Doc Posted December 29, 2018 Share Posted December 29, 2018 I'd rather see him in motion in the slot. Put Foster and someone else on the outside, be that a FA or draft pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted December 29, 2018 Share Posted December 29, 2018 6 minutes ago, BillyWhiteShows said: Well there’s is no doubt he has improved a bit since last year. I also would be fine keeping him on the roster. My only point is that this season his stats don’t really give a good idea of his true contributions this years. While they are decent stats for a #2, I do believe that many of his catches came at the end of the game when defenses were allowing catches in front of them. I also remember a number of very untimely drops from Zay and can’t remember one game where he really took over like good receivers do. like I said, he has improved but still has a long way to go. I do agree a better #1 WR would help his production ...fair enough...he's on probation until we set what draft/FA bring to the table and the eventual camp as well as pre-season competition....stay tuned............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott7975 Posted December 29, 2018 Share Posted December 29, 2018 Charles Clay had just as many catches, yards, and drops with Tyrod Taylor. People wanted both out of town. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddie's Dead Posted December 29, 2018 Share Posted December 29, 2018 3 hours ago, JoPar_v2 said: Pretty sure Zay was drafted to be a solid #2 receiver? He’s on his way to becoming one. So not sure what the problem is. Glad he's a solid #2, liquid #2 is messy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offyourocker Posted December 29, 2018 Share Posted December 29, 2018 Eric Moulds 1996 20 rec 279 yards 1997 27 rec 294 yards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted December 29, 2018 Share Posted December 29, 2018 8 hours ago, TroutDog said: He’s in his second year and will improve to a solid number two If it takes two years to develop a solid number two, it's time for Metamucil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerJ Posted December 29, 2018 Share Posted December 29, 2018 I don't know what Zay Jones might develop into in the future, but I'm not counting on him becoming more than a #2 receiver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boca BIlls Posted December 29, 2018 Share Posted December 29, 2018 4 hours ago, JoPar_v2 said: Pretty sure Zay was drafted to be a solid #2 receiver? He’s on his way to becoming one. So not sure what the problem is. He needs to catch the ball... 27 minutes ago, offyourocker said: Eric Moulds 1996 20 rec 279 yards 1997 27 rec 294 yards When you have to quote wr stats from the 90's you know the guy you are comparing him to is in trouble. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted December 29, 2018 Share Posted December 29, 2018 31 minutes ago, offyourocker said: Eric Moulds 1996 20 rec 279 yards 1997 27 rec 294 yards Except Moulds wasn't the #2 WR in either of those seasons 1996 Andre Reed 66 1036 1996 Quinn Early 50 798 1996 Steve Tasker 21 372 1997 Andre Reed 60 880 1997 Quinn Early 60 853 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted December 29, 2018 Share Posted December 29, 2018 6 hours ago, TaskersGhost said: He's a garbage-time specialist. He was in college too. The only reason why he has as many receptions as he does is entirely due to lack of options. I dont agree with Ghost much.....but I do here.....it seems like Zay's numbers come AFTER the game has been dedided (usually a loss) You dont see him making the play when the game i on the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughing Coffin Posted December 29, 2018 Share Posted December 29, 2018 Zay foster and McKenzie all have a future here. I’m not satisfied with any of them though, they need to continue to improve. Still need a #1 that can play on the outside and can make tough back shoulder catches. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offyourocker Posted December 29, 2018 Share Posted December 29, 2018 16 minutes ago, Boca BIlls said: He needs to catch the ball... When you have to quote wr stats from the 90's you know the guy you are comparing him to is in trouble. Davante Adams 2014 38rec 446 yards 2015 50rec 483 yards 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABILLBACKER Posted December 29, 2018 Share Posted December 29, 2018 Right now I consider Zay no higher than a #4 slot guy and that's borderline. Robert Foster is a clear #3 wr who becomes your deep "stretch the field" guy. This team currently has no #1 or #2 wr. I think Tyrell Williams would make a good #2 and either Marquise Brown or NKeal Harry as a #1 projected guy? I've seen Brown and Harry projected late 1st or early 2nd. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boca BIlls Posted December 29, 2018 Share Posted December 29, 2018 (edited) 6 minutes ago, offyourocker said: Davante Adams 2014 38rec 446 yards 2015 50rec 483 yards So Zay is a #3? Except he is a #3 that cant catch... Edited December 29, 2018 by Boca BIlls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Success Posted December 29, 2018 Share Posted December 29, 2018 Receiver is a position that has a steeper learning curve than most. Rookies can sometimes make a splash, but it usually can take a couple of years before you know what you have. I see a guy who made a huge leap from last year, but is still inconsistent. He will benefit from the Bills adding a true 1 to the roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted December 29, 2018 Share Posted December 29, 2018 4 hours ago, Happy Gilmore said: Probably so. How many on this board have the player college evals and knowledge that the coaches, GMs, and scouts have on draft day? Do you? Doubt it. Hindsight is pretty much what we have in absence of professional scouting reports, not the stuff that the Mel Kipers and Mike Mayocks of the world put out. You evaluate their production relative to their draft position, not to other players that you could have had at that specific position. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formerlyofCtown Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 11 hours ago, Binghamton Beast said: But....he is a #1 right now (I think) and only has that number. What if he was looked at as a #2? What would his catch total be? What has it been the last four weeks or so with Foster’s emergence? IMO, Zay is a borderline 3/4 receiver. Dime a dozen guy that belongs nowhere near the top two. No Foster is the #1. He is Josh Allen's preferred Target and the player teams try to shut down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
par73 Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 The way he has played (had one or two good games all year), he is more like a depth guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 The statistical analysis cited to demonstrate Zay is a 2 is about as deep a dive as jumping into a puddle. It proves nothing. The fact is, much of his production comes when games were not in doubt: He had 3 catches for 26 yards late at Baltimore. 2 catches for 63 yards versus SD when Buffalo was down 21-3 or worse. He had 1 catch at Minnesota for 17 yards when the score was 27-0. At GB, his 4 catches for 38 yards all came when the score was 19-0 or worse. Against Indy, he had 1 catch for 15 yards with the score 24-0. He had 3 catches for 7 yards versus Chicago with the difference of 28 points or worse. At the Jets, 3 of his catches (for 28 yards) came with Buffalo up more than 2 TDs. And at NE, all 5 of his receptions for 67 yards came with Buffalo out of it. By my count, that's 22 catches for 261 yards (and 2 TDs) when the game is not in question. There aren't many WR2s who log 45% of their production in garbage time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterpan Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 I'd say he is a #3 right now. Foster is clearly the best wr on the team and McKenzie is second. McKenzie is debatable I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Murica Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 I wanted Zay or Kupp in that draft. I was happy with Zay, but not with the fact we traded up to get him to jump ahead of Carolina. I still an not not a fan of the drops and he catches the ball too often with his body. Maybe, he just can’t handle the heat from Allen’s fast ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlbillsfan1975 Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 Zay is a slot receiver and seems to makes his best catches either running latter patterns or coming back to the ball. When used correctly Zay will be good. Foster is the deep threat and speed receiver. McKenzie is a gadget guy and 4th receiver. Bills need What Benjamin could be if he had cared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Dude Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 His drops show that on the “bathroom code” he is a #2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 20 hours ago, Thurman#1 said: The fact that you have to go back to his college days proves how poor your point is. College ceases to matter once you're on an NFL roster. Zay's stats - in the NFL - do show he's a #2. I didn't actually. I simply knew his collegiate track record as part of my draft analysis. The team's "experts"would have been well-served to have done the same. My statement that you refer to was predicated ENTIRELY on this season's splits. Why do i have to comment on posts like yours? Did you even bother to look at much less analyze them? Sounds kind of like the people I was just referring to. In other news, Zay presently, thru 15 games that us, ranks 183rd league-wide in catch %. Sound like a solid #2 to you? Scratch that, of course it does. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maine-iac Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 To Zay's credit he has improved this year. He went from being horrible all the time to only being horrible half the time. All this from a person (me) who expected him to be like Cooper Kupp or Josh Reynolds. When I saw him in the Senior Bowl I thought he was going to be great. He still might but he needs to learn how to consistently catch the damn ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TroutDog Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 17 hours ago, /dev/null said: If it takes two years to develop a solid number two, it's time for Metamucil I would take the time to look at the history of receivers and how long it takes the vast majority to make the transition to what they are fully capable of at this level. Yes, there are outliers, but the general trend is it takes three to five years. Ever heard of Robert Wood? Andre Reed? Tim Brown? Etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob in STL Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 (edited) No. He is not a two on most teams. Most teams with better talent would not stand for the drops and the inconsistencies in route running. He is still afforded more development time due to his age. He is a 3 or 4 or 5 on a strong playoff team. Maybe not even that if he doesn’t play special teams. Edited December 30, 2018 by Bob in STL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 (edited) 18 hours ago, John from Riverside said: I dont agree with Ghost much.....but I do here.....it seems like Zay's numbers come AFTER the game has been dedided (usually a loss) You dont see him making the play when the game i on the line. Here's the thing John, and I'm seriously not trying to be snotty or anything, but there is data, stats out there, that reveal exactly where/when/etc. his catches have come. We don't have to watch or subject ourselves to a semi-subjective "eye test," we can go and directly look at the numbers and data to find out. I don't even remember which of numerous sites I went to to look that up. Yeah, I get it, stats don't always tell the whole story, but they tell a whole lot of it. What's left is reconciliations between the "eye test" and the actual results. That's where sound analysis comes into play. Either way, Jones is going to finish the season with around 600 yards, on a team starving for WR talent. He's currently ranked 183rd league-wide in catch-%, something that he's struggled with since he came to the NFL. And that's with an enormous boost from his 183rd status (out of 200) up from 210th (out of 212) last season. He's got zero 100-yard games. Only 1 game over 70 yards, and a mere 5 games greater than 55 yards. I mean who honestly thinks that those are starting, meaning #1 or #2, WR numbers? If he were on the Jets, Fins, or Pats would everyone here be arguing the same? Heck, people don't give Hogan the same credit despite much better numbers and a far greater impact. He also ranks tied for 192nd in YAC. Here are some of his weaknesses from his draft profile, maybe McBeane should have paid a little bit more attention to them, particularly that 4th one, since they typically doom WRs entering the NFL. WEAKNESSES Play speed is very average. Lacks vertical push to force cornerbacks to open and run early and doesn't have second gear to separate from coverage down the field. Thin frame. Struggles to find clean releases against press coverage due to play strength and foot quickness. High-volume production helped by high percentage of short throws and wide receiver screens. Sticky out of breaks and unable to shake tight coverage. Limited amount of burst and wiggle after the catch and won't create much more than is there. Sound/look familiar? Edited December 30, 2018 by TaskersGhost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBud420 Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 He is not even a number 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socal-805 Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 On 12/29/2018 at 5:47 AM, Binghamton Beast said: But....he is a #1 right now (I think) and only has that number. What if he was looked at as a #2? What would his catch total be? What has it been the last four weeks or so with Foster’s emergence? IMO, Zay is a borderline 3/4 receiver. Dime a dozen guy that belongs nowhere near the top two. + 1 Does almost nothing for this team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPS Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 He had a Pretty good Day today to pad those stats... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formerlyofCtown Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 23 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said: Right now I consider Zay no higher than a #4 slot guy and that's borderline. Robert Foster is a clear #3 wr who becomes your deep "stretch the field" guy. This team currently has no #1 or #2 wr. I think Tyrell Williams would make a good #2 and either Marquise Brown or NKeal Harry as a #1 projected guy? I've seen Brown and Harry projected late 1st or early 2nd. I dont think there is a team in the league with a number 4 that good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueandRed Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 Zays play is as bi-polar as his personality... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formerlyofCtown Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 23 hours ago, John from Riverside said: I dont agree with Ghost much.....but I do here.....it seems like Zay's numbers come AFTER the game has been dedided (usually a loss) You dont see him making the play when the game i on the line. Yup the game today was definitly in garbage time when the score was 7-0 in the first quarter. 23 hours ago, Success said: Receiver is a position that has a steeper learning curve than most. Rookies can sometimes make a splash, but it usually can take a couple of years before you know what you have. I see a guy who made a huge leap from last year, but is still inconsistent. He will benefit from the Bills adding a true 1 to the roster. You might as well save your breath man. Some people on this board dont realise that and refuse to accept it even when you back it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 2 minutes ago, formerlyofCtown said: Yup the game today was definitly in garbage time when the score was 7-0 in the first quarter. You might as well save your breath man. Some people on this board dont realise that and refuse to accept it even when you back it up. Jones had a good game today.....but you would not agree that he has not been consistant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dezertbill Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 I agree that Jones is a solid 2. I also believe Foster can be an electric option out of the slot. Bills need a true #1 to attract the double team and truly free these guys up. Also having a solid TE threat will alleviate that. It all comes down to finding that number 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formerlyofCtown Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 3 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: Jones had a good game today.....but you would not agree that he has not been consistant? He has been inconsistent for sure which is not unusual for a second year WR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BakersBills Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 his hands arent reliable, until they are it hes at best a 3/4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshAllenHasBigHands Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 16 minutes ago, BakersBills said: his hands arent reliable, until they are it hes at best a 3/4 Boy, id love to have an offense where our third and fourth WR are ranked top 50 in the league. I wonder if you’re right enough to figure out how dumb your comment was... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victory Formation Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 21 minutes ago, BakersBills said: his hands arent reliable, until they are it hes at best a 3/4 #3 and #4 WRs don't score 7 TDs a year and Zay isn't done growing. He's not a #1, but he can be a very good #2. He'll have even more production next year when Allen settles down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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