How would you guys have felt if we had took Rosen instead of Allen

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Let me break this down slowly for you:  would rather play with the #2 defense that gives up 16 point/ game?  Or would you want to play with Miami’s last ranked defense which gave up 31 points/ game?  The less points your team allows, the easier it is to win.

 

for instance, if Mahomes didn’t play with a defense That gave up 26/ points a game in 2018, he has 2 rings.  He “lost” a game where his offense scored 51 points!  Allen has rarely had to win a game where the defense gives up 20 points. 

So you judge QBs by their wins, then? 

 

Because I seem to have read a novel's worth of complaining from your account re: Allen's stats.

[C.Biscuit97]

7 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

Not as much pressure to win the game on their own to start. It’s a lot easier to settle down and run your offense and take what the D gives you when your D isn’t allowing 30 ppg.

 

Down 14 in the 4th Q and down 4 in the 4th Q are much different animals.

I pointed this out before but Mark Sanchez had 5 game winning drives one year.  He sucks but because he was with a good defense, he had more chances for comebacks.  
 

 

Just now, GoBills808 said:

So you judge QBs by their wins, then? 

 

Because I seem to have read a novel's worth of complaining from your account re: Allen's stats.

I have no idea what you’re saying.  You are very emotional defending Allen.  He plays with a really good defense where he rarely has to score more than 20 points to win a game.  That is great for a young qb because it’s not on them to win the game.  What Allen does here is a miles times different than Mahomes in his MVP season where he had to score 30+ because his defense sucks. Miami gave up 31 points a game this year.  It was an awful, awful, awful situation. 

[GoBills808]

3 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I pointed this out before but Mark Sanchez had 5 game winning drives one year.  He sucks but because he was with a good defense, he had more chances for comebacks.  
 

 

I have no idea what you’re saying.  You are very emotional defending Allen.  He plays with a really good defense where he rarely has to score more than 20 points to win a game.  That is great for a young qb because it’s not on them to win the game.  What Allen does here is a miles times different than Mahomes in his MVP season where he had to score 30+ because his defense sucks. Miami gave up 31 points a game this year.  It was an awful, awful, awful situation. 

Yes I am completely emotional asking you questions you cannot answer while bemoaning the unfortunate circumstances of poor Rosen.

[Formerly Allan in MD]

2 hours ago, Utah John said:

I feel bad for Rosen, who never has had a chance.  He was ruined in AZ and then didn't get a real shot in Miami, and both teams were suck-o.  With a better team around him his career could have been completely different.

+1

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, BringBackOrton said:

The Bills leak had Rosen ranked as their number 4 QB. You could argue based on their picture, they didn’t plan on trading up to #5 to draft Rosen but to suggest they wouldn’t have picked him in the first is a stretch. 

 

Allen was the #1 QB on their board overall.  So with Rosen 4th...how do you figure Rosen was in their plans to draft in the first?  He wasn't an option.  

He was not a Bill.  He was not close to becoming a Bill.  Why are we still talking about a guy whose soon to be in the XFL that literally has NO connection to Buffalo on any level other than fans misguided imagining of him being good on draft night?

Edited February 25, 2020 by Alphadawg7

[formerlyofCtown]

I would have got sick to my stomach.  And known we would be looking for a QB and HC in a couple years.

[Alphadawg7]

47 minutes ago, Virgil said:

 

YOU DARE DISRESPECT ME BY DISAGREEING WITH ME!?

 

Consider yourself banned from my treehouse

 

What if I bring vintage playboys to the treehouse and punch your rich narcissistic brother in his mouth?  I could also show you my Randy Jackson autographed Samurai sword and do lots of activities together after like karate in the garage

[Virgil]

9 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

What if I bring vintage playboys to the treehouse and punch your rich narcissistic brother in his mouth?  I could also show you my Randy Jackson autographed Samurai sword and do lots of activities together after like karate in the garage

Did we just become best friends?!

[Alphadawg7]

2 minutes ago, Virgil said:

Did we just become best friends?!

Yup!  

[Sherlock Holmes]

[Mango]

Honestly, at the time, much happier. 
 

Now, I would rather have Allen.
 

Rosen might be able to resurrect something that resembles a career. Allen > Rosen seems to be the right decision. 

[BringBackOrton]

26 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Allen was the #1 QB on their board overall.  So with Rosen 4th...how do you figure Rosen was in their plans to draft in the first?  He wasn't an option.  

He was not a Bill.  He was not close to becoming a Bill.  Why are we still talking about a guy whose soon to be in the XFL that literally has NO connection to Buffalo on any level other than fans misguided imagining of him being good on draft night?

What! Just because Allen was their #1 QB has zero bearing on if they had a first round grade on Rosen (I’m sure they did) and if they would take him in the first round if their top 3 QBs were off the board (I’m sure they would).

 

Are you trolling?

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

22 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

What! Just because Allen was their #1 QB has zero bearing on if they had a first round grade on Rosen (I’m sure they did) and if they would take him in the first round if their top 3 QBs were off the board (I’m sure they would).

 

Are you trolling?

 

"If they had a first round grade"; "I'm sure they did"; "I'm sure they would".  

 

Are you the king of conjecture?

[Alphadawg7]

25 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

What! Just because Allen was their #1 QB has zero bearing on if they had a first round grade on Rosen (I’m sure they did) and if they would take him in the first round if their top 3 QBs were off the board (I’m sure they would).

 

Are you trolling?

How can you still be missing my point?  At no point ever was Rosen almost a Bill.  Being available in no way put him close to becoming a Bill.  
 

So I ask again, why on Earth do people still talk here on TSW about this soon to be XFL QB as if he has any ties to the Bills?  He doesn’t.  Never did.  

Edited February 25, 2020 by Alphadawg7

[CincyBillsFan]

6 hours ago, Virgil said:

Honestly, no idea.  I wanted Rosen but that’s why I’m not a GM.  
 

I wonder if Rosen’s performance would have been any better if there was an actual plan for him.   His situation has been the worst of any rookie QB’s. I wonder how Allen would have fared in the same situation.  

 

IMO Allen was placed in as bad or even worse position then Rosen.  I'm not sure why a number of posts on this thread are saying Rosen came into a worse situation then Allen. 

 

Rosen got more reps with the Cards first team in training camp and the preseason then Allen did and the offensive talent around Rosen was as good and maybe a bit better then what the Bills put around Allen.  Bottom line is that while I like Beane & McD, the Bills organization did not distinguish itself in its handling of Allen then the Cards did in their handling of Rosen.

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

49 minutes ago, Virgil said:

Did we just become best friends?!

 

IDK, will he give you his Bud Lite?

[CincyBillsFan]

8 hours ago, BringBackFergy said:

What if we took Jackson over Rosen? Same response?

 

 

If we or any team other then Baltimore and maybe SF had taken Jackson they very well could be looking for a new QB. 

 

Jackson would have struggled in a conventional offense.  I give full credit to the Ravens organization for going all in on Lamar.  I doubt McD & Dabold would have done the same with Jackson.

 

 

[BringBackOrton]

27 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

How can you still be missing my point?  At no point ever was Rosen almost a Bill.  Being available in no way put him close to becoming a Bill.  
 

So I ask again, why on Earth do people still talk here on TSW about this soon to be XFL QB as if he has any ties to the Bills?  He doesn’t.  Never did.  

If Allen or Darnold were drafted by the Giants or Broncos, Rosen would have been a Bill.

28 minutes ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

 

"If they had a first round grade"; "I'm sure they did"; "I'm sure they would".  

 

Are you the king of conjecture?

Yes, it’s unsupported conjecture that a universal top 4 QB prospect in the best QB draft in a decade probably had a first round grade by multiple teams, including the one that drafted him in the top 12.

[Alphadawg7]

4 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

If Allen or Darnold were drafted by the Giants or Broncos, Rosen would have been a Bill.

Yes, it’s unsupported conjecture that a universal top 4 QB prospect in the best QB draft in a decade probably had a first round grade by multiple teams, including the one that drafted him in the top 12.

If we had drafted Tom Brady we would have...

 

I mean come on.  At no point was Rosen ever close to a Bill.  Allen was their number one target overall and he was not drafted by someone else.  End of story.  Rosen never got close to being a Bill other than disappointed fans who assumed he would be the pick but was never actually at any moment in consideration to be a Bill.  
 

FYI:  Denver was never taking a QB.  Was going to trade the 5th pick to the Bills unless their guy fell, who was not a QB.  Clearly Bills were aware of this given a deal was already in place.  
 

Again, there is no reality where Rosen was almost a Bills or even consideration to be the pick.  
 

Can we move on from this fringe XFL QB already who has no ties to this organization other than premature outrage by fans who thought he was a better prospect at the time?

[BringBackOrton]

1 minute ago, Alphadawg7 said:

If we had drafted Tom Brady we would have...

 

I mean come on.  At no point was Rosen ever close to a Bill.  Allen was their number one target overall and he was not drafted by someone else.  End of story.  Rosen never got close to being a Bill other than disappointed fans who assumed he would be the pick but was never actually at any moment in consideration to be a Bill.  
 

FYI:  Denver was never taking a QB.  Was going to trade the 5th pick to the Bills unless their guy fell, who was not a QB.  Clearly Bills were aware of this given a deal was already in place.  
 

Again, there is no reality where Rosen was almost a Bills or even consideration to be the pick.  
 

Can we move on from this fringe XFL QB already who has no ties to this organization other than premature outrage by fans who thought he was a better prospect at the time?

He was in consideration to be a Bill when he was ranked on their board. 

 

Sorry dude. No one is making you make wrong statements about Rosen, feel free to Alt-F4.

Edited February 25, 2020 by BringBackOrton

[Alphadawg7]

Just now, BringBackOrton said:

He was in consideration to be a Bill when he was ranked on their board. 

 

Sorry dude. No one is making you make wrong statements about Rosen, feel free to Alt-F4.

Lol.  Agree to disagree.  There is no reality to him almost becoming a Bill.  

[letsgoteam]

8 hours ago, Mark Long Beach said:

Well per the photo of the whiteboard, he was on the board, but it looks like he wasn't in the first round.  They were willing to trade up to Den at #5 (for #12, 22 & 53) to get

1> Allen

2> Darnald

3> Mayfield

 

But Rosen was their first runner-up at #4 but not on a tradup to #5.  Which of course didn't happen since Denver got their player to fall to them and we had to trade at 7.

LAMAR JACKSON was the one not on their board as we had just gotten rid of Tyrod Taylor.

#4 Rosen

#5 Okl. St. Lamotta?

#6 Richmond 

 

Where does one find/see this picture? (Im not doubting you, just wondering ? )

 

NEVERMIND, I SHOULD READ THE WHOLE THREAD BEFORE ASKING THINGS! 

Edited February 25, 2020 by letsgoteam

[CSBill]

9 hours ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

Was wondering what your guys reaction would’ve been if we had taken Rosen instead of Allen. I love Allen and was very happy that we took him, never liked Rosen in college  as he reminded me too much of Cutler and Jeff George without the rocket arm. I think personally it would’ve set us back if we’d made that move. Thoughts??

 

To answer your Thread question: Bad.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

I had Allen #1 and Rosen #2.  Rosen still may prove to be a decent QB but it looks less and less likely.  

Neither Allen nor Rosen would have done anything in 2018 behind that terrible mess of an o-line.

 

If by the end of 2019,  Rosen had not been the well established starter, then both Beane and McD lose their jobs.  Beane traded away a serviceable LT, and two first round picks to move up and draft a QB.  If they miss on that QB then they have to go.  You can not risk them missing on another QB. 

[BringBackFergy]

10 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

I had Allen #1 and Rosen #2.  Rosen still may prove to be a decent QB but it looks less and less likely.  

Neither Allen nor Rosen would have done anything in 2018 behind that terrible mess of an o-line.

 

If by the end of 2019,  Rosen had not been the well established starter, then both Beane and McD lose their jobs.  Beane traded away a serviceable LT, and two first round picks to move up and draft a QB.  If they miss on that QB then they have to go.  You can not risk them missing on another QB. 

Cordy Glenn a “serviceable” LT??? Dude was playing with no kidneys, was on dialysis at halftime and barely played half a season for the Bengals. 

[Captain Hindsight]

13 hours ago, Rock'em Sock'em said:

 

I think the Bills brass got this mostly right.  Not having Lamar Jackson on the board at all due to his play style seems odd.  But from their point of view, they probably felt good about Daboll's offense.

They had just traded Tyrod. They may have felt they wanted a more traditional offense. And LJ only works in Baltimore because they built that offense for him. He wouldn't be as successful in a traditional offense (at least not yet)

[frostbitmic]

13 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

You are insanely overvaluing Allen then.  This is the problem with evaluating qbs.  Very few young qbs can go into a situation and just elevate the team by themselves.  We have had a top 3 defense both years Allen has been here.  A lot of qbs would have been solid here.  
 

Rosen may suck but it’s insane to say so after the situations he was forced in.  Allen would look a lot different if he got drafted by Arizona.  Our situation isn’t perfect but we have a team carried by a really good defense where a qb doesn’t have to score a lot of points to win games.  It’s a good situation for a young qb to grow in.

I don't believe I'm overvaluing a QB that loves the game and will work his ass off to achieve his goals.

 

Rosen on the other hand, IMO, thinks he's great as is and likely won't put in the effort to reach stardom.

 

In 5 years I see Allen as a solid NFL QB, Rosen I can see playing professional tennis in 5 years.

[HappyDays]

11 hours ago, BringBackOrton said:

If Allen or Darnold were drafted by the Giants or Broncos, Rosen would have been a Bill.

 

The rumor I remember seeing is that the Bills would have traded down and drafted Mason Rudolph. I don't think Rosen was ever a possibility.

[BringBackOrton]

10 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

The rumor I remember seeing is that the Bills would have traded down and drafted Mason Rudolph. I don't think Rosen was ever a possibility.

Well then we’re cheating, because we’re using the leaked board to say Rosen wasn’t going to be the pick at #5 if we traded up, but then also ignoring the leaked board for this rumor.

[Steve O]

If we HAD TAKEN Rosen, it would have made me as sick as the OP's butchering of the English language in the title

[HappyDays]

8 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

Well then we’re cheating, because we’re using the leaked board to say Rosen wasn’t going to be the pick at #5 if we traded up, but then also ignoring the leaked board for this rumor.

 

I don't know what leaked board you mean. I remember 2 trustworthy posters on here saying the Bills would have preferred to trade down for Rudolph rather than stay put and take Rosen. That's what I'm going off of. Also Rosen doesn't seem to fit any of the qualities this regime looks for. He isn't very athletic and there are questions about his football character.

[C.Biscuit97]

9 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I don't know what leaked board you mean. I remember 2 trustworthy posters on here saying the Bills would have preferred to trade down for Rudolph rather than stay put and take Rosen. That's what I'm going off of. Also Rosen doesn't seem to fit any of the qualities this regime looks for. He isn't very athletic and there are questions about his football character.

The Rudolph thing doesn’t make me feel any better.  He has been terrible in a good situation. 

[HappyDays]

8 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

The Rudolph thing doesn’t make me feel any better.  He has been terrible in a good situation. 

 

I mean, we're talking about a scenario where Mayfield, Darnold, and Allen all go before our pick. In that scenario there are no good options. Trading down would have been the right move.

 

Rosen could have been good 15 years ago. These days you can't win being a statue in the pocket. The most exciting QBs right now are elite athletes. And I'm not saying you have to be Lamar Jackson. But you can't be Matt Ryan either. Ryan is actually a perfect example of what I mean. Everyone says he would be great if only he had a good offensive line. Cousins is another example. The problem is no one has a good offensive line. It's unsustainable in the modern NFL and pass rushes are way ahead of the curve. So either you're athletic enough to deal with it or your ceiling will be tied to your pass protection. The whole concept of what QBs are asked to do is changing before our eyes and Rosen doesn't fit in.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

41 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I don't know what leaked board you mean. I remember 2 trustworthy posters on here saying the Bills would have preferred to trade down for Rudolph rather than stay put and take Rosen. That's what I'm going off of. Also Rosen doesn't seem to fit any of the qualities this regime looks for. He isn't very athletic and there are questions about his football character.

 

There was a photo of a whiteboard allegedly in a Bills FO conference room that was circulated on social media.

 

A number of us pointed out reasons to regard it as of questionable legitimacy.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

Something happened that day - my wife and i were driving to meet friends at the jake for the draft and she asked who i wanted to draft.  All the time leading up to the draft i had been heavily for josh rosen.. but that day i just said - i want josh allen.  

 

So needless to say, i was pleased.

[Albany,n.y.]

2 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

The rumor I remember seeing is that the Bills would have traded down and drafted Mason Rudolph. I don't think Rosen was ever a possibility.

Close, but with the benefit of seeing the 1st round after the draft, the odds are the Bills would have taken Edmunds at 12 and either drafted Rudolph in the 1st or 2nd round with their own pick.  

[BuffaloMatt]

On 2/24/2020 at 12:30 PM, BringBackFergy said:

What if we took Jackson over Rosen? Same response?

 

No. Jackson showed the league what he is about. Darnold on the other had has had glimpses while Rosen is a bust as the day is long. 

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

I spent so much time watching all the QB’s from that draft. In the final few weeks I only wanted Allen or Mayfield. Allen was the QB that needed polishing but you knew he had the work ethic to improve his game. If he keeps improving at the rate that he is he will be a top 5 QB in the NFL.

[Malazan]

Rosen was destined to be a wasted pick. Allen may or may not turn out to be a FQB, but either way, he's not a wasted pick. He's got a shot to develop. So I would have felt bad. I never believed that Rosen was going to make it. Rosen/Mayfield were the two I believed would be tire fires.

[The Jokeman]

At the time I was livid as was a Darnold/Rosen fan going into the draft. I even posted #wrongjosh in another forum. That said in retrospect I'm glad I was wrong as it's clear that Allen's the better QB. In fact I'd say he's the 2nd best QB of the class but only behind Lamar.