Would you rather have: Mahomes or both Allen & Tre?

[Matt_In_NH]

If I had to pick today and my life depended on it I am going Mahomes.  But the reality is there is not enough info out there yet.  Ask this question in three years and the answer will probably be clear.

Willing to be 100% of Chiefs fans would vot Mahomes.

[nucci]

On 9/23/2018 at 8:45 PM, Hebert19 said:

Mahomes is great.  But as with every andy Reid team this too will come to an end.  He has weapons and they make him look good.  

what does this mean? Our lives will come to an end as well.  Mahomes is playing great regardless of the weapons

[Formerly Allan in MD]

Not a viable poll without factoring in the strengths of the respective supporting casts, including offensive lines.

[John from Riverside]

1 hour ago, Formerly Allan in MD said:

Not a viable poll without factoring in the strengths of the respective supporting casts, including offensive lines.

Some ppl can’t see the nose in front of their ace to understand this

[BigDingus]

First off, this scenario is an easy pick for any non-biased NFL fan. Anyone saying they'd pass on Mahomes is a homer.

Second, if we didn't grab Allen, we'd have extra picks as well. So it should be -

A) Mahomes + 1st round pick in 2018, 2nd round pick in 2018 and another 2nd round pick in 2018

 

or

 

B) Josh Allen & Tre White

 

 

[John from Riverside]

8 hours ago, BringBackOrton said:

They didn’t have to trade Peters. So really they could have had Mahomes and Peters vs Allen White.

 

I’m not sure Chiefs fans are even talking about Josh Allen on their boards right now.

Why should they

they have their Qb leave it to bills fans to constantly looking at the other guys grass

[Luka]

If he doesn't come with Andy Reid then I'll go with Josh and Tre.

[stinky finger]

On 9/23/2018 at 9:52 PM, ganesh said:

Why?  Can't we call a spade a spade...Mahommes is breaking NFL records set by Peyton Manning..Give credit where it is due.

+1

 

Mahommes is on fire, obviously.

 

It's so much easier playing QB in 2018. It's getting easier by the week.

[mead107]

Why ask.  This is not wonderland.  

[Stank_Nasty]

10 hours ago, Chuck Wagon said:

 

 

With all due respect, it doesn't seem like you've watched the Chiefs or Mahomes at all.  The guy is throwing lasers all over the field, it's not just a stacked team, his arm has defenses scrambling and blowing coverages.  Watch the TD scramble / throw against KC, he might be the only QB in the NFL who can make that play.  The offense around him certainly helps, but to pretend the guy is just throwing screen passes to Tyreke Hill and watching him do all the work scream you are completely ignorant on the subject.

There isn’t one person on the bills that can go up into a crowd and make the catches hill is making for mahomes right now. I can think of 2 or 3 right off the top of my head that were for chunk yds thrown into double and triple coverage that hill made unreal adjustments to the ball on. One might even call the passes ill advised. 

 

That has nothing to do with a screen pass. So maybe let’s not claim ignorance amongst others so quickly. 

[Teddy KGB]

7 hours ago, Chuck Wagon said:

 

 

I'm not insulting you.  You just have no idea what you are talking about.

 

I’m watching the KC/SF replay right now and I gotta agree with you.   

 

Holy smokes Mahomes is amazing.     I wonder if John’s even seen Mahomes in action 

 

11 red zone trips.    11 touchdowns. 

 

Sammy Watkins for the score ☝?☝?

Edited September 27, 2018 by Teddy KGB

[VW82]

To BigDing

6 hours ago, BigDingus said:

First off, this scenario is an easy pick for any non-biased NFL fan. Anyone saying they'd pass on Mahomes is a homer.

Second, if we didn't grab Allen, we'd have extra picks as well. So it should be -

A) Mahomes + 1st round pick in 2018, 2nd round pick in 2018 and another 2nd round pick in 2018

 

or

 

B) Josh Allen & Tre White

 

 

 

Posted this in the other thread you started (same topic) but it immediately got locked, so I'm copy/pasting my response here:

 

So for starters...Obviously you take Mahomes over Allen though your equation is not quite right. No where are you accounting for the extra 2018 FRP that we got for Mahomes and used to trade up for Edmunds. It should be Allen + Tre + Edmunds vs. Mahomes + 2018 FRP + two 2018 SRPs + 2018 TRP. 

 

I think you're missing a lot of important context here. McD got hired in Jan 2017. The NFL and college season were done. All the draft intelligence was collected by Whaley's regime. Knowing what we know now, it seems pretty obvious those two men have drastically different ideas of how to put together a football team (i.e. one guy is a talent collector, the other a team builder). Buffalo trading their 2017 FRP for futures and selecting Tre, a cornerback (McD's area of expertise), makes tons of sense under that lens. Clearly McD would prefer to have more options in a future draft where he had his people in place all year, and a better understanding of the strengths and weaknesses of the roster. So if anything, it's a little unlucky Mahomes entered the draft when he did.   

 

The other part we're forgetting is Andy Reid. He has a history of making QBs look fantastic. Maybe Mahomes would have been good anywhere, but he definitely has a much better shot at being great studying under Reid for a year and then starting on one of the best offensive rosters in the league, coached by one of the best offensive minds.

 

McD is a defensive coach. We're going to judge him based on wins and losses but it isn't surprising he came in wanting to fix the defense first, so we could at least be competitive. That ball hawking D also carried us to our first playoff berth in 437 years, so there's that.

 

I can't defend all his moves, and in isolation Allen over Mahomes looks bad, but there was sound reasoning behind what McD did IMO (even if the execution was perhaps a little off). Point is there's reason to trust what he's building. And yes, they are building something with Allen, Tre, and Edmunds.

Edited September 27, 2018 by VW82

[C.Biscuit97]

What would this poll look like if we had Mahomes? ?

 

This is also kinda of insane at this point.  But if Mahomes is a qb in the Peyton mold, it’s going to be really hard to win this trade.   But it’s so early at this point.

[Boatdrinks]

4 hours ago, mead107 said:

Why ask.  This is not wonderland.  

Because it’s a legitimate question, not some pie-in-the-sky scenario. The Bills made a decision to pass on drafting Mahomes. It’s the kind of choice that can define a franchise for a decade or more. 

[John from Riverside]

15 hours ago, Bangarang said:

 

OK...I had to laugh at that...

[Zerovoltz]

I would implore anyone here to consider the following:

 

Alex Smith had ALL the SAME WEAPONS and 4 out of the 5 same linemen...the lone exception being Sammy Watkins.  Watkins is nice piece to have, but I think if anyone can understand this, it's Bills fans....Watkins isn't the reason for the offensive explosion we are having.

 

Smith has had 5 years of Reid, plus all the same weapons and he was the WORST RED ZONE QB in the NFL the last two years...and last year alone....44% completion pct to THESE GUYS?  .....Alex Smith is a good QB, and he wasn't even close to putting up these kind of numbers with this coach and these weapons.....We'd be 1-2 at best with Smith right now.

 

Mahomes IS the reason this is happening.....he's the difference between this year and last.....and if he was in Buffalo right now, you'd be 2-1.  

 

Lastly....I watch the plays he makes....sure there are a good number with guys wide open....but watch Mahomes as he turns his entire body, and head to the right, and the safety runs over that way, then Mahomes, in and instant, seemingly without even looking, snaps back to the middle and rips a dart to Kelce...who IS now wide open down the seam because Mahomes literally willed the safety away.  Call me a homer, that's fine....but this isn't flash in the pan, jump ball garbage getting caught all game long (Like Watson last year)  ....He's on another level. 

[MJS]

Eh, Mahomes will get figured out and then he'll start having rough games.

 

Watson looked like a superstar in year one. So did Prescott. But they got figured out and now both of them are going to have to work hard to get better. I foresee the same for Mahomes.

 

So I'll take Allen and our shutdown corner.

[Hebert19]

On 9/26/2018 at 10:59 AM, nucci said:

what does this mean? Our lives will come to an end as well.  Mahomes is playing great regardless of the weapons

It means that alex smith and the chiefs looked like hall of Famers thru 5 games last year too.  It means philly looks unbeatable early when he was there too.  It means that teams adjust and his teams always decline toward middle and late in season.  It means mahomes will suffer the same fate as alex smith McCabe and vick... a late season fade. 

[Zerovoltz]

 

17 hours ago, MJS said:

Eh, Mahomes will get figured out and then he'll start having rough games.

 

Watson looked like a superstar in year one. So did Prescott. But they got figured out and now both of them are going to have to work hard to get better. I foresee the same for Mahomes.

 

So I'll take Allen and our shutdown corner.

 

.....so Allen, who has played only a couple fewer games than Mahomes, isn't subject to getting tape and teams adjusting?  

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, Zerovotlz said:

 

 

.....so Allen, who has played only a couple fewer games than Mahomes, isn't subject to getting tape and teams adjusting?  

Q:

 

Why, as a chiefs fan, are you here?

 

 

[HOUSE]

I would rather have Jim Kelly and Bruce Smith over Dan Marino too

[MJS]

23 minutes ago, Zerovotlz said:

 

 

.....so Allen, who has played only a couple fewer games than Mahomes, isn't subject to getting tape and teams adjusting?  

 

I never said that. In fact, I know the opposite will happen.

[Troll Toll]

There’s no reason Allen can’t be better than Mahomes. So I’ll go Allen and Tre. Mahomes has had it easy up to this point. Let’s see how he does when he loses some weapons and protection. Allen is looking good with no help and a relatively inexperienced NFL HC and OC. Get him some help and look out!

[Zerovoltz]

2 hours ago, joesixpack said:

Q:

 

Why, as a chiefs fan, are you here?

 

 

 

I've addressed this in other threads....I came here because the Bills traded out of 10 and we moved up for Mahomes.  I am fascinated by the dynmaic of that trade and it's even more interesting since the Bills opted to participate in the QB class of 2018 instead.  I am SURE that I rub some folks here the wrong way at times....but this is a really fun board with smart fans.  I enjoy reading and posting here even though I am a Chiefs fan.  (local boards are WAY WAY too homeristic)  I am not against Allen....I have stated that I don't think he will succeed, but I am rooting for him to prove me, the metrics people and many scouts wrong...he's a great story, and I don't hate the Bills at all....I hate the Broncos and Raiders.  Anyhow...good smart fans...lots of inteligent discussion.  

[BringBackOrton]

2 hours ago, Zerovotlz said:

 

 

.....so Allen, who has played only a couple fewer games than Mahomes, isn't subject to getting tape and teams adjusting?  

That logic is going hurt some posters' brains round here, I'm afraid.

 

2 hours ago, joesixpack said:

Q:

 

Why, as a chiefs fan, are you here?

 

 

Exhibit A.

[Gunsgoodtime]

16 minutes ago, Zerovotlz said:

 

I've addressed this in other threads....I came here because the Bills traded out of 10 and we moved up for Mahomes.  I am fascinated by the dynmaic of that trade and it's even more interesting since the Bills opted to participate in the QB class of 2018 instead.  I am SURE that I rub some folks here the wrong way at times....but this is a really fun board with smart fans.  I enjoy reading and posting here even though I am a Chiefs fan.  (local boards are WAY WAY too homeristic)  I am not against Allen....I have stated that I don't think he will succeed, but I am rooting for him to prove me, the metrics people and many scouts wrong...he's a great story, and I don't hate the Bills at all....I hate the Broncos and Raiders.  Anyhow...good smart fans...lots of inteligent discussion.  

 

A lot of what you are getting is because Tre has turned out to be a shutdown corner, and Allen which has a good chance to be as good as Mahomes, and even if he wont quite as good, we also still have the shutdown corner.

[John from Riverside]

3 hours ago, Zerovotlz said:

 

 

.....so Allen, who has played only a couple fewer games than Mahomes, isn't subject to getting tape and teams adjusting?  

He absolutely is.....

 

But this really is not the question prsented.....the question was

 

Mahommes

 

or

 

Josh Allen AND TRE

 

In my book....if this was just presented as Mohommes vs Josh Allen.....it would be a easy Mahommes why?  Because regardless of his nice set up he is still making the throws and playing well

 

I say Josh Allen because he shows that potential....but we also got a shut down corner (and that is very important) out of the deal.....

 

 

 

 

[papazoid]

mahomes cost KC two 1st's

 

tre is a home run at #27 (one 1st)

 

allen cost two  2nd's (tremendous value picks)  , a 1st (#12) and cordy glenn (swap #21 for #12)

 

your comparing KC two 1st's (mahomes) vs Bills two 1st's, two 2nd's and a starting LT (not exactly fair)

 

mahomes and tre are studs. allen is an unknown for the moment.

 

QB's trump DB's any day.  all around KC currently has the edge. trending towards equal

[PIZ]

Kelce, Hill, Watkins, Reid?

 

Clay, Benjamin, Jones, Daboll?

 

Chief OL vs Bills OL

 

Big difference. Swap QBs and see if Mahomes still looks the same.

 

[17 Josh Allen]

How could this be a pre Super bowl match. According some on here ( me Billsareback and now i’m 17 Josh Allen ) and Jeff’s magic tried to tell you about how great Mahomes was. But we were Ridiculed and run off two bills drive. We were told that Mahomes was horrible and not even a 4th round pick. He was the worst of the worst. You were glad the Bills traded out of the 10th pick. Me and Jeffsmagic warned you that Andy Reid knew what he was doing. He saw in Mahomes what me and Jeffs magic did. We both predicted  the Chiefs would become the dominate team in the AFC and would be playing in multiple SuperBowls. 

Now imagine today I log on and people on this board calling the Chiefs the odds on favorites to represent the AFC in the Super bowl. Yes I’m calling all you Hypocrites out. You have gone into hiding. Stand up and take your medicine. 

[Teddy KGB]

Rip Beane 

[Matt_In_NH]

OK, so both QB's had their worst statistical day of the year this past week.  Mahomes through only through for 300 and one TD which is pretty bad for him.

 

Seriously, the 81.13% of people who picked Josh Allen and Tre White have issues.....I get that is the option we wnat to work out in the big picture but based on what you know now how could you not pick Mahomes.

On 10/1/2018 at 7:56 AM, Teddy KGB said:

Rip Beane 

Beane did not trade the pick to KC, Whaley and McDermott did.

On 9/28/2018 at 4:40 AM, papazoid said:

mahomes cost KC two 1st's

 

tre is a home run at #27 (one 1st)

 

allen cost two  2nd's (tremendous value picks)  , a 1st (#12) and cordy glenn (swap #21 for #12)

  

your comparing KC two 1st's (mahomes) vs Bills two 1st's, two 2nd's and a starting LT (not exactly fair)

  

mahomes and tre are studs. allen is an unknown for the moment.

  

QB's trump DB's any day.  all around KC currently has the edge. trending towards equal

LOL what do you smoke?

Edited October 2, 2018 by mattynh

[Big Gun]

On 9/28/2018 at 6:27 AM, PIZ said:

Kelce, Hill, Watkins, Reid?

 

Clay, Benjamin, Jones, Daboll?

 

Chief OL vs Bills OL

 

Big difference. Swap QBs and see if Mahomes still looks the same.

 

Or Mahomes, Clay, Watkins, Woods, Hogan, Goodwin, Glenn, and I believe Richie would still be here if McBean showed any indications of winning. 

[HeHateMe]

The Mahomes trade out will hurt us for a long time..  He was making plays last night when there was nothing to be made.  It was incredible.  

[jrober38]

Mahomes and it's not close.

 

Tre White is a fine corner back, but he's still just a corner back.

 

Josh Allen is a lottery ticket who probably won't work out.

 

This is a no brainer. 

[Billsfanatic8989]

On 9/27/2018 at 11:28 PM, Zerovotlz said:

 

I've addressed this in other threads....I came here because the Bills traded out of 10 and we moved up for Mahomes.  I am fascinated by the dynmaic of that trade and it's even more interesting since the Bills opted to participate in the QB class of 2018 instead.  I am SURE that I rub some folks here the wrong way at times....but this is a really fun board with smart fans.  I enjoy reading and posting here even though I am a Chiefs fan.  (local boards are WAY WAY too homeristic)  I am not against Allen....I have stated that I don't think he will succeed, but I am rooting for him to prove me, the metrics people and many scouts wrong...he's a great story, and I don't hate the Bills at all....I hate the Broncos and Raiders.  Anyhow...good smart fans...lots of inteligent discussion.  

As a Chiefs fan, are you impressed by their 4-0 start? Or, do you want to see them do it in December and January before crowning this season an achievement? We've seen this movie before from the Chiefs.

[Like A Mofo]

On 9/27/2018 at 4:48 PM, joesixpack said:

Q:

 

Why, as a chiefs fan, are you here?

 

 

 

 

Because he has cravings to push our buttons and give himself satisfaction.  He should go to Chiefs Planet.

[C.Biscuit97]

Haha, this poll.  I bet there was a poll back in the day where fans would rather have JP than Rodgers (I probably would have picked JP back then!).

 

That was a bad game for Mahomes and it would have been one of the best Bills qb games of the last 20 years.  I do love that people love pointing out the supporting cast like the current regime isn’t responsible for the lack of talent.  But I guess let’s just blindly trust the process and hope they stop being awful at offensive personnel moves!