figure it out ? I'm tryin! I know Im splitting hairs, but Im on Day 14 of quarantine and really bored. Plus, Im interested in how this all works behind the scenes. And whether we can simply dismiss ideas like this. Surpisingly, I havent been able to find anyone who can tell me "NO this isnt possible because ownership must sign off". And the more I pry, the more it looks like he totally could make that trade if he wanted and didnt care about keeping his job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 56 minutes ago, Shaw66 said: Who in their right mind would trade Watson? The same guy that traded the best WR in football for a handful of Vicodin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mango Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 Unpopular opinion alert Honestly, I will be pissed if this happened and Buffalo did not at leastt inquire. Josh might be better down the line, but Watson is a stud right now at a similar age. This is a SB team with Watson right now. I would trade Josh and a 1st in a heart beat. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardhatharry Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 More likely BOB is the one that will be pushed out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: The GMs ultimately work for the owners. It’s like any other job. You probably have the authority to make minor decisions without running it through ownership. I’ll use the Bills as an example. I’m not sure that the Bills needed Pegula’s approval to bring in Kaare Vidvek. The Bills would absolutely need the Pegula’s approval to trade Josh. There’s no way BOB could deal Watson without ownership. Finally, the guy Ive been waiting for! How does that work tho? To use your analogy, I can make pricing decisions for minor and even major deals in my job. Since I want to keep my job, I consult with my bosses or other people on major decisions or when I need to step out of our usual boundaries. But if I didnt care about keeping my job, I could totally make decisions they wouldnt approve of and get them under contracts before they could do anything about it. What process would stop BOB from making the deal? When you say "The Bills would absolutely need the Pegula’s approval to trade Josh." How so? And as in, need Pegulas approval to complete the trade? Or need Pegulas approval in order to keep their job? Edited March 25, 2020 by DrDawkinstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyBatty is alive Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 35 minutes ago, Johnny Hammersticks said: I can’t even imagine the draft capital it would take for NE to get Watson away from Houston. It would have to be at least 3 1st rounders plus... No shot. I would give up 3 1sts and 3 2nds for Watson if i could lock him up, esp if i am the Pats. Imagine the Pats with Watson, wow, q mobile QB in New England. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundancer Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 If this happens, I'm going to start licking every handrail in NYC. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Junction Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 7 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: I'm tryin! I know Im splitting hairs, but Im on Day 14 of quarantine and really bored. Plus, Im interested in how this all works behind the scenes. And whether we can simply dismiss ideas like this. Surpisingly, I havent been able to find anyone who can tell me "NO this isnt possible because ownership must sign off". And the more I pry, the more it looks like he totally could make that trade if he wanted and didnt care about keeping his job. I’d imagine that the optics and intentions matter. I can’t see the NFL allowing the trade to go through if the owner makes a public statement lambasting BOB. Imagine the public reaction and ***** show if the owner made an announcement that BOB made the trade after leaked info about him being fired... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Boo Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 1 hour ago, Shaw66 said: Who in their right mind would trade Watson? Funny you should ask... And he'd probably do it for N'Keal Harry and a bottle of hand sanitizer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 (edited) 15 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: "Expected to consult" still doesnt give me the answer I'm looking for that "NO WAY this can happen since the owner MUST approve it". Going off your first sentence, it would seem BOB could make the trade. I’ve been digging a bit. Most teams have a GM or HC who has a contract provision giving them roster control and I do not believe that can have exceptions, even for a QB.* But here’s the kicker, BOB didn’t have that provision when he became HC in Houston. The GM did. BOB was given control of personnel after the GM was fired, but that doesn’t mean he had his contract amended. So I guess my answer is that without seeing his contract we don’t know. * Again, that doesn’t mean that it wouldn’t get someone fired. Edited March 25, 2020 by BarleyNY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warcodered Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 Just now, BarleyNY said: I’ve been digging a bit. Most teams have a GM or HC who has a contract provision giving them roster control and I do not believe that can have exceptions, even for a QB. But here’s the kicker, BOB didn’t have that provision when he became HC in Houston. The GM did. BOB was given control of personnel after the GM was fired, but that doesn’t mean he had his contract amended. So I guess my answer is that without seeing his contract we don’t know. It might be more of any sane GM would run major trades by the owner so they don't get blindsided by their reaction probably wouldn't apply in this situation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 3 minutes ago, BarleyNY said: I’ve been digging a bit. Most teams have a GM or HC who has a contract provision giving them roster control and I do not believe that can have exceptions, even for a QB.* But here’s the kicker, BOB didn’t have that provision when he became HC in Houston. The GM did. BOB was given control of personnel after the GM was fired, but that doesn’t mean he had his contract amended. So I guess my answer is that without seeing his contract ... we don’t know. * Again, that doesn’t mean that it wouldn’t get someone fired. All that just to blue-ball me again! ? haha, thanks for trying to research. so until we get a definitive answer, I'm going to assume this could happen. 6 minutes ago, Buffalo Junction said: I’d imagine that the optics and intentions matter. I can’t see the NFL allowing the trade to go through if the owner makes a public statement lambasting BOB. Imagine the public reaction and ***** show if the owner made an announcement that BOB made the trade after leaked info about him being fired... I would think the same thing. But has the league ever stepped in and stopped a trade before? I know it's happened in the NBA. I know the NFL "unofficially" did it to the Raiders back in the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 1 minute ago, Warcodered said: It might be more of any sane GM would run major trades by the owner so they don't get blindsided by their reaction probably wouldn't apply in this situation. I agree. I was more interested in whether BOB could be fired “with cause” for trading Watson. That would mean he wouldn’t get paid through 2022 like he would if he was fired in the usual manner. 4 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: All that just to blue-ball me again! ? haha, thanks for trying to research. so until we get a definitive answer, I'm going to assume this could happen. I would think the same thing. But has the league ever stepped in and stopped a trade before? I know it's happened in the NBA. I know the NFL "unofficially" did it to the Raiders back in the day. So sorry, man! I hate to do that to ya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rochesterfan Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 1 hour ago, DrDawkinstein said: This rumor started on the day BOB traded away Hopkins. The idea is that BOB will trade Watson to the Pats closer to the deadline, and when O'Brien is fired from Houston this year, he'll have a job waiting for him in NE. There is a lot of tin-foil hat conspiracy theory in that, but I wouldnt rule out anything when it comes to BOB's bad ideas and the Patriots making their own loophole to landing a top QB. That's the point. If the Texans have a bad year, and BOB finds himself on the hotseat, he'll trade Watson to the Pats, and then go work for the Pats next year. This is about the dumbest thing I’ve heard. So BOB trades away Hopkins and in that vein ticked off Watson enough that Watson wants out. He trades Watson to NE for a song - which gets him fired. Then he gets a job in NE and now all of a sudden Watson is going to be fine with him. If Watson is traded to NE and BOB goes there - Watson is going to want to get away from NE. It just makes no sense at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheektowaga Chad Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 There was a joke going around that bill obrien would trade him to the pats and that he would get himself fired or quit the texans job. Just to be named head coach of the pats afterwards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buff76ers Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 If they traded away Watson then the GM and Coach would be fired on the spot and i don't think they will go that route IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mango Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 Just a thought. If this rumor is swirling on a BB forum, I would guarantee it has made it to the owner by now. Any inkling of this going down has most likely already been approved or smacked down at this point. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 I really hate this part of the off-season. It's when stupid rumors start swirling. There is no way Watson is traded, much less to New England. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 25 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: Finally, the guy Ive been waiting for! How does that work tho? To use your analogy, I can make pricing decisions for minor and even major deals in my job. Since I want to keep my job, I consult with my bosses or other people on major decisions or when I need to step out of our usual boundaries. But if I didnt care about keeping my job, I could totally make decisions they wouldnt approve of and get them under contracts before they could do anything about it. What process would stop BOB from making the deal? When you say "The Bills would absolutely need the Pegula’s approval to trade Josh." How so? And as in, need Pegulas approval to complete the trade? Or need Pegulas approval in order to keep their job? I don’t know the exact way it works but I can speak to the vetoed Chris Paul trade. That’s actually when I was working there so I know that one pretty well. David Stern didn’t step in as the Commissioner of the NBA but rather as the owner of the Pelicans. The league owned the team at this point. He didn’t do it in the best interest of the league but the Pelicans. I don’t know the specifics of the structure with the Texans. I just know the optics would be disastrous. The public backlash and cries of collusion would make O’Brien toxic (even to the Pats). He’d be committing career suicide (and that’s IF the Texans can’t step in). It just isn’t realistic that Watson can be traded without ownership on board. Now, O’Brien can lie and try to convince them that trading Watson is a good move. Maybe they will agree but I don’t think it’s possible to trade a franchise player, in any situation, without ownership approval. There are too many dominos tied to that player. The more likely scenario, IMO, would be O’Brien making Watson’s life miserable. He could try to force him out the door by just being an idiot. He’s off to a good start there. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 12 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said: This is about the dumbest thing I’ve heard. So BOB trades away Hopkins and in that vein ticked off Watson enough that Watson wants out. He trades Watson to NE for a song - which gets him fired. Then he gets a job in NE and now all of a sudden Watson is going to be fine with him. If Watson is traded to NE and BOB goes there - Watson is going to want to get away from NE. It just makes no sense at all. Bro, these are twitter rumors we're talking about. We could stop the conversation there if we were worried about "making sense". ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 2 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: I don’t know the exact way it works but I can speak to the vetoed Chris Paul trade. That’s actually when I was working there so I know that one pretty well. David Stern didn’t step in as the Commissioner of the NBA but rather as the owner of the Pelicans. The league owned the team at this point. He didn’t do it in the best interest of the league but the Pelicans. I don’t know the specifics of the structure with the Texans. I just know the optics would be disastrous. The public backlash and cries of collusion would make O’Brien toxic (even to the Pats). He’d be committing career suicide (and that’s IF the Texans can’t step in). It just isn’t realistic that Watson can be traded without ownership on board. Now, O’Brien can lie and try to convince them that trading Watson is a good move. Maybe they will agree but I don’t think it’s possible to trade a franchise player, in any situation, without ownership approval. There are too many dominos tied to that player. The more likely scenario, IMO, would be O’Brien making Watson’s life miserable. He could try to force him out the door by just being an idiot. He’s off to a good start there. This is exactly why I tagged you and summoned you to the thread Thanks! It's just really interesting to me how team offices and league offices work. It's why I will always watch every Hard Knocks or All or Nothing. The way these teams and businesses operate behind the scenes is enthralling. Especially when it comes to power-plays and power-struggles. So optics (and all reason) aside, it's possible BOB could trade Watson to NE, and the Texans ownership would have to step in after the trade goes down to petition the league to annul it? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 Just now, DrDawkinstein said: This is exactly why I tagged you and summoned you to the thread Thanks! It's just really interesting to me how team offices and league offices work. It's why I will always watch every Hard Knocks or All or Nothing. The way these teams and businesses operate behind the scenes is enthralling. Especially when it comes to power-plays and power-struggles. So optics (and all reason) aside, it's possible BOB could trade Watson to NE, and the Texans ownership would have to step in after the trade goes down to petition the league to annul it? Depending on how his contract works or Watson’s contract it may be possible IMO. I look at it as “possible” like a 1 point safety is possible. Technically, it could happen (maybe) but it won’t. If Watson leaves the Texans the ownership will have agreed to it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teddy KGB Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 Every time I tweet some supermodel in a bikini favorites it and then comes looking for my cash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 4 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: Depending on how his contract works or Watson’s contract it may be possible IMO. I look at it as “possible” like a 1 point safety is possible. Technically, it could happen (maybe) but it won’t. If Watson leaves the Texans the ownership will have agreed to it. For sure. I thought it was a load of (Mike) mularkey when I first heard it mentioned 2 weeks ago. But it is an interesting idea and something I wouldnt have thought of on my own. And I think, given all of our experiences with New England, nothing of this sort can be dismissed without a closer look. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 I like Watson fine but I don't fear him w/out Hopkins tbh 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paup 1995MVP Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 Ownership will always have the final say on a trade of this magnitude. But maybe the Texans don't love Desean Watson as much as a lot of you posters do. I think he is a talent, but the Bills absolutely wrecked him in both games we played them under McDermott. One terrible missed tackle in OT and lousy offense cost us more then anything in the playoff game. But it would be interesting to see what kind of a trade offer New England or any other team would offer the Texans for Watson. (Makes the offseason a whole lot more interesting) And for you older posters how about when Commissioner Bowie Kuhn would not allow Oakland A's owner Charlie Finley to sell off his great players from the 1970's Oakland A's because he was short on cash? That was something. He invoked his power for the "best interests of the game". And those A's teams who I believe won 3 staight world series from 72-74 were as talented a baseball team as any I can remember that excelled for more then one year, that I can remember. Awesome uniforms, mustaches and talent. Anyone know their entire starting lineup including their starting pitchers and relievers? I was in elementary school then. And I remember most of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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