Is Josh Allen just a taller Tyrod Taylor

[Mrbojanglezs]

Josh Allen is not afraid to let it rip

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

On 10/7/2018 at 9:29 PM, C.Biscuit97 said:

It was a legit thread that showed double standards some fans have.

 

No it's not

 

One player's a rookie in his fourth start, the other's an 8 year veteran. There is no double standard.

 

[billsbackto81]

8 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Agree 100%.   But that’s why I hated the Allen picl.  Do you trust the Bills to develop a raw qb?  This regime has failed at almost every offensive personnel move.  Now, We just have to trust them?

To be fair all rookie QBs are having a tough go of it in the NFL. Even Mayfield who has the most talent around him of any of the QBs has had his brain fart moments. Way too early CB though your concerns are legitimate. But as many continue to point out our O line is mediocre, WRs are MIA and OC so far is uninspiring. Plus it seems the coaches plan on protecting Allen as much as possible by running the ball with incredible predictability making it difficult to establish rhythm with his awesome receiving corps. Time will tell but I give you credit for defending your post addressing each flame as it comes. Many here post and then " tuck and run". 

Edited October 8, 2018 by billsbackto81

[FeelingOnYouboty]

He’s worse because at least Tyrod didn’t turn the ball over 

[longtimebillsfan]

7 minutes ago, FeelingOnYouboty said:

He’s worse because at least Tyrod didn’t turn the ball over 

Allen's interception against the Titan was not his fault.  It bounced off the receivers hands.

[FeelingOnYouboty]

Just now, longtimebillsfan said:

Allen's interception against the Titan was not his fault.  It bounced off the receivers hands.

 

Agreed there. That’s just bad luck but he was throwing at his receivers feet for most of that game. 

[Fixxxer]

9 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

You realized our qb passed for 80 yard in a W?  He “led” a comeback where his coach won’t let him throw the ball past the line of scrimmage?

 

Do you realize that you're complaining about the offensive coaching staff for not putting the ball in the hands of the QB you don't trust?

[Teddy KGB]

15 minutes ago, FeelingOnYouboty said:

He’s worse because at least Tyrod didn’t turn the ball over 

 

The guy had Watkins, Woods, Goodwin. Hogan, Mccoy and still had 100 yard passing days. 

 

Allen > Tyrod all day every day 

 

Watkins 6 grabs for 78 yards vs the Jags yesterday could have helped Allen a ton 

 

Edited October 8, 2018 by Teddy KGB

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

7 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

With all respect, potential and lack of potential look the same until potential is realized ?

Their run blocking has been factually awful with occasional glimpses of passable

 

Like I said, I'm going to be interested to have a look at the all-22

 sorry Hap.  I got a chuckle from the first line 

 

 

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

yeah, a rookie after his third start sure does look a lot like a 7 year vet. thing is,  once allen gets the supporting cast around him and plays 7 years the OP can look back on how dumb of a comparison he used here.

Edited October 8, 2018 by no name

[FeelingOnYouboty]

1 hour ago, Teddy KGB said:

 

The guy had Watkins, Woods, Goodwin. Hogan, Mccoy and still had 100 yard passing days. 

 

Allen > Tyrod all day every day 

 

Watkins 6 grabs for 78 yards vs the Jags yesterday could have helped Allen a ton 

 

 

I'm no Tyrod Taylor fan and yes Allen has been put in an awful situation with a lack of offensive talent around him but that doesn't explain his deficiencies. Multiple times yesterday he made WR's try to catch what should've been easy completions off the carpet. 

[TheElectricCompany]

Tyrod was faster and historically displayed much better accuracy. 

As a passer, Allen has a long way to go.

The Captain Checkdown offense we saw against Tennessee and Minnesota isn't sustainable. 

[bobobonators]

My biggest concern isnt with Allen’s ability, it’s with the lack of offensive talent and offensive minds (coaches) on this team. 

 

Allen is facing an uphill battle unfortunately because no one on this coaching staff should be near an NFL offense. 

 

Add the fact that we have no offensive threats beyond a 30yr old shady. It’s clear Allen has not landed in a good spot. Hopefully he can stand the storm for a year or 2 so we can surround him with an Oline and 4 new WR. 

[Chicken Boo]

11 hours ago, Doc said:

Like I said before, give Allen Watkins, Woods, Goodwin and Hogan and then we can compare the two.  Oh yeah, and 5 more years in the league.

 

I agree that he needs more talent around him, but no amount of talent is going to magically make Allen into an accurate passer.

[Doc]

10 hours ago, kbarrettb said:

How’d Josh Rosen do today? 77 qb rating

Baker? 81.7

Darnold? 98.1

Allen 42

This is his 4th start his OC isn’t giving him any help either with the long running route trees these people are running. But right now he’s 4th out of the 5 qbs who were drafted and that’s just because Jackson hasn’t started yet. He needs to pick it up. I’m not nervous because it’ll take a bit. But he doesn’t look good throwing the ball. And playing qb in this league has never ever been easier. 

 

Anyone know what Josh’s rating would be if we remove the INT?  And then if we add the catch and yardage?

[Chuck Wagon]

It's really tough just having the broadcast angle, but from what I saw of the game there were several instances the oline gave Allen all the time in the world to process and he ended up eating the ball.  Without having the all-22, it was impossible for me to tell if our receivers just couldn't get open or if he's simply locking on one guy and focused on not making mistakes.

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

11 hours ago, Doc said:

Like I said before, give Allen Watkins, Woods, Goodwin and Hogan and then we can compare the two.  Oh yeah, and 5 more years in the league.

 

This should've ended this thread. 

[blacklabel]

The fact that Allen doesn't fear any throw to any point on the field is proof enough for me that he's not a taller Tyrod Taylor. He's gonna show hesitancy from time to time and other times he's going to drop back, decide and throw, like that perfect pass he hit to Clay over the middle early in the game. That was executed exactly how it's drawn up. Allen dropped and as soon as he hit his back foot he fired it, just as Clay comes out of his break, it's on him as soon as he puts his hands up. Great throw and catch for a first down. Those types of throws don't happen with Taylor here. Even when he was surrounded by Watkins, Woods, Goodwin, Clay, etc. Taylor has to see his man wide open before he throws it. Allen, while he does do that as well, has shown the ability to throw it on time and with anticipation. It's no doubt a skill he still needs to work on but just the fact that we've seen him do it on several occasions should bode well for his future. Just keep learning, keep rounding out his game, I think he'll be alright.

[DrDawkinstein]

12 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

?

 

all we heard this offseasin is sin is our passing game couldn’t get worse.  Well in a league where offense records are being set, we are barely over 100 yards passing!  

 

Wins are always nice but other Bills qb would be getting killed for this game.  This is Allen’s 3rd won in 2 years where he passed for under 100 yards.  Isn’t that why we got rid of Tyrod?  

 

 

A project rookie from a small school being equivalent to a 7-year vet at his ceiling would mean Beane absolutely NAILED the pick. Since it means we arent taking a step back and have no where to go but up from here.

 

So yeah, maybe right now, in his rookie year, Allen is Taylor. That's more of an insult to Taylor than a knock on Allen.

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

11 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

You realized our qb passed for 80 yard in a W?  He “led” a comeback where his coach won’t let him throw the ball past the line of scrimmage?

He didn't need to pass for more yards because the running game was working so well. Why is this generation so obsessed with stats? Stats don't tell all.  Allen also only had 19 attempts and a few crucial drops by the receivers. These aren't excuses, just facts.

 

FYI Marcus Mariota only passed for 129 yards + turned the ball over like 3 times and he's a player that's been in the league since 2014 so what's his excuse?

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

also to the kids credit regardless of how little the offense did yesterday it was allen who scored the only touchdown and then went on to lead the team down the field to be in range for haus money to be able to kick the winning field goal.

 

his first 4th qtr comeback for the win!

 

 

Edited October 8, 2018 by no name

[dabills26]

I'm sure it's been said in this thread cause I didn't read all the posts but Allen really needs some receivers. All his passes are not perfect. But early in the season he was getting the ball to receiver in tight windows and they drop the pass. KB, Clay, Foster. Only one who looked worth a damn was Zay Jones yet we seem to force the ball to Holmes and KB all the time.

 

Next year we better draft all offense or at least a WR, TE, and 1 or 2 o-line. If Croom could get more shots we might be able to go late on TE. Allen needs help because you can kind of see he is losing trust in certain receivers. I don't blame him.

[atlbillsfan1975]

4 hours ago, joesixpack said:

 

You haven't been here long have you?

 

No, he's not.

 

I have been here for ten years. Not forever but not a newbie. Most of us are pretty reasonable. As reasonable as passionate fans who spend productive work time on here can be. There are a few who push agendas. There are a few who just push buttons. I have learned to ask more questions and try to read things with as little emmotions as possible. It’s good practice. If I can do it here, I hope it will translate to other places. I care a lot about the dang Bills. Easy to get emotionally worked up.

[NFLBighits]

14 hours ago, Jpsredemption said:

He couldn't hold Taylors jock.

I think it's the other way around kid!?

[kirkwoodus13]

Quote

Could some one please compared Josh Allen first three games to EJ Manuel. Sorry but the win against Carolina in EJ first year was more impressive than anything Allen has done so far. Hopefully the Kid is allowed to play and grow through these experiences unlike EJ was afforded. However the errant throws, the running into sacks when there is no need to, I don't like his pocket presence at all. Especially compared to the other three rookies. So far ALLEN is a higher drafted ... WHITE version on EJ Manuel both should have not played a down in their first NFL SEASON. Bad management and coaching fail EJ just as much as his talent. Hopefully this don't happen to ALLEN.

 

[Boatdrinks]

2 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Interesting stat. A sub-82 yard passing day looks closer to a 50/50 win proposition than I would have thought. 

[BringBackOrton]

2 hours ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

He didn't need to pass for more yards because the running game was working so well. Why is this generation so obsessed with stats? Stats don't tell all.  Allen also only had 19 attempts and a few crucial drops by the receivers. These aren't excuses, just facts.

 

FYI Marcus Mariota only passed for 129 yards + turned the ball over like 3 times and he's a player that's been in the league since 2014 so what's his excuse?

Oh.  "Crucial drops" eh.

 

It sounds like you already gave Mariota his "excuse."

[Boatdrinks]

3 hours ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

I agree that he needs more talent around him, but no amount of talent is going to magically make Allen into an accurate passer.

This is fact. We will have to see what the offense looks like with added talent around Allen to get a true evaluation on him. However the addition of this WR talent won’t change his accuracy. He will be what he will be, and it may work. Or he may constantly miss open targets and flame out. Data is mixed thus far, and Allen’s deficiencies reading coverages and recognizing pressures compound the difficulty in evaluating him as a passer. 

[Homey D. Clown]

14 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

?

 

all we heard this offseasin is sin is our passing game couldn’t get worse.  Well in a league where offense records are being set, we are barely over 100 yards passing!  

 

Wins are always nice but other Bills qb would be getting killed for this game.  This is Allen’s 3rd won in 2 years where he passed for under 100 yards.  Isn’t that why we got rid of Tyrod?  

 

No, we got rid of Tyrod because he is a very limited passer.  Josh was a developmental passer that needed to be thrown into the starting role, nobody knows yet where his ceiling is.  To expect exponentially better from a rookie is just silly.

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[Doc]

11 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

 

It's called being a rookie and having lousy receivers, Hack.

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

7 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

It's called being a rookie and having lousy receivers, Hack.

 

absolutely, he sounds as ridiculous as the OP.

[dezertbill]

Tyrod is a 7 year vet who has hit his ceiling potential-wise.  Allen is a rookie with an inordinate amount of talent learning the pro QB game.

 

Huge difference.   Everyone is so caught up with stats it's crazy.  Here is a guy who led the team to a first drive TD (granted it began in Titans territory...but how many times in the Tyrod era would that have resulted in a FG?).  Also keep in mind that Titans hadn't allowed any first quarter points all year. 

 

Allen also led the team down the field in a game winning drive vs. a very tough defense.  He made the plays when he had too. There were too many times when TT didn't do that.

 

It's way to early to criticize Allen for not throwing the ball more, keeping in mind that his WR aren't anything to write home about.   Let the guy get comfortable with the offense.  and learn.  Eventually he will begin to click, and with the help of upgrading the WR core, this offense will be much better.

Edited October 8, 2018 by dezertbill

[26CornerBlitz]

23 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

It's called being a rookie and having lousy receivers, Hack.

 

It was an accurate description of what the game plan was.  Listen to the message and don't shoot the messenger because it is what it is as the Bills try to scratch out wins. 

[BringBackOrton]

37 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

So C.Biscuit is Rodak, right?  Can't you see the 40 year old Rodak telling the other Bills reporters that he dates 10s?

[Matt_In_NH]

So ball placement was ideal there?

[sleeby]

I love WNY but when it comes to QBs we seem to be just crabs in a barrel - pulling the new QB down into the barrel anytime he gets near the top.  We have a history of this and so a history of a long string of failed, young QBs to match.

 

JA looks like the best chance we've had in awhile.  Let's let him become himself without all the hate.  Meh, never happen though. . .too much bitterness around.  

Edited October 8, 2018 by sleeby

[papazoid]

so far Josh has more rushing TD's (3) than passing (2).

 

his poor accuracy, even on short throws is worrisome. most of his long passes are overthrown.

 

he's not even close to Tyrod...yet !!…….last year TT ranked around 15th in both passer rating and total QBR

 

Josh isn't even in the Top 32 for either.....not good !!

[GoBills808]

12 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

It was an accurate description of what the game plan was.  Listen to the message and don't shoot the messenger because it is what it is as the Bills try to scratch out wins. 

It was, but he framed it in terms that were a lot more far-reaching than required. Allen is going to have games this year where the Bills run a lot. It's not going to define his career, just the particular circumstances of this season and the offensive issues that necessitate it. Trying to make one game (or a bunch of them this year) out to be some sort of referendum on Allen by alluding to the Taylor years is sensational, not realistic journalism.