NFL Attendance Woes?

[RiotAct]

14 hours ago, plenzmd1 said:

 

this post is so wrong..no way you have " lots of friends" ?

 

BTW, a good 15K people at the game tonight!!

#DUUUUUVAL

[PlayoffsPlease]

In PA Online sports betting is now legal.  You can bet continuously on the game during the game. There are bets for each drive result. The moneyline and spreads update through out.  These game time wagers are quite a bit of fun.  It even makes a titans-jags game exciting.   I imagine that this point its a small group of people who do this.  But if you enjoy this sort of thing, you can follow 5 games at a time at home, while watching the Bills and rooting or betting on them.   This may not hurt the live attendance, but it wont help. 

[klos63]

Maybe these fans watch the Thursday night games and decide not to waste a full day spending lots of money watching a boring game.  NFL is becoming unwatchable at times.

[dave mcbride]

The real problem for live attendance remains what the NFL has long been worried about: the ever-increasing quality of television. New TVs are phenomenal, and why go through the hassle of attending a game when you can watch it on your awesome TV?

[Punching Bag]

20 hours ago, ddaryl said:

 

 

Fix this as we would want it to be all inclusive for those who may have slightly different tastes. 

 

Isn't so lucky that you had one of your favorites to add?

Luckily for us you cannot post one of the nudes ones for that.

[SirAndrew]

1 hour ago, apuszczalowski said:

But what's the tailgate situation like at home? If you drink that much in a stadium parking lot you're a 'hardcore fan', drink that much on your couch and you're an 'alcoholic'.....

I agree, but I think what you said is exactly the issue. The league is slowly making staying home with friends the more enjoyable option. They are phasing out people hanging out in the parking lot binge drinking. I’m not talking about the table crushing stupidity, but simply the ability to have a few drinks and enjoy some food. Fans across the league are being forced to “tailgate” at bars and/or team sanctioned areas. Without the real tailgate experience, why not stay home? 

[Punching Bag]

2 minutes ago, SirAndrew said:

I agree, but I think what you said is exactly the issue. The league is slowly making staying home with friends the more enjoyable option. They are phasing out people hanging out in the parking lot binge drinking. I’m not talking about the table crushing stupidity, but simply the ability to have a few drinks and enjoy some food. Fans across the league are being forced to “tailgate” at bars and/or team sanctioned areas. Without the real tailgate experience, why not stay home? 

 

Agree except the binge drinking. 

[badassgixxer05]

21 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

The real problem for live attendance remains what the NFL has long been worried about: the ever-increasing quality of television. New TVs are phenomenal, and why go through the hassle of attending a game when you can watch it on your awesome TV?

With surround sound and no schmuck spilling beer all over at you. Can also pause when you have to use the John, with no wait or having to wash your hands next to someone with their d*ck out peeing in the sink next to you. Real reason to me though is cost. I'm going this weekend, as my wife bought me tickets for bday, but i look at price on ticket, plus parking, plus beer and snacks and am thinking damn its free on my couch and I never miss a play.

[Punching Bag]

7 minutes ago, SirAndrew said:

Yeah, I just use that phrase because the league has used lots of language regarding “excessive drinking” as a no no. I don’t care how much someone drinks, as long as antisocial doesn’t accompany their drinking. Everyone has different levels of tolerance, so just kick out the trouble makers. When language is used that restricts the amount of an activity allowed to take place, you enter a gray area where that right could be taken away entirely in the future. I truly believe that alcohol consumption in any league sanctioned parking area (tailgating) will be banned outright in the future. 

 

I am sure that will help encourage such companies which currently advertise to advertise more.

I think with NFL you need to follow the money.

[MAJBobby]

On 9/19/2019 at 12:34 PM, plenzmd1 said:

I have been noticing tons of empty seats in most of the games on TV lately, and when I went in to place my picks this week,  here are the walk in prices to some  games  i was presented  with, all non standing room

 

Tenn @ jacksonville  $25 

Atl@ Colts                   $28

Raiders@Minn            $65

Bears@Skins              $38

 

But thee kicker is the Arizona Home game vs the Panthers

 

Not a seat in the upper bowl ABOVE $16!!!!!!

 

I know they always talk about Buffalo not being an NFL size city with enough corps to buy Clubs and Luxury Boxes, but at some point doesn't a full house paying face make up for those revenues? And look way better on TV..thus driving ratings?

 

BTW, last week the Bills had at least 6K seats still available it looked like on Ticketmaster, only some stragglers left now.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As long as the TV money keeps flowing NFL will want smaller luxury stadiums full of suites. 

[ddaryl]

2 hours ago, Limeaid said:

 

Isn't so lucky that you had one of your favorites to add?

Luckily for us you cannot post one of the nudes ones for that.

 

 

oh there is plenty of Peterpan guy...… I can't remember who started that game but I still get a kick out of it. 

[Augie]

5 hours ago, apuszczalowski said:

But what's the tailgate situation like at home? If you drink that much in a stadium parking lot you're a 'hardcore fan', drink that much on your couch and you're an 'alcoholic'.....

 

At home......there is nobody else to judge me! The dog ain’t talking! ?

[JaCrispy]

On 9/19/2019 at 12:46 PM, RoyBatty is alive said:

The concept that the NFL and football popularity will increase forever maybe be coming to an end.

Especially when we are spoon fed the Patriots for 20 straight years...?

[notwoz]

3 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

 

As long as the TV money keeps flowing NFL will want smaller luxury stadiums full of suites. 

That pretty much sums it up. The teams have to split the revenue from regular seats, but get to keep all the revenue from the suites. 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

There will be five college games this weekend that all with have NCAA playoff implications. All should be good.  

Michigan Wisconsin and ND Georgia will be better than all but maybe 3 or 4 NFL games. 

There will be zero casual NFL fans watching Bills Bengals. 

Now if Buffalo gets to 5-1 or 6-1 then the casual fan will start to take notice.

[Nick the Greek]

And the Ralph is always sold out early in the season! It’s usually sold out until December, especially if the team is bad.

 

that why moving the Bills never made any sense to me. A passion, dedicated fan base cannot be created over night. And that why Bills fans are #1 

[GreggTX]

On 9/19/2019 at 11:34 AM, plenzmd1 said:

I have been noticing tons of empty seats in most of the games on TV lately, and when I went in to place my picks this week,  here are the walk in prices to some  games  i was presented  with, all non standing room

 

Tenn @ jacksonville  $25 

Atl@ Colts                   $28

Raiders@Minn            $65

Bears@Skins              $38

 

But thee kicker is the Arizona Home game vs the Panthers

 

Not a seat in the upper bowl ABOVE $16!!!!!!

 

I know they always talk about Buffalo not being an NFL size city with enough corps to buy Clubs and Luxury Boxes, but at some point doesn't a full house paying face make up for those revenues? And look way better on TV..thus driving ratings?

 

BTW, last week the Bills had at least 6K seats still available it looked like on Ticketmaster, only some stragglers left now.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The middle class went bye bye. Most people can't afford tix these days.

[LSHMEAB]

8 hours ago, PlayoffsPlease said:

In PA Online sports betting is now legal.  You can bet continuously on the game during the game. There are bets for each drive result. The moneyline and spreads update through out.  These game time wagers are quite a bit of fun.  It even makes a titans-jags game exciting.   I imagine that this point its a small group of people who do this.  But if you enjoy this sort of thing, you can follow 5 games at a time at home, while watching the Bills and rooting or betting on them.   This may not hurt the live attendance, but it wont help. 

Be nice if it were legal in NYS because those state laws track your phone/device and don't allow you to bet outside their jurisdiction. It would be kinda cool to be able to do this AT a Bills game. 

[ALF]

Big screen HDTV at home

[mjd1001]

On 9/19/2019 at 12:40 PM, ShipUPride said:

I've actually been wondering the same thing.  Week one, Jets/Bills, the stadium seemed half empty in the third quarter with the game still in reach.  I wonder if the tipping point has happened and more people prefer to stay at home.  Concessions and comfort are better at home.

For me the tipping point of staying home was in the early 2000's.  I had season tickets with a friend for years...and one day we were sitting outside at the Stadium during a December game...it was in the upper 30's...kinda windy..raining...and that day we BOTH had the same idea...we could be sitting at home eating food for less than half the price in a dry, heated living room.  That was the day.  The arrival of High-Def big screens cemented it for us.

 

The reality is..for many/most people, the gameday experience is better at home.  That is why a lot of stadiums and arenas are adding more restaurants, meeting areas, games for the kids on site.  The die-hards will still go to the games...but you need to keep adding more and more to get the casual fan to go to the stadium. I am now one of them.

[mjd1001]

On 9/19/2019 at 8:41 PM, thronethinker said:

NASCAR has been sinking since Earnhardt was killed at Daytona. He was the biggest draw and most popular/hated driver. NASCAR never got another driver with that type of draw. 

 

I lived in Daytona Beach in the early 2000s..and was a big fan of Nascar at the time.  I'd say the popularity of Nascar kept going up a few years past the death of Dale Sr.  Through at least 2004 or 2005, a ticket to the Daytona could hardly be found for list price.  I think it was sometime around 2008-2010 that interest dropped off a bit.

 

Dale Junior was just as popular as his dad (maybe not with the old-timers, but with the casual fan for sure).  Jeff Gordon was polarizing but he brought in a lot of fans and eyes to the TV.  I think Jimmy Johnson hurt the sport. When he started winning a lot...he just had so little personality...on the track or off.  Add that to the car-of-tomorrow fiasco...and the whole playoff thing (we watch Nascar to see who wins EACH race...not to have a made-up playoff system pushed on us,) and I think the decline of the sport really started about 2008...and accelerated dramatically from 2012 on.

[bbb]

3 hours ago, mjd1001 said:

 

I lived in Daytona Beach in the early 2000s..and was a big fan of Nascar at the time.  I'd say the popularity of Nascar kept going up a few years past the death of Dale Sr.  Through at least 2004 or 2005, a ticket to the Daytona could hardly be found for list price.  I think it was sometime around 2008-2010 that interest dropped off a bit.

 

Dale Junior was just as popular as his dad (maybe not with the old-timers, but with the casual fan for sure).  Jeff Gordon was polarizing but he brought in a lot of fans and eyes to the TV.  I think Jimmy Johnson hurt the sport. When he started winning a lot...he just had so little personality...on the track or off.  Add that to the car-of-tomorrow fiasco...and the whole playoff thing (we watch Nascar to see who wins EACH race...not to have a made-up playoff system pushed on us,) and I think the decline of the sport really started about 2008...and accelerated dramatically from 2012 on.

 

You're spot on.  In addition to the factors you mentioned,  the Great Recession hurt NASCAR more than any other sport.  It's so built on sponsorship and sponsoring motor sports was one of the first things companies cut when they were hurting so bad

[CIrvine]

On September 19, 2019 at 11:18 AM, vorpma said:

Do not underestimate the impact of the anthem protests two years ago, the Antonio Brown drama and others, and the fact millennials are really not pure football fans. Certain cities such as Green Bay and Buffalo view teams as tradition, part of culture, family, growing up, through generations; how long that holds up I have no idea. But the NFL owners and players better start paying attention to the empty seats and come up with the right answer then address as needed.

 

I have friends across the country that spend big money on college but will not turn the NFL on; why?

In 1984 I attended Rams and Falcons at the LA collesium  with Eric Dickerson in his prime; lots of empty seats and those in attendance appeared bored.

The Rams played in Anaheim in 1984.

[vorpma]

5 hours ago, CIrvine said:

The Rams played in Anaheim in 1984.

Wherever the hell it was, I was there as a guest of the LA Rams with sixty soldiers!

[Chandler#81]

11 hours ago, mjd1001 said:

 

I lived in Daytona Beach in the early 2000s..and was a big fan of Nascar at the time.  I'd say the popularity of Nascar kept going up a few years past the death of Dale Sr.  Through at least 2004 or 2005, a ticket to the Daytona could hardly be found for list price.  I think it was sometime around 2008-2010 that interest dropped off a bit.

 

Dale Junior was just as popular as his dad (maybe not with the old-timers, but with the casual fan for sure).  Jeff Gordon was polarizing but he brought in a lot of fans and eyes to the TV.  I think Jimmy Johnson hurt the sport. When he started winning a lot...he just had so little personality...on the track or off.  Add that to the car-of-tomorrow fiasco...and the whole playoff thing (we watch Nascar to see who wins EACH race...not to have a made-up playoff system pushed on us,) and I think the decline of the sport really started about 2008...and accelerated dramatically from 2012 on.

 

If this is true -and I seriously doubt it!, wth did Jr. ever do to warrant such adoration? Answer: Nothing. He’s just the living heir to the Legend. I agree with the poster who said NASCAR fandemonium died at the wall that fateful day in Daytona. I haven’t watched a full race since.

[Mr. WEO]

5 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

 

If this is true -and I seriously doubt it!, wth did Jr. ever do to warrant such adoration? Answer: Nothing. He’s just the living heir to the Legend. I agree with the poster who said NASCAR fandemonium died at the wall that fateful day in Daytona. I haven’t watched a full race since.

 

Earnhardt's death actually was the beginning of the spike in NASCAR ratings.  Before he died in 2001, ratings were stagnant.  They would peak 4 years later.

[mannc]

15 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said:

There will be five college games this weekend that all with have NCAA playoff implications. All should be good.  

Michigan Wisconsin and ND Georgia will be better than all but maybe 3 or 4 NFL games. 

There will be zero casual NFL fans watching Bills Bengals. 

Now if Buffalo gets to 5-1 or 6-1 then the casual fan will start to take notice.

You’re not wrong, but Buffalo-Cinci will not air in a single TV market outside of upstate NY and southern Ohio/northern KY.

 

Funny that ND-UGA is being hyped.  UGA is a 14-point favorite.  In the NFL, that would be considered a colossal mismatch and probably not worth watching.

[Jrb1979]

They need to bring back the blackout rule. If you want to see your team play, watch them at the stadium. I think a new domed stadium downtown would be great. It draw in a lot of people that don't go to many games anymore since they don't have to deal with the elements 

[bbb]

6 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

 

If this is true -and I seriously doubt it!, wth did Jr. ever do to warrant such adoration? Answer: Nothing. He’s just the living heir to the Legend. I agree with the poster who said NASCAR fandemonium died at the wall that fateful day in Daytona. I haven’t watched a full race since.

 

i don't know enough about NASCAR to say how Jr. ranked with Sr. in popularity, but I do know that Jr. was THE most popular driver in NASCAR after Sr.'s death. 

[Punching Bag]

6 hours ago, Jrb1979 said:

They need to bring back the blackout rule. If you want to see your team play, watch them at the stadium. I think a new domed stadium downtown would be great. It draw in a lot of people that don't go to many games anymore since they don't have to deal with the elements 

 

It would allow them to put out wine and cheese spreads without danger of getting rained or snowed on.

PSLs of course are a bonus!

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

9 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

It would allow them to put out wine and cheese spreads without danger of getting rained or snowed on.

PSLs of course are a bonus!

 

...what is Bflo's share of ticket revenues for home games?..isn't there a split with the the visiting team?......do they keep 100% of concession sales, suite sales/suite food and beverage as well as parking?....

[Mr. WEO]

7 hours ago, Jrb1979 said:

They need to bring back the blackout rule. If you want to see your team play, watch them at the stadium. I think a new domed stadium downtown would be great. It draw in a lot of people that don't go to many games anymore since they don't have to deal with the elements 

 

Yes, make a move so that TV ratings go down and devalue the network contract and drop the salary cap going forward.  That will put fans in the New Era Dome!!

[T master]

A full house beats 3 of a kind right ? The house will be full & rocking in Buffalo today the NFL can have all their luxury stadiums with all their amenities i will take a stadium filled with true fans over the half full stadiums with all their perks any day !!

 

GO BILLS !!! 

Edited September 22, 2019 by T master

[row_33]

On 9/19/2019 at 11:03 PM, Augie said:

Attendance is one thing. Are there revenue woes? That’s the bottom line. What does the future look like?  ”Different” is fine, if you adapt. 

revenue is one part of the financial picture

 

its not what I would recommend using for the health of an entity

 

the bottom line, profit, is way more important than revenue

 

the more they scream revenue is going up up up the more I see a red flag

 

 

[plenzmd1]

Oh my, just pulled up the recording of the MNF game. The WHOLE upper deck is empty, Bears just scored a pick 6, and all you can hear is Lets Go Bears!

 

I went to plenty of games at Rich when 40K was considered a great day, and 20K was the norm. There may only be 20K Skins fans there tonight, and yes i am serious

[plenzmd1]

Walk in prices for all the games this week..only listing home teAMS

 

Green Bay  $68 ( man people do not ***** Thursday night games)

NYG            $69

Ravens       $79

Cots            $42

Houston    $42

Falcons      $52

Miami        $15

Rams         $16( huge stadium though)

Lions         $62

Cards         $44 (Seattle traveling)

Denver       $58

Steelers $36 ( they lost interest quick)

 

Then

New Orleans  $160

Bears               $155

 

And the Bills  $128

 

[Liberal Bob]

Trust me on this one … the reason that nfl and college FB attendance is down can be traced to mobile tickets. Not only do most of the over 40 crowd hate using them but lets not overlook how many big time ticket brokers and not buying them as they were in the past when using hard tickets. Many brokers like them or hate them helped sell out stadiums if they are not buying and this is what you get.

[JohninMinn.]

NFL will be extinct in 20 years. Football as a sport is doomed by dominant female households. Mom and dad don't want their son risking head injury. It's that simple.

[Gordio]

9 minutes ago, Liberal Bob said:

Trust me on this one … the reason that nfl and college FB attendance is down can be traced to mobile tickets. Not only do most of the over 40 crowd hate using them but lets not overlook how many big time ticket brokers and not buying them as they were in the past when using hard tickets. Many brokers like them or hate them helped sell out stadiums if they are not buying and this is what you get.

 

 

That is an interesting point.  The way they have the electronic tickets now pretty much has eliminated the scalper at the stadium.  Even this weeks game, a hot ticket, if you go on vivid seats/stub hub, there are seats available all over the stadium.  The fees they charge are ridiculous too.  For a pair of $110 seats($220 all together) your paying almost $80 in fees.  That is highway robbery.  Prices are dropping & I think they will continue to drop as we get closer to Sunday.

[zow2]

17 minutes ago, Liberal Bob said:

Trust me on this one … the reason that nfl and college FB attendance is down can be traced to mobile tickets. Not only do most of the over 40 crowd hate using them but lets not overlook how many big time ticket brokers and not buying them as they were in the past when using hard tickets. Many brokers like them or hate them helped sell out stadiums if they are not buying and this is what you get.

 

I agree for the most part.  There are other factors too.  But I have season tickets for another major team (not in Buffalo) and since mobile-only tickets have been introduced my ability to sell the tix has been greatly hampered.  Buyers are gone.