A comment about Lamar gets a 49er's announcer suspended

[whatdrought]

Just now, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Was it though? Sure, Lamar's skin tone is a pretty good match for a football, that's a fact. But did it really make a difference on the fakes, or was it mostly the jersey? Is he the first and only dark-skinned player to carry a football?

 

Is that why defenders have a tough time reacting to Singeltary? Or determining if McKenzie has the ball on the jet sweep? Or any other black player that runs fakes or carries the ball?

 

If your analyzing why the fake worked so well on Sunday, chalk it up to the uniforms and Jackson's amazing ball handling skills. Trying to tie it to his skin color is just lazy and inaccurate. Regardless if anyone was offended or not.

 

I agree with the rest of your take, just wanted to expand on that part a bit.

 

You can’t argue that the uniform aids the camouflaging of the ball and skin tone of the arm holding the ball doesn’t help as well. They’re both background objects on the ball, both creating contrast or blend. Maybe every black player does have a minuscule advantage over white players. I didn’t play enough football to answer that question- it’d Be interesting to hear actual football players comment on that.

 

That being said, he didn’t say that was why Lamar is so dangerous. He mentioned it as a part of a list of several things that inhibited the overall ability to see the ball. The rain and gloominess of the day were certainly one of the main factors (and Lamar’s insane skills with ball handling) but in the context of the background of a player affecting the visibility of the ball, then yes- it seems obvious that less contrast = less visibility. Again, who knows if that makes a practical difference.

 

[SirAndrew]

5 minutes ago, whatdrought said:

 

You can’t argue that the uniform aids the camouflaging of the ball and skin tone of the arm holding the ball doesn’t help as well. They’re both background objects on the ball, both creating contrast or blend. Maybe every black player does have a minuscule advantage over white players. I didn’t play enough football to answer that question- it’d Be interesting to hear actual football players comment on that.

 

That being said, he didn’t say that was why Lamar is so dangerous. He mentioned it as a part of a list of several things that inhibited the overall ability to see the ball. The rain and gloominess of the day were certainly one of the main factors (and Lamar’s insane skills with ball handling) but in the context of the background of a player affecting the visibility of the ball, then yes- it seems obvious that less contrast = less visibility. Again, who knows if that makes a practical difference.

 

I agree, I’d love to hear what players would say. I don’t want to go all Al Bundy sharing my feelings on the topic. I suspect they’d point to the jersey more than anything. 

Edited December 5, 2019 by SirAndrew

[whatdrought]

2 minutes ago, SirAndrew said:

I agree, I’d love to hear what players would say. I don’t want to go all Al Bundy sharing my feelings on the topic. I suspect they’d point to the jersey more than anything. 

 

Same. I doubt it does make much difference because (and this I do remember from playing) if you’re biting on the fake, it’s usually cause you want the ball to be going to the back- not cause you don’t see it. I wonder how many times guys just don’t see the ball vs. they see what they want to see... it’s an interesting question.

[Rico]

2 hours ago, Stallions said:

The San Francisco 49ers have suspended broadcaster Tim Ryan for one game ... after the ex-NFLer said Lamar Jackson was successful at faking hand-offs because of "his dark skin."

Ryan -- who played with the Chicago Bears from 1990-93 before starting his commentary career -- went on a KNBR radio show to discuss the Niners' 20-17 loss to the Ravens and why the QB is so good. “He’s really good at that fake, Lamar Jackson," Ryan said. "But, when you consider his dark skin with a dark football with a dark uniform, you could not see that thing." “I mean you literally could not see when he was in and out of the mesh point and if you’re a half step slow on him in terms of your vision, forget about it, he’s out of the gate.”

 

Good, I always thought he was a d-bag on Sirius with Pat Kirwan

[Paulus]

Stole: The Seahawks had to stop wearing neon green gloves bc they attracted holding calls. 

[ArtVandalay]

2 minutes ago, whatdrought said:

 

You can’t argue that the uniform aids the camouflaging of the ball and skin tone of the arm holding the ball doesn’t help as well. They’re both background objects on the ball, both creating contrast or blend. Maybe every black player does have a minuscule advantage over white players. I didn’t play enough football to answer that question- it’d Be interesting to hear actual football players comment on that.

 

That being said, he didn’t say that was why Lamar is so dangerous. He mentioned it as a part of a list of several things that inhibited the overall ability to see the ball. The rain and gloominess of the day were certainly one of the main factors (and Lamar’s insane skills with ball handling) but in the context of the background of a player affecting the visibility of the ball, then yes- it seems obvious that less contrast = less visibility. Again, who knows if that makes a practical difference.

 

Exactly, Lamar still needs to be insanely talented and great at what he does for it to work, but disguising the optics of a ball is an added benefit -- just like how it's illegal for baseball pitchers to wear white sleeves and the batters eye needs to be a dark color at parks and places like Fenway are forced to put a dark tarp over the CF seats for day games.

 

Lamar is a great kid and super talented and i don't think anyone has questioned that. An innocent comment that is not derogatory in nature or intended to be and is purely just honest commentary on optics shouldn't be controversy.

 

I hope the game Sunday doesn't get dragged down by any nonsense.

[Augie]

Stupid comment, let it go. He’ll get his time off. 

 

Just hit YOUR guy and win YOUR battle. 

 

Go BILLS! 

[Royale with Cheese]

2 hours ago, SirAndrew said:

True, just thinking my high school didn’t have any background, and no one complained about my hand being white. I’m not offended by this guys comment, I just don’t think it makes as much sense as some people do. Skin tone and ball color isn’t generally a big topic in sports, it just seems silly and dumb imo. 

You’re not allowed to wear white sleeves as a pitcher because it is the same color as the ball.  The baseball and your hand are completely different colors....and the ball has red laces in which you can see as a hitter.  It’s very visible.
 

It’s not just Jackson’s skin tone.  It’s also a combination of the dark color Jersey. 

[Codycolo12]

2 hours ago, White Linen said:

Saying having dark skin is an advantage - is now offensive?   I thought saying it was a disadvantage was.  I can't keep up with what can and can't be said.

Agreed i mean boise cant wear blue on blue in there stadium in some games because of the advantage.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

2 hours ago, Stallions said:

The San Francisco 49ers have suspended broadcaster Tim Ryan for one game ... after the ex-NFLer said Lamar Jackson was successful at faking hand-offs because of "his dark skin."

Ryan -- who played with the Chicago Bears from 1990-93 before starting his commentary career -- went on a KNBR radio show to discuss the Niners' 20-17 loss to the Ravens and why the QB is so good. “He’s really good at that fake, Lamar Jackson," Ryan said. "But, when you consider his dark skin with a dark football with a dark uniform, you could not see that thing." “I mean you literally could not see when he was in and out of the mesh point and if you’re a half step slow on him in terms of your vision, forget about it, he’s out of the gate.”

 

 

Lets make sure they wear the ‘other’ jerseys in buffalo 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, Lurker said:

 

It's all PC and things right now, but the league might want to look into those black color rush unis during night games in the rain...

 

 

This is exactly the point that I feel mentioning skin color deflected from.

I think the competition committee should look into whether certain uniform colors do help camoflage the football.

[whatdrought]

2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

This is exactly the point that I feel mentioning skin color deflected from.

I think the competition committee should look into whether certain uniform colors do help camoflage the football.

 

I would love to hear current players takes on this. If it is a factor, you would have to assume it’s well known in lockerrooms?

[BobChalmers]

2 hours ago, DefenseWins said:

Using that rationale shouldn't EJ have had a more successful career playing with the Raiders wearing Black uniforms? Dumb thing to say!

 

If EJ's game was about misdirection and hard to spot handoffs, it would have been equally legit.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, ArtVandalay said:

Lol what? Simmer down? I calmly explained to you why that case would be appropriate to sue. 

 

Projecting what? That he has an appropriate case to sue for being publicly labeled a racist by his employer? 

 

I'm a bit lost on this with what you're saying. It feels like you are cobbling up some trendy phrases just because we disagree.

 

Simmer means you said " His reputation is going to be absolutely destroyed. He'll never make it to a high profile job. His career is toast. They basically labeled him and punished him as a racist. There's a tangible loss of earnings both current and future. Yes, you sure for that"

 

Yet none of those ills have accrued to the guy who got a 1 day suspension and made an apology over an insensitive comment.

 

Simmer down and wait until some of that does actually occur before projecting that it will occur.

 

In the meantime, if you want to project destroyed earnings, loss of profession and all that rest onto a 1 day suspension for an insensitive comment before any of that has actually gone down, as I said - PPP at your service.

[BobChalmers]

11 minutes ago, Codycolo12 said:

Agreed i mean boise cant wear blue on blue in there stadium in some games because of the advantage.

 

Still remember that crazy game where they had a guy lying down in the endzone - practically invisible - on a kickoff return, right?

[Freddie's Dead]

Stupid comment.  He's lucky he only got suspended and not fired outright.  

[BobChalmers]

8 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

This is exactly the point that I feel mentioning skin color deflected from.

I think the competition committee should look into whether certain uniform colors do help camoflage the football.

 

Might need to go to college style striped balls if teams are taking advantage.

[StHustle]

Reading some of these comments remind me of just how insensitive many Bills fans can be regarding issues of race and color. Not saying this was some huge offense but even something small like this bring certain types out the woodwork.

 

Takes me back to how Bills fans treated Kaepernick THE worst during his protest days. Hundreds of shirts being worn suggesting he should be shot and killed for kneeling. Many won't admit or even aren't conscious of the fact that the real reason they were so upset was not the kneeling itself, but the reason he was kneeling for. If Kaep came out and said he is kneeling to protest and bring attention to the poor way war veterans are treated when they return to civilian life, there would have been almost ZERO national outrage. 

 

Something about racial wrongs being pointed out that ruffles a certain demographics feathers more than it should.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

58 minutes ago, ArtVandalay said:

Usually summer down is said to someone upset or angry, not calmly expressing their point of view.

 

Usually a calm POV is expressed without hyperbole and over-the-top suggestions like "sue"  - Over a 1 day suspension?

 

58 minutes ago, ArtVandalay said:

Your quoted statement does nothing other than support my previous statement. 

 

His character had been attacked publicly. His public reputation had been damaged.His future earnings rely on that reputation. His suspension damages his current earnings. It's pretty cut and dry how he is harmed from this both current abd future earnings, nevermind his personal reputation. It's not suing "for anything" he's losing a paycheck. His future employment is affected. These are tangible loses, not hurt feelings.

 

This is exactly what I mean.  I bet you don't even know if he was suspended without pay, do you?  You have no clue whether it will harm or enhance his future broadcast earnings.  Maybe he'll be seen as "edgy" and get ops he wouldn't otherwise.  No one has attacked his character - if you've seen that, you could, of course, provide evidence.  It is not at all cut and dry that he's been harmed in any prolonged sense.

 

Last call: since you have trouble parsing "simmer down"  I'll be more specific- stop making assertions about the vast harms accruing to this broadcaster's life, earnings and character without basis (eg links where in fact someone has called him a racist) or evidence (loss of pay, loss of job, etc). 

 

If you want to generally rant about this stuff, PPP is the place.

[BobChalmers]

2 hours ago, CEN-CAL17 said:

They will be wearing white jerseys come Sunday no?

 

Presumably.

 

The Bills should have gone with white on white for their snow game against the Colts 2 years back!!

 

 

 

 

[Bronxbomber21]

Did the broadcaster that was talking about a Dirty Sanchez get suspended just curious because that was pretty bad.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 minutes ago, Bronxbomber21 said:

Did the broadcaster that was talking about a Dirty Sanchez get suspended just curious because that was pretty bad.

 

That shoulda got some discipline.  Holy Guacamole, if you don't know what something means, don't say it!  And especially don't say it on the air!

19 minutes ago, whatdrought said:

I would love to hear current players takes on this. If it is a factor, you would have to assume it’s well known in lockerrooms?

 

It's a good question. 

I think successful professional football players are guys who take responsibility on themselves and are trained not to "make excuses"

I'm sure they're all aware that it's very difficult to see the ball, but I wonder if they reflect on "why is that?" or if they're just "I need to pay more attention"

[MJS]

1 hour ago, jimmy10 said:

You poor dear!

Why would I be poor?

[BillsShredder83]

Its relevant and a good point. If it causes even a split second of hesitation the dude Is gone. Hes already faster than you. It's actually an interesting point.

[Chandler#81]

1 hour ago, Gugny said:

Tyrod Taylor even sucked on the Browns.  Damn!!!

Are you sure? Looked to me like he oddly sucked..

 

fyi, this thread is getting borderline tossed into PPP or shut down due to the desire of some to pontificate their politics. 

Refrain.

 

And I’m looking specifically at you, @ArtVandalay.

[Prickly Pete]

 

It's utter nonsense. 

 

 

 

[Prickly Pete]

2 hours ago, whatdrought said:

 

 

What, they dress like ***** and then play like it? That’s working great for them!

 

 

This whole thing is stupid. He shouldn’t have said that for his own sake- not cause it’s wrong, but cause it’s not a good look. What he said was factual, and not derogatory, some people will bend over backwards to find racism wherever they can. All that being equal, it sounds like he was discussing a legitimate football topic and said something silly without thinking through how it might be taken. If it’s in a bar with your best buddies, nobody thinks twice cause it isn’t about his race, it’s about the way the ball is viewed (or, not viewed) from the eyes of the defender. On radio, it’s gonna get some pushback. 

 

At the end of the day, Lamar has dark skin. He’s great at a play fake. Dark colors blend in better with dark colors. I’m glad they’re wearing white this weekend. 

 

 

What about it "isn't a good look"...what does that mean?

How might it be taken? There was nothing derogatory about it. 

 

 

 

 

 

3 hours ago, Augie said:

 

I don’t know the guy at all, but I’m almost positive it wasn’t mean spirited. Unfortunately, this is like playing with the third rail. You need to know not to go there, even if there is nothing negative intended. You are just opening yourself up to........this. 

 

Talk about the jersey and you’re fine. 

 

.

 

 

But "this" is NONSENSE.

 

It's surely some corporate pearl clutching, and something no rational person would give a crap about, black or white.

Part of "getting past racism" is getting past these ridiculous fake controversies.

 

 

 

Edited December 5, 2019 by 32ABBA

[BobbyC81]

4 hours ago, Binghamton Beast said:

If the ball was light colored, and it was Josh Allen he was talking about while he is wearing a white jersey would anyone be mad?

Why not say it? Lamar Jackson has dark skin. Is that a racist observation? Especially in the context he used that observation?

 

Hell no.

I agree.  This stuff gets ridiculous.  He was just stating a fact.  You just need to look at the picture posted above.  His skin tone is similar to that of the ball.  If it was a white QB, the ball would be easier to see.  

[Doc Brown]

My first reaction to this was will this was will this distract the Ravens at all this Sunday because of how ridiculous the whole story is.  You have to be careful with what you say if you're a public figure but an apology would've sufficed as I saw no malice whatsoever in what he said.

Edited December 5, 2019 by Doc Brown

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Speaking the truth - "silence i keel you!"

 

 

[Bakin]

7 hours ago, Binghamton Beast said:

If the ball was light colored, and it was Josh Allen he was talking about while he is wearing a white jersey would anyone be mad?

Why not say it? Lamar Jackson has dark skin. Is that a racist observation? Especially in the context he used that observation?

 

Hell no.

Yeeeesh. Just bad optics. 
Doesn’t offend me AT ALL 

but people are wayyyyyyyy too sensitive these days....and as a journalist you should know that if you are talking about someone’s skin colour, especially in the context of how it might be camouflaging the ball during play action....

just doesn’t look good. 
 

 

[billsintaiwan]

1 minute ago, Bakin said:

Yeeeesh. Just bad optics. 
Doesn’t offend me AT ALL 

but people are wayyyyyyyy too sensitive these days....and as a journalist you should know that if you are talking about someone’s skin colour, especially in the context of how it might be camouflaging the ball during play action....

just doesn’t look good. 
 

 

Bad optics because of the distorted eyes of the viewers.

 

Guerilla Tactics!

[Bakin]

2 minutes ago, billsintaiwan said:

Bad optics because of the distorted eyes of the viewers.

 

Guerilla Tactics!

It’s reverse racism. 
if Tim Ryan were black and said that...he wouldn’t have been suspended.
Bet your bottom dollar.

 

[Scott7975]

I don't think it was a racist comment, but I can see why he got suspended in this day and age.

[HOUSE]

[bmur66]

Funny, I said darn near the same thing to my wife during the 49'ers game

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

8 hours ago, atlbillsfan1975 said:

It helped, but probably could of been said differently. 

 

 

....memories of Tom Brookshire............

[Aireskoi]

8 hours ago, Rocky Landing said:

That's it! The Bills need to switch to medium-brown uniforms, and Josh needs to dye his hands brown. 

 

I would think football-brown sleeves and gloves for a RPO QB and HB would be an advantage for them.

 

Paint a football in the belly of the team jerseys as a decoy?  ........maybe not.

 

 

To the people saying things to the effect of "these days you should know better" , I want to remind you that we are these days.

 

Does it offend you?  I mean really?  I don't see how it could, so stick up for his right to speak what he sees or we're all in trouble.

 

Shape and color create reality, we need to keep some things true.

 

 

[skibum]

  

[BehindTheWoodshed]

9 hours ago, WMDman said:

Stupid thing to say in today’s time

 

His skin color is quite close to that of the ball, add in the uniform and what he said makes sense to me. But I also see why he was suspended.

Edited December 5, 2019 by BehindTheWoodshed