st pete gogolak Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 I was among the crowd unhappy with the Allen selection. As Vince Lombardi is often misquoted "accuracy isn't everything, it's the only thing". But after watching some of his college tape and especially the pre-season games, I came around. Based on the first five games of the season, it's WAY too early to make any generalizations as to where this ends up. But. . . you've got a kid with linebacker size, really strong arm, very good runner and serious accuracy issues. Remind you of anyone? Cam Newton, perhaps? If Allen's ceiling is in the Cam Newton zip code, is that a bad thing? After all, Newton's got an MVP trophy and has taken a team to the Super Bowl. Are the similarities to Cam what attracted McBeane to Allen? Better line, much better receivers, a year to learn how to diagnose defenses and make quicker decisions and, most important, just like in Carolina, an offensive scheme designed to take advantage of his strengths and I think we will be ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABILLBACKER Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 ....more like the Cam IPA.... 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DollaBills Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 Theres so much conjecture over what Allen's ceiling is. No one knows. Trash QB's have turned into franchise players and elite college players have become enormous busts. Theres a plethora of factors. Give it time 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheElectricCompany Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 Cam scored 35 TDs in his rookie year, 45 in his MVP year. If that's what Allen can produce, yeah, SIGN ME UP. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kota Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 please make it stop.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quinnearlysghost88 Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 i think he could be a 100 percent big ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebel101 Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 1 minute ago, quinnearlysghost88 said: i think he could be a 100 percent big ben Big Ben isn’t as athletic and has way better pocket awareness and movement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeHateMe Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 (edited) People underestimate how good Cam is and was.. Allen won't sniff what Cam did as a rookie. He was a beast. Edited October 8, 2018 by HeHateMe 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Linen Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 5 minutes ago, Rebel101 said: Big Ben isn’t as athletic and has way better pocket awareness and movement He's in year 15. His several years they were a running team with Ben being serviceable. He's also almost always been around some incredible wide receivers and tight ends. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhoTom Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 One more similarity: next year, when Kelvin Benjamin is on another team, he'll probably badmouth Josh just like he did Cam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 No, that's his floor, we will never see this from Josh. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Domdab99 Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 Here's a hot take: WE DON'T !@#$ING KNOW YET. HE'S PLAYED 4 AND A HALF GAMES! 4 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsfaninSB Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 It will be quite awhile before we know what Josh is and Is not. I’m glad he is getting starts under his belt. For now, we just have to grit our teeth and take it for the rest of the year whatever that might be. Hopefully we see an upward trend soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jr1 Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 just spitballing here but maybe he'd do better without a QB coach that hadn't been a QB coach in 30 years 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah John Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 The main thing to me is that Allen seems not to be letting his rookie mistakes define himself. He's not an ineffective QB who will never get better. He's a rookie QB from a second-rate college conference learning the game behind a poor O line with terrible WRs, and the Bills are 2-2 in games he's started. He isn't cocky or depressed, he's an even-keeled guy the Bills can build around. Let's go from there and see how things develop. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st pete gogolak Posted October 8, 2018 Author Share Posted October 8, 2018 23 minutes ago, Domdab99 said: Here's a hot take: WE DON'T !@#$ING KNOW YET. HE'S PLAYED 4 AND A HALF GAMES! Agree wholeheartedly but that doesn't seem to stop anyone else from expressing an opinion! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straight Hucklebuck Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 https://wgr550.radio.com/media/audio-channel/04-30-bills-general-manager-brandon-beane-howard-and-jeremy First Question out of the Gate: Why Josh Allen Beane's Answer: 1. Big, Strong, Athletic 2. Earned everything 3. Not recruited 4. Never complained 5. No NFL caliber players at Wyoming 6. When hurt his team immediately lost two games 7. He was the Wyoming team 8. Can run the ball like the Panthers Cam Newton 9. Pro Style offense and can make reads 10. Weather a consideration in January football I think Beane looked for the next Cam Newton. It's what he knows. https://www.newyorkupstate.com/buffalo-bills/index.ssf/2017/07/buffalo_bills_gm_brandon_beane_describes_what_he_looks_for_in_franchise_quarterb.html "It's a quarterback league. I mean, who are we kidding?" Beane said. "If you look at the playoffs teams, the consistent guys that at least qualify for the playoffs or are close every year, most of them have QBs, most of them have a legit quarterback. If you want to use the word franchise, whatever word you want to use, so I understand that. Cam in Carolina was, is, a franchise quarterback. If you're a GM, you have to find a franchise quarterback. It obviously helps keep you on a consistent playing field if you have one, so I get that." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleeby Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 He's just a boy! Cripes. Let the be for two years. Let's talk about what we do know - the rest of the offense and who might we keep. Going to be a very young and fresh offense next season I suspect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 43 minutes ago, HeHateMe said: People underestimate how good Cam is and was.. Allen won't sniff what Cam did as a rookie. He was a beast. Now if only we had Steve Smith! or McCaffrey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuckyBoys Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 I don't doubt that having a big strong guy who can run if need be wasn't a factor for them I think he will be quite effective in the late season home games when wind/snow gets snotty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straight Hucklebuck Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 Beane was also asked in that interview about not selecting a WR in the Draft until the 6th Round and he said the Bills stuck true to their board and it kept falling on defense. Asked about Dez Bryant, said they'll talk about it. In terms of Free Agent WRs: You'll see some guys coming out in the Free Agent waters, Maclin, Decker came out last year. 9 picks in 2019, cap should be better in 2019, knows they have a ways to go. No focus on Benjamin extension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 (edited) Allen’s ceiling is league MVP and his floor is where he is now. Edited October 8, 2018 by Kirby Jackson 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 2 hours ago, kota said: please make it stop.... ...why?...isn't it a valid comparison?...Cam enters year 8 with 113 starts.......Josh is in year 1 with 5 starts....seems pretty fair to me.......based on TBD standards of analysis... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quinnearlysghost88 Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 2 hours ago, Rebel101 said: Big Ben isn’t as athletic and has way better pocket awareness and movement Agreed. Has anyone talked about the fact that we have won when keeping Josh's PAs under 25? 22 for both Ws. Look at Big Ben's rookie year when he went 13-0. PA per game were 22. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 (edited) This should be a poll. I'm too lazy to set it up. QUESTION: After 4 years in the league, the "finished product" Josh Allen as he enters free agency (or his option year) will most resemble which of the following at the same point? A. Ben Roethlisberger B. Cam Newton C. Blake Bortles D. Brandon Weeden E. Jake Locker F. Blaine Gabbert [Yes, all deliberately chosen to reflect similar attributes to Allen ... Big/Mobile/Athletic/Big Arm, thought in some respect to be raw or "project" draft choices. And yes, this is kind of a descending scale from future HOFer all the way down to total bust.] EDIT: I added Brandon Weeden. We forget about him. Obviously he was older than Allen when he entered the league, but there are some similarities ... Edited October 8, 2018 by The Frankish Reich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uticaclub Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 (edited) 1 minute ago, The Frankish Reich said: This should be a poll. I'm too lazy to set it up. QUESTION: After 4 years in the league, the "finished product" Josh Allen as he enters free agency (or his option year) will most resemble which of the following at the same point? A. Ben Roethlisberger B. Cam Newton C. Blake Bortles D. Jake Locker E. Blaine Gabbert [Yes, all deliberately chosen to reflect similar attributes to Allen ... Big/Mobile/Athletic/Big Arm, thought in some respect to be raw or "project" draft choices. And yes, this is kind of a descending scale from future HOFer all the way down to total bust.] Hoping A or B, but probably C or E Edited October 8, 2018 by uticaclub Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 2 minutes ago, uticaclub said: Hoping A or B, but probably C or E Right now, my realistic hope is C (Blake Bortles). But Brandon Weeden (my late entry) and Jake Locker also seem like reasonable options. Sure, Ben and Cam are possibilities, but they were the same possibilities out there for guys like Bortles. When you draft one of these guys (huge talent/very raw) you have to realize that only a tiny minority make it to the elite level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US Egg Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 "Is Allen's Ceiling Cam Newton Lite" ?.... .....the Bills brass (and fans) would take that ASAP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st pete gogolak Posted October 8, 2018 Author Share Posted October 8, 2018 I'm not trying to define the kid's career after 4 games. Really, really not. The point of the thread was to speculate as to his ceiling. Key word there is speculate. Cam Newton has had two years with a completion percentage above 60% (actually one of the two years was 60% so he's had a grand total of one year above 60%). Newton's kind of a unicorn in that respect. An extremely successful NFL QB who is not terribly accurate. The point however is that if we drafted unicorn 2.0 we still can have a franchise quarterback who's completion percentage hovers around 60%. And it isn't fair to even compare rookie Cam to rookie Josh. Cam won the Heisman and played in the SEC. I am firmly in the camp that Allen would have been better off sitting this year but it is what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 2 hours ago, st pete gogolak said: I was among the crowd unhappy with the Allen selection. As Vince Lombardi is often misquoted "accuracy isn't everything, it's the only thing". But after watching some of his college tape and especially the pre-season games, I came around. Based on the first five games of the season, it's WAY too early to make any generalizations as to where this ends up. But. . . you've got a kid with linebacker size, really strong arm, very good runner and serious accuracy issues. Remind you of anyone? Cam Newton, perhaps? If Allen's ceiling is in the Cam Newton zip code, is that a bad thing? After all, Newton's got an MVP trophy and has taken a team to the Super Bowl. Are the similarities to Cam what attracted McBeane to Allen? Better line, much better receivers, a year to learn how to diagnose defenses and make quicker decisions and, most important, just like in Carolina, an offensive scheme designed to take advantage of his strengths and I think we will be ok. Cam can be very accurate. Cam gets lazy and often tries to get away with things because he has the rocket arm. He loves those deep balls across the field off his back foot for instance. While they have some commonality- I don’t think it’s apples to apples in the cause of the accuracy inconsistencies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, st pete gogolak said: I was among the crowd unhappy with the Allen selection. As Vince Lombardi is often misquoted "accuracy isn't everything, it's the only thing". But after watching some of his college tape and especially the pre-season games, I came around. Based on the first five games of the season, it's WAY too early to make any generalizations as to where this ends up. But. . . you've got a kid with linebacker size, really strong arm, very good runner and serious accuracy issues. Remind you of anyone? Cam Newton, perhaps? If Allen's ceiling is in the Cam Newton zip code, is that a bad thing? After all, Newton's got an MVP trophy and has taken a team to the Super Bowl. Are the similarities to Cam what attracted McBeane to Allen? Better line, much better receivers, a year to learn how to diagnose defenses and make quicker decisions and, most important, just like in Carolina, an offensive scheme designed to take advantage of his strengths and I think we will be ok. Steve Young. This is who I see his arc looking like. And like Allen, Steve Young looked bad and struggled early on a terrible expansion franchise. As soon as he got to the 49ers and got real talent around him, he literally unseated the GOAT Joe Montana who they traded before he was done to be able to play Steve Young who would go on to deliver a SB trophy shortly after and go down as an all time great QB. The comparison has nothing to do with skin color either as someone said in another thread one time. I think they are similar players who faced similar challenges in their early careers. But, like Young, Allen has an immense ceiling, big arm, and can make you pay with his legs when he has too. Also like Young, the kid has a heart of steal (not something I think many will say about Cam) and inspire the players around him (also not something many say about Cam). He is built more like Cam in terms of his size, but I think when Allen finds his groove and some talent comes around, he is going to resemble Young more as a QB than Cam. This is all opinion obviously because NONE of us know what he WILL or WONT be. But I think the kid has a bright future and I see a Steve Young type style to him really start coming into form once the kid gets a better team around him that he can trust. Honestly for me, I think his #1 biggest issue is that he does not trust the guys around him right now and is trying to do too much himself. McD said it best, he HAS TO take what the D gives him. His lack of trust in the OL is giving him happy feet and sloppy mechanics, and I think he is always looking to try and get the big play too much to rally the team. Too often there are easy check downs he doesnt even look at because he is trying to get the ball down field and with his arm to carry the team. He just isnt ready for that yet and he also doesnt have personnel around him to help him out. He has to start making decisions based on whats there and not keep trying to find something bigger cuz the WRs just dont consistently get enough separation. And that time he's looking for it causes the OL to not hold up too, and again, happy feet come into play. I am all in on Josh, and I feel strongly about his future. And I was a doubter in the offseason until the kid won me over before the draft and has only strengthened my confidence in him so far. I can live with mistakes, the offense is terrible around him and he has no help. 28 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said: This should be a poll. I'm too lazy to set it up. QUESTION: After 4 years in the league, the "finished product" Josh Allen as he enters free agency (or his option year) will most resemble which of the following at the same point? A. Ben Roethlisberger B. Cam Newton C. Blake Bortles D. Brandon Weeden E. Jake Locker F. Blaine Gabbert [Yes, all deliberately chosen to reflect similar attributes to Allen ... Big/Mobile/Athletic/Big Arm, thought in some respect to be raw or "project" draft choices. And yes, this is kind of a descending scale from future HOFer all the way down to total bust.] EDIT: I added Brandon Weeden. We forget about him. Obviously he was older than Allen when he entered the league, but there are some similarities ... G. Steve Young. My answer. Edited October 8, 2018 by Alphadawg7 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dablitzkrieg Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 The ceiling is the roof 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 More concerned about what his floor is, but I’m the nervous type. But OPTIMISTIC still! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Toll Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 Ceiling is probably closer to either Young or Favre. Floor is what he is right now. One good thing is he should be facing a tough defense in practice. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US Egg Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Troll Toll said: Ceiling is probably closer to either Young or Favre. Yeah, a person can dream....enjoy the song/video and see if you can find all the big name music stars who were in this video. There's a few, but you likely need to be at least 50 to recognize them. Edited October 8, 2018 by I am the egg man 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thurst44 Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 21 minutes ago, I am the egg man said: Yeah, a person can dream....enjoy the song/video and see if you can find all the big name music stars who were in this video. There's a few, but you likely need to be at least 50 to recognize them. The ceiling is the dream. Also, great song, great video. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 Well Cam was the 1st person I thought of watching college tape. Cam is more naturally a playmaker though. He has a better feel for the game speed. If Allen can speed up his processing he has a chance to be similar to Cam Newton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 What if he brings attributes of both Cam AND Big Ben Just be the best Josh Allen you can be sir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gobills1212 Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 (edited) Jeepers... What id honestly like to know is do these posters actually think their thoughts are original, and or unique and thats why a new post is warranted? Edited October 8, 2018 by gobills1212 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 57 minutes ago, Troll Toll said: Ceiling is probably closer to either Young or Favre. Floor is what he is right now. One good thing is he should be facing a tough defense in practice. Favre is actually a really good comp for his ceiling. Chances he hit Favre level? Well, we can argue, but I assume everyone will admit that it's low. I'm not really seeing Steve Young; maybe it's because of the lefty thing causing a mental block, but they don't seem like the same type of QB. Even in his difficult early years you could see the uncanny ability to throw on the run, and you could also see that he never had the cannon arm that Allen has. Just kind of a different QB profile. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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