MNF: Chiefs vs Chargers from Mexico City

[ComradeKayAdams]

Just now, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

 

Well, he is currently #6 all-time in passing yards and #6 all-time in passing TDs.  Next up on the list is Dan Marino at #5 who is less than 4000 yards over Rivers at the moment and played 16 seasons to River's 15.  And Rivers sat for two years behind Brees (so he's only started for 13 seasons).  Not bad for one of the most immobile and pure pocket passers.  Yes, he's definitely a choker and that is a huge knock on him.

 

Sure, but Rivers also played in the most pass-happy era in NFL history. If he gets in because of career passing yards, then I will make a case for Drew Bledsoe, Vinny Testaverde, Kerry Collins, Carson Palmer, etc... Do you think Matt Ryan is a Hall of Famer? Stafford? Both may likely pass Marino when their careers are up. 

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

15 minutes ago, KayAdams said:

 

Sure, but Rivers also played in the most pass-happy era in NFL history. If he gets in because of career passing yards, then I will make a case for Drew Bledsoe, Vinny Testaverde, Kerry Collins, Carson Palmer, etc... Do you think Matt Ryan is a Hall of Famer? Stafford? Both may likely pass Marino when their careers are up. 

 

The pass happy era started with the Fouts' and Marino's.  Ever heard of Air Coryell and the author of the NFL's modern passing game?  Surely you have.  His stats hold up pretty well and he will get in.  I definitely do not think he will be a first ballot hall of famer, but it's going to be hard to keep him out.  I mean, he's number#6 in two key passing categories in 13 years, never missed a game, so I think his pros will outweigh his cons and he will eventually get in.  If he decides to play and starts another year, he will pass Marino.

Edited November 19, 2019 by Lieutenant Aldo Raine

[Doc Brown]

6 minutes ago, KayAdams said:

 

Sure, but Rivers also played in the most pass-happy era in NFL history. If he gets in because of career passing yards, then I will make a case for Drew Bledsoe, Vinny Testaverde, Kerry Collins, Carson Palmer, etc... Do you think Matt Ryan is a Hall of Famer? Stafford? Both may likely pass Marino when their careers are up. 

Agreed.  His failure in the playoffs, not ever winning the MVP or offensive player of the year, and a likely logjam at QB may prevent him from making it despite his seven pro bowl selections.  Unless they loosen the standards and put 20 in every year like the idiotic decision they made to induct 20 in 2020.

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

4 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

Agreed.  His failure in the playoffs, not ever winning the MVP or offensive player of the year, and a likely logjam at QB may prevent him from making it despite his seven pro bowl selections.  Unless they loosen the standards and put 20 in every year like the idiotic decision they made to induct 20 in 2020.

 

Pretty confident that Manning, Roethlisberger, and Rivers will all get in.  The 2004 class ranks up there with the 1983 class. 

[Big Turk]

Think we are watching Rivers falling off a cliff right before our eyes...7 INTs in the past 2 weeks is more than some QBs will.probably throw all season.

 

 

6 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

Agreed.  His failure in the playoffs, not ever winning the MVP or offensive player of the year, and a likely logjam at QB may prevent him from making it despite his seven pro bowl selections.  Unless they loosen the standards and put 20 in every year like the idiotic decision they made to induct 20 in 2020.

 

Rivers also needs to take some blame as to why the Chargers seemingly have found new and interesting ways to lose every week for the past 3 years...at some point that falls back to the QB and leadership he is giving or lacking 

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

3 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

Think we are watching Rivers falling off a cliff right before our eyes...7 INTs in the past 2 weeks is more than some QBs will.probably throw all season.

 

 

 

Rivers also needs to take some blame as to why the Chargers seemingly have found new and interesting ways to lose every week for the past 3 years...at some point that falls back to the QB and leadership he is giving or lacking 

 

It's the Chargers, it's what they do!  Going back as far as I can remember.  

[Doc Brown]

7 minutes ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

 

Pretty confident that Manning, Roethlisberger, and Rivers will all get in.  The 2004 class ranks up there with the 1983 class. 

It's an interesting debate because Roethlisberger and Rivers have similar stats but the former has two Superbowl victories.  Eli doesn't have the stats but has two Superbowl wins against the Pats in dramatic fashion.  I'd personally vote Roethlisberger and Rivers in.  I'd leave Eli out as he's a good but not HOF worthy QB.

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

1 minute ago, Doc Brown said:

It's an interesting debate because Roethlisberger and Rivers have similar stats but the former has two Superbowl victories.  Eli doesn't have the stats but has two Superbowl wins against the Pats in dramatic fashion.  I'd personally vote Roethlisberger and Rivers in.  I'd leave Eli out as he's a good but not HOF worthy QB.

 
If you look at total passing yards and TDs for their careers, they are really close together.  Keep in mind, Rivers sat for two years behind Brees while the other two got a two year head start on him. He’s passed them both, but they are #7 and #8 respectively.  They have two SB wins and Rivers has 0.  I think they beat Rivers in, but Rivers will eventually get in.   

[Ethan in Cleveland]

24 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

It's an interesting debate because Roethlisberger and Rivers have similar stats but the former has two Superbowl victories.  Eli doesn't have the stats but has two Superbowl wins against the Pats in dramatic fashion.  I'd personally vote Roethlisberger and Rivers in.  I'd leave Eli out as he's a good but not HOF worthy QB.

I agree with you. That is how I would vote but the two rigs will get Eli in the HOF before Rivers

[ComradeKayAdams]

25 minutes ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

 

The pass happy era started with the Fouts' and Marino's.  Ever heard of Air Coryell and the author of the NFL's modern passing game?  Surely you have.  His stats hold up pretty well and he will get in.  I definitely do not think he will be a first ballot hall of famer, but it's going to be hard to keep him out.  I mean, he's number#6 in two key passing categories in 13 years, never missed a game, so I think his pros will outweigh his cons and he will eventually get in.  If he decides to play and starts another year, he will pass Marino.

 

I wouldn't have my job at GMFB if I didn't

 

Fouts and Marino played in an era spanning 1973-1999. They revolutionized the passing game, and you can call that era "pass-happy" if you'd like. But the passing stats then were nothing compared to what was seen during the true "pass-happy" era of the 21st century. I'll give you a Buffalo-centric example: compare Jim Kelly's passing stats with Ryan Fitzpatrick.

 

You simply can't compare raw stats between radically different eras like that. The best you can do is compare these individuals with their contemporaries. Rivers played at the same time as a lot of future Hall of Fame QB's: Brady, Brees, Roethlisberger, both Mannings, Rodgers, and possibly Wilson. So his stats and accomplishments will be compared with these 7 or so players. Maybe you're right that Rivers will eventually get in, but it will be after these guys and only because they ran out of obvious Hall of Fame choices at all the other positions.

[Doc Brown]

14 minutes ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

 
If you look at total passing yards and TDs for their careers, they are really close together.  Keep in mind, Rivers sat for two years behind Brees while the other two got a two year head start on him. He’s passed them both, but they are #7 and #8 respectively.  They have two SB wins and Rivers has 0.  I think they beat Rivers in, but Rivers will eventually get in.   

I have a hard time putting Eli in.  His career passer rating is 84.1 (well below Roethlisberger and Rivers by about 10 points).  He's led the league in interceptions three times (the only major QB category he's led the league in for any individual season).  He elevated his game in the postseason but it was primarily the defense that won those two SB's.  If you really look close at his numbers he's an average quarterback for his era that's career passing yards and td's are simply byproducts of the Giants being satisfied with average QB play for that span of time.

[QCity]

29 minutes ago, KayAdams said:

You simply can't compare raw stats between radically different eras like that. The best you can do is compare these individuals with their contemporaries. Rivers played at the same time as a lot of future Hall of Fame QB's: Brady, Brees, Roethlisberger, both Mannings, Rodgers, and possibly Wilson. So his stats and accomplishments will be compared with these 7 or so players.

 

So let's compare them.

 

https://imgur.com/a/TNsMGO5

 

 

He's not on the level of the elite but he's had a great career. He's a borderline HOF'er, and to claim that his HOF candidacy would be "unbelievable" is just silly.

 

He's clearly past his prime now and it's easy to throw rocks at him.

 

 

[Buffalo Junction]

7 hours ago, Limeaid said:

 

Really?  Who is going to provide security for the players, staff and families?

It is different for a game - get in, play, get out - than living there with gangs of criminals who kidnap people with money and sometimes allow victims to live after ransom paid.

 

 

 

 

fa·ce·tious

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adjective

1. treating serious issues with deliberately inappropriate humor; flippant.

   "a facetious remark"

[Buffalo Barbarian]

 

Need a Bosa on our team

 

 

Any more brothers out there?

 

 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

7 hours ago, Steptide said:

This game is terrible lol

 

keeps the Mahomes nut huggers in check.

 

 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

5 hours ago, 17islongenough said:

A couple of guys were open and could have gotten the 1st down

 

always goes for the deep ball instead of the open receiver.

 

 

5 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

That's an unbelievable stat.

 

Yikes !! I knew he was not clutch but that is terrible.

 

 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

12 minutes ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

always goes for the deep ball instead of the open receiver.

 

 

 

Yikes !! I knew he was not clutch but that is terrible.

 

 

Incoming Jeremy White to tell us that 4,the quarter comebacks don't matter.

[eball]

5 hours ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

 

Pretty confident that Manning, Roethlisberger, and Rivers will all get in.  The 2004 class ranks up there with the 1983 class. 

 

Big Ben just threw up in his mouth a little bit being mentioned in the same sentence as Rivers.

[r00tabaga]

5 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said:

I agree with you. That is how I would vote but the two rigs will get Eli in the HOF before Rivers

This.

 

hall of FAME

He's a Manning...play'd in NYC & won 2 SBs

[racketmaster]

At least Rivers threw for over 300 yards last night and according to Bills fans that means he had a great game.

[GunnerBill]

Belated MNF reflections (I've been in meetings since 9am.... the cheek of it!)

 

- What the hell was that field? I know in the early years we didn't exactly provide you with a carpet to play on at Wembley but that field looked like cattle had been grazing on it until an hour before kick off.

- Sloppy game on both sides. For all the Chargers "altitude training" in Colorado the past week they were a mess. They just make so many mistakes. Anthony Lynn is almost certainly safe this year but he will start next year on a warming seat.

- When Bosa and Ingram are on they can wreck a game. The Chiefs basically had to abandon their deep passing game in the second half and went to screens and dump offs, used Kelce and the backs much more than the receivers down the field to try and use the Chargers aggression against them. For the most part it worked.

- Austin Eckler is the most fun player in the league. Love him.

- LeSean McCoy can still play. The Chiefs have managed his workload well but I can see some Darren Sproles like late career value there as mainly a receiving back. Still fun to watch him shake and bake.

[thenorthremembers]

10 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Would people forgive and come back?

Yes, 100% they would.  They may be salty at first, but there is something about being 1 of the 32 cities lucky enough to have a NFL franchise that helps wounds heal.  However, Spanos may have some mea culpas to say.

[Hebert19]

1 hour ago, racketmaster said:

At least Rivers threw for over 300 yards last night and according to Bills fans that means he had a great game.

Ha.  Yes.  Hes amazing.  Ignore the L and the 4 picks.

[DuckyBoys]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

Belated MNF reflections (I've been in meetings since 9am.... the cheek of it!)

 

- What the hell was that field? I know in the early years we didn't exactly provide you with a carpet to play on at Wembley but that field looked like cattle had been grazing on it until an hour before kick off.

- Sloppy game on both sides. For all the Chargers "altitude training" in Colorado the past week they were a mess. They just make so many mistakes. Anthony Lynn is almost certainly safe this year but he will start next year on a warming seat.

- When Bosa and Ingram are on they can wreck a game. The Chiefs basically had to abandon their deep passing game in the second half and went to screens and dump offs, used Kelce and the backs much more than the receivers down the field to try and use the Chargers aggression against them. For the most part it worked.

- Austin Eckler is the most fun player in the league. Love him.

- LeSean McCoy can still play. The Chiefs have managed his workload well but I can see some Darren Sproles like late career value there as mainly a receiving back. Still fun to watch him shake and bake.

Chargers always have ton of top end talent and come up with a way to fail.  Past time for them to take a look at the leadership on the team and why they cant get over the hump.  I like Phillip Rivers moxie but he's never had that run when it counts. 

[BringBackOrton]

14 minutes ago, DuckyBoys said:

Chargers always have ton of top end talent and come up with a way to fail.  Past time for them to take a look at the leadership on the team and why they cant get over the hump.  I like Phillip Rivers moxie but he's never had that run when it counts. 

They haven’t been supremely talented since 2009 honestly. They were similar to those languishing Saints-Brees years in a lot of ways, only getting to .500 or so on their QB’s back. 

[apuszczalowski]

1 hour ago, thenorthremembers said:

Yes, 100% they would.  They may be salty at first, but there is something about being 1 of the 32 cities lucky enough to have a NFL franchise that helps wounds heal.  However, Spanos may have some mea culpas to say.

I think they would welcome the team back with open arms, as long as Spanos is left behind.....

 

 

[T master]

Didn't watch, won't watch, that or the London games !! 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

17 hours ago, Joe in Winslow said:

Incoming Jeremy White to tell us that 4,the quarter comebacks don't matter.

 

I never listen to white as im sleeping but it sounds like him and Dopp should work together, preferably in the morning so i don't have to listen  . I really wish Sal had a show , actually is knowledge about football and has reasonable arguments.

 

 

[reddogblitz]

I gotta think this is Rivers ' last year starting for Chargers.  He is spent. he's wearing cement shoes and lobs ducks that are only completed if his guy can get to it and out jump the DB.  Coach Lynne went down with the ship this year.  Doubt he wants to do that again next year.

 

and then there's the mouth.

[mannc]

On 11/19/2019 at 4:07 AM, GunnerBill said:

Belated MNF reflections (I've been in meetings since 9am.... the cheek of it!)

 

- What the hell was that field? I know in the early years we didn't exactly provide you with a carpet to play on at Wembley but that field looked like cattle had been grazing on it until an hour before kick off.

- Sloppy game on both sides. For all the Chargers "altitude training" in Colorado the past week they were a mess. They just make so many mistakes. Anthony Lynn is almost certainly safe this year but he will start next year on a warming seat.

- When Bosa and Ingram are on they can wreck a game. The Chiefs basically had to abandon their deep passing game in the second half and went to screens and dump offs, used Kelce and the backs much more than the receivers down the field to try and use the Chargers aggression against them. For the most part it worked.

- Austin Eckler is the most fun player in the league. Love him.

- LeSean McCoy can still play. The Chiefs have managed his workload well but I can see some Darren Sproles like late career value there as mainly a receiving back. Still fun to watch him shake and bake.

Does Mahomes look healthy to you?  I know he had some nice scrambles, but it looks like he’s limping and not 100 percent....I can’t believe the Chiefs would rush him back too soon, but it looks like they might have.  I’m wondering if it might be affecting his accuracy, too.

[GunnerBill]

13 minutes ago, mannc said:

Does Mahomes look healthy to you?  I know he had some nice scrambles, but it looks like he’s limping and not 100 percent....I can’t believe the Chiefs would rush him back too soon, but it looks like they might have.  I’m wondering if it might be affecting his accuracy, too.

 

I did wonder that. Not sure he is planting when throwing but can't work out if that is just his footwork is always a bit unique or if it is a change from the ordinary.

[Gugny]

1 hour ago, mannc said:

Does Mahomes look healthy to you?  I know he had some nice scrambles, but it looks like he’s limping and not 100 percent....I can’t believe the Chiefs would rush him back too soon, but it looks like they might have.  I’m wondering if it might be affecting his accuracy, too.

 

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I did wonder that. Not sure he is planting when throwing but can't work out if that is just his footwork is always a bit unique or if it is a change from the ordinary.

 

I'm actually thinking that last year was the best season he'll ever have and that he's a great QB, but not the Immortal God everyone made him out to be.

[GG]

1 hour ago, mannc said:

Does Mahomes look healthy to you?  I know he had some nice scrambles, but it looks like he’s limping and not 100 percent....I can’t believe the Chiefs would rush him back too soon, but it looks like they might have.  I’m wondering if it might be affecting his accuracy, too.

 

He definitely had a hitch in his gait when he was running and doesn't appear to have a good foundation when he throws.   Something is definitely off compared to earlier in the season. 

 

My guess is that most humans wouldn't even be standing after the hits his ankle absorbed.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

22 hours ago, T master said:

Didn't watch, won't watch, that or the London games !! 

 

I like the early london games tbh.  Football on tv at a time when it never is... have some coffee and eggs.  Its kinda nice.

[Poleshifter]

Did anyone see the vendor with a tray full of Maruchan Instant Lunch containers?

 

There was a bag of limes on the tray, too, so I don't know what they would be serving at a game. Any ideas?

 

[row_33]

On 11/18/2019 at 10:07 PM, PetermansRedemption said:

Never understood why everyone thinks the tuck rule is a Brady protection thing. It was directly in the rule book, in black and white. In fact, I think it was in there until around 2010. It was absolutely the correct ruling on the play. But a lot of people (not saying you, but a lot of people) think it was a rule made out of thin air to protect Brady. Brady’s intention is irrelevant with the interpretation of the rule. The correct interpretation was applied in that scenario. 

 

nobody defended it at the time

 

those who did claimed Woodson hit Brady in the helmet intentionally so it should have been roughing the passer, but the video doesnt' show that

 

and then the crickets took over and here we are

 

 

[PetermansRedemption]

7 minutes ago, row_33 said:

 

nobody defended it at the time

 

those who did claimed Woodson hit Brady in the helmet intentionally so it should have been roughing the passer, but the video doesnt' show that

 

and then the crickets took over and here we are

 

 

Here’s the exact rule from the NFL rulebook at the time. 
 

NFL Rule 3, Section 22, Article 2, Note 2. When [an offensive] player is holding the ball to pass it forward, any intentional forward movement of his arm starts a forward pass, even if the player loses possession of the ball as he is attempting to tuck it back toward his body.

 

It was actually in the rule book until 2013. 100% the right call as Brady’s arm is going forward and then tucking in. Incomplete forward pass.