Bills Training Camp: Day 4 - 7/28

[Warcodered]

5 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

particularly when josh got into street ball mode.

I'm pretty sure most of his best plays with Josh were from the pocket, I mean both of those long touchdowns were and I might have to look back to be sure but I think several of his others were as well.

 

6 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

what if Foster can’t and won’t do ST, and Roberts shows he can run the 9 and deep cross just as well. Then say the like what Duke uniquely offers and one of the two rooks

So what if 3 of the other WRs out perform him? I just don't see that happening.

[K-9]

1 hour ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

Agree. See.. CJ Spiller. 

 

There is a very, very long list of Elite and historically great RBs without straight line top gear speed and even in today’s NFL. Shady was always a 4.5 guy.  Gore is like a 4.6 guy, but always has been... I belive Bell is in there too. Barry Sanders never won any straight line sprints. 

 

Quickness, Acceleration, balance, vision, power, intelligence, awareness, speed are all attributes.  Any number of possible combinations of strengths  can compensate for weakenesses in others. 

 

Singletary might be one of these.

 

Also at 5’7” and 200# I don’t think he’s going to be frail.  

 

 

 

Agree entirely except for the bold text. Sanders ran in the 4.3s, so he had plenty of top end speed. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

3 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

I'm pretty sure most of his best plays with Josh were from the pocket, I mean both of those long touchdowns were and I might have to look back to be sure but I think several of his others were as well.

 

So what if 3 of the other WRs out perform him? I just don't see that happening.

 

I’m actually thinking of something a little differently. If the entire offense was, snap the ball and outrun the coverage, he’s the second best player on the team.

 

but if it’s complicated with lots of checks, adjustments and reads to be in synch with QB and others... purely exceptional athletes might still lose out to those that have awesome attitudes, put in work and don’t make errors. And let’s face it, there are huge differences between these guys at this level particularly the second tier. 

2 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Agree entirely except for the bold text. Sanders ran in the 4.3s, so he had plenty of top end speed. 

 Yep- already was corrected on that to my dismay. I’ll edit to help. 

[K-9]

1 minute ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

I’m actually thinking of something a little differently. If the entire offense was, snap the ball and outrun the coverage, he’s the second best player on the team.

 

but if it’s complicated with lots of checks, adjustments and reads to be in synch with QB and others... purely exceptional athletes might still lose out to those that have awesome attitudes, put in work and don’t make errors. And let’s face it, there are huge differences between these guys at this level particularly the second tier. 

 Yep- already was corrected on that to my dismay. I’ll edit to help. 

Hadn’t read that post before I posted myself. 

 

Anyway, I think you’re spot on regarding RBs and the importance of top end speed. It’s a “nice” to have, not a “need” to have. I’d bet Singletary and other backs like him would hold their own in 10 yard split times. 

[PromoTheRobot]

34 minutes ago, auburnbillsbacker said:

It's funny how 4 practices have made this group forgot about the great half of a season Foster had last year.  If he leaves we lose and another team wins.

 

No one forgot. But last year is last year. Foster was the best of a motley crew. Now the Bills have better receivers and the challenge for Foster is to elevate his game. I would think that's obvious with how McBeane signed players to compete at several positions including WR. There are no legacy roster spots anymore.

[Mat68]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Hmm. You think Beasley will be in when they are in 21 and 12? 86% of his reps last year in Dallas were in the slot. I get that he is a pros pro and a leader in that room I have just never seem him as a productive outside guy. 

Yes.  Daboll will be more imaginative with his personal and alignments than Garrett.  2 TEs.  Knox and Croom?  Knox and Kraft?  I dont expect Buffalo to line up in a mirror formation without motion and snap the ball. 

 

I think you will see Knox and Croom lined up all over the formation. Yes its 21 personal and they will find ways to get Beasley in a slot position at snap.  Look and NE. Dabolls breeding ground.

 

From Troy Smith to Deon Branch to Wes Welker to Ammendola to Julian Edleman.  They find ways to get their slot Wr in a favorable match up and move him to ensure he has a free release.  Beasley is going to see this alot.

Edited July 28, 2019 by Mat68

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

 "I don't think this will end well".....

 

That was the intended meaning, yes.

 

[Dablitzkrieg]

Foster did not look good at all today.  Lots of drops and his body language appeared like he was getting down on himself.  Hopefully he can step it up.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

10 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

 

So sad it has now taken 4 days of Practice and one of those in pads and the flagship station of WGR finally covers a live practice. 

 

Only because its the weekend.

 

 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

9 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

 

Rest day?? They have the next two days off.

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Sal's take on Day 4:
https://wgr550.radio.com/articles/opinion/capaccio-allen-having-more-ups-downs-through-first-four-days-camp

Erik Turner of Cover1 take on Day 4:
https://www.cover1.net/bills-training-camp-josh-allen-devin-singletary/
[Edit: my apologies, this require a subscription or at least registration]
 

6 minutes ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

Rest day?? They have the next two days off.

 

Only one.  They have practice Tues, but it's closed to the public.

 

42 minutes ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

Foster did not look good at all today.  Lots of drops and his body language appeared like he was getting down on himself.  Hopefully he can step it up.

 

Hopefully that's part of what McDermott was trying to achieve, to say you are not the only 2nd year player who had some rookie success to go through this.

We need you to evolve, but you can...you can!

Also if it's "family", hopefully Shady and others will talk to him.

[StHustle]

He doesn't have breakaway speed so as long as downfield blocking is on point he will have a top 5-10 rushing season.

 

This is Shady's last year UNLESS he proves he still has it (even if only in consistent flashes) AND the Bills look like real contenders. He may sign a 2 year deal on the cheap. A discount is a must tho. 

[Green Lightning]

I haven't been to TC yet but friends who have tell me, and from reading Astros notes, there seems to be a different vibe and a purposeful attention to detail beyond anything they've seen before. I've been trying not to get too pumped up, (as I have  for the past 50 years)  but it's hard not to get excited hearing these reports. I'm traveling another week for work but can't wait to hit camp and see it for myself!

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 minute ago, Green Lightning said:

I haven't been to TC yet but friends who have tell me, and from reading Astros notes, there seems to be a different vibe and a purposeful attention to detail beyond anything they've seen before. I've been trying not to get too pumped up, (as I have  for the past 50 years)  but it's hard not to get excited hearing these reports. I'm traveling another week for work but can't wait to hit camp and see it for myself!

 

I know exactly what you mean.

[Shaw66]

9 minutes ago, Green Lightning said:

I haven't been to TC yet but friends who have tell me, and from reading Astros notes, there seems to be a different vibe and a purposeful attention to detail beyond anything they've seen before. I've been trying not to get too pumped up, (as I have  for the past 50 years)  but it's hard not to get excited hearing these reports. I'm traveling another week for work but can't wait to hit camp and see it for myself!

It's the process. People pooh pooh it, but McDernott believes that he can win consistently by getting everyone committed to teamwork and total hard work.  Everyone executes, no one makes mistakes. Do it for your teammates. 

 

Time will tell whether the process and Josh Allen is all he needs. 

[aceman_16]

1 hour ago, Green Lightning said:

I haven't been to TC yet but friends who have tell me, and from reading Astros notes, there seems to be a different vibe and a purposeful attention to detail beyond anything they've seen before. I've been trying not to get too pumped up, (as I have  for the past 50 years)  but it's hard not to get excited hearing these reports. I'm traveling another week for work but can't wait to hit camp and see it for myself!

I have gone to St. John Fishers training camp for the last 15 or so years. There absolutely a smooth precise feeling about this one. I just dont see a lot of ineffective/inefficient stuff going on. In terms of this year vs last year...there seems to be much more individualized teaching going on. The coaches "seem" to be having fun while looking confident. However, it could just be the team has more competent/experienced players and the staff has had another year of continuity.

[YoloinOhio]

 

[BeginnersMind]

11 hours ago, aceman_16 said:

I have gone to St. John Fishers training camp for the last 15 or so years. There absolutely a smooth precise feeling about this one. I just dont see a lot of ineffective/inefficient stuff going on. In terms of this year vs last year...there seems to be much more individualized teaching going on. The coaches "seem" to be having fun while looking confident. However, it could just be the team has more competent/experienced players and the staff has had another year of continuity.

 

It’s almost like continuity matters.

 

The coaching and GM carousel is a guaranteed disaster. That doesn’t mean you don’t fire the bad ones, but just that we need to be patient. Plenty of people—heck tons of people—wanted McBeane fired when they traded Dareus for next to nothing. 

 

And now here we are. Out of cap hell for the first time in forever. Evaluating a potential franchise QB (too early but he shows promise). 

 

And the coaching staff returns. It’s great. I’m not sure McD is the next Belichek but we need a rudder in the water for a while and I hope he’s that guy. 

Edited July 29, 2019 by BeginnersMind

[Hapless Bills Fan]

6 minutes ago, aceman_16 said:

I have gone to St. John Fishers training camp for the last 15 or so years. There absolutely a smooth precise feeling about this one. I just dont see a lot of ineffective/inefficient stuff going on. In terms of this year vs last year...there seems to be much more individualized teaching going on. The coaches "seem" to be having fun while looking confident. However, it could just be the team has more competent/experienced players and the staff has had another year of continuity.

 

But actually that's the thing...at a bunch of key positions, the staff has NOT had another year of continuity.

McDermott and Leslie Frazier, I give you that.

Some of the coaches who are new:

ST coach - Heath Farwell

QB coach - Ken Dorsey

WR coach - Chad Hall

OL coach - Bobby Johnson
Safeties coach - Bobby Babich

I'm fairly sure I'm missing a few, but especially on offense, that's a lot of new guys.

And with new guys, perhaps came some new ideas about how to focus practices?

 

 

[Buffalo Boy]

5 hours ago, K-9 said:

DOOMED!!!

Your font size excites me?

[YoloinOhio]

 

[K-9]

1 hour ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

Rest day?? They have the next two days off.

 

 

They are off tomorrow, but practice on Tuesday. It’s not open to the public; media only.

[C.Biscuit97]

2 hours ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

Foster did not look good at all today.  Lots of drops and his body language appeared like he was getting down on himself.  Hopefully he can step it up.

This is what terrifies me about him.  Some people just anointed after last year.  Dude has a ton of ability but there’s a reason he was cut here, not claimed, and didn’t really play at Bama.  I worry that in a big spot, he will have a huge drop.  And I bet he does because drops get in your head as a receiver.  But on physical skills, he’s probably our most talented receiver.  Takes a lot more than that though.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

 

So

 

 

Oliver is a bust?

 

 

[YoloinOhio]

25 minutes ago, K-9 said:

They are off tomorrow, but practice on Tuesday. It’s not open to the public; media only.

That’s why some of the bloggers are pissed that the Bills won’t credential them. As far as I know, other teams don’t credential bloggers either. 

Edited July 29, 2019 by YoloinOhio

[K-9]

8 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

That’s why some of the bloggers are pissed that the Bills won’t credential them. As far as I know, other teams don’t credential bloggers either. 

I’m a bit ambivalent on the matter. 

[K-No]

TY NSEKHE was picked by many here to start at one of the tackle spots yet he has not seen any time with the 1s. How does the coaching staff determine opening camp starters? Will he get a chance to earn a starting spot? I would think he signed here for that opportunity. 

[YoloinOhio]

2 minutes ago, K-No said:

TY NSEKHE was picked by many here to start at one of the tackle spots yet he has not seen any time with the 1s. How does the coaching staff determine opening camp starters? Will he get a chance to earn a starting spot? I would think he signed here for that opportunity. 

I think he has, actually. He rotates with Ford, even though Ford starts out there. 

[Boatdrinks]

7 minutes ago, K-No said:

TY NSEKHE was picked by many here to start at one of the tackle spots yet he has not seen any time with the 1s. How does the coaching staff determine opening camp starters? Will he get a chance to earn a starting spot? I would think he signed here for that opportunity. 

I think the Bills believe they know what they have in Nsekhe, as he has a lot of experience. They might want to get a good look at what Ford can do, especially early on. While Nsekhe has obvious value as a backup/ swing player , I wouldn’t close the book on him emerging as one of the starting 5 OL at all. 

[John from Riverside]

I believe that foster is going to find his stride

the completion level at the position is much higher this year

[ganesh]

1 hour ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

 

So

 

 

Oliver is a bust?

 

 

 

One of the things I am curious to know: Over four days of practice, everyone online and at the camp have been non-stop talking about the offense.  Look at all of Astro's notes....so focused on offense (or offense centric).  Usually at this time of the year, the defense is well ahead of offense.  However, not a peep about the defense.  

[CommonCents]

2 minutes ago, ganesh said:

 

One of the things I am curious to know: Over four days of practice, everyone online and at the camp have been non-stop talking about the offense.  Look at all of Astro's notes....so focused on offense (or offense centric).  Usually at this time of the year, the defense is well ahead of offense.  However, not a peep about the defense.  

So many new faces on offense, it makes sense that the coaches would want to get them some confidence early on. I expect the D to give them different looks and make it more competitive in the new few practices.

[ganesh]

1 minute ago, CommonCents said:

So many new faces on offense, it makes sense that the coaches would want to get them some confidence early on. I expect the D to give them different looks and make it more competitive in the new few practices.

Agreed. I was not talking about the coaches though.  More on how the media, online and camp-dwellers are so focused on the offense.  I assume fans are equally curious to see the changes in offense, whereas the defense is returning 10 of the 11 starters from last year.  I do want to know where is the run defense on this team.  If they don;t stop the run, we will be in trouble like last year.

[Mat68]

Nyske is plan B at OT.  Dawkins and Ford are plan A. Dawkins and Ford could bookend for years.  Nyske can slide in at either spot no problem.  Imo he is a better pass blocker than both.  Dawkins and Ford have the run blocking style they want.  

[Warcodered]

 

[Chandler#81]

1 hour ago, Mat68 said:

Nyske is plan B at OT.  Dawkins and Ford are plan A. Dawkins and Ford could bookend for years.  Nyske can slide in at either spot no problem.  Imo he is a better pass blocker than both.  Dawkins and Ford have the run blocking style they want.  

 

This -and the fact he signed a multi year contract with a huge payday. He’s valuable and if he is just our swing tackle, he could play til he’s 40. We made him very ha$$y to be here.

[GunnerBill]

3 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

This is what terrifies me about him.  Some people just anointed after last year.  Dude has a ton of ability but there’s a reason he was cut here, not claimed, and didn’t really play at Bama.  I worry that in a big spot, he will have a huge drop.  And I bet he does because drops get in your head as a receiver.  But on physical skills, he’s probably our most talented receiver.  Takes a lot more than that though.

 

Like the people who insist that he is already better than Robby Anderson? 

2 hours ago, Boatdrinks said:

I think the Bills believe they know what they have in Nsekhe, as he has a lot of experience. They might want to get a good look at what Ford can do, especially early on. While Nsekhe has obvious value as a backup/ swing player , I wouldn’t close the book on him emerging as one of the starting 5 OL at all. 

 

It is the same way it has been all along. He was brought here as insurance. Insurance against them not getting a tackle in the draft and insurance against against that tackle not being ready to start week 1. If Cody looks good in practice Nsekhe is their swing backup. Which was, I believe, always their ideal outcome. 

[transplantbillsfan]

Taken from Astro's notes... notice how many times Foster's name show up... there's a reason for that:

 

Here are combinations used by Daboll on the ensuing plays with Josh. It shows the imagination and attention to detail, variety, and diagnostic work put in by the coaches.

 

->Brown, Beasley, Cam Phillips
->Foster, Zay, Beasley
->Brown, Zay, Beasley with Singletary
->Foster, Zay, Brown
->Foster, Beasley, McKenzie with Singletary 
->Foster, Gore, DiMarco, Zay
->Foster, Zay, McKenzie 

Edited July 29, 2019 by transplantbillsfan

[GunnerBill]

3 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

Taken from Astro's notes... notice how many times Foster's name show up... there's a reason for that:

 

Here are combinations used by Daboll on the ensuing plays with Josh. It shows the imagination and attention to detail, variety, and diagnostic work put in by the coaches.

 

->Brown, Beasley, Cam Phillips
->Foster, Zay, Beasley
->Brown, Zay, Beasley with Singletary
->Foster, Zay, Brown
->Foster, Beasley, McKenzie with Singletary 
->Foster, Gore, DiMarco, Zay
->Foster, Zay, McKenzie 

 

I make that Foster 5; Zay 5; Beasley 4; Brown 3 (but we know he has had significant snaps every day);

 

Then 2 for McKenzie and one for Cam Phillips. With obviously some situations with running backs split out. The top 4 are clear. Foster might be 4th of those four at the moment but they are all part of this plan and will all make the roster unless something very strange happens.

[eball]

11 hours ago, Green Lightning said:

I've been trying not to get too pumped up

 

For the love of god, why?  If there is any time to get excited and "pumped up" it's now!  We've got an up-and-coming HC, a young stud at QB, a roster finally brimming with talent, and a front office that is actually following through on a plan!

 

I read posts "worrying" about this and that -- a post earlier in this thread is by someone apparently "terrified" about how a player may let him down.  Get a grip!  If you can't have fun with this team after all we've been through as Bills fans please consult your mental health professional immediately!  BBFS has a cure!

 

 

Edited July 29, 2019 by eball