KR/WR Andre Roberts (Jets) to Bills

[CountryCletus]

14 hours ago, Rico said:

Ray Ray first.

I think Ray Ray will get practice squad stashed.... 

[HappyDays]

I think in the later rounds of the draft they will be looking for players that excel at special teams. They've been overhauling that whole group this offseason.

[Doc]

1 hour ago, dneveu said:

Good addition - our returners were not good a year ago.  We were forced to use Hyde as a Punt catcher at times last year.  We were middle of the road to straight up bad last year at kickoff and punt returns. Returner helps special teams for sure - hopefully Hauschka can get back to form.  

 

Punter should still be looked at - Schmidt and Darr were awful, and Bojorquez was pretty inconsistent.

 

I'm betting Cory Carter wins the job.

[MrEpsYtown]

2 hours ago, Doc said:

Didn't read through the whole thread, but can he also play gunner?

 

I don't think he does. He had something like 12 career tackles, so perhaps he did it earlier in his career. 

[buffaloboyinATL]

20 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

I'm betting Cory Carter wins the job.

Do we still own his rights? Will his knee be healed for camp this season?

[Doc]

7 minutes ago, buffaloboyinATL said:

Do we still own his rights? Will his knee be healed for camp this season?

 

Yes and I believe he’s healed. 

[DCOrange]

45 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

I think in the later rounds of the draft they will be looking for players that excel at special teams. They've been overhauling that whole group this offseason.

From this perspective, my bias aside, I think Syracuse's Jamal Custis would make some sense. He's not quite the physical freak that DK Metcalf is, but he played the same role in Syracuse's offense as Metcalf did while also providing tantalizing physical traits (see his spider web relative to Metcalf below). He was also a very good special teamer, playing as the gunner for Syracuse. Custis was a late bloomer and his hands were pretty inconsistent, which have both played a factor in his relatively low draft stock, but with his physical traits and his abilities as a vertical threat, there's some potential there for him to develop into a good WR while playing a special teams role in the meantime. Might be a solid Day 3 investment if Buffalo is interested in the idea of a player like Metcalf but doesn't want him at #9.

 

Edited March 14, 2019 by DCOrange

[DCOrange]

I don't know what the contract is, but I'm pretty disappointed with this one. I think having an open roster spot is more valuable than signing a kick returner personally. Roberts had a year that he almost certainly will not be able to replicate for us, and even then, had a minuscule impact for the Jets. He isn't much more valuable than just having someone take a touchback on every kickoff. I'll be pretty upset if his presence results in Buffalo not drafting one or two WRs in this year's draft, and it appears that's where this is headed.

[RocCityRoller]

1 hour ago, DCOrange said:

I don't know what the contract is, but I'm pretty disappointed with this one. I think having an open roster spot is more valuable than signing a kick returner personally. Roberts had a year that he almost certainly will not be able to replicate for us, and even then, had a minuscule impact for the Jets. He isn't much more valuable than just having someone take a touchback on every kickoff. I'll be pretty upset if his presence results in Buffalo not drafting one or two WRs in this year's draft, and it appears that's where this is headed.

 

I disagree with you. It is a 3 phase game, and Buffalo just got one of the best in one of the phases. Shorten the field for the QB when possible. Flip the field on possession when possible to help the Defense.

 

If more WR come through the draft then all the better, more COMPETITION and a better team.

 

Good move IMO

 

PS pleased SU won last night without T Battle, good win.

[DCOrange]

2 minutes ago, RocCityRoller said:

 

I disagree with you. It is a 3 phase game, and Buffalo just got one of the best in one of the phases. Shorten the field for the QB when possible. Flip the field on possession when possible to help the Defense.

 

If more WR come through the draft then all the better, more COMPETITION and a better team.

 

Good move IMO

 

PS pleased SU won last night without T Battle, good win.

 

Typing from my phone so not gonna be able to provide the links and everything, but per Football Outsiders, Roberts incredible season added 22 points above the average with his kick and punt returns. Buffalo was at -9 points so if Roberts plays at his peak level again (which I think is highly unlikely), you’re talking about roughly a 30 point increase or a little less than 2 points per game. It’s just not a big difference maker.

 

I’d rather use that roster spot to carry, for example, a rookie WR in this very deep class, and have someone go out and just take a touchback on every kick. 

 

Go Syracuse!

[SCBills]

3 hours ago, DCOrange said:

I don't know what the contract is, but I'm pretty disappointed with this one. I think having an open roster spot is more valuable than signing a kick returner personally. Roberts had a year that he almost certainly will not be able to replicate for us, and even then, had a minuscule impact for the Jets. He isn't much more valuable than just having someone take a touchback on every kickoff. I'll be pretty upset if his presence results in Buffalo not drafting one or two WRs in this year's draft, and it appears that's where this is headed.

 

I’m 50/50 on this because the dude is not going to play WR for us so we’re really just using a roster spot on a PR/KR. 

 

That being said...  We play in a windy stadium so he may get more KR chances than a Dome/Southern team.   Also, if our defense is truly elite, that means a lot of 3 & outs and PR’s matter when the opponent is punting from inside their 35. 

[Coach Tuesday]

This to me is less about the player and more about the Bills finally focusing on Teams.  I hope this is the first of a major investment and overhaul on a criminally underrated aspect of wins and losses - and one that can be improved without a significant $$ investment relative to the other areas of the team.

[DCOrange]

7 minutes ago, SCBills said:

 

I’m 50/50 on this because the dude is not going to play WR for us so we’re really just using a roster spot on a PR/KR. 

 

That being said...  We play in a windy stadium so he may get more KR chances than a Dome/Southern team.   Also, if our defense is truly elite, that means a lot of 3 & outs and PR’s matter when the opponent is punting from inside their 35. 

 

Kick returns might literally be legislated out of the game within the next year or two and even without that happening, the % of touchbacks and kick returns that only get to the 25 anyways makes kick returners mostly negligible.

 

As for punt returns, both the Jets and Bills had roughly 20-25 punt returns last year. I just don't think it's worth a roster spot or money for someone that will rarely ever do anything and the idea of it costing us a shot at a legitimate starting WR in the draft just makes me sad.

[eball]

1 hour ago, DCOrange said:

 

Kick returns might literally be legislated out of the game within the next year or two and even without that happening, the % of touchbacks and kick returns that only get to the 25 anyways makes kick returners mostly negligible.

 

As for punt returns, both the Jets and Bills had roughly 20-25 punt returns last year. I just don't think it's worth a roster spot or money for someone that will rarely ever do anything and the idea of it costing us a shot at a legitimate starting WR in the draft just makes me sad.

 

It only seems to be your idea.  I'm certain the Bills don't view it that way.

[DCOrange]

4 minutes ago, eball said:

 

It only seems to be your idea.  I'm certain the Bills don't view it that way.

 

Just being realistic, the Bills will almost certainly keep 5 or 6 WRs on the roster with Roberts included. 3 of those spots are now spoken for via our free agent signings. I personally think Foster's spot should be relatively safe while Zay's should not be safe, but it seems that people expect both of them to be on the roster. That gets us to 5 without including Duke, McKenzie, or any rookies.

 

My main point isn't even about specifically a WR, it's about spending a roster spot on a guy that just doesn't make much of an impact. No kick returner in today's NFL really makes a significant impact, Roberts included. The vast majority of kicks and punts are not returned at all. Even with Roberts in New York, 68% of the Jets punts were touchbacks or fair catches. We're talking about roughly 1 or 2 punt returns per game for Roberts. Because of how few opportunities a punt returner gets over the course of a season, the difference between the #1 punt returner (Roberts last year) and a league average punt returner is basically one single return that happens to be a big play. Roberts himself has jumped back and forth from elite to below average over the past 5 years.

 

I just don't think it makes logical sense to spend a roster spot essentially on one big play in a season that he may or may not even make.

[YoloinOhio]

 

 

[Logic]

1 hour ago, DCOrange said:

 

Just being realistic, the Bills will almost certainly keep 5 or 6 WRs on the roster with Roberts included. 3 of those spots are now spoken for via our free agent signings. I personally think Foster's spot should be relatively safe while Zay's should not be safe, but it seems that people expect both of them to be on the roster. That gets us to 5 without including Duke, McKenzie, or any rookies.

 

My main point isn't even about specifically a WR, it's about spending a roster spot on a guy that just doesn't make much of an impact. No kick returner in today's NFL really makes a significant impact, Roberts included. The vast majority of kicks and punts are not returned at all. Even with Roberts in New York, 68% of the Jets punts were touchbacks or fair catches. We're talking about roughly 1 or 2 punt returns per game for Roberts. Because of how few opportunities a punt returner gets over the course of a season, the difference between the #1 punt returner (Roberts last year) and a league average punt returner is basically one single return that happens to be a big play. Roberts himself has jumped back and forth from elite to below average over the past 5 years.

 

I just don't think it makes logical sense to spend a roster spot essentially on one big play in a season that he may or may not even make.

Two things:

1.) Andre Roberts directly won the Jets the game against the Bills in Orchard Park last year. For what this dude is likely getting paid, the possibility at his adding one or two wins a year make his addition worthwhile.

2.) Teams always keep a kick returner on the roster. Bills ended last season with Victor Bolden on the roster as a kick returner. If it wasn't Roberts, it would have been McCloud or some drafted return specialist. They're not going to NOT have a roster spot taken by a WR for special teams only. One of the six spots is always going to go to a special teams ace and/or returner. Might as well have that spot be taken by an All-Pro rather than somebody like McCloud, who truly offers very little.

[JoPar_v2]

1 hour ago, DCOrange said:

 

Just being realistic, the Bills will almost certainly keep 5 or 6 WRs on the roster with Roberts included. 3 of those spots are now spoken for via our free agent signings. I personally think Foster's spot should be relatively safe while Zay's should not be safe, but it seems that people expect both of them to be on the roster. That gets us to 5 without including Duke, McKenzie, or any rookies.

 

My main point isn't even about specifically a WR, it's about spending a roster spot on a guy that just doesn't make much of an impact. No kick returner in today's NFL really makes a significant impact, Roberts included. The vast majority of kicks and punts are not returned at all. Even with Roberts in New York, 68% of the Jets punts were touchbacks or fair catches. We're talking about roughly 1 or 2 punt returns per game for Roberts. Because of how few opportunities a punt returner gets over the course of a season, the difference between the #1 punt returner (Roberts last year) and a league average punt returner is basically one single return that happens to be a big play. Roberts himself has jumped back and forth from elite to below average over the past 5 years.

 

I just don't think it makes logical sense to spend a roster spot essentially on one big play in a season that he may or may not even make.

 

You're taking a very strict cost/benefit analysis look here and I respect that and agree with your points about the phase-out of the kickoff. That said I still agree on scooping up the all-pro specialist, maybe just because I still have nightmares about the Bills' special teams play last season.

[YoloinOhio]

 

[WMDman]

16 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

Absolute steal

[JM57]

50 minutes ago, Logic said:

Two things:

1.) Andre Roberts directly won the Jets the game against the Bills in Orchard Park last year. For what this dude is likely getting paid, the possibility at his adding one or two wins a year make his addition worthwhile.

2.) Teams always keep a kick returner on the roster. Bills ended last season with Victor Bolden on the roster as a kick returner. If it wasn't Roberts, it would have been McCloud or some drafted return specialist. They're not going to NOT have a roster spot taken by a WR for special teams only. One of the six spots is always going to go to a special teams ace and/or returner. Might as well have that spot be taken by an All-Pro rather than somebody like McCloud, who truly offers very little.

3) he hasn't done it in a few years but Roberts actually was a productive WR at one point in his career unlike say, Brandon Tate, for example. Injuries happen and he is more than capable of stepping in.

[YoloinOhio]

 

[billsherd]

Season Opener will be against the jets. Bills elect to receive . First play of the season ...Kickoff Return for Touchdown!

[3rdand12]

6 hours ago, SCBills said:

 

I’m 50/50 on this because the dude is not going to play WR for us so we’re really just using a roster spot on a PR/KR. 

 

That being said...  We play in a windy stadium so he may get more KR chances than a Dome/Southern team.   Also, if our defense is truly elite, that means a lot of 3 & outs and PR’s matter when the opponent is punting from inside their 35. 

But he plays well at Both PR and KR that is almost a roster spot saved, and less reps for a starter Off or Def.

 I like the pickup a lot.

 we will have enough Recs

[RocCityRoller]

7 hours ago, JM57 said:

3) he hasn't done it in a few years but Roberts actually was a productive WR at one point in his career unlike say, Brandon Tate, for example. Injuries happen and he is more than capable of stepping in.

 

4) How many times have botched and fumbled KR/PR cost teams games? I'd pay him this just to not mess up, which our returners could not do. I'd rather have Roberts take a potential shot than Hyde.

 

 

Edited March 15, 2019 by RocCityRoller

[daz28]

Opportunity cost.  The more time they spend worrying about him, the less they have to worry about what else we're doing.  I'm not going to dream he's gonna be a great 5th WR, but this changes strategy a bit.  Do they draft guys who are better at ST now?  Does it telegraph no way to Metcalf?  It scream we draft a WR later, to go with RB, and QB.  We always draft a LB and CB later.  I think I just nailed our last 5 picks. Now if only I knew the first 5.  I think 2 picks are spent on maneuvering at least(up or down).

Edited March 15, 2019 by daz28

[Ol Dirty B]

29 minutes ago, daz28 said:

Opportunity cost.  The more time they spend worrying about him, the less they have to worry about what else we're doing.  I'm not going to dream he's gonna be a great 5th WR, but this changes strategy a bit.  Do they draft guys who are better at ST now?  Does it telegraph no way to Metcalf?  It scream we draft a WR later, to go with RB, and QB.  We always draft a LB and CB later.  I think I just nailed our last 5 picks. Now if only I knew the first 5.  I think 2 picks are spent on maneuvering at least(up or down).

 A KR/PR is about the least important role ever on the team if you understand opportunity cost. You're better off getting players on both sides of the ball who are actually good than paying a player over the mininum and designating a roster spot for this.

 

Worst comes to worse you sign an a MLB outfielder prospect or a defensive midfielder or a defender in soccer and tell them to just fair catch it everytime if it's touching the ground outside the 15

Edited March 15, 2019 by Ol Dirty B

[JM57]

5 hours ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 A KR/PR is about the least important role ever on the team if you understand opportunity cost. You're better off getting players on both sides of the ball who are actually good than paying a player over the mininum and designating a roster spot for this.

And this is where I think Roberts is a good signing. I cannot say why he hasn't been used much as a WR in the past couple of years, but he's absolutely capable of producing at the position. I used Brandon Tate as an example in my other post since we are familiar with him here and he's also a somewhat accomplished return man...

 

Tate has(had?) 71 career receptions at WR. Roberts had 64 in 2012 with the Cardinals. From 2011 to 2014 he had 4 decent seasons for a complimentary receiving option and then his last few teams haven't used him much there. I'd much rather have a guy like this as the 5th or 6th WR than someone like Tate or Bolden or whoever that offered next to nothing as an offensive player.

 

[Dat]

 

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D1gkTVMX4AAB7_1.jpg

 

 

Edited March 15, 2019 by Dat

[Nanker]

Okay. I'm going to go WAAAAAAY out on a limb here and predict that we won't be seeing anymore of this happening...

 

KR isn't important... got it. 

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

During the drought we had so many amazing Returners. Now it seems like a bit since we have had a good one. This guy is the best in the business. Love this move and hopefully we can block it up and have a few returns without penalties.

[OldNMBillsFan]

I like this addition. He averaged 14.09 yards on punt returns compared to the Bills team average of 6.68. That's 7.4 yards of extra field position per return. 

[daz28]

3 hours ago, JM57 said:

And this is where I think Roberts is a good signing. I cannot say why he hasn't been used much as a WR in the past couple of years, but he's absolutely capable of producing at the position. I used Brandon Tate as an example in my other post since we are familiar with him here and he's also a somewhat accomplished return man...

 

Tate has(had?) 71 career receptions at WR. Roberts had 64 in 2012 with the Cardinals. From 2011 to 2014 he had 4 decent seasons for a complimentary receiving option and then his last few teams haven't used him much there. I'd much rather have a guy like this as the 5th or 6th WR than someone like Tate or Bolden or whoever that offered next to nothing as an offensive player.

 

^^^

 

Try to imagine a situation where at the end of every punt return the refs throw a flag, and give us an extra 7.4 yards. 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

This guy had multiple huge returns against us in our loss to the Jets last year didn't he? Heck, even if he doesn't do much for us, that could mean one more W in the win column just by the fact that we don't have to face him twice.

On 3/13/2019 at 4:33 PM, Rico said:

Ray Ray first.

Ray Ray showed so much promise last pre-season with Allen. I want to see what he can do again this year. 

[Reed83HOF]

 

[LABILLBACKER]

8 hours ago, OldNMBillsFan said:

I like this addition. He averaged 14.09 yards on punt returns compared to the Bills team average of 6.68. That's 7.4 yards of extra field position per return. 

The fact that Crossman is gone will account for an extra 7 yards on returns. I just remember Roberts destroyed us last year, especially in that 2nd game.

[Nick the Greek]

Special teams are SOO underrated.

 

they can win (or lose) you games. That’s why Crossman was so frustrating last season. 

 

Call me crazy but but I think this may be the best signing of all the guys we got. He’s a game changer. 

[Punching Bag]

Mike Rodak‏Verified account @mikerodak

Andre Roberts’ two-year deal with Buffalo:

$1M signing bonus 2019: $2M base salary (fully guaranteed), $100,00 workout bonus, $250,000 receptions incentive

2020: $1.3M salary, $100,000 roster bonus due fifth day of LY, $100,000 workout bonus, $250,000 receptions incentive.

 

I like the receptions incentive.  I think he is a lot better catcher than has been shown during his journeyman part of career.

Make sure his eyes are checked.

[EmotionallyUnstable]

1 hour ago, Idandria said:

Special teams are SOO underrated.

 

they can win (or lose) you games. That’s why Crossman was so frustrating last season. 

 

Call me crazy but but I think this may be the best signing of all the guys we got. He’s a game changer. 

 

Okay, you're crazy.

 

This was so much more true 10, even 5, years  ago. There are many ways around special teams risks in the modern NFL. Any coach preaching a three phase game is equally important doesn't actually think that. 

 

To think he'll have more impact on this team than the other 7 FA offensive players (4 starters, ateast) is down right certifiable. I should know. I am emotionally unstable.

 

 

[Nick the Greek]

1 hour ago, EmotionallyUnstable said:

 

Okay, you're crazy.

 

This was so much more true 10, even 5, years  ago. There are many ways around special teams risks in the modern NFL. Any coach preaching a three phase game is equally important doesn't actually think that. 

 

To think he'll have more impact on this team than the other 7 FA offensive players (4 starters, ateast) is down right certifiable. I should know. I am emotionally unstable.

 

 

In a close game decided by 7 points or less, a huge kick returner or a allowing a hugh return can be all the difference in the world.

 

Starting from inside your own 10 or starting at the 50 can be the difference for an offense scoring. Roberts gets some big returns in a close game can easily translate into points.