Should we Trade Zay Jones?

[Alphadawg7]

1 minute ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

Good luck, man. Good thing for you drops don’t hurt your fantasy stock, otherwise you’d be lost. 

 

...I couldn’t help myself. 

 

The only fantasy I see around here is your fantasy that Zay didnt drop passes 

[Reks Ryan]

11 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

He won't get cut over cap savings...if he is cut/traded its because they feel someone else deserves the shot more than him.  People keep bringing up his low pay while overlooking that guys competing for his spot are just as cheap.  His contract has 0% relevancy right now on whether he makes this roster.  The guy who suit up week 1 with notable contracts are literal locks for this roster, Brown and Cole.  Everyone else is cheap too...so Zay will only be on this team if the staff deems they WANT to keep him over one of the other guys.  

 

 

LMAO...its on film dude.  I laugh so hard at this unwavering insistent the FILM never happened when you can watch it right now.  No offense, but you denying in game footage of him dropping passes is about the most absurd thing I have ever seen on this board.  Its 100% indisputable...like literally 100%.  Keep trying though, respect to the commitment of utter blindness.  

That is a good point about contracts of the other WRs on the roster below Brown and Cole.   I had not fully considered that. 

 

Zay's analytics (catch rate, etc) all had significant imrovements from 2017 to 2018, which brought him from poor to average among NFL WRs in 2018.  The Bills know that they currently at least have a competent NFL receiver with a chance to improve to above average starter in his 3rd year.   If they move on from him, it has to be with the idea that another WR they might otherwise cut (Duke, Foster, McKenzie) will at least be able to match the average production with higher upside.   

 

 

[Alphadawg7]

1 minute ago, Reks Ryan said:

That is a good point about contracts of the other WRs on the roster below Brown and Cole.   I had not fully considered that. 

 

Zay's analytics (catch rate, etc) all had significant imrovements from 2017 to 2018, which brought him from poor to average among NFL WRs in 2018.  The Bills know that they currently at least have a competent NFL receiver with a chance to improve to above average starter in his 3rd year.   If they move on from him, it has to be with the idea that another WR they might otherwise cut (Duke, Foster, McKenzie) will at least be able to match the average production with higher upside.   

 

 

 

Yup, and this was the basis of my February thread too.  

 

At this point, contracts will not factor into who they keep.  They are all cheap that are competing for a spot and it will be the guys they feel are best suited for the team.

[Chandler#81]

3 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Yup, and this was the basis of my February thread too.  

 

At this point, contracts will not factor into who they keep.  They are all cheap that are competing for a spot and it will be the guys they feel are best suited for the team.

Which lies in wait to be resurrected when/if he finds his way out of town on in the starting lineup.?

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

..FIRST inclination I've seen about "trade Zay".....how or why did this come about??.........

[BuffaninATL]

1 hour ago, The Jokeman said:

 Not sure Roberts a lock. As McKenzie can return punts and has shown to be a playmaker on offense.

 

 

c'mon now

[JohnC]

2 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Yup, and this was the basis of my February thread too.  

 

At this point, contracts will not factor into who they keep.  They are all cheap that are competing for a spot and it will be the guys they feel are best suited for the team.

I'm a Zay supporter but not delusional about him. He is at best a non-descript possession receiver. Will he get cut? I don't believe so. The issue for Zay is what is his worth? Under his current contract he has value. But when his contract expires he is not the type of receiver you will heavily pay for or worry about losing. If Zay doesn't become more consistent as a receiver (too many drops) the organization's decision about him will be easily made.  

[JohnC]

1 minute ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

..FIRST inclination I've seen about "trade Zay".....how or why did this come about??......…

It has come about because of an accumulation of unimpressive performances. Not necessarily noticeably bad but also not noticeably good. When you are primarily a possession receiver and are not particularly elusive, and you are inconsistent in catching the ball then you will have placed yourself in a precarious position. I still believe that he will make the roster but have less belief that he will be an impacting player.  

[NickelCity]

2 hours ago, eee1776 said:

Yes-cut him. That holding call last night killed a nice run by McCoy. I believe 24 yards.

 

I'd trade him too. That said, the hold played a considerable role in that 24 yard scamper.

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

I mean, this happens every year. The get rid of zay takes are about as silly as the Wade should made the 53 takes. I mean, these are just not serious takes.

 

If I told you at the beginning of the offseason that Zay would be playing special teams and deep into the 3rd preseason game you wouldn't have thought that was a serious take. They are putting him on the spot lately.

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

3 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

If I told you at the beginning of the offseason that Zay would be playing special teams and deep into the 3rd preseason game you wouldn't have thought that was a serious take. They are putting him on the spot lately.

I think what is happening is they want to keep extra WRs, so they need zay and others to play gunner. I think they keep fewer dbs for that reason. Zay is better suited for it then brown, Beasley, mac, or duke. And since zay isn’t a number 1, he is a good choice.

[HappyDays]

59 minutes ago, skibum said:

he has a rapport with Josh Allen.

 

He does? I couldnt disagree more. They are rarely on the same page.

Just now, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

I think what is happening is they want to keep extra WRs, so they need zay and others to play gunner. I think they keep fewer dbs for that reason. Zay is better suited for it then brown, Beasley, mac, or duke. And since zay isn’t a number 1, he is a good choice.

 

Okay but why is Zay still playing in the 3rd quarter with Barkley throwing him the ball? How many roster locks at receiver are still playing with backups in preseason? The only 3 locks right now are Brown, Beasley, and Roberts. I'm starting to feel like McKenzie is a lock too. Nothing else would surprise me.

[Buffalo Boy]

    If they were willing to move on from Watkins this seems like a no- brainer. Duke Williams is out there making plays. Foster did last year too.

    When he was brought in , it was to be an immediate starter as I remember.

    Three years in and he doesn’t look like a legitimate 3 receiver. 

 

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

5 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

He does? I couldnt disagree more. They are rarely on the same page.

 

Okay but why is Zay still playing in the 3rd quarter with Barkley throwing him the ball? How many roster locks at receiver are still playing with backups in preseason? The only 3 locks right now are Brown, Beasley, and Roberts. I'm starting to feel like McKenzie is a lock too. Nothing else would surprise me.

To your first point, zay has more receptions from Allen than any other receiver. To your second, I just don’t find it that meaningful. If zay wasn’t the starting wr the entire year, I would read into it. But he has been, and remains, the first wr on the field at every turn. He also had like four more snaps than brown. It’s not a huge discrepancy. 

Edited August 24, 2019 by JoshAllenHasBigHands

[DCbillsfan]

23 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

..FIRST inclination I've seen about "trade Zay".....how or why did this come about??.........

 Zay played late into 4th quarter hence the speculation and in some cases the enthusiasm for said trade.  Personally I don't see it nor him getting cut. 

[GreggTX]

If you can make a trade that makes our WR corps better this year, then go ahead. Good luck with that.

[HappyDays]

2 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

To your first point, zay has more receptions from Allen than any other receiver.

 

This is a testament to how bad our receivers were last year. There is a reason they brought in multiple free agents at the position.

 

4 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

To your second, I just don’t find it that meaningful. If zay wasn’t the starting wr the entire year, I would read into it. But he has been, and remains, the first wr on the field at every turn. He also had like four more snaps than brown. It’s not a huge discrepancy. 

 

Brown and Beasley are the only 2 receivers that have consistently been the starters. There is no question about their status on the team. Zay is getting subbed out for Roberts, Phillips, and the other 2nd string guys. He has not locked anything down at this point. Brown got nearly as many as snaps because he is always on the field with the starters and Zay is not. Zay is getting special teams and backup reps. I don't know how you can say he is a lock. My money would still be on him making the team but a trade wouldn't surprise me at all.

 

Read this blurb and tell me Zay doesn't know he is in trouble:

 

https://theathletic.com/1159248/2019/08/24/did-duke-williams-earn-a-roster-spot-whats-up-with-zay-jones-questions-abound-for-bills-receivers/

 

“I don’t know,” Jones said when asked what he makes of his role on special teams. “I don’t really know quite what to make of it. I’m just trying to do my role, whatever they tell me to do.”

“He’s a team-first guy and very unselfish in his approach,” McDermott said earlier this week. “He’s done everything we’ve asked and embraced his new role and playing special teams. We’re still defining roles at this point. I’ve been very appreciative of the way he’s handled it, and he continues to play tough football out there.”

 

What is Zay's "new role?" Somewhere along the way he has fallen out of favor with this coaching staff. He'll still probably make the team but let's be honest, he isn't going to be a cornerstone at this point. And anyone that isn't a cornerstone has their roster spot in jeopardy moving forward.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

Zay has no trade value at this time.  

 

He either performs or he gets cut.   

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

2 hours ago, dollars 2 donuts said:

Not for nothing, but Zay also punched my dog, hates the Toy Story movies and eats his wings with Russian dressing.

 

No one will even trade a practice squad guy for him if this gets out.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

This is a testament to how bad our receivers were last year. There is a reason they brought in multiple free agents at the position.

 

 

Brown and Beasley are the only 2 receivers that have consistently been the starters. There is no question about their status on the team. Zay is getting subbed out for Roberts, Phillips, and the other 2nd string guys. He has not locked anything down at this point. Brown got nearly as many as snaps because he is always on the field with the starters and Zay is not. Zay is getting special teams and backup reps. I don't know how you can say he is a lock. My money would still be on him making the team but a trade wouldn't surprise me at all.

 

Read this blurb and tell me Zay doesn't know he is in trouble:

 

https://theathletic.com/1159248/2019/08/24/did-duke-williams-earn-a-roster-spot-whats-up-with-zay-jones-questions-abound-for-bills-receivers/

 

 

 

 

 

 

What is Zay's "new role?" Somewhere along the way he has fallen out of favor with this coaching staff. He'll still probably make the team but let's be honest, he isn't going to be a cornerstone at this point. And anyone that isn't a cornerstone has their roster spot in jeopardy moving forward.

#3 WR and ST...  more blocking? 

 

And I must have watched a different game last night than everyone else. I thought Zay played just fine. Duke is the only WR on the team that wins that block on a LB, he had a nice RAC after a crosser and deep catch. As the #3, and starting outside WR, I don’t get the hate and I’m not sure who people think is better. So 3 catches on 4 targets and the one miss, was that one catchable? 

 

 

 

Also the legend of Robert Foster seems that it may be coming to a close soon.  

Edited August 24, 2019 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[Mike in Horseheads]

Should we trade Bob Foster? 1 catch 14 yds meh

[reddogblitz]

IF we can trade him we absolutely should.  If not, which I expect, then cut him and keep Duke instead.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

3 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

IF we can trade him we absolutely should.  If not, which I expect, then cut him and keep Duke instead.

 

I didn’t know what to expect from Duke. Looks like a powerful dude. Wonder how he and Josh work together?

 

might have a shot at the roster over Foster for sure. 

Edited August 24, 2019 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[Reader]

The question has such a simple answer.

 

If Zay is one of the 6 best WR's on this team, (Or 7 if they keep 7) then no

 

If Zay is not one of the 6 best WR"s on this team, then yes.

 

The last thing I want is for McBeane to give into the sunk cost fallacy simply because Zay was a 2nd round pick.

[Thurman#1]

2 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

This is a testament to how bad our receivers were last year. There is a reason they brought in multiple free agents at the position.

 

 

Brown and Beasley are the only 2 receivers that have consistently been the starters. There is no question about their status on the team. Zay is getting subbed out for Roberts, Phillips, and the other 2nd string guys. He has not locked anything down at this point. Brown got nearly as many as snaps because he is always on the field with the starters and Zay is not. Zay is getting special teams and backup reps. I don't know how you can say he is a lock. My money would still be on him making the team but a trade wouldn't surprise me at all.

 

Read this blurb and tell me Zay doesn't know he is in trouble:

 

https://theathletic.com/1159248/2019/08/24/did-duke-williams-earn-a-roster-spot-whats-up-with-zay-jones-questions-abound-for-bills-receivers/

 

What is Zay's "new role?" Somewhere along the way he has fallen out of favor with this coaching staff. He'll still probably make the team but let's be honest, he isn't going to be a cornerstone at this point. And anyone that isn't a cornerstone has their roster spot in jeopardy moving forward.

 

 

 

I read the whole story, and ... dude, Zay doesn't know he's in trouble.

 

Does he need to continue to improve? Sure. But he has. And there aren't more than about 5 guys on this team who don't need to continue to improve. Zay more than many of them as he's still early in his career arc.

 

But there's simply no way to know at this point whether he's going to be a cornerstone. It depends on what he becomes ... and like most guys this early, we just don't know that. We're talking about a guy who has been here two years and who missed most of the offseason both of those two years. We don't know what Zay will be. Not being a cornerstone is surely the way to bet, but it could happen. As for "fallen out of favor with this coaching staff," that also is far from clear.

 

We should get a much better picture as the season progresses, assuming he's here, which seems by far the most likely alternative.

 

 

 

 

 

This quote from Buscaglia, on the Athletic says it best:

 

"The Bills need an answer on Jones following the season. They need to figure out if he’s going to be a part of their core offense or if they need to find a long-term replacement. They’ve liked everything Jones did in the offseason and how he’s improved as a route runner since entering the league. However, to think the Bills made that decision on Jones before the season even began is just a tad over the top. Like it or not, Jones will have a role on offense in 2019."

 

https://theathletic.com/1159291/2019/08/24/seven-observations-from-the-bills-win-over-the-lions-josh-allen-leaves-the-fan-base-hanging-dawson-knox-surprises/

 

 

Edited August 24, 2019 by Thurman#1

[yungmack]

Seems to me Foster is far more likely to be cut than Jones.

[Thurman#1]

2 hours ago, Buffalo Boy said:

    If they were willing to move on from Watkins this seems like a no- brainer. Duke Williams is out there making plays. Foster did last year too.

    When he was brought in , it was to be an immediate starter as I remember.

    Three years in and he doesn’t look like a legitimate 3 receiver. 

 

 

 

Yeah, but moving on from Watkins happened for two reasons, neither of which is true now with Zay.

 

They were in major salary cap trouble and figured - correctly - that re-signing Watkins was going to cost huge money. Zay won't cost all that much unless he has a tremendous year this year. And the team isn't in the salary cap weeds anymore anyway.

 

And Watkins brought in a 2nd round pick, which Zay wouldn't. And at the time we were desperate for trade capital to draft a franchise QB. At this point we've got Allen.

 

The main reasons we traded Watkins aren't there anymore if we trade Zay.

 

Not that we won't, but trading Watkins had two huge upsides that aren't there with trading Zay.

[T master]

Although last year he was doing okay I've never really took to him he is a smooth talker & to me & possibly me only that sends up a red flag . I'm not saying that he could contribute in some way but i think there are others that could give more to the team in that position .

 

Foster has a lot more speed & they are trying to break him into the ST's which Jones is too but Foster has shown more in his one season than Jones has in 2 so my vote is to let Jones go & keep Foster !! 

[2ForMacAdoo]

12 minutes ago, yungmack said:

Seems to me Foster is far more likely to be cut than Jones.

Unfortunately, this seems painfully too clear to me at this point. I don't claim to have any special insight on Foster's status with this coaching staff but his total lack of production this preseason makes me wonder how much the Alabama UDFA wants to be here. With the highlight reel Foster put together last year (along with the 20 yards per reception average which put him in elite company), he knows that if cut, he will be immediately scooped up by another team. So it's not like last year when being released and then placed on the practice squad were a wake-up call for him and his NFL future. This time around, Foster will have other options and he knows that. Sadly I think he's as good as gone.

[Dablitzkrieg]

Zay is horrible.  I'd rather have Duke Williams at this point.  He may be slower, but his hands are much better, he's bigger and stronger

[DuckyBoys]

31 minutes ago, Reader said:

The question has such a simple answer.

 

If Zay is one of the 6 best WR's on this team, (Or 7 if they keep 7) then no

 

If Zay is not one of the 6 best WR"s on this team, then yes.

 

The last thing I want is for McBeane to give into the sunk cost fallacy simply because Zay was a 2nd round pick.

Given all the Panthers we have here you have to believe McD likes his picked guys and Zay was a McD tenure early round pick  Speaking of which, someone please justify how DiMarco is on this team yet again

[3rdand12]

4 hours ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

But the counter argument to that is after he got cut by was it the Rams, no other teams jumped up and signed him then either.

 

Evaluate who guys are now you say.  Well Williams is a guy who couldn't make an NFL roster the last two years.

 

I do have to give Zay somewhat of a pass as the past two seasons QB play has been such a mess, easy to have mistakes and miscommunications

 

Personally I'd rather let see them cut Foster if we want to make room for both.

i think you missed the point  : )

4 hours ago, Drunken Pygmy Goat said:

 

This makes sense. Zay has certainly become the new "whipping boy" for Bills fans. I get that he's had a few gaffes, and a naked bloody escapade, but his production last season (considering the circumstances) probably won't be matched by Foster, Williams, or McKenzie.

why not ?

[Ethan in Cleveland]

He just can't catch the ball cleanly.  Even on the diving sideline catch last night he misjudged the ball and caught it with his forearms and not his hands.  Route running and coverage recognition gets better with experience. I'm not sure catching the ball does.  That said he is cheap and there is little difference between him and then next 4 guys.  I don't care much one way or another.  I would keep Foster as my #3 as you can't coach speed.  I would cut DiMarco to make room for Roberts as a Special Teams player and still keep 5 WR - Brown, Beasley, Foster, Williams, McKenzie and Jones.  If they keep DiMarco and Roberts, then I only keep 4 more WR and at this point I would keep Williams over Jones.  

 

Jones would net a conditional 6th at best if that.  

[Giuseppe Tognarelli]

I am very confused about what's going to happen with these receivers. It's hard to read into all of the pieces of evidence as they all seem to conflict with each other.

[Patrick Duffy]

56 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

 

I read the whole story, and ... dude, Zay doesn't know he's in trouble.

 

Does he need to continue to improve? Sure. But he has. And there aren't more than about 5 guys on this team who don't need to continue to improve. Zay more than many of them as he's still early in his career arc.

 

But there's simply no way to know at this point whether he's going to be a cornerstone. It depends on what he becomes ... and like most guys this early, we just don't know that. We're talking about a guy who has been here two years and who missed most of the offseason both of those two years. We don't know what Zay will be. Not being a cornerstone is surely the way to bet, but it could happen. As for "fallen out of favor with this coaching staff," that also is far from clear.

 

We should get a much better picture as the season progresses, assuming he's here, which seems by far the most likely alternative.

 

 

 

 

 

This quote from Buscaglia, on the Athletic says it best:

 

"The Bills need an answer on Jones following the season. They need to figure out if he’s going to be a part of their core offense or if they need to find a long-term replacement. They’ve liked everything Jones did in the offseason and how he’s improved as a route runner since entering the league. However, to think the Bills made that decision on Jones before the season even began is just a tad over the top. Like it or not, Jones will have a role on offense in 2019."

 

https://theathletic.com/1159291/2019/08/24/seven-observations-from-the-bills-win-over-the-lions-josh-allen-leaves-the-fan-base-hanging-dawson-knox-surprises/

 

 

 

That's also just his opinion. I don't know if Zay will be on the 53 or not. These WR's are making it tough as far as coaches decisions on who to keep. Could I see them possible attempting to trade Zay? Yes, if they could get anything, but I'm not sure they could.

 

I can also see them possibly cutting him, and of course he could still make the 53. We don't know yet, but we will soon enough. However IMO I would rather have Duke make it before Zay all day long. But that's just me.

Edited August 24, 2019 by Patrick_Duffy

[3rdand12]

3 hours ago, JohnC said:

It has come about because of an accumulation of unimpressive performances. Not necessarily noticeably bad but also not noticeably good. When you are primarily a possession receiver and are not particularly elusive, and you are inconsistent in catching the ball then you will have placed yourself in a precarious position. I still believe that he will make the roster but have less belief that he will be an impacting player.  

always so succint my friend.
your response to Old times sarcasm is classic.

 well done

3 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

If I told you at the beginning of the offseason that Zay would be playing special teams and deep into the 3rd preseason game you wouldn't have thought that was a serious take. They are putting him on the spot lately.

This is the key to what OBD thinks of his skill set and abilities.
he is trying to survive by making teams.

nuff said

[3rdand12]

16 minutes ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said:

I am very confused about what's going to happen with these receivers. It's hard to read into all of the pieces of evidence as they all seem to conflict with each other.

i think many of us feel that after Cole and Smokey there is a pot stirring.
what comes of it?
 

 I have never been a Zay fan .His college Coach likely got him on the Bills.
But he has gotten so off. I wonder if he is being treated medicinally for issues.

When he alligatored the pass against Panthers and took the he hit because  of that , i realized he did not have "it".

he is not a football player

[bigK14094]

We should recall that Bean/McD traded for Kelvin Benjamin to make plays like Williams is making.  I wonder if the appeal to those two decision makers of the big body receiver still is hanging around.

[3rdand12]

5 minutes ago, bigK14094 said:

We should recall that Bean/McD traded for Kelvin Benjamin to make plays like Williams is making.  I wonder if the appeal to those two decision makers of the big body receiver still is hanging around.

of course ! good point

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

59 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

i think you missed the point  : )

why not ?

 

 

My point was You stated "Evaluate who guys are now" So I am and Williams is a guy who couldn't even get signed by an NFL team the past two seasons, which does translate to who he still may be.  And if you want to take it to the nth degree of who they are at this moment in time Williams is a guy who has caught two TD passes in the past two weeks likely against many other both teammates and opponents who won't even be on an NFL roster a week from now but sounds like your argument is none of that matters, sign everyone based on what they've done the past three weeks

 

And as to your why not question the answer is none of them could do it last season, but Zay could.  The others all had a chance to, but failed.

 

And if you want to use this argument that nothing in the past matters only what has happened over the past two weeks, then guess John Brown doesn't even make the roster as he only has 3 catches this year and definitely not Foster as he only has one catch and the leading TE is Keith Towbridge so guess he's on the team too then if all you want to go by is what they did now.  And BTW Zay's total yardage and yards per catch is better than Duke's too.

 

PS Look at what N Peterman has done this pre season.  He's lighting it up, guess you'd be happy trading him for Allan because that's all that matters to you.

 

Could it all change and Williams becomes the next Jerry Rice, sure but not likely based on past performance.

Edited August 24, 2019 by Ed_Formerly_of_Roch