McBeane's way of rebuilding makes no sense

[Laughing Coffin]

Some of us here make it sound like we were lush with talent all over the field in 2016. 

 

But the fact of the matter is, aside from Beane dumping a few players, this team was already garbage heading into 2017.

Dareus / Darby I agree with those 2 players definitely. We could have kept Dareus and dealt with a lot less dead cap situation after next year, we are eating his cap space anyways still and we could have had him on the field for the same price we're paying not to have him here, and he would have likely kept our interior DL respectable until then. As far as our CB2 position, it's in absolute shambles, so the Darby deal was not good in my opinion either.

Maybe not resigning Robert Woods/Marquise Goodwin, but those were decisions made by Whaley/McDermott. Can't blame them on Goodwin, he was always a tad banged up, just got hurt again after a promising 2017 campaign where he came out relatively unscathed. The best ability is availability, after all. Robert Woods seemed like a "process" guy I'm surprised we didn't throw 7 mil his way per year. Whenever he was listed as questionable on the IR he was likely going to be out there on the field, seemed like a guy who wanted to just play football

So unless I'm missing anyone from the 2016 Bills, our "roster of talent" equates to 2-3 guys (4 if you want to count Sammy, who's done nothing to warrant getting 16 mil a year so far) that we should have kept in their respectful spots, and built around them instead of creating holes that we still haven't filled. Not to mention we had 2 starting OL retire/go mental.

Tyrod masked our OL issues a lot more than most give him credit for, this team did not belong at 9-7 last year, especially our team the 2nd half of the year, soon as we dealt Dareus we started to get GASHED in the run game.  It was glaringly obvious how important he was at clogging the middle. If we would have played to our roster's talent on paper, our team likely was a 5-11 6-10 team that would have been lush with picks in this most recent draft.  We would have been able to sit at our position and drafted Allen, keeping the rest of our day 2 picks.

[Buftex]

I am not a Beane/McDermot hater, but I think the roster they inherited was much better than what we have now.  I realize, this is a work in progress, and I am hopeful they build something better than what they are trying to replace...but they aren't there yet.  In my opinion, Rex Ryan and his coaching staff were the biggest obstacle to the Bills success.

[Laughing Coffin]

2 minutes ago, Buftex said:

I am not a Beane/McDermot hater, but I think the roster they inherited was much better than what we have now.  I realize, this is a work in progress, and I am hopeful they build something better than what they are trying to replace...but they aren't there yet.  In my opinion, Rex Ryan and his coaching staff were the biggest obstacle to the Bills success.

 

There's turnover for every roster every NFL season.  We were 3 years younger in 2015-2016, we had Lorenzo Alexander in a scheme where he had a great year, now he's an outlier.  When there's consistent holes to fill each season, and our GM Doug Whaley was unable to get quality players to help with the natural turnover rate, a team's roster will of course degrade.

[Virgil]

Robert Woods should have been resigned.  His contract is a bargain and he’s really shown what he can do with a QB. 

 

Dareus I’m torn on.  He wasn’t motivated and didn’t fit the process. But isn’t that a coaches job to motivate and reach players. 

 

Darby makes no sense to me still.  Especially with our current DB situation and the style we run. 

 

Nothing could be done about the O-Line situation.  There weren’t any FA’s and we filled other positions of need with picks.  It sucks and was unexpected. 

 

The money we spent on Murphy and Star is the biggest question for me.  If we don’t get a pass rush going or plug the run, we just wasted 20 mil. 

[Laughing Coffin]

1 minute ago, Virgil said:

Robert Woods should have been resigned.  His contract is a bargain and he’s really shown what he can do with a QB. 

 

Dareus I’m torn on.  He wasn’t motivated and didn’t fit the process. But isn’t that a coaches job to motivate and reach players. 

 

Darby makes no sense to me still.  Especially with our current DB situation and the style we run. 

 

Nothing could be done about the O-Line situation.  There weren’t any FA’s and we filled other positions of need with picks.  It sucks and was unexpected. 

 

The money we spent on Murphy and Star is the biggest question for me.  If we don’t get a pass rush going or plug the run, we just wasted 20 mil. 

 

 

Yes Star is/will be proven as an awful use of 50 mil over 5 years. And we're essentially stuck with him through 2020, where then we can dump him with only a 5 mil dead cap hit.  If we were to dump him in 2019, he'd cost nearly 8 mil in dead cap, and with his salary being a bit over 10 mil that year, it just makes sense to keep him even if he's rotational depth.  What a nightmare.

 

Murphy's contract is much more friendly, and we can dump him after this season for a measly 3.5 mil dead cap hit, or the year after for a 1.75 mil cap hit.  He was coming off a strong 2016 campaign and unfortunately got hurt last year before the season, it was a calculated gamble that I don't hate.  I'd actually like to see us do something similar with CB Jason Verrett from the chargers, who has been snakebit by back to back year ending injuries (achilles and ACL).  I'd bring him in on a similar Trent Murphy deal situation.

[apuszczalowski]

They had much more "talent" on the roster when they took over

 

They now have much more "potential talent"

[26CornerBlitz]

McBeane 1

[mead107]

10 hours ago, Jerry Jabber said:

Seems McBeane is intent on gutting this roster of players from the Whaley regime and doing a full blown rebuild. I have no problems with doing a rebuild, but the way they are doing it makes absolutely no sense. Moving up and wasting draft picks on two players in the first round this past year was not a smart move. If the Bills are going to be at the top of the draft in 2019, then they could have drafted their QB of the future then instead of what they gave up for Allen. It's too early to tell if Allen and Edmunds will pan out. Both guys have the physical size and traits to be very successful. I am glad that McBeane is trying to address the QB position, because it's been neglected for way too long. Maybe McBeane liked the QB's in this draft class better than the 2019 draft class...who knows. I just think it's not a smart move to use up all these picks when there are so many holes to fill on the team. O-linemen take time to develop, so I think it would have been good for the Bills to use some of this draft capital and address the O-line early. I think building up the lines on both side of the ball first should be a teams priority.

 

It seems McBeane's FA pick ups/trades have been more misses than hits. Now, if these players McBeane are signing are just "stop-gap" players, then that's one thing, but if they're being counted on to be impact players, then McBeane has really screwed up. Vontae Davis, Star Lotulelei, Trent Murphy, Kelvin Benjamin, Corey Coleman, Jordan Matthews...not an impressive list of players. Seems McBeane was hoping somebody on the D-line would be free to get to the QB with Lotulelei clogging up the middle, but so far this preseason and in Week 1, it hasn't come to fruition. If Lotulelei doesn't pan out, that could be more dead cap money if he gets cut or traded. 

So you have all the answers?  What team do you work for ??????? 

[Doc Brown]

It's tough to evaluate receivers when you have Tyrod Taylor throwing them the ball as we can see with the play of Woods and Goodwin since leaving.  

[34-78-83]

1 hour ago, Heitz said:

 

Best article I've seen on what the Bills are trying to build - not everyone thinks it makes no sense...

 

Very few actually think it makes no sense. It's just a loud vocal minority. Of course it makes sense. It will still depend on a few things that are somewhat out of their control, like Allen living up to his potential.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

I’m not buying McDermott’s sob story about inheriting a bad team that needed new culture. 

 

Hey Beane, it’s 2018, might want to do better than Chris Ivory and Jeremy Kerley.

[apuszczalowski]

their problem is they have decided to take a risky approach that involves alot of time and patience and may or may not work out.

In todays era of sports, most GMs/coaches don't get that luxury of time to institute long/slow rebuild plans.

Especially if some results are not seen quickly or progress is not being made soon.

Some may have their owners support with a long/slow approach, but if things don't start getting better soon, they lose that owners support and are looking for new jobs.

4 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

It's tough to evaluate receivers when you have Tyrod Taylor throwing them the ball as we can see with the play of Woods and Goodwin since leaving.  

Disagree, around here people thought Woods was a good WR, specifically a #2 WR though who would most likely get #1 WR money. As for Goodwin, the belief around here was that he just couldn't stay healthy to be on the field and wanted to be an olympic track star more then NFL WR so his heart wasn't into putting in the work here

[2ForMacAdoo]

3 hours ago, PlayoffsPlease said:

Whaley was awful.  He was only the most recent in  a string of truly horrible GMs.  Beane inherited a complete mess. Given how late he was hired last year, there was not more for him to do than assess the team.   He made the judgment the team wasn't never going far with Taylor at QB ( a judgement any sane human could make) .  He made similar evaluations of everyone on the team. His ultimate conclusion was for better or worse that there was nothing to build around.  A couple of old guys in Kyle Williams and LeSean McCoy that are fan favorites who are too old be be part of a long term future. And after that: nothing.  So he decided to come up with the strategy of  clearing the deck for 2019 and starting from scratch.  The only two players on the roster who matter at this point are Edmunds and Allen.  Everyone else will be replaced with a draft pick or a free agent pickup from next years 90 million of cap space.   The over all vision makes sense. 

 

The thing that is most distressing is that his cronyism with guys like Benjamin and Star L.  call his judgement into question.  If 2019 is a playoff year, then the strategy  made sense.  If it is some sort of babystep from an abysmal 2018 to a slightly better 2019, then It is 95% likely he is just the latest clown in the Bills GM clown show. 

Edmunds and Allen, yes but please, please don't call Tre' davious chopped liver. That boy Tre day can play. And dance too. That dude is a keeper. Those 3 guys are our future. Period.

[Ayjent]

9 hours ago, mjt328 said:

 

 

I get so tired of this argument. 

Many of the best QBs in NFL history were drafted to the WORST franchises in the league.  Bad O-Lines.  Bad receivers.  No running game.

 

If you have the chance to draft a franchise QB (especially on a team that hasn't had one in 20 years), you don't ask questions.  YOU DO IT!!!!

 

What if Beane had kept those 2018 picks, and used them to upgrade the O-Line and WR corps instead?  Then we get to the 2019 Draft with the #1 Pick.... and all of the prospects are terrible.  Or maybe we are drafting at #2 or #3 overall and there is only one good QB available. 

 

For all the b!+ching about roster management, the Bills have a potentially VERY STRONG foundation to build the future team on.  Quarterback (Allen), Left Tackle (Dawkins), Middle Linebacker (Edmunds) and Cornerback (White).  If those guys work out, we could be set for a very long time.

 

 

 

Okay best QBs in the league right now?

 

Brady - started playing on a playoff calibre team taking over for injured Drew Bledsoe

Big Ben - team around him was very good and could really protect him and overcome his mistakes (although he didn't make that many)

Aaron Rodgers - took over for Brett Favre on a pretty good team, not great, but didn't walk into a mess.

Drew Brees - a worse situation than all of the above and didn't really show much in his first year - by the time the Chargers drafted Rivers, Brees was playing pretty well - not to mention they also drafted Ladanian Tomlinson the same year as Brees and had a decent line.

*Philip Rivers - I'm a lot lower on Rivers than many people, mainly because he's done nothing when it matters to get any accolades and he puts up good numbers but doesn't really play as good as his numbers.  But he had LT in his prime, a good line and a lot of weapons in place when he became starter.

Russel Wilson - great defense, good running game, and solid line

Matt Ryan - Had a good team around him, good WRs, good RBs, solid line (Went 11-5)

Cam Newton - Had Steve Smith, good RBs, and a serviceable line.

 

I could keep going, but the fact is that these goods are all bona fide good QBs in the league and they all had a much better situation than this.  There are guys that are just so good they do excel (Peyton Manning - and even he had Marshall Faulk and a GM that understood they needed OL and WRs to help their QB), but that is the exception and hardly any walk into this type of mess and succeed.  The recent young guys having success are coming out looking polished and playing well, with the exception of Goff who had to suffer one year with the worst HC you could have as a QB (Jeff Fisher).  I'm not necessary sold on Goff, but he is playing pretty decent and has a great offensive head coach that knows what he is doing on that side of the ball.   The Bills are basically the closest thing to the Rams situation with Goff, a conservative HC with a pretty barren team on Offense, other than a good RB, and a good defense (although I would argue that both sides of the Ball for the Rams were better in Goff's rookie year in terms of talent than the current Bills roster).   His situation drastically changed and so did his success. My point is that there is a much higher likelihood for guys to fail in bad situations than good and the best in the league usually start off in decent situations.  It definitely happens at times when guys succeed in bad situations and other fail in good situations, but the success stories are more frequent the better the situation.

 

Now Allen's situation has to get much better by next year too.  I'm not sure they are going to unearth the next great offensive mind to coach Allen, but the pocket book should be wide open to attract the very best OC they can that has shown he can develop the position.  But would that happen under Beane and McDermott?  Was Daboll really the guy they thought was the best OC for a new QB or was it a position they needed to fill knowing that they may be in the market again soon?  I don't know if I'd buy the latter with a straight face, because they knew they were getting a QB in the draft and they knew the other guy on the roster they were going to keep and liked was only a second year guy.  So they had a good idea that they would have a pretty inexperienced QB group - Daboll has to be their guy they think is best for this job. 

 

Seriously,  think about that for a minute - we are talking about a HC that is not an Offensive mind that is going to call plays, so this is Daboll's show - an unproven OC to coach unproven talent at QB who doesn't look like he had any say in the staff.  However, Daboll can't really get a fair shake with the talent, but if it is horribly inept as it appears it could be, will they make him a sacrificial lamb to the masses and search out a OC that is fully capable of improving Allen's situation at all costs?  Not really fair to Daboll unless they are just putrid - if you are any good, I suppose you can make it work to some degree with smoke and mirrors, but really that's not a pretty lineup out there.

 

Hell I'd rehire Anthony Lynn or Greg Roman in a heartbeat fair or not to a semi-unproven guy like Daboll (I guess you could still say Peterman is unproven too despite a couple of bad stints as a starter).  Lynn (who knows how patient they will be with him if they don't win this year) and Roman (OC would be a promotion for him) can get a lot out of marginally skilled players at QB and I'd love to see what they could do with a guy like Allen.  Norv Turner would be a great option (could possibly leave if the new ownership wants to start with a different staff and replace Rivera).  Someone innovative, someone who help define the development of a player, not be part of a greatest organization as an unremarkable replaceable part in a well oiled machine.  Daboll's success came with Alabama as co-OC and the Patriots as a positional coach, not much outside of the evil empires.   

 

They need to make some big moves outside of personnel, as well as with it.  But they've got to get it right ASAP.  I'm glad there are some people optomistic about the chances that they get it right.  My point is that they have to get a lot of things right and not miss on much to get this turned around - they better be really as good as they think they are by getting into themselves into this position.  The question is whether they knew this was the position they were getting into? 

 

Edited September 12, 2018 by Ayjent

[ProcessAccepted]

44 minutes ago, Buftex said:

I am not a Beane/McDermot hater, but I think the roster they inherited was much better than what we have now.  I realize, this is a work in progress, and I am hopeful they build something better than what they are trying to replace...but they aren't there yet.  In my opinion, Rex Ryan and his coaching staff were the biggest obstacle to the Bills success.

 

They've cleared out a lot of the players that didn't fit their vision, now we just have to suffer through the dead cap hit this year. It won't be fun but it'll be alright.

 

The only thing that I really want to see this year is evidence that the current roster play improving. If the coaching staff can build that fight till the bitter end mentality we'll be in great shape when they start adding talent.

[BADOLBILZ]

44 minutes ago, Virgil said:

Nothing could be done about the O-Line situation.

 

Eh.

 

Still pretty sure the Cordy Glenn trade will be haunting them.

 

The Bengals only need to get a couple good seasons out of him to make it a worthwhile acquisition and my guess is he will still be a starting OT in the NFL in 2022 and he should be playing LT for the Bills now and Dawkins rightfully should be the LG or RT.........good LT's are very scarce.

 

They will likely have to spend a chip of equal or greater value to get his replacement and THEN go thru growing pains to develop that player for a couple years.

 

What Beane really needs is his heralded ALL STAR cast of personnel people to find some gems to fix some of the holes they've created........they've been very unproductive to this point, IMO.

 

 

[Best Player Available]

36 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

It's tough to evaluate receivers when you have Tyrod Taylor throwing them the ball as we can see with the play of Woods and Goodwin since leaving.  

Letting Woods walk a huge mistake. The guy is showing why in LA.

He is an exciting guy to watch in particular when he is a blocker. 

Allen could have used him. I think he resigned at about 8 million per year.

[THEHARDTRUTH]

8 hours ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

Do you feel better now?  I never said anyone had to be an expert.  Now get to your anger management class before you are late.

You manage to look dumber with every post. Good job.

[Aussie Joe]

Maybe Woods wanted to leave?

 

He was a free agent right?

 

 

[BillsFan4]

It was reported long before McDermott was hired, that the Bills weren’t even trying to negotiate a new deal with Woods. Not 100% sure of the reason.

But I did read that he wanted to go home to California (which is what ended up happening). It makes me think that maybe he wasn’t interested in re-signing here. 

[BADOLBILZ]

14 minutes ago, ProcessAccepted said:

If the coaching staff can build that fight till the bitter end mentality we'll be in great shape when they start adding talent.

 

 

So you thought they fought til the bitter end Sunday?

 

What we are seeing is the same thing we saw under Jauron..........team plays hard until they get down a couple scores then gets discouraged and they start making business decisions.

 

Nobody in the NFL is going to kill themselves for bad game plans,  poor in-game management and poor use of personnel anymore.

 

 

 

 

[Jeff1954]

Thank you to everyone who posted. You all know much more than me and I really appreciate the insights and points of view. I live in Sydney, Australia and only get to see the games on TV so the more opinions I read, the better I understand.

Just a couple of points.

It was widely reported that Brandon Beane made it very clear to Mr Pegula that it would take him three years to get the team’s financial situation back on track. Really, this is year Two. By the start of year three, the Bills’ cap situation will be looking terrific. In that sense, he has overachieved.

Coach McDermott achieved a better outcome with a clearly less talented team than Rex Ryan. He is still a rookie head coach. He too has earned the benefit of the doubt despite making his share of mistakes.

Their fates will and should depend on how Josh Allen is brought along. It seems to be the belief that it takes three years to evaluate draft picks.

Despite the understandable disappointment and frustration with poor performances, on all counts , they deserve a break from the “fire them!” comments for the next couple of years.

 

[78thealltimegreat]

I think they get the benefit of the doubt cause they really are building this team for next year   I doubt they expected this level of futility especially on the defensive side of the ball 

[Victory Formation]

I think we have a franchise QB. Beane will have a few years to build the team.

[Vod Kanockers]

1 hour ago, Laughing Coffin said:

Some of us here make it sound like we were lush with talent all over the field in 2016. 

 

But the fact of the matter is, aside from Beane dumping a few players, this team was already garbage heading into 2017.

Dareus / Darby I agree with those 2 players definitely. We could have kept Dareus and dealt with a lot less dead cap situation after next year, we are eating his cap space anyways still and we could have had him on the field for the same price we're paying not to have him here, and he would have likely kept our interior DL respectable until then. As far as our CB2 position, it's in absolute shambles, so the Darby deal was not good in my opinion either.

Maybe not resigning Robert Woods/Marquise Goodwin, but those were decisions made by Whaley/McDermott. Can't blame them on Goodwin, he was always a tad banged up, just got hurt again after a promising 2017 campaign where he came out relatively unscathed. The best ability is availability, after all. Robert Woods seemed like a "process" guy I'm surprised we didn't throw 7 mil his way per year. Whenever he was listed as questionable on the IR he was likely going to be out there on the field, seemed like a guy who wanted to just play football

So unless I'm missing anyone from the 2016 Bills, our "roster of talent" equates to 2-3 guys (4 if you want to count Sammy, who's done nothing to warrant getting 16 mil a year so far) that we should have kept in their respectful spots, and built around them instead of creating holes that we still haven't filled. Not to mention we had 2 starting OL retire/go mental.

Tyrod masked our OL issues a lot more than most give him credit for, this team did not belong at 9-7 last year, especially our team the 2nd half of the year, soon as we dealt Dareus we started to get GASHED in the run game.  It was glaringly obvious how important he was at clogging the middle. If we would have played to our roster's talent on paper, our team likely was a 5-11 6-10 team that would have been lush with picks in this most recent draft.  We would have been able to sit at our position and drafted Allen, keeping the rest of our day 2 picks.

What they’re never going to tell you... Last year was the tear down/tank year. Ship off anything you can get value for in the form of draft picks. Good QB class coming out, draft high. What they DIDNT plan on, was making the playoffs or having a winning record. How do you snap the longest drought in North American sports and come out and say.. “whoops! Wasn’t our intention?” Beane has been good so far at getting picks for players. However, Whaley is showing to be the master at digging through the trash and bringing in high quality players. Having the record that they did last year threw a wrench in their plans. Right now, you’re seeing them scramble to act like they planned for it all along.. Beanes ability to bring in any sort of quality FA is quite suspect to this point. 

[Laughing Coffin]

5 minutes ago, Vod Kanockers said:

What they’re never going to tell you... Last year was the tear down/tank year. Ship off anything you can get value for in the form of draft picks. Good QB class coming out, draft high. What they DIDNT plan on, was making the playoffs or having a winning record. How do you snap the longest drought in North American sports and come out and say.. “whoops! Wasn’t our intention?” Beane has been good so far at getting picks for players. However, Whaley is showing to be the master at digging through the trash and bringing in high quality players. Having the record that they did last year threw a wrench in their plans. Right now, you’re seeing them scramble to act like they planned for it all along.. Beanes ability to bring in any sort of quality FA is quite suspect to this point. 

 

 

Exactly.  Like I'll take the drought being over it was great to just to purge that weight looming on our staff/locker room/fan base.  But we really screwed the pooch in hindsight playing way above our projection.  IF we went 6-10 for instance we would have likely been able to keep most of our picks

[Ol Dirty B]

We hired a high school coach and AD. That's the problem. They have no clue about man management. 

42 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

So you thought they fought til the bitter end Sunday?

 

What we are seeing is the same thing we saw under Jauron..........team plays hard until they get down a couple scores then gets discouraged and they start making business decisions.

 

Nobody in the NFL is going to kill themselves for bad game plans,  poor in-game management and poor use of personnel anymore.

 

 

 

 

 

Lol fight till the bitter end. I'd feel so much better if Benjamin caught that td so we put up 7.

 

This team is !@#$ing garbage. This isn't your high school team, I don't want to hear that nonsense. They need elite athletes and talent and they traded all that away and traded all that away.

[BillsSbSoon]

1 hour ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

I’m not buying McDermott’s sob story about inheriting a bad team that needed new culture. 

 

Hey Beane, it’s 2018, might want to do better than Chris Ivory and Jeremy Kerley.

Im not buying that either. We had a lot of talent. The problem was it wasnt sustainable cause of the contracts given out when we still lacked a qb

[Ol Dirty B]

Just now, BillsSbSoon said:

Im not buying that either. We had a lot of talent. The problem was it wasnt sustainable cause of the contracts given out when we still lacked a qb

 

It's absolutely sustainable with a qb on a rookie contract. 

[John from Riverside]

1 minute ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

It's absolutely sustainable with a qb on a rookie contract. 

Did we have that QB on a rookie contract at the time we started these moves?

[Ol Dirty B]

Just now, John from Riverside said:

Did we have that QB on a rookie contract at the time we started these moves?

 

No, but the plan was in place. They had 2 1st rounders before they got rid of Watkins, and Darby. I like Edmunds, but the capital used to get him, throw that all in the qb trade up and they probably could have found a way to Allen. And have Darby, Watkins, and Glenn. Not to mention the trade for Benjamin, do with that trade what you want. It makes no sense at this point.

[John from Riverside]

15 minutes ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

No, but the plan was in place. They had 2 1st rounders before they got rid of Watkins, and Darby. I like Edmunds, but the capital used to get him, throw that all in the qb trade up and they probably could have found a way to Allen. And have Darby, Watkins, and Glenn. Not to mention the trade for Benjamin, do with that trade what you want. It makes no sense at this point.

A Kuch type linebacker was absolutely needed for this defense......you may not agree with McD's vision but he is not being wishy washy in trying to get their....if he is trying to build the Panther's defenses (ranked in the top 10) it had a LB with great range that can get anywhere on the field......Edmunds was a big pick up for this team.

 

There are players I would rather have seen not go....but I am not going to make a final determination on McD and Beane until I see what they are actually trying to create

 

And they are gonna get that chance.....this turnover of coaches and gms is not helping this team either........the are going to get their opportunity of next offseason with that cap room and another set of draft picks

[BillsSbSoon]

19 minutes ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

It's absolutely sustainable with a qb on a rookie contract. 

Yeah but we didnt have that at the time. And before that, we were close in '14 with a really talented roster and ej was on a rookie deal and obv it didnt work and is part of why we are where we are now. 

Guys like woods wanted out because he was basically an extra blocker in our offense

[Ol Dirty B]

1 minute ago, John from Riverside said:

A Kuch type linebacker was absolutely needed for this defense......you may not agree with McD's vision but he is not being wishy washy in trying to get their....if he is trying to build the Panther's defenses (ranked in the top 10) it had a LB with great range that can get anywhere on the field......Edmunds was a big pick up for this team.

 

There are players I would rather have seen not go....but I am not going to make a final determination on McD and Beane until I see what they are actually trying to create

 

And they are gonna get that chance.....this turnover of coaches and gms is not helping this team either........the are going to get their opportunity of next offseason with that cap room and another set of draft picks

 

Our defense, which they supposedly addressed gave up almost 50 points this week. With backups playing the second half. Edmunds could be great, but he isn't single handedly cutting that in half.

 

These guys have done an atrocious job this off season. I don't see how it can be cut any other way. Doesn't mean it will be that way forever, but I'm not a believer in them.

Just now, BillsSbSoon said:

Yeah but we didnt have that at the time. And before that, we were close in '14 with a really talented roster and ej was on a rookie deal and obv it didnt work and is part of why we are where we are now. 

Guys like woods wanted out because he was basically an extra blocker in our offense

 

As opposed to what WR would want to come here now? They still have that outdated philosophy 

[BillsSbSoon]

2 minutes ago, Ol Dirty B said:

As opposed to what WR would want to come here now? They still have that outdated philosophy 

If allen shows he can play, wr's will want to play with him.

[vincec]

6 hours ago, Buftex said:

I am not a Beane/McDermot hater, but I think the roster they inherited was much better than what we have now.  I realize, this is a work in progress, and I am hopeful they build something better than what they are trying to replace...but they aren't there yet.  In my opinion, Rex Ryan and his coaching staff were the biggest obstacle to the Bills success.

Not his entire staff either, IMO. Him and his brother were the primary problems. His offensive coaches and many of his position coaches were solid.

[PlayoffsPlease]

5 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

Did we have that QB on a rookie contract at the time we started these moves?

Yes, our week 1 starter Nate Peterman.  Hope that clears things up for you. 

 

 

[JohnC]

12 hours ago, BringBackOrton said:

Forcing?  He agreed to it.  We are hardly privy to Richie's mental state and the discussions regarding the paycut behind closed doors.

 

With any paycut, there's the unspoken threat of "we may have to cut you if you don't agree," but Richie agreed, then melted down and reneged.  Hundreds of players before Richie have taken paycuts in their old age without resorting to calling the team owner's in the middle of the night screaming obscenities.  And once he did that, he was done in the NFL.  He was the author of his own fate.  You don't harass the boss who writes the checks just because you feel slighted.

 

It's a damn shame.  And it hurt the Buffalo Bills.  But no one carries more responsibility for that than Richie Incognito himself.

We agree then that you need decent NFLers around a QB to help your QB?  How you could be okay with Zay Jones as a #1 option in the year of our lord 2018 and in the same breath bemoan the offensive line is beyond me.

How did you come up with that fictitious conclusion? Making things up not only doesn't support your position it undercuts your credibility. 

 

With respect to Incognito the issue isn't so much keeping him or not. The issue is if you are not going to keep him then have an acceptable replacement who should at a  minimum be competent. The player who replaced RI was Ducasse. Not only is he not good enough to be a backup but he is not good enough to be in the league. 

[BillsVet]

7 hours ago, Vod Kanockers said:

What they’re never going to tell you... Last year was the tear down/tank year. Ship off anything you can get value for in the form of draft picks. Good QB class coming out, draft high. What they DIDNT plan on, was making the playoffs or having a winning record. How do you snap the longest drought in North American sports and come out and say.. “whoops! Wasn’t our intention?” Beane has been good so far at getting picks for players. However, Whaley is showing to be the master at digging through the trash and bringing in high quality players. Having the record that they did last year threw a wrench in their plans. Right now, you’re seeing them scramble to act like they planned for it all along.. Beanes ability to bring in any sort of quality FA is quite suspect to this point. 

 

The jury is still out on McCoach/Beane.  Whaley is running a third rate college all star game. McCoach/Beane are 9-8 in the regular season.

 

Neither McCoach or Beane strike me as the type who were content rebuilding and not really competing for 2 seasons. Their decisions are open to criticism, but the book has not been written on their tenure. Whaley's NFL career is, at the least, on hold no matter how well he dumpster dived.  

 

Last year was not a tank year and neither is this season.  Think they would have one of the oldest rosters in the league if that were the case? Doubtful.  Or spent what they did in UFA this off-season?

 

The main issue now is how flexible are they with the process. It got them through last year's peaks and valleys. This year will probably not result in playoff contention by week 12. 

[JohnC]

23 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

We seem to have a lot of those type of players. Players not good enough to be in the league. 

 

As as long as they buy in though as we get our asses kicked up and down the field....

This league and the system that it works under is predicated on a lot of player movements. Much of it is due to contracts (cap system) and a high rate of injuries. RI and Glenn were possible if not probable candidates to be moved. While Woods health situation was a surprise the status of the two other players was not. The next question was what was the plan to replace them? Very often you can't replace the departed players with equal talent but you should be able to replace them with acceptable talent levels. 

 

When you watch Ducasse you see a player that is constantly being overwhelmed and driven back on every play. That shouldn't have been a surprise because it reflects his history of play. Because of the departures on the line it was probable that this line wasn't going to be good. That doesn't mean that it had to be atrociously bad. That level of ineptitude from the line reverberates throughout the offense not giving it a chance to function. This was predictable and this is a shame.