Would you rather have: Mahomes or both Allen & Tre?

[Rico]

Need to see a whole lot more of both, but right now it just seems to me that Mahomes may have the weapons but Allen has the intangibles. Bills D played out of their minds yesterday, but I was most impressed by how Allen put the team on his back.

[PolishPrince]

25 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Yeah but he also had a couple fumbles and a pretty bad underthrow to Foster that should have been picked.

 

It was fun to watch him have his first good game but so far he's no Ryan Fitzpatrick.?

 

Whole lotta' big numbers getting put up by QB's around the league.

The underthrow is the only bad throw Allen made in that game... he had ONE fumble (a dangerous one we are lucky to get back).

The other two "fumbles" were a bad snap exchange (happens to every QB occasionally) and the other one should have 100% been ruled an incomplete pass, the refs completely botched that

[Soda Popinski]

27 minutes ago, Ramza86 said:

Id take Mahomes in a second if you told me he could replicate his game with this roster.

 

But its really hard to say because they have much more offensive talent and a system that works for him. May not be the case here.

Daboll is no Andy Reid.   

[TheElectricCompany]

4 minutes ago, Rico said:

Need to see a whole lot more of both, but right now it just seems to me that Mahomes may have the weapons but Allen has the intangibles. Bills D played out of their minds yesterday, but I was most impressed by how Allen put the team on his back.

 

There is zero evidence to suggest that Mahomes doesn't have tremendous "intangibles". 

 

[BringBackOrton]

4 minutes ago, TheElectricCompany said:

 

There is zero evidence to suggest that Mahomes doesn't have tremendous "intangibles". 

 

Only on TBD is it a no-brainer to take a QB with 4 TD's and 2 INT's in 2.5 games over a QB with 13 TD's and zero INT's in 3 games.

 

A "Would you rather have Brady or Allen playing for your team in the Super Bowl" poll would probably be 70-30 Allen right now.

Edited September 24, 2018 by BringBackOrton

[QCity]

The only thing that's clear is that a lot of people here haven't watched KC play yet this year, because if they had, they wouldn't be saying it's all "weapons" and "Reid." This kid looks special and his talent jumps off the screen. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

25 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

That's what I thought lol.  Allen has one good game and he's worth way more than a QB who is currently breaking records on 3 incredible games.

 

No offense, but you're a moron if you think that Mahomes would be having that kind of start here.

 

Get a grip.

 

[HappyDays]

12 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

Only on TBD is it a no-brainer to take a QB with 4 TD's and 2 INT's in 2.5 games over a QB with 13 TD's and zero INT's in 3 games.

 

No one has said that. It's just that we don't know for sure. Mahomes is in his 2nd year playing with one of the best supporting casts in the NFL and a well established offensive system that made Alex Smith look like the MVP for several weeks. I'm not trying to take anything away from what Mahomes has done, he's been very impressive, but it's not even a remotely comparable situation to the one Allen is in right now. This question will have a better answer next year. I'll tell you what though the Chiefs wish they had a shutdown corner because eventually that awful defense is going to catch up to them.

[Soda Popinski]

1 minute ago, joesixpack said:

 

No offense, but you're a moron if you think that Mahomes would be having that kind of start here.

 

Get a grip.

 

I can see him now circa 2017 handing the ball off to Shady in Dennison's "we'll help you get your zzzsssss" commercial brand of sleep aid offense.  

[HappyDays]

4 minutes ago, QCity said:

The only thing that's clear is that a lot of people here haven't watched KC play yet this year, because if they had, they wouldn't be saying it's all "weapons" and "Reid." This kid looks special and his talent jumps off the screen. 

 

I've watched them play plenty. The system is scheming people open and several of his TDs have been checkdowns to Hunt that he took into the endzone on his pure talent alone. Theres nothing wrong with that, that is how modern NFL offenses are built to succeed, but let's not pretend if he was here right now he'd be scoring 3 TDs a game, let alone if he was still a rookie.

[Man with No Name]

I picked our guys, and a lot of it has to do with Allen being such a natural leader. He is hard not to fall in love with, even if you were pissed when the pick was made. I am throwing logic out the window on this one and going with the home team. I 100% understand that might not be the best choice, but I'm not going to overanalyze it. The two qbs are much closer than the numbers are showing right now. how close, we will not know for a couple years. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, Man with No Name said:

I picked our guys, and a lot of it has to do with Allen being such a natural leader. He is hard not to fall in love with, even if you were pissed when the pick was made. I am throwing logic out the window on this one and going with the home team. I 100% understand that might not be the best choice, but I'm not going to overanalyze it. The two qbs are much closer than the numbers are showing right now. how close, we will not know for a couple years. 

 

Some people here have a hard time letting go and appreciating what we have. They think they're too smart to do that.

 

Unfortunately, they're also too stupid to realize they're not smart.

 

[Zerovoltz]

2 hours ago, Yav said:

Mahomes will be just as bad as Dak - eventually he will figure out he actually sucks and the Chefs will realize they really aren't all that great while Reid screws up. 

 

Who has KC actually beat? 

Chargers, Steelers and 49ers big deal. 

they gave up 28 to the chargers, 37 to the steelers and 27 to the 49ers.

 

Lol!  Yeah, beating the Chargers and Steelers on the road to open the season is as creme puff as it gets in the NFL.

 

55 minutes ago, Ramza86 said:

Id take Mahomes in a second if you told me he could replicate his game with this roster.

 

But its really hard to say because they have much more offensive talent and a system that works for him. May not be the case here.

 

He wouldn’t have 13 red and 0 I think, but he would be playing at a high level.  Your line would look better.  Mahomes gets the ball out quick.  

 

Some other points.  

 

None of the games have been shootouts.  The Chiefs have built huge leads in all 3 and then kind of let off the gas.  The other team gets a bunch of garbage yards trying to come back.  The scores in all three are not indicative of how the games went.  They aren’t close.

 

some said Allen’s WR have dropped passes that would make his stats better.  Umm....that’s happened in KC as well.

 

some suggest that Mahomes has an advantage sitting for a year.  I’d contend KC wasted his rookie year having him sit. He’s looked as good as he his now from the git go.  

 

A few few of you clearly have SEEN him play while others have seen the box score.  Mahomes is a cyborg.  Reads the field in a hurry and gets the balm out quick.  Makes throws into tight spots, keeps eyes always downfield.  He’s special.  If you put Alex Smith back out there, he wouldn’t have 13 TD and 0 ints.  Smith had all but one of the same guys last year and couldn’t perform anywhere close to this.  

 

Mahomes is is going to break the NFL TD record this year.

 

im not telling you to be sad about it. Maybe later it could be that way but because you took Allen, you have that prospect and hope.  Mahomes isn’t the comparison to make right now.  A better measurement should be ALLEN vs Keenum.  ALLEN bs Rosen and maybe Allen Trubisky.  The first two are scenarios the Bills could have had this year.  The Trubisky scenario is more appropriate because that is going to be the Bills path.  Drafted a QB, then the following year, spend money on upgrades.  These all are better benchmarks.

 

 

[dave mcbride]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Yeah but he also had a couple fumbles and a pretty bad underthrow to Foster that should have been picked.

 

It was fun to watch him have his first good game but so far he's no Ryan Fitzpatrick.?

 

Whole lotta' big numbers getting put up by QB's around the league.

the underthrow was one of heave-it-far-and-it-gets-picked-it's-a-punt play. Kurt Warner racked up a ton of harmless INTs on such throws, which are less than 50/50 propositions anyway.

[Rico]

1 hour ago, TheElectricCompany said:

 

There is zero evidence to suggest that Mahomes doesn't have tremendous "intangibles". 

 

Since I haven’t watched a Chiefs game yet, there is zero evidence for me to say he does.

[Victory Formation]

1 hour ago, TheElectricCompany said:

 

It's not 3 great games. It's 3 absolutely mind blowing games. 

He is in uncharted territory and outpacing what Manning and Brees did in their best seasons. 

Of course he'll slow down. He's not going to throw 70 TDs this year, but he might throw 40+. Insane for a second year player.

I find it hysterical that this board is so quick to diminish Mahomes accomplishments while propping up Allen for one game where he played Cpt Checkdown.

 

Thanks, I'm glad I skipped the first 4 pages and directly read this comment, I feel better now. Thanks.

[reddogblitz]

If I take Mahomes do I also get Kelse, Hi!l, and Reid too?  

[BringBackOrton]

57 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

No one has said that. It's just that we don't know for sure. Mahomes is in his 2nd year playing with one of the best supporting casts in the NFL and a well established offensive system that made Alex Smith look like the MVP for several weeks. I'm not trying to take anything away from what Mahomes has done, he's been very impressive, but it's not even a remotely comparable situation to the one Allen is in right now. This question will have a better answer next year. I'll tell you what though the Chiefs wish they had a shutdown corner because eventually that awful defense is going to catch up to them.

Look at the poll, bro.

59 minutes ago, joesixpack said:

 

No offense, but you're a moron if you think that Mahomes would be having that kind of start here.

 

Get a grip.

 

And you're a moron if you think Josh Allen would be breaking offensive records set by Hall of Famers in KC right now.

 

Funny how that works.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, BringBackOrton said:

And you're a moron if you think Josh Allen would be breaking offensive records set by Hall of Famers in KC right now.

 

 

You'll pardon me if I have given ZERO effs about your thinking.

 

You're wrong about that as well, by the way.

 

 

[TheElectricCompany]

16 minutes ago, Rico said:

Since I haven’t watched a Chiefs game yet, there is zero evidence for me to say he does.

 

By all accounts, he has the confidence and swagger that you want from a QB. 

If his teammates had concerns, the 13 TDs might have changed their mind. 

 

Edited September 24, 2018 by TheElectricCompany

[BringBackOrton]

6 minutes ago, joesixpack said:

 

You'll pardon me if I have given ZERO effs about your thinking.

 

You're wrong about that as well, by the way.

 

 

HAHAHA WHAT!

 

You think that Josh Allen would be breaking Manning's records in KC?

 

Whose man is this?

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

Bears fans will choose Mahomes in a heartbeat over Trubisky. If we beat the Bears the media and fans in Chicago will destroy Trubiski.

[TheElectricCompany]

9 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

HAHAHA WHAT!

 

You think that Josh Allen would be breaking Manning's records in KC?

 

We can't prove it either way.  It's an impossible scenario to replicate. 

This is like the old "Sammy vs OBJ" threads from BBMB, creating fantasyland "what if's?" for each player that can never be tested. 

All I know is this....Mahomes success is so incredible because it has never been done before. 

 

Edited September 24, 2018 by TheElectricCompany

[John from Riverside]

2 hours ago, BringBackOrton said:

 

You call that well covered?  He has like 5 steps on the guy.

[BringBackOrton]

Just now, John from Riverside said:

You call that well covered?  He has like 5 steps on the guy.

That's a perfect throw in between two defenders to hit a FB in stride.

 

He had just enough under it to clear the defender's hand at the apex of his jump.

 

That's a gorgeous ball that 90% of QB's miss.

[Jauronimo]

21 hours ago, aceman_16 said:

The problem is that isn't exactly the formula. You need to ADD all the players we may have obtained from the trades to get Allen on the Mahomes side.

At the very least you need to consider all the players that were traded in order to get the draft capital which was all used to select Allen.

[John from Riverside]

Just now, BringBackOrton said:

That's a perfect throw in between two defenders to hit a FB in stride.

 

He had just enough under it to clear the defender's hand at the apex of his jump.

 

That's a gorgeous ball that 90% of QB's miss.

It might be a good throw....but the guy is NOT well covered.

 

Am I supposed to kiss his ass because he dropped a dime on a guy that had 5 yards of space a drop in the bucket pass?

 

 

[BringBackOrton]

Just now, John from Riverside said:

It might be a good throw....but the guy is NOT well covered.

 

Am I supposed to kiss his ass because he dropped a dime on a guy that had 5 yards of space a drop in the bucket pass?

 

 

He has videos of his games, John.

 

 

[John from Riverside]

4 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

He has videos of his games, John.

 

 

Tyreke Hill and Kelce would make Josh Allen look like a super star

 

Imagine Mahommes throwing to our junk

[BringBackOrton]

1 minute ago, John from Riverside said:

Tyreke Hill and Kelce would make Josh Allen look like a super star

 

Imagine Mahommes throwing to our junk

Mahomes isn't playing like a super star John.  He's playing like a god.

[Augie]

Before yesterday I would have had a harder time answering that question, but I was very pleasantly surprised. Shocking, I know! Keep it up Josh! Tre is a stud too, so it’s TWO key positions. 

 

As for the cost of each player, I’m just answering the question asked. It’s too complicated and convoluted to go much deeper than that.  You can get into all sorts of twisted arguments there, and not really get anywhere solid. 

 

Time will tell. 

 

One thing is for SURE, Allen doesn’t have the weapons Mahommes has, so imagine if they traded place. 

Edited September 24, 2018 by Augie

[Rico]

1 hour ago, TheElectricCompany said:

 

By all accounts, he has the confidence and swagger that you want from a QB. 

If his teammates had concerns, the 13 TDs might have changed their mind. 

 

What's also true though is that stats are for losers. I'm more impressed by the 3-0 start. I will reserve further judgment though until I have a chance to see a Chiefs game,  they are at the Broncos next Monday night. I'm hoping for as few close-ups of his mug as possible, since it's not Halloween yet.

[TheElectricCompany]

9 minutes ago, Rico said:

What's also true though is that stats are for losers. 

 

Of course they are, especially if you want talk about "Stats" and "Josh Allen" together. 

Never mind that two of the most analytics heavy teams just played in the Super Bowl. 

Edited September 24, 2018 by TheElectricCompany

[ctk232]

23 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

So...today, would you rather have Mahomes or the combo of Allen and Tre?  Not speculating on what we could or couldn't have drafted...just focusing on these 3 guys since its all we know.  Mahomes or both Allen and Tre?

Also have to realize, Mahomes would not have been this successful if we had drafted him. What you're seeing is the result of more than just his singular development. Exactly how much of it is the team and coaches around him, versus just his performance is still difficult to discern. But a lot of what we're seeing these past two weeks has more to do with his weapons and Reid than anything else, imho.

 

Looking back, he would not be the QB we are seeing had we drafted him and "developed" him for a year.

Edited September 24, 2018 by ctk232

[Billsfanatic8989]

22 hours ago, Hebert19 said:

Mahomes is great.  But as with every andy Reid team this too will come to an end.  He has weapons and they make him look good.  

This. We've seen these hot starts by KC before. Eventually, they'll cool down in a big way. With respect to Mahomes, let's see what he does agains better defenses and when coordinators have more tape.

 

In a nutshell, I don't believe in them. I don't see them as a serious SB threat.

[swnybillsfan]

i voted for our guys, because, well...they are our guys. i like mohommes a lot. but tre white is a great kid and a great corner. and josh allen is providing a whole lotta holy $#!! moments. so i am going to trust the process and go with our guys. you like that! you like that! y'all like that! 

[Bing Bong]

I'd rather be the Chiefs. No telling how Mahomes would have fared here, but he's in the MVP race for sure.. as is Fitz lol

57 minutes ago, Billsfanatic8989 said:

This. We've seen these hot starts by KC before. Eventually, they'll cool down in a big way. With respect to Mahomes, let's see what he does agains better defenses and when coordinators have more tape.

 

In a nutshell, I don't believe in them. I don't see them as a serious SB threat.

They've never had close to this offense. Last time Andy Reid had these kind of weapons to play with they was his TO Eagles. They got off to a hot start with Dwayne Bowe, and Alex Smith never recording a WR TD. this is a different animal

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

No one knows what either QB is going to be in 5-10 years. One has played 4 games and the other 2 1/2 games. Very little film and time for teams to come up with a game plan to play against. First thing I would do against KC is make the running game beat me, take away the big plays to see if Mahomes gets impatient and starts forcing the ball. I'll take the side with Tre as he's a proven lock down corner already. Besides I absolutely love the fire and heart Allen brings. Been waiting to see this in our QB since the mid-90s.

[Billsfanatic8989]

27 minutes ago, PetermanThrew5Picks said:

I'd rather be the Chiefs. No telling how Mahomes would have fared here, but he's in the MVP race for sure.. as is Fitz lol

They've never had close to this offense. Last time Andy Reid had these kind of weapons to play with they was his TO Eagles. They got off to a hot start with Dwayne Bowe, and Alex Smith never recording a WR TD. this is a different animal

He does look to be better than check down Alex Smith. He has a cannon for an arm too. I'd take Mahomes over our QB. Its not close. Lets see what he does against bettrr defenses.

 

As for KC, they need to play this way in December & January or its all for not. I'm just not sold on them being sb contenders.

Edited September 25, 2018 by Billsfanatic8989

[oldmanfan]

Two good players vs. one.  Easy call.  Give me the two.