New Stadium Talk as of owner’s meetings

[Kirby Jackson]

10 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

That's his leverage?  That he moves the team?

 

He had that chance.  Who wouldn't call that bluff (of those legislators who do not represent WNY)?  They would ask....."where you gonna go?"

 

Pegula's pal Stan Kroenke had a plan all along to move out of St. Louis--he was just waiting for LA.  Pegula doesn't have that option.  And Kroenke is putting up 1.6 billion cash and financing another 2.25 billion for a project that is now expected to cost at least 4.25 billion.

 

 

Again, you asked his leverage, that’s leverage. He could entertain Toronto or even London. If the state draws a line in the sand he will have the support of other owners to play that card.

 

These public/private partnerships are commonplace in sports. The Yankees and Mets are the 2 most recent examples of stadiums, in NY, that were heavily funded with tax dollars. I believe they were NYC dollars, but tax dollars nonetheless. This isn’t some rarity. This is the norm. The Pegulas have invested heavily in WNY and will put up their share on this. The taxpayers will be contributing though and if you think otherwise, you are crazy. 

[BillsfanAZ]

Cardinals stadium was built for under 500 million with a retractable roof and the whole field slides outside of the stadium on railroad tracks. It is a grass field. Construction costs in NY and AZ are different and the Bills will have to do more infastruction work but I would not be surprised if the stadium comes in around 500-600 million mark. 

[Boatdrinks]

6 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Again, you asked his leverage, that’s leverage. He could entertain Toronto or even London. If the state draws a line in the sand he will have the support of other owners to play that card.

 

These public/private partnerships are commonplace in sports. The Yankees and Mets are the 2 most recent examples of stadiums, in NY, that were heavily funded with tax dollars. I believe they were NYC dollars, but tax dollars nonetheless. This isn’t some rarity. This is the norm. The Pegulas have invested heavily in WNY and will put up their share on this. The taxpayers will be contributing though and if you think otherwise, you are crazy. 

Agreed. It seems a lot of commentary here is either folks making grand ( yet wholly unrealistic) political statements or whining about being priced out of attending games. A potential new stadium in Buffalo isn’t going to happen all that differently from what has been done elsewhere around the league. 

5 minutes ago, BillsfanAZ said:

Cardinals stadium was built for under 500 million with a retractable roof and the whole field slides outside of the stadium on railroad tracks. It is a grass field. Construction costs in NY and AZ are different and the Bills will have to do more infastruction work but I would not be surprised if the stadium comes in around 500-600 million mark. 

Wouldn’t the amount of snowfall we get in the area rule out a retractable roof ? It seems a dome would be more suitable for our region but I’m not certain. 

[BillsfanAZ]

6 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

Agreed. It seems a lot of commentary here is either folks making grand ( yet wholly unrealistic) political statements or whining about being priced out of attending games. A potential new stadium in Buffalo isn’t going to happen all that differently from what has been done elsewhere around the league. 

Wouldn’t the amount of snowfall we get in the area rule out a retractable roof ? It seems a dome would be more suitable for our region but I’m not certain. 

I am not certain how a retractable roof would hold up to snow. I just mentioned the retractable roof due to it probably being more expensive than a dome or a partial fixed roof. 

[Jrb1979]

1 minute ago, Boatdrinks said:

Agreed. It seems a lot of commentary here is either folks making grand ( yet wholly unrealistic) political statements or whining about being priced out of attending games. A potential new stadium in Buffalo isn’t going to happen all that differently from what has been done elsewhere around the league. 

I think being priced out is the biggest reason a lot of people don't want a new stadium.  For some that might happen but IMO tickets will eventually rise to be closer to the league average. 

[4_kidd_4]

Drill a well, Terry.

[TheFunPolice]

Odd that Miami's owner doesn't want Buffalo dome

 

I am firmly in the NO DOME camp.

 

No sterile airplane hangar! 

Edited March 28, 2019 by TheFunPolice

[Boatdrinks]

Just now, Jrb1979 said:

I think being priced out is the biggest reason a lot of people don't want a new stadium.  For some that might happen but IMO tickets will eventually rise to be closer to the league average. 

Ticket prices rising to around the middle of the pack would almost certainly happen, and why not ? I do think the bottom of the barrel pricing structure that Bills fans have enjoyed for so long has given many an unrealistic view of things. It won’t last forever. 

1 minute ago, TheFunPolice said:

Odd that Miami's owner doesn't want Buffalo dome

 

I am firmly in the NO DOME camp.

 

No sterile airplane hangar! 

I probably wouldn’t want a dome in Miami either, fwiw. November and December ( and even January at some point ) in Buffalo, though ? Dome please. 

[TheFunPolice]

NE Pittsburgh Chicago Cleveland Green Bay Philly NY Baltimore KC Washington are all cold

 

No worse here. Domes are dumb. The SB is not coming here

3 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

Ticket prices rising to around the middle of the pack would almost certainly happen, and why not ? I do think the bottom of the barrel pricing structure that Bills fans have enjoyed for so long has given many an unrealistic view of things. It won’t last forever. 

I probably wouldn’t want a dome in Miami either, fwiw. November and December ( and even January at some point ) in Buffalo, though ? Dome please. 

The way I read it Miami is against the Bills building a dome

[Boatdrinks]

1 minute ago, TheFunPolice said:

NE Pittsburgh Chicago Cleveland Green Bay Philly NY Baltimore KC Washington are all cold

 

No worse here. Domes are dumb. The SB is not coming here

The way I read it Miami is against the Bills building a dome

Winters are much worse here than the places you cited ( okay maybe GB is equal/ worse) and snowfall total is probably not even close. Not sure why Miami would care about a potential Bills dome but OK. 

[Mr. WEO]

47 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Again, you asked his leverage, that’s leverage. He could entertain Toronto or even London. If the state draws a line in the sand he will have the support of other owners to play that card.

 

These public/private partnerships are commonplace in sports. The Yankees and Mets are the 2 most recent examples of stadiums, in NY, that were heavily funded with tax dollars. I believe they were NYC dollars, but tax dollars nonetheless. This isn’t some rarity. This is the norm. The Pegulas have invested heavily in WNY and will put up their share on this. The taxpayers will be contributing though and if you think otherwise, you are crazy. 

 

I understand how it is done elsewhere.  But can anyone, after every city in the country was clamoring to be the sight for Amazon HQ2 ever imagine that NYC, after landing such a massive windfall....would quickly chase them out?  Those are the current forces in play in this state.  The Yankees and Mets deals were, figuratively, a million years ago--and both were built with city issued tax free bonds, not NYS tax funds.

 

There may be some "infrastructure" money tossed in.  But I would be surprised if they get "half" from the state. 

 

Toronto is an easy bluff to call, by the way.  London----I bet Pegula could not even put that out there with a straight face.

Edited March 28, 2019 by Mr. WEO

[May Day 10]

2 hours ago, LabattBlue said:

The sight lines in the 100 level of the arena drive me crazy.  I'd love to know from the design team, WTF they were thinking...especially coming from the Aud, where even the lower bowl was steep enough that you never had a problem seeing over the person in front of you.

In the 100 level, there are many seats where you need to watch half the game on the jumbotron.

 

The 300 level corners are also awful.  You feel like you are in a different area code.  

 

And the bubble roof and giant blue wall suck any ambiance and sound out of the place.

 

Also, cheap building materials like seats.  Probably was necessary for it to get built though.

 

 

Most of the other arenas built at that time are much better.  Washington may be the closest in kind of crappy.  

Things like padded seats in the 300 level, steep grading (bell centre violated the code i think, and the acc needs railings in front of the 300 level seats). 

[TheFunPolice]

41 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

Winters are much worse here than the places you cited ( okay maybe GB is equal/ worse) and snowfall total is probably not even close. Not sure why Miami would care about a potential Bills dome but OK. 

I thought it was odd but Pegulas said Stephen Ross was against a dome in Buffalo and made a point of telling him

 

 

[purple haze]

3 hours ago, LabattBlue said:

Just my 2 cents.  I think a retractable roof is a waste of money and not being considered, but a moderately priced domed stadium which is more in line with Minnesota and Indy, and not Jerry's World or Mercedes Dome, is probably going to end up being the answer. 

Indianapolis has a retractable roof.  It's not fixed.  

[Doc]

Why would Ross (or any owner for that matter) be against it? 

[TheFunPolice]

8 minutes ago, Doc said:

Why would Ross (or any owner for that matter) be against it? 

 

No idea... Seems like a disadvantage to his team

 

Terry Pegula is the one who said it in the transcript

Edited March 28, 2019 by TheFunPolice

[Doc]

4 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said:

No idea... Seems like a disadvantage to his team

 

Terry Pegula is the one who said it in the transcript

 

I can only imagine that Ross is looking at it like the fans, i.e. playing in the elements.

[oldmanfan]

when my sister  in law and nieces came to town this past season for the Colts game, we had no problem finding an excellent tailgate with other Bills fans even though it was downtown.  Using the lack of tailgating opportunity to have the new one built in the city isn't enough; Bills fans will adapt and overcome.

 

Like every stadium it will come down to ownership money, league money, and government money.  As predictable as death and taxes.  I don't agree, I think owners and the league should pay and keep the revenue, but that is just not how these deals get done.  As for ticket prices, when I come back to the area all I can tell you is that there seems to be disposable income in WNY.  The Sabres draw, I drive down the boulevard and every restaurant parking lot is full, people are downtown having fun, going to Sheas, etc., etc., etc.  SO while I don't think the area can withstand a huge ticket price, huge PSLs, it seems to me the town can withstand a moderate increase in ticket pricing.  Fans will just have to decide priorities when deciding what to use their entertainment dollars on, and given it's the Bills I would think that will be the priority for many. 

[Hammered a Lot]

4 hours ago, Just Jack said:

 

Wouldn't you be a bit biased also if you saw a good steady source of income disappearing in a few years? 

 

4 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Yep, Hammer has the most at stake for sure. He should feel like he does. We all would feel the EXACT same way.

My stakes are good. Planned  ahead awhile ago. When they retro NEF or build DT it does not matter to me. But as a TAXPAYING  Western New Yorker I have opinions and for those who know me I'm not afraid to express them face to face or on TBD. I respect others opionion (even if their nonsense is wrong!) and I expect the same back. 

[WhoTom]

2 hours ago, Boatdrinks said:

Wouldn’t the amount of snowfall we get in the area rule out a retractable roof ? It seems a dome would be more suitable for our region but I’m not certain. 

 

The retractable dome in Toronto stays closed all winter because the open/close mechanism doesn't work in the cold. Assuming the technology is still roughly the same, a retractable dome in Buffalo would also remain closed for the winter.

 

[SoCal Deek]

I’ve attended games in virtually every new stadium. There’s ZERO reason to spend the extra money on a retractable roof. It’ll just end up being closed almost all the time anyway and if you put enough glass in the building like in Dallas and Minneapolis it’s like you’re sitting outside anyway. Don’t waste the money!

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, purple haze said:

Indianapolis has a retractable roof.  It's not fixed.  

 

As of last September, it has been opened for only 25 games over 10 years.

 

Retractable roof=huge waste of money.  Pegula knows this.  Same reason he's not going to build a domed stadium.

Edited March 28, 2019 by Mr. WEO

[purple haze]

8 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

As of last September, it has been opened for only 25 games over 10 years.

 

Retractable roof=huge waste of money.  Pegula knows this.  Same reason he's not going to build a domed stadium.

I have no desire to watch a game indoors. And as you stated, teams rarely have a retractable roof open.  I think the Colts mostly have the roof open for preseason games at that.

[mjd1001]

Personally, I'd prefer a downtown stadium, and a dome.  I stopped going to games years ago though.  If they build something downtown, and with a dome, I'll likely go to a game or two per year again, even if the tickets double in price.  I just worry about the traffic downtown though...I don't see a way they an easily get 50,000+ people in and out of downtown after a game without it being total chaos.

 

That being said, there really is nothing they can do or build to even get me to buy season tickets again (just too convenient to watch the game at home with family and friends), so if they keep it in the southtowns, not too big of a deal for me.

[Punching Bag]

4 hours ago, BillsfanAZ said:

I am not certain how a retractable roof would hold up to snow. I just mentioned the retractable roof due to it probably being more expensive than a dome or a partial fixed roof. 

 

Personally, if it is going to be a dome, I'd prefer Minnesota model - you can the sun, moderated when needed, without the hassles and cost of retractable.

 

Info on how Minnesota did it - it is not retractable due to cost - state and city refused to pay for extra cost of retractable but it is possible but very expensive.

 

Because of Minnesota’s harsh winters, a retractable roof was considered for the team’s new home as an appealing alternative to the cavelike Metrodome, where the controlled indoor climate and diffused light made it feel claustrophobic even on sunny days.

 

http://www.startribune.com/high-tech-roof-in-place-for-winter-at-new-vikings-stadium/360644121/

 

More than just bringing the light in, ETFE also ensures the snow will stay out. The lightweight but strong material allowed designers to run a superspan that includes a single 989-foot-long single ridge truss the entire length of the field. It's set asymmetrically to allow for the sunnier south side of the building to use more ETFE than the north side. The roof that sits over the 1.75 million square foot stadium is one of the lightest stadium roofs in the world, despite its snow load requirements. The roof is so minimal that the Vikings can still do a flyover before the game. In an indoor venue.

 

https://www.popularmechanics.com/adventure/sports/a19066/minnesota-viking-football-stadium-roof/

 

The one an architect friend designed and proposed a number of years ago was like roof of vikings stadium:

 

The steep pitch of the roof (1:12) fits the Northern European design motif and serves a practical purpose of helping snow slide into a snow gutter that rings the top of the building. This gutter has a melting system within to take the cascading snow and turn it into full liquid before the weight becomes a Metrodome-type issue.

[beerme1]

4 hours ago, Doc said:

 

I can only imagine that Ross is looking at it like the fans, i.e. playing in the elements.

 

 

One of the absolute best snow games was against Miami some 16, 17 or 18 years ago. 

[steven50]

On 3/27/2019 at 1:14 PM, Jrb1979 said:

 It seems that a lot of the posters here are older fans and don't like change.   

Hold on there sparky, I am "older". When I was a kid they played at the rock pile. I have no special attachment to the Orchard Park stadium.

 

Downtown and covered (Roof, dome I dont care).

 

For everyone that says they would go to less indoor games because that isn't real football  I can point to 5 other people who dont go now because of the weather.

 

I used to love being at the games in the 20 degree temperatures...... After passing the big five zero not so much.

 

[nucci]

12 hours ago, beerme1 said:

 

 

One of the absolute best snow games was against Miami some 16, 17 or 18 years ago. 

I would say it was about 29 years ago

 

 

Edited March 29, 2019 by nucci

[Boatdrinks]

6 hours ago, nucci said:

I would say it was about 29 years ago

 

 

Pretty sure he was referring to the Bledsoe era Bills vs Miami game featuring Moulds, Price, Ricky Williams et al. Was a heavier snowfall than the Jan 91 playoff game as well. 

[nucci]

6 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

Pretty sure he was referring to the Bledsoe era Bills vs Miami game featuring Moulds, Price, Ricky Williams et al. Was a heavier snowfall than the Jan 91 playoff game as well. 

I know but this was the better game

[Boatdrinks]

1 minute ago, nucci said:

I know but this was the better game

For sure 

[XABI64]

Don't care for the tailgating going away or moving downtown, I just hope we don't build a tiny 60k seat stadium. hope they aim for at least close 70k. 

 

they need to design the stadium in the same way the new soccer stadiums in europe are designed. Arched roofs that cover the seats and amplify noise back onto the ground. 

[beerme1]

21 hours ago, Boatdrinks said:

Pretty sure he was referring to the Bledsoe era Bills vs Miami game featuring Moulds, Price, Ricky Williams et al. Was a heavier snowfall than the Jan 91 playoff game as well. 

 

21 hours ago, nucci said:

I know but this was the better game

 

 

You're both correct. Now collect your participation trophy! The Bledsoe game was a surreal scene. 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

On 3/28/2019 at 7:05 PM, beerme1 said:

 

 

One of the absolute best snow games was against Miami some 16, 17 or 18 years ago. 

 

....good call...remember it well....Ricky on the loose........

Palm Beach Post sports columnist Dave George

Light snow and sleet and eventually a full-on barrage of near whiteout conditions didn’t stop Ricky Williams from rushing for a career-best 228 yards at Buffalo on Dec. 1, 2002. That remains a Miami franchise record, and it came on a day when the temperature was 25 degrees at kickoff with a wind chill of 13.

 

Drew Bledsoe, the Bills’ quarterback at the time, clearly agreed. While Lucas was laboring on a 6-for-11 passing day with two fumbles, Bledsoe threw for 306 yards and three touchdowns. Included in there was a 73-yard touchdown pass from Bledsoe to Peerless Price, the play that put Buffalo ahead to stay in a 38-21 victory.

[YoloinOhio]

Twitter bomb.... it was RTd by Road Sodas so

 

 

 

[Coach Tuesday]

4 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Twitter bomb.... it was RTd by Road Sodas so

 

 

 

 

Whoa.

 

A dome??

Edited June 21, 2019 by Coach Tuesday

[YoloinOhio]

1 minute ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

Whoa.

 

A dome??

I have to think that (if this is true)  it is retractable. I know Lucas Oil’s is. Is Jerry World retractable? 

Edited June 21, 2019 by YoloinOhio

[plenzmd1]

4 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

I have to think that (if this is true)  it is retractable. I know Lucas Oil’s is. Is Jerry World retractable? 

Dallas is, but hardly ever opened..

 

who is road sodas? I cant see in the retweet list

[YoloinOhio]

Just now, plenzmd1 said:

Dallas is, but hardly ever opened..

 

who is road sodas? I cant see in the retweet list

Kevin Massare. He has (or had) a Bills podcast and had some inside sources with the old regime. Road Sodas thing is a really old joke about something he posted and the nickname stuck 

[Gugny]

Here's to a few more years of affordable tickets.  Then ... nah.