ESPN article says Bills would "obviously trade Allen, Edmunds and White for Mahomes

[ProcessAccepted]

1 hour ago, RPbillsfan said:

The article is ridiculous.  If Patrick Mahomes would have been drafted by the Bills, sat the bench all season in 2017.  Then start with the talent level (lack of) the Bills have on offense he would have been classified as a bust, let's see:

 

TE: Clay vs Kelcie - hmmmmmmm, significant downgrade

 

WR1: Benjamin vs Hill, hmmmmmmmmm, significant downgrade

 

WR2: Zay Jones vs Sammy Watkins, slight downgrade

 

OL: Bills crap at 4 positions vs solid KC line, major downgrade

 

My guess at his stats with Buffalo would be about 30 TD's less passing, more interceptions then Allen threw and about 500 yards less rushing.

 

Plus a much worse defense now and in the future.

 

Hence, the article is complete nonsense.

Hate to say it but I'd take Zay over Sammy. Zay suits up and plays. Sammy is talented as all get out but needs do drink more milk or something. The dude is brittle.

[PIZ]

.........and if the Bills drafted Mahomes and KC got Josh Allen in the 2018 draft, the article would go something like this:

 

 "KC wanted to trade # 22 and some picks for the rights to draft Mahomes, but they got lucky because they took Josh Allen in 2018 and he looks like a stud.  Allen is putting up MVP level stats as a Rookie, with all of these awesome WRs, O-Line, RBs, and scheme while Mahomes looks terrible while throwing to his #1 receiver Zay Jones and getting hammered each play because his crappy o-line is just crappy, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th string level players....those dumb Bills should have taken KC's offer and built their team from the ground up....they were stupid dreaming that Mahomes could be good with this crappy personnel".

 

 

 

[C.Biscuit97]

The Chiefs would laugh at us if we offered them Allen and White for Mahomes.  This will be had trade to win because Mahomes might be an all Time great.  White is awesome but he’s a corner.  Allen would need to become a top 10 type qb.

 

but yeah, we mostly likely lost the deal. Reid took advantage of his former assistant.

20 minutes ago, whatdrought said:

Really depends on how Allen turns out. 

 

Right now that’s probably worth the trade, but if Allen is next years Mahomes, it’ll be a whole new story. 

Do you honestly think Allen will be the next Mahomes?  But yeah, if Allen throws for 50 tds, we won the trade.

[CommonCents]

1 minute ago, PIZ said:

.........and if the Bills drafted Mahomes and KC got Josh Allen in the 2018 draft, the article would go something like this:

 

 "KC wanted to trade # 22 and some picks for the rights to draft Mahomes, but they got lucky because they took Josh Allen in 2018 and he looks like a stud.  Allen is putting up MVP level stats as a Rookie, with all of these awesome WRs, O-Line, RBs, and scheme while Mahomes looks terrible while throwing to his #1 receiver Zay Jones and getting hammered each play because his crappy o-line is just crappy, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th string level players....those dumb Bills should have taken KC's offer and built their team from the ground up....they were stupid dreaming that Mahomes could be good with this crappy personnel".

 

 

 

I love Josh and everything but this is a little bit bananas. 

[HailMary]

2 hours ago, MJS said:

There is a 0% chance that Mahomes would have had the same success in Buffalo that he did in KC. The Chiefs have loads of offensive talent, a great offensive head coach, etc.

 

Not saying Mahomes isn't awesome. He clearly is, but he would not have been able to do in Buffalo what he did in KC.

 

Bang on with the above points

[Luka]

Whaley drafted EJ Manuel. Yes, Mahommes is good but no one was going to take Whaley's word for it even if that's who he wanted at 10. And also, trading arguably a top 5 corner, top 5 MLB and potential top 5 QB doesn't sound like a good deal. It's a team sport. The Bills just don't have the coaching and weapons that KC does, period. So Mahommes' success would not be a sure thing in Buffalo anyways.

[C.Biscuit97]

1 minute ago, Luka said:

Whaley drafted EJ Manuel. Yes, Mahommes is good but no one was going to take Whaley's word for it even if that's who he wanted at 10. And also, trading arguably a top 5 corner, top 5 MLB and potential top 5 QB doesn't sound like a good deal. It's a team sport. The Bills just don't have the coaching and weapons that KC does, period. So Mahommes' success would not be a sure thing in Buffalo anyways.

It was McDermott’s draft. Stop.

[ProcessAccepted]

2 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

The Chiefs would laugh at us if we offered them Allen and White for Mahomes.  This will be had trade to win because Mahomes might be an all Time great.  White is awesome but he’s a corner.  Allen would need to become a top 10 type qb.

 

but yeah, we mostly likely lost the deal. Reid took advantage of his former assistant.

Do you honestly think Allen will be the next Mahomes?  But yeah, if Allen throws for 50 tds, we won the trade.

With the lack of overall talent around Allen and him running for his life not to mention keeping us in games he still managed to find Zay for the longest pass (by air distance) all season. The kid is special.

 

[PIZ]

4 minutes ago, CommonCents said:

I love Josh and everything but this is a little bit bananas. 

 

Just saying that the article is ridiculous.  There is no way to know if Mahomes would have been successful in Buffalo.  Hindsight is 20-20.  I think they should have at least waited for Allen to have a full year as a starter after they get a chance to improve the offense.

 

 

[One Buffalo]

35 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

That kind of reduces any interest, as by then the outcome would be known. The question is far more interesting now. Would Bills fans ( or management ) trade those three players for Mahomes today? I would. 

 

Ok fine... I'll play just for the heck of it.  My answer would be probably not.  I think what Mahomes did this year is incredible and I would love to see that happen here.  But to call it a plug and play situation is just not being honest. 

 

My view is that Mahomes success is greatly aided by context.  Look at the whole equation... (many others have said the same so I will keep it brief)

 

1. One year on the bench behind Alex Smith under coaching by Andy Reid and staff - they did a lot of work with him in that time - Mike Kafka basically adopted him 

http://www.espn.com/blog/kansas-city-chiefs/post/_/id/25194/chiefs-coached-the-recklessness-out-patrick-mahomes  Compared with an unproven QB coach, plus Peterman and co... (yikes!)

 

2. Surrounding parts... Tyreek Hill, Travis Kelce, Kareem Hunt, Sammy Watkins (yeah I know), etc.  Compared with the scout team of Kelvin Benjamin, and a bunch of others who might actually turn into something?

 

 

Edited January 10, 2019 by One Buffalo

[CommonCents]

1 minute ago, PIZ said:

 

Just saying that the article is ridiculous.  There is no way to know if Mahomes would have been successful in Buffalo.  Hindsight is 20-20.  I think they should have at least waited for Allen to have a full year as a starter after they get a chance to improve the offense.

 

 

It’s just an article for clicks and discussion. It’s a fair point. If Mahomes continues to destroy the league any team would regret missing out on him. The Bills traded out of that spot when they needed a QB. We all knew this could be the result.

 

I’m high on Allen and it’s okay to have hope that he becomes a great QB, fans can do that while still saying “yikes” Mahomes is a beast. 

 

Projecting two guys into two different scenarios and then comparing those players from what you think would happen is always a sloppy idea. It’s impossible. 

 

Allen grew throughout the year, if that continues then the Mahomes trade will soon be forgotten. 

[HomeskillitMoorman]

I like Josh quite a bit...but yes I would make that trade in a heartbeat. Mahomes looks like an all-timer. 

 

KC obviously never would though. 

[Boatdrinks]

1 minute ago, One Buffalo said:

 

Ok fine... I'll play just for the heck of it.  My answer would be probably not.  I think what Mahomes did this year is incredible and I would love to see that happen here.  But to call it a plug and play situation is just not being honest. 

 

My view is that Mahomes success is greatly aided by context.  Look at the whole equation... (many others have said the same so I will keep it brief)

 

1. One year on the bench behind Alex Smith under coaching by Andy Reid and staff - they did a lot of work with him in that time - Mike Kafka basically adopted him 

http://www.espn.com/blog/kansas-city-chiefs/post/_/id/25194/chiefs-coached-the-recklessness-out-patrick-mahomes

 

2. Surrounding parts... Tyreek Hill, Travis Kelce, Kareem Hunt, Sammy Watkins (yeah I know), etc.  Compared with the scout team of Kelvin Benjamin, and a bunch of others who might actually turn into something?

 

 

I don’t know if many would think that Mahomes would replicate his KC performance in BUF this season. A trade however is more about the long view, not a single year. Would the Bills be better off with Mahomes or White, Jones and Edmunds ? I’d say definitely with Mahomes. His time at QB would probably far exceed any of the other 3 players time with the team , possibly all of them. When you have a top QB, you keep him. It’s a pretty easy decision to me. 

[HomeskillitMoorman]

35 minutes ago, CommonCents said:

Watson was last seen in Clemson.

 

Mahomes is two days away from being slain by CPT. Andrew.

 

Rivers “why practice in NE when the weather is so nice in California” 

 

If Lynn and that SD/LA group of softies go into Patriot Place and lay down they deserve to be flames. Predictable and foolish.

 

I've always thought that about the Chargers and basically always pick against them in the playoffs...but I do think this year's team is a little different. I think this group is tougher and will be up for the challenge in NE. 

 

[BillsFan1988]

2 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Agreed, but it’s not like it didn’t work out for the Bills either. Some trades can be mutually beneficial. I am of the opinion that Allen is going to be special. He may not be Mahomes special, but will be a top 10 QB. If you add that to a couple of pro bowl caliber defenders (White already is and Edmunds will be) you did well. 

My question is why is Edmunds part of this scenario? If we had drafted Mahomes we still pk 21 overall in last yrs draft and we still have Cordy Glenn and Sammy 2nd rd pk. My point is Edmunds could of still been a Bill even if we took Mahomes in 2017.

[BuffaloBillsGospel]

With no GM at the time there was no way our HC was taking a QB.

[dave mcbride]

44 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

The OP is asking a question that the writer was not..............Allen was not selected with any assets acquired in the Mahomes trade..............but yeah, you still trade Allen, White and Edmunds for Mahomes..........he's a proven success and likely Dan Marino 2.0.........while Allen is unproven and White and Edmunds will be retired for 8-10 years when Mahomes is still slinging it in the NFL.

 

But I said a week ago.........once the playoffs get rolling all the paths-not-taken(Mahomes/Watson.....Anthony Lynn/Frank Reich) will start being discussed because they are front and center in the postseason and Bills fans aren't going to like it.

 

McBeane have taken a questionable route to their current optimistic mediocrity............the mid-80's Bills kinda' did to when they chose Kelly over Marino........that looked bad for a few years.......but that time it worked out for the best........hopefully this time it does too.   

 

 

 

 

I think we should hold off on this sort of analysis until Feb 4. I think the Chiefs have a pretty solid shot at winning the SB. I think they're going be extremely hard to beat at Arrowhead, and they WILL score if they get to the SB. The fewest points they had this season was 26, which is truly remarkable. Even the best offensive teams tend to have at least one dud during the season. 

[C.Biscuit97]

15 minutes ago, ProcessAccepted said:

With the lack of overall talent around Allen and him running for his life not to mention keeping us in games he still managed to find Zay for the longest pass (by air distance) all season. The kid is special.

 

He could.  But also completed 52% of his passes (I know it was not his fault) after completing 56% in college (obviously not his fault either) and had a 66 qb rating.  He could very well turn out to be special.  But every other fanbase but ours would laugh at that trade.

5 minutes ago, BuffaloBillsGospel said:

With no GM at the time there was no way our HC was taking a QB.

Our head coach is the GM.  He hired Beane.  He will get the final say.

[Iraq Vet]

Does anyone else notice that the NFL is catching up to Mahomes?  I admit he will be good for a long time.  But not this good.  His weapons will leave via FA or retire or injure out.  Then we will see.

 

 

You put Josh on that team..... he crushes all time records...

[Boatdrinks]

10 minutes ago, BillsFan1988 said:

My question is why is Edmunds part of this scenario? If we had drafted Mahomes we still pk 21 overall in last yrs draft and we still have Cordy Glenn and Sammy 2nd rd pk. My point is Edmunds could of still been a Bill even if we took Mahomes in 2017.

Didn’t they use the Chiefs pick acquired in the trade ( plus another) to draft Edmunds ? I think that’s why. 

[JaCrispy]

Isn’t Mahomes an all-pro?

[dave mcbride]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I believe the OP's title/premise is wrong.........the writer was saying would the Bills trade Tre White, Zay Jones and Tremaine Edmunds for Patrick Mahomes.

 

Allen has nothing to do with Chiefs trade............he was not acquired with any chips from the Chiefs trade.

 

In a way, he did, because the Bills clearly saw the 2018 QB draft - much lauded at the time of the 2017 draft as the "real" QB draft - as the one to go fishing for QBs in. Outside of Mayfield, who is already good, it's way too early to tell how good they 2018 QBs will be, but we the results are in regarding Mahomes. He was the best player in the league this season when it comes to value. 

[Scott7975]

Browns

Bears

49ers

Jags

Titans

Jets

Chargers

Panthers

Bengals

-Any other team could have trade with us or past us to get him

 

All those teams also could have taken him.  Why is the article not written about any of those teams?  Just the Bills.

[Matt_In_NH]

No brainer

[C.Biscuit97]

2 minutes ago, Iraq Vet said:

Does anyone else notice that the NFL is catching up to Mahomes?  I admit he will be good for a long time.  But not this good.  His weapons will leave via FA or retire or injure out.  Then we will see.

 

 

You put Josh on that team..... he crushes all time records...

Wow.  Mahomes only threw 3 tds against Seattle. What a bum.  Literally the worst passing yardage in a game for Mahomes would be the highest in Allen’s career.

 

allen could turn out to be a good qb.   It you look silly putting down what PM did or saying Allen would be doing the same.  Allen wasn’t even dominant in college at Wyoming.  Maybe he gets there but Mahomes is in a different galaxy.

[LSHMEAB]

56 minutes ago, Jobot said:

Just boggles my mind that people think Mahomes would have an MVP season playing on this team.

It boggles my mind that people don't think Mahomes would be good playing on this team. Like he's entirely a product of the system. That is clearly not true. You can talk about Andy Reid all you like, but Mahomes threw for TWICE as many touchdowns in 18 as Alex Smith did in 17 playing with virtually the same team. 

 

Alex Smith also threw for 23, 18, 15, and 20 TD's respectively in the previous 4 years under the great Andy Reid. Guess what? Travis Kelce was a member of all of those teams.  

 

I'm not gonna get into hypothetical, unrealistic trade talk, but people really need to inform themselves if they think Mahomes is just a product of the system. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 10, 2019 by LSHMEAB

[One Buffalo]

I found the article that OP is referencing-

 

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/25720513/lucky-moves-shaped-all-eight-nfl-playoff-rosters-2018

[gjv001]

Where does ESPN find these idiots? No wonder ESPN is having financial problems, they put out a lot of crap.

[PlayoffsPlease]

2 hours ago, DCOrange said:

I mean, Mahomes is about to be named the MVP in his first season as a starter; I think the writer is probably correct that Buffalo would take that in retrospect.

I consider myself one of Josh Allen's biggest fans, and earliest supporters.  Having said that, of course they would take Mahomes, knowing what everyone in the world knows now. 

[Nextmanup]

2 hours ago, Southern Bills Fan said:

If the Bills had evaluated Mahomes and thought he could end up looking anything like the guy who has ripped apart the NFL this season, they obviously would have taken him with their first-round pick. Instead, they sent the 10th selection to the Chiefs for the 27th and 91st selections, along with Kansas City's 2018 first-round pick, which ended up as the 22nd pick. The Bills drafted star cornerback Tre'Davious White with Kansas City's 2017 first-rounder, and then used the other two picks in trades that eventually netted them Zay Jones and Tremaine Edmunds. Sean McDermott undoubtedly loves his two defensive building blocks, and the Bills believe that Josh Allen, their other first-rounder in 2018, can turn into a viable starter, but they would undoubtedly trade all three for Mahomes in a heartbeat.

 

 

I don't think that I would. Thoughts? BTW the article crushes the Bills over Gilmore as well.

Yes, of course this is true.

 

Asking this board what it thinks on such a topic, however, is like asking Hitler, Himmler, and Göring if it was so wrong to initiate the Holocaust.

 

 

[FeelingOnYouboty]

12 minutes ago, Iraq Vet said:

Does anyone else notice that the NFL is catching up to Mahomes?  I admit he will be good for a long time.  But not this good.  His weapons will leave via FA or retire or injure out.  Then we will see.

 

 

You put Josh on that team..... he crushes all time records...

 

Oh brother

[Buffalo Bills Fan]

ESPN= talking crap with nothing better to do. 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

3 hours ago, Southern Bills Fan said:

If the Bills had evaluated Mahomes and thought he could end up looking anything like the guy who has ripped apart the NFL this season, they obviously would have taken him with their first-round pick. Instead, they sent the 10th selection to the Chiefs for the 27th and 91st selections, along with Kansas City's 2018 first-round pick, which ended up as the 22nd pick. The Bills drafted star cornerback Tre'Davious White with Kansas City's 2017 first-rounder, and then used the other two picks in trades that eventually netted them Zay Jones and Tremaine Edmunds. Sean McDermott undoubtedly loves his two defensive building blocks, and the Bills believe that Josh Allen, their other first-rounder in 2018, can turn into a viable starter, but they would undoubtedly trade all three for Mahomes in a heartbeat.

 

 

I don't think that I would. Thoughts? BTW the article crushes the Bills over Gilmore as well.

Got Link.  

 

the post you made doesn't quite add up with the title 

[Freddie's Dead]

At the time the Bills made the trade, I thought we got fleeced by KC.  We should have gotten four picks in return, at least 2017 and 2018 first and second.  2017 1st and 3rd, and 2018 1st, for KC to jump from 27 to 10 [fixed, thanks to whatdrought], was not enough.  And don't give me your draft pick value bull####.  We handed KC a franchise QB for two late first-round picks and an early third-round pick.  We got boned.   

Edited January 10, 2019 by Freddie's Dead

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

4 minutes ago, Buffalo Bills Fan said:

ESPN= talking crap with nothing better to do. 

yup. agreed 

[whatdrought]

41 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

The Chiefs would laugh at us if we offered them Allen and White for Mahomes.  This will be had trade to win because Mahomes might be an all Time great.  White is awesome but he’s a corner.  Allen would need to become a top 10 type qb.

 

but yeah, we mostly likely lost the deal. Reid took advantage of his former assistant.

Do you honestly think Allen will be the next Mahomes?  But yeah, if Allen throws for 50 tds, we won the trade.

 

I have no clue. But anyone who says they knew for sure Mahomes would look like this is wrong- there are no guarentees here. They were similar prospects coming out- freakish athletes with incredible skill sets and big questions marks. 

 

So, I don’t know if he’ll look like Mahomes, I even doubt it somewhat due to situation and offense- but I wouldn’t be shocked if he made a jump, and I wouldn’t be shocked if he was even good enough to be in the MVP talk. I also wouldn’t be shocked if none of that happened.

 

thats the point of my post. If he flames out, then we’d trade everything in our bag for Mahomes and the hindsight will look bad for the bills. But if Allens steps up and Mahomes steps back (or even if he stays the same), it changes the conversation. 

 

Also, as an aside to this whole conversation, Its important to note that you can’t judge whether a decision was right or wrong in the moment based on its outcome- you have to look at the circumstances that led to the decision. If it was obviously the wrong decision at the time (some may argue that about Mahomes, but that seems revisionist to me) that’s one thing, but just because it proves to be the wrong decision with the addition of time, doesn’t mean it was originally. 

[Trogdor]

2 hours ago, dneveu said:

1 - We had a lameduck GM who we didn't want drafting our QB of the future

2 - Mahomes was a Junior and didn't attend the senior bowl.  

3 - McD drafted mostly players who attended the senior bowl with Milano the main exception (Tre White, Zay Jones, Dion Dawkins, Nate Peterman)

 

I don't think mahomes would really thrive here without Reid TBH - a seasoned QB coach and Offensive guy.  Not to mention our trainwreck of a line, and our utter lack of weapons.  Imagine that no look pass bouncing off of benjamins chest ?

 

And our defense would be pretty lousy without white and edmunds.

 

I'm not sure we'd be like... drafting another QB, but I'm not sure we're much better off than we are right now.

You should probably pick a side and stick to it. Either McD missed or Whaley missed. I personally think Mahomes, Darby, Edmunds > Allen, White, and Edmunds. Even better would be Glenn in there. 

Edited January 10, 2019 by Trogdor

[BillsVet]

1 hour ago, APoxOnYou said:

Tyreek Hill is the most talented player on the Chiefs, not Mahomes.

 

And when it's time to re-sign both players, I'm thinking Mahomes will get paid more than Tyreek Hill.  By at least 10M per season. 

 

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

As I and Boatdrinks posted.............the OP is claiming something was said that was not.........misleading title,  perhaps to rouse the rabble.

 

When did people on a message board start posting threads that resembled the click-bait ads that run on every website?  Because I'm pretty sure they're not getting paid by view.

[whatdrought]

2 minutes ago, Freddie's Dead said:

At the time the Bills made the trade, I thought we got fleeced by KC.  We should have gotten four picks in return, at least 2017 and 2018 first and second.  2017 1st and 3rd, and 2018 1st, for KC to jump from 21 to 7, was not enough.  And don't give me your draft pick value bull####.  We handed KC a franchise QB for two late first-round picks and an early third-round pick.  We got boned.   

 

We handed the Chiefs a draft pick. 

 

I agree, it seemed like less than I would have expected, but that seems to be the market rate... based on draft value charts. 

 

 

(It was 10th to 27th) 

[RobbRiddick]

I'm loving Allen and am more excited about the immediate future than I have been in a LONG time. However, if the Bills were guaranteed that by making that trade Mahomes would continue to play the way he has been (which is highly doubtful considering the lack of a supporting cast) then of course they'd make the trade. Allen is still in the 'potential' bracket, whereas Mahomes has proven he can do it consistently over a season.

 

But (and I was thinking about this yesterday when reading the QB carousal thread), if the Bills for some inexplicable reason were to release Allen tomorrow, how many teams do you think would be fighting to snag him? I'd say a hell of a lot of teams, including the likes of Denver who passed on him in the same way we passed on Mahomes. I think Elway would trade both his testicles for the chance to get Allen on his team now.

 

The moral of my post is, in hindsight we did pass on a very, very good QB, but after seeing every single Josh Allen play this season from preseason all the way to the Dolphins game, I'd say there's a damn good chance there will be plenty of teams who regret on either passing him over or not making a move for him themselves.