When did “Defense End” become “Edge Rusher?”

[BillyWhiteShows]

Quick question.  I notice that in some media, the position which once was referred to as “Defensive End” is now called “Edge Rusher” or sometimes “Edge.”  

 

When did this happen and why?

[CodeMonkey]

Probably ever since it became a pass-first league.

[njbuff]

Charles Haley.

 

He started this thing with someone being too big to play LB and too small to play DE, but was so damn good that he needed to be on the field.

[Heavy Kevi]

Because DE no longer describes the type of player.

 

Edge is more of a hybrid DE/OLB that is put in position mostly just to rush the passer, imo of course.

[stosh64]

7 minutes ago, BillyWhiteShows said:

Quick question.  I notice that in some media, the position which once was referred to as “Defensive End” is now called “Edge Rusher” or sometimes “Edge.”  

 

When did this happen and why?

Probably around the same time that a snow storm turned into an "Artic BOMB"  and cold weather turned into a "Polar VORTEX".

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

Specialization isn’t just for medicine or law school  anymore 

[MJS]

Because an edge rusher could be either a DE or an OLB depending on the defensive scheme. But essentially they are the same player, who who is dedicated to rush the passer off the edge.

[DC Tom]

When it became common to move players around the line to create matchup problems in blocking and not pigeon-hole them into a single position.

[Kelly the Dog]

12 minutes ago, njbuff said:

Charles Haley.

 

He started this thing with someone being too big to play LB and too small to play DE, but was so damn good that he needed to be on the field.

6'6" 255 is too small to play DE?

[WideNine]

10 minutes ago, BillyWhiteShows said:

Quick question.  I notice that in some media, the position which once was referred to as “Defensive End” is now called “Edge Rusher” or sometimes “Edge.”  

 

When did this happen and why?

 

Evolving term to take into account both traditional defensive ends and smaller players that are closer in size to linebackers like Hughes in our 4-3, or going back in history like Lawrence Taylor was to the 3-4 defense.

 

Taylor who was labeled a linebacker would be labeled an edge rusher today considering how he was used.

 

Basically it is easier to give those players who primarily rush the passer off the edge a scheme-neutral label "edge rusher"

 

Makes the position more flexible in terms of scheme and what kind of players can be used to fill it, by focusing on the defensive role.

 

Also they may not be lined up on the "end" of the d-line at all, as teams like Seattle made splitting those guys off into a "wide nine" position more popular.

 

Just my take.

 

 

[njbuff]

15 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

6'6" 255 is too small to play DE?

 

Yep, that's what the NFL thought of him at the time.

 

Nuts.

[Kelly the Dog]

3 minutes ago, njbuff said:

 

Yep, that's what the NFL thought of him at the time.

 

Nuts.

I don't recall that at all. And no one ever said that about Bruce who was 6'4" 265. 

[ocemur]

When the agents figured out they were losing money because their clients were being called "tweeners". Well he's maybe a DE or an OLB if he drops a few pounds in the right scheme... No, wait! he's an Edge Rusher! That's the ticket!

Just now, Kelly the Dog said:

I don't recall that at all. And no one ever said that about Bruce who was 6'4" 265. 

Well Bruce came into the league over 300 lbs. Then he started with the Jiffy Pop and wearing out Stair Master machines after his rookie year.

[YoloinOhio]

EDGE = DE in a 4-3/OLB in a 3-4. Its the Edge Rusher - basically anyone who lines up outside the OT and is asked to set the edge or rush the QB.

Edited April 26, 2019 by YoloinOhio

[LSHMEAB]

7 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

EDGE = DE in a 4-3/OLB in a 3-4

Right. You would never label Pittsburgh DE's as "edge" players.

 

Going back to the 90's, they had the great pass rushing duo of Green/Lloyd. Those guys were edge players at the time simply labeled OLB's. They're in the midst of switching things up from the 3-4, but I'm speaking more broadly about their defense over the past 30 years.

 

Edge is a more descriptive term. Not quite sure why some folks have a problem with it.  

Edited April 26, 2019 by LSHMEAB

[Cash]

27 minutes ago, MJS said:

Because an edge rusher could be either a DE or an OLB depending on the defensive scheme. But essentially they are the same player, who who is dedicated to rush the passer off the edge.

 

Yes - it's an admission that a given prospect's position will be different depending on what scheme they're drafted into (mostly 3-4 vs 4-3), but their *role* in the defense will mostly be the same.  Jerry Hughes, for example, came into the league as an OLB in Indy's 3-4 scheme at the time, but now plays DE in our 4-3.  Von Miller is another good example - he actually starts at OLB in a 4-3, but plays DE on passing downs.  He's listed on the roster as LB, but in terms of how their defenses use them, Miller has a lot more in common with Hughes than he does with Matt Milano.

Just now, LSHMEAB said:

Right. You would never label Pittsburgh DE's as "edge" players.

 

Going back to the 90's, they had the great pass rushing duo of Green/Lloyd. Those guys were edge players at the time simply labeled OLB's.

 

Edge is a more descriptive term. Not quite sure why some folks have a problem with it. 

 

Right, that's another good point.  Bruce was certainly an edge rusher as a 3-4 DE in the 90s, but not every 3-4 DE fits that bill.  Likewise, most (not all) 3-4 OLBs and some 4-3 OLBs fit that category as well.  Sticking with the 90s defenses, Cornelius Bennett was an "edge" at OLB, but Darryl Talley was not.

[LSHMEAB]

3 minutes ago, Cash said:

 

 

Right, that's another good point.  Bruce was certainly an edge rusher as a 3-4 DE in the 90s, but not every 3-4 DE fits that bill.  Likewise, most (not all) 3-4 OLBs and some 4-3 OLBs fit that category as well.  Sticking with the 90s defenses, Cornelius Bennett was an "edge" at OLB, but Darryl Talley was not.

The Bills 3-4 scheme was obviously a bit different and Bruce was an ELITE talent, so yeah; it's not an ironclad rule. A 3-4 end CAN be an edge. Talley vs Bennett. Exactly. I feel like the answer to the question is relatively simple. Edge players are primarily pass rushers.

[UB2SF]

3 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

Edge is a more descriptive term. Not quite sure why some folks have a problem with it.  

 

I don't have a problem with it, per se, but it just strikes me as odd.  Every other position is abbreviated with one or two uppercase letters, and now we have a whole word typically written in uppercase.  I guess it's just an an OCD/pet-peeve type of thing.  Wondering if someday they will have SLOT or WILL or SAM or MIKE.

[Heavy Kevi]

Just now, cage said:

 

How about in a 3-4 scheme where the non-NT defensive linemen are bigger.  Would we still call them Defensive Ends in that circumstance?

 

Yeah that's what I'm saying. The big guys dedicated to the line, with their hand in the dirt are still DE.

 

The EDGE distinction is for the different guys who are pass rush specialists (to play from end of the line or OLB), the term did not replace DE.

[Lurker]

When 3-4 defenses came into wider popularity...

[ndirish1978]

EDGE covers both 4-3 DEs and 3-4 OLBs who rush the passer. 

[Rocket94]

1 hour ago, BillyWhiteShows said:

Quick question.  I notice that in some media, the position which once was referred to as “Defensive End” is now called “Edge Rusher” or sometimes “Edge.”  

 

When did this happen and why?

Just another cute term. Like "generational" or my favorite: "Transcendent"

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

When he has a lot of sacks....     

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

1981 AT

 

 

 

 

 

 

After Taylor

11 minutes ago, Rocket94 said:

Just another cute term. Like "generational" or my favorite: "Transcendent"

"Off the charts"

[billsfan89]

When a lot of teams began playing a 3-4 defense, scouts, fans, media, and teams realized that a 3-4 OLB and a 4-3 DE have more in common than a 3-4 OLB and a 4-3 OLB. It's more so a simplification of the terms. 

[Chandler#81]

A long time ago. Pay attention in class.

[Kwai San]

6 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

A long time ago. Pay attention in class.

LOL......It's hard to pay attention coach!!!

[formerlyofCtown]

2 hours ago, BillyWhiteShows said:

Quick question.  I notice that in some media, the position which once was referred to as “Defensive End” is now called “Edge Rusher” or sometimes “Edge.”  

 

When did this happen and why?

Its focused more on specializing in rushing the passer probably also probably considering a fit at 3-4 OLB

[Capco]

1 hour ago, UB2SF said:

 

I don't have a problem with it, per se, but it just strikes me as odd.  Every other position is abbreviated with one or two uppercase letters, and now we have a whole word typically written in uppercase.  I guess it's just an an OCD/pet-peeve type of thing.  Wondering if someday they will have SLOT or WILL or SAM or MIKE.

 

The thing is, EDGE isn't a position.  It's a role filled by different positions depending on the scheme.  

[NoHuddleKelly12]

2 hours ago, MJS said:

Because an edge rusher could be either a DE or an OLB depending on the defensive scheme. But essentially they are the same player, who who is dedicated to rush the passer off the edge.

So then also doesn't have to set in the "down" 3 pt. stance position, right?

[1ManRaid]

2 hours ago, stosh64 said:

Probably around the same time that a snow storm turned into an "Artic BOMB"  and cold weather turned into a "Polar VORTEX".

I've never heard of an arctic bomb, and polar vortex is a real thing that is far more than just cold weather.

[ddaryl]

1st time I noticed this was this year in the draft... I understand what they're doing but this is the 1st year I saw the change in nomenclature regarding the tweener position

[freddyjj]

2 hours ago, BillyWhiteShows said:

Quick question.  I notice that in some media, the position which once was referred to as “Defensive End” is now called “Edge Rusher” or sometimes “Edge.”  

 

When did this happen and why?

Guess its part of the  millennial's political correctness movement. 

 

Position neutral terminology.  Also allows for self-identification as an OLB or DE or transitioning to/from each freely on the part of the player.

[Bing Bong]

sorta how basketball is now positionless and nobody has a Power Forward, they have Wings and Stretch 3-5s and combo guards etc. Most sports pidgeonhole a player's role to a set position for each player on the field to make things easier for the casual viewer.

 

Was Mike Tolbert a running back or a full back? Who cares he's a guy who used to block a lot on rushing plays that rushed for more yards than the other dudes who primarily just block out of the backfield. Give him a pro-bowl for being a heckuva full back!

Edited April 26, 2019 by BarkleyForGOATBackupPT5P

[Shaw66]

2 hours ago, MJS said:

Because an edge rusher could be either a DE or an OLB depending on the defensive scheme. But essentially they are the same player, who who is dedicated to rush the passer off the edge.

Right.  A 3-4 DE isn't an edge rusher; the guy who lines up outside him is.  

 

Mario Williams was an edge rusher in the 4-3, and Kyle William's was a 3 tech tackle, the natural positions for both.  When they switched to the 3-4, Mario was wasted as a DE and couldn't play OLB.  Kyle was out of position as a nose tackle. 

 

Edge rusher now means a guy who will play DE in 4-3 or OLB in the 3-4.  Some guys fit either scheme, some fit only one. 

[skibum]

My question is, why is it always written in all caps?  You don't say, "let's draft a QUARTERBACK." Maybe we should ask this guy. I bet he knows.

Edited April 26, 2019 by skibum

[Big Turk]

Because a 3-4 and 4-3 defensive end are so different...in a 3-4 the rushers are OLB's and in a 4-3 they are DE's.  

 

So basically Edge-Rusher comprises DE's in a 4-3 system and OLB's in a 3-4 system.

Edited April 26, 2019 by matter2003

[mjt328]

Because 4-3 Defensive Ends and 3-4 Outside Linebackers are basically the same guys...

At the same time, 4-3 Defensive Tackles and 3-4 Defensive Ends are basically the same guys.

 

If Josh Allen had been drafted by the Giants last night, he would have been a linebacker.  But since he got drafted by the Jaguars, he will be playing defensive end.

In the same way, Ed Oliver would have been a defensive end for the Giants.  But he will be a defensive tackle for us.

 

More people are now starting to refer to the positions as Edge Rusher and Interior Defensive Line, and I personally think it's more accurate and easier to help identify what a guy's responsibilities actually are.

 

 

[The Senator]

3 hours ago, BillyWhiteShows said:

Quick question.  I notice that in some media, the position which once was referred to as “Defensive End” is now called “Edge Rusher” or sometimes “Edge.”  

 

When did this happen and why?

 

Ya know, it’s a quick question, but a darned good one.  I think I need a refresher course myself.

 

I know the difference between a halfback and fullback, but what’s a tailback?  (Now, we just call all of ‘em RBs)

 

Is there such a thing as a split end any longer?  What’s the difference between an X receiver and a Y receiver, and a Z receiver?

 

The game, and the schemes, and the terminology, are all much more complex than they used to be.

.

Edited April 26, 2019 by The Senator

[Big Turk]

29 minutes ago, mjt328 said:

Because 4-3 Defensive Ends and 3-4 Outside Linebackers are basically the same guys...

At the same time, 4-3 Defensive Tackles and 3-4 Defensive Ends are basically the same guys.

 

If Josh Allen had been drafted by the Giants last night, he would have been a linebacker.  But since he got drafted by the Jaguars, he will be playing defensive end.

In the same way, Ed Oliver would have been a defensive end for the Giants.  But he will be a defensive tackle for us.

 

More people are now starting to refer to the positions as Edge Rusher and Interior Defensive Line, and I personally think it's more accurate and easier to help identify what a guy's responsibilities actually are.

 

 

 

Well...no they aren't.  

 

A 4-3 DE is usually in the 265-280 range in weight 

a 3-4 OLB is usually in the 235-245 range in weight

 

Additionally the 3-4 OLB needs to be able to play in space in a way the 4-3  does not need to and the 4-3 DE needs to be better at the point of attack against the run than the 3-4 OLB does.   agree that their MAIN role is the same...get the QB, but the other things they need to be able to do and their attributes are not the same at all.

 

Allen likely will occupy the same spot as Jerry Hughes does with the Bills for the Jags...he might be a little light to play DE, but they will probably let him stand up a lot coming off the edge

Edited April 26, 2019 by matter2003