Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 5 hours ago, Johnny Hammersticks said: What the hell are you talking about....ignorance? Must be talking about himself, only thing that sounds about right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 5 hours ago, ny33 said: Agreed. Something that often gets overlooked is that the Bills traded too much for the 7th pick: https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2018/4/26/17288354/buffalo-bills-overpay-to-trade-up-for-josh-allen-draft-chart-jimmy-johnson-value Arizona paid far less in the Rosen trade. This wasn't a year where people were clamoring to trade up. We probably could have given up less and had enough resources to at least pick up a 2nd/3rd round lineman. Either that or if we'd offered less the Bucs might have turned us down. And maybe Arizona would have traded up above us and grabbed Allen. Ideally, you don't overpay. In fact, if you have a move you're determined to make, you pay what you have to. And yeah, you're judged on how successful that move was. If Allen doesn't work out, they'll be blamed, rightfully. If it does work out, they'll be praised, rightfully, and nobody will give a damn that we gave up two 2nd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Playoffs? Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 We need: - Allen to show that he’s a baller this season, leaving no doubt that he’s our QB of the future - some stud prospect QB to show himself in college this year, making himself the clear number 1 QB in the draft and potential number 1 overall in the draft - some team to overpay us with players/draft picks to move up to the one spot! This all = filling some major holes for next season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepthefaith Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 (edited) 21 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said: Forcing? He agreed to it. We are hardly privy to Richie's mental state and the discussions regarding the paycut behind closed doors. With any paycut, there's the unspoken threat of "we may have to cut you if you don't agree," but Richie agreed, then melted down and reneged. Hundreds of players before Richie have taken paycuts in their old age without resorting to calling the team owner's in the middle of the night screaming obscenities. And once he did that, he was done in the NFL. He was the author of his own fate. You don't harass the boss who writes the checks just because you feel slighted. It's a damn shame. And it hurt the Buffalo Bills. But no one carries more responsibility for that than Richie Incognito himself. We agree then that you need decent NFLers around a QB to help your QB? How you could be okay with Zay Jones as a #1 option in the year of our lord 2018 and in the same breath bemoan the offensive line is beyond me. Agree and Ritchie had 1 productive year left at best. The Bills had many more needs this past off-season than could be addressed through the draft and free agency. They got 3 potential difference makers in the draft in Allen, Edmunds and Phillips. If those 3 become very productive starters in a year or two, we'll look back on this draft as the best in a very long time. Obviously they need help on the O-line. Maybe there will be some line help yet this year, but it's gonna be 2019 realistically before they're competitive. Beane's done a good job of getting the Bills out from under cap issues. Whether or not these guys can pick and develop talent is an open question. Edited September 12, 2018 by keepthefaith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 45 minutes ago, Formerly Allan in MD said: Not saying OL has to be a first round pick. But we've come nowhere close to that given our mediocre level of talent. Not sure if you are referring to past drafts....but we have drafted 2nd round offensive linemen recently Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COTC Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Pbomb said: Did you hear this from your executive friend Jealously is the fear of comparison... Pbitter are you afraid? Its okay ? Edited September 12, 2018 by COTC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 7 minutes ago, keepthefaith said: Agree and Ritchie had 1 productive year left at best. The Bills had many more needs this past off-season than could be addressed through the draft and free agency. They got 3 potential difference makers in the draft in Allen, Edmunds and Phillips. If those 3 become very productive starters in a year or two, we'll look back on this draft as the best in a very long time. Obviously they need help on the O-line. Maybe there will be some line help yet this year, but it's gonna be 2019 realistically before they're competitive. Beane's done a good job of getting the Bills out from under cap issues. Whether or not these guys can pick and develop talent is an open question. I have no problem with a down 2018 if it was expected to have some growing pains. I have a HUGE problem with a down 2018 if McBeane truly thought we would be better than 2017. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 4 hours ago, Formerly Allan in MD said: You build a team for success from the trenches out. Building a dominant offensive line hasn't been a priority for the Bills in years. Hate to say it but drafting a top prospect quarterback without fixing the line is a recipe for injury, loss of confidence, and/or disillusionment. Hopefully, it won't happen with Allen but if it does, it's because we put the cart before the horse. Yeah, you build a team for success from the trenches out. That's why the Bengals have racked up so many Super Bowl championships. Oh, wait ... You build a team for success from QB first and everyone else later. If you worry the guy might get injured you draft a McCarron and put your guy on the bench for a year, especially if the guy you draft is widely considered a guy who needs development. The Colts drafted Peyton Manning first thing and played him behind a bad OL. The Cowboys did the same thing with Aikman. Those guys were more NFL-ready than Allen. My guess is that Allen isn't ready but if he is, plenty of great QBs have taken a pasting behind bad OLs for a year or two. And that's nonsense that they haven't prioritized OL for years. They've been a good OL for a couple of years. The Wood and Incognito problems weren't a matter of priority. IMHO the Bills wanted McCarron to play all year, but he simply underachieved. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 6 minutes ago, COTC said: Jealously is the fear of comparison... Pbitter are you afraid? Its okay ? May I suggest that hippo crap vid as your avitar.....it fits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comebackkid Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 6 hours ago, COTC said: Where was V. Davis Sunday? Why was Gaines starting? He was a major liability. Is this another beane mistake? and how about that punter with no game experience, didn’t he flub a snap and fumble, typical of someone with no field experience. Another bean head scratcher. Punter was still better than Schmitt and now he has experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlayoffsPlease Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 (edited) Whaley was awful. He was only the most recent in a string of truly horrible GMs. Beane inherited a complete mess. Given how late he was hired last year, there was not more for him to do than assess the team. He made the judgment the team wasn't never going far with Taylor at QB ( a judgement any sane human could make) . He made similar evaluations of everyone on the team. His ultimate conclusion was for better or worse that there was nothing to build around. A couple of old guys in Kyle Williams and LeSean McCoy that are fan favorites who are too old be be part of a long term future. And after that: nothing. So he decided to come up with the strategy of clearing the deck for 2019 and starting from scratch. The only two players on the roster who matter at this point are Edmunds and Allen. Everyone else will be replaced with a draft pick or a free agent pickup from next years 90 million of cap space. The over all vision makes sense. The thing that is most distressing is that his cronyism with guys like Benjamin and Star L. call his judgement into question. If 2019 is a playoff year, then the strategy made sense. If it is some sort of babystep from an abysmal 2018 to a slightly better 2019, then It is 95% likely he is just the latest clown in the Bills GM clown show. Edited September 12, 2018 by PlayoffsPlease Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 9 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said: Yeah, you build a team for success from the trenches out. That's why the Bengals have racked up so many Super Bowl championships. Oh, wait ... You build a team for success from QB first and everyone else later. If you worry the guy might get injured you draft a McCarron and put your guy on the bench for a year, especially if the guy you draft is widely considered a guy who needs development. The Colts drafted Peyton Manning first thing and played him behind a bad OL. The Cowboys did the same thing with Aikman. Those guys were more NFL-ready than Allen. My guess is that Allen isn't ready but if he is, plenty of great QBs have taken a pasting behind bad OLs for a year or two. And that's nonsense that they haven't prioritized OL for years. They've been a good OL for a couple of years. The Wood and Incognito problems weren't a matter of priority. IMHO the Bills wanted McCarron to play all year, but he simply underachieved. Bingo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COTC Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 7 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: May I suggest that hippo crap vid as your avitar.....it fits What are you talking about? Are you attempting to be passive aggressive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 Just now, COTC said: What are you talking about? Are you attempting to be passive aggressive? No....it just seems to fit your posting style....it was just a suggestion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COTC Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 2 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: No....it just seems to fit your posting style....it was just a suggestion. You don’t have the authority or the experience to judge my posting style. I suggest you stay on topic, your tangents are out there man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman1876 Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 22 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said: I have no problem with a down 2018 if it was expected to have some growing pains. I have a HUGE problem with a down 2018 if McBeane truly thought we would be better than 2017. I don't think he in any way thought they'd be be 15 minutes ago, PlayoffsPlease said: Whaley was awful. He was only the most recent in a string of truly horrible GMs. Beane inherited a complete mess. Given how late he was hired last year, there was not more for him to do than assess the team. He made the judgment the team wasn't never going far with Taylor at QB ( a judgement any sane human could make) . He made similar evaluations of everyone on the team. His ultimate conclusion was for better or worse that there was nothing to build around. A couple of old guys in Kyle Williams and LeSean McCoy that are fan favorites who are too old be be part of a long term future. And after that: nothing. So he decided to come up with the strategy of clearing the deck for 2019 and starting from scratch. The only two players on the roster who matter at this point are Edmunds and Allen. Everyone else will be replaced with a draft pick or a free agent pickup from next years 90 million of cap space. The over all vision makes sense. The thing that is most distressing is that his cronyism with guys like Benjamin and Star L. call his judgement into question. If 2019 is a playoff year, then the strategy made sense. If it is some sort of babystep from an abysmal 2018 to a slightly better 2019, then It is 95% likely he is just the latest clown in the Bills GM clown show. I think Star Was brought in to do exactly what he did in Carolina, fill space to allow your LBs to make plays. They got their Luke Kuechly in Edmunds and figured star could do for Edmunds what he did for Kuechly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 Wasn't the run D pretty good Sunday? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlayoffsPlease Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 2 minutes ago, Batman1876 said: I don't think he in any way thought they'd be be I think Star Was brought in to do exactly what he did in Carolina, fill space to allow your LBs to make plays. They got their Luke Kuechly in Edmunds and figured star could do for Edmunds what he did for Kuechly. Time will tell. But it appears that he over values players that he knows. Fans do the same. Fans aren't gm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 1 hour ago, oldmanfan said: With the taking away of headshots the middle of the field will be exploited in the passing game. Edmunds helps there. Except that Dareus was dogging it. Marcel is a very unfortunate situation He is obviously very talented......but very lazy......and when he got that new contract from us he fricken went on vacation mentally. You can still see it even when he plays for the jags........there are definately times he does not give full effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 Just now, John from Riverside said: Marcel is a very unfortunate situation He is obviously very talented......but very lazy......and when he got that new contract from us he fricken went on vacation mentally. You can still see it even when he plays for the jags........there are definately times he does not give full effort. I hate to see any young person waste their talents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColdFront_USAF Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 7 hours ago, COTC said: Insecurity....he is not a good gm. That much is apparent. I don't think many fans understand what 50 million in dead cap space means. It's not an afterthought or a small hurdle for a gm, it's a massive handicap that he has to work with. Off the top of my head, I believe the salary cap is around 170M or so. That means almost 30% of the cap this year is unusable for Beane. Do you think there's any way to truly evaluate this guy when he's been handed a roster devoid of talent and left in cap hell by the last gm? If it seems like better teams simply have more talent than us, it's because they have literally 50 million more dollars than us invested in their roster. And before you go there, it's not on Beane. The retirements were unexpected and out of his hands, and the Dareus contract he had to absorb was handed out by Doug Whaley. Lets wait until he is on an even field with the rest of the league to determine weather or not he's any good. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlayoffsPlease Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 11 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: I hate to see any young person waste their talents. It is possible it is not a lack of effort. Endurance is part of talent. Just like everyone is not equally fast, not everyone has equal endurance. He just can't play at his high end the whole game. And he doesn't have the skill set to dial it down to a consistent level that he can play at for the whole game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodHands15 Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 1 minute ago, ColdFront_USAF said: I don't think many fans understand what 50 million in dead cap space means. It's not an afterthought or a small hurdle for a gm, it's a massive handicap that he has to work with. Off the top of my head, I believe the salary cap is around 170M or so. That means almost 30% of the cap this year is unusable for Beane. Do you think there's any way to truly evaluate this guy when he's been handed a roster devoid of talent and left in cap hell by the last gm? If it seems like better teams simply have more talent than us, it's because they have literally 50 million more dollars than us invested in their roster. And before you go there, it's not on Beane. The retirements were unexpected and out of his hands, and the Dareus contract he had to absorb was handed out by Doug Whaley. Lets wait until he is on an even field with the rest of the league to determine weather or not he's any good. Hot damn! /thread Perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 1 minute ago, GoodHands15 said: Hot damn! /thread Perfect. It should end the thread....but it wont and you know why Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 8 minutes ago, PlayoffsPlease said: It is possible it is not a lack of effort. Endurance is part of talent. Just like everyone is not equally fast, not everyone has equal endurance. He just can't play at his high end the whole game. And he doesn't have the skill set to dial it down to a consistent level that he can play at for the whole game. Perhaps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stony Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 38 minutes ago, COTC said: You don’t have the authority or the experience to judge my posting style. I suggest you stay on topic, your tangents are out there man. For someone with a pot avatar, you're angry. Pack that pipe and chill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlayoffsPlease Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 13 minutes ago, ColdFront_USAF said: I don't think many fans understand what 50 million in dead cap space means. It's not an afterthought or a small hurdle for a gm, it's a massive handicap that he has to work with. Off the top of my head, I believe the salary cap is around 170M or so. That means almost 30% of the cap this year is unusable for Beane. Do you think there's any way to truly evaluate this guy when he's been handed a roster devoid of talent and left in cap hell by the last gm? If it seems like better teams simply have more talent than us, it's because they have literally 50 million more dollars than us invested in their roster. And before you go there, it's not on Beane. The retirements were unexpected and out of his hands, and the Dareus contract he had to absorb was handed out by Doug Whaley. Lets wait until he is on an even field with the rest of the league to determine weather or not he's any good. Beane did create a good chunk of this seasons cap hell. I am not saying it is not worth it. But there were other ways to manage it, if they wanted to be more competitive this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COTC Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 1 minute ago, stony said: For someone with a pot avatar, you're angry. Pack that pipe and chill. I’m not angry. I think you misunderstood my tone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 1 minute ago, COTC said: I’m not angry. I think you misunderstood my tone. Your just a misunderstood individual we understand lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COTC Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 2 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: Your just a misunderstood individual we understand lol Hippo crap avatar guy is back... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlayoffsPlease Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 The Bills are not a young team. https://www.phillyvoice.com/ranking-nfl-teams-age-after-53-man-cutdowns-2018-edition/ The age distribution in the NFL is pretty narrow. No one is really "young" or "old". Its the nature of the salary cap and rookie contract rules. But McDermott is lying or clueless to maintain the Bills are a young team. Only 4 teams are older. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 1 hour ago, Thurman#1 said: On the contrary, it was certainly very obvious to them that they were likely to have problems at OL once Incognito and Wood left, and even more so when they traded Glenn as well. Nobody's dumb enough not to notice this. But they had other priorities they decided to handle first. You can't prioritize everything. Attempting to do so only shows a lack of priorities. Another thing that should be very obvious is that you can't address every weak area each year. They had problems this year at one CB, at LB, at OL, at DL and at WR. Oh, and did I forget QB? There was never a chance to fill all the possible holes so things would look just fine this year. Particularly for a team which had been in serious cap trouble and with a GM who had promised the owner to get rid of that cap problem this year. It simply was not going to happen. It's bizarre to me how people expect every hole to be filled even though it doesn't happen on even the best teams with relatively few holes. It's what makes it difficult to be an NFL GM. There is no perfect solution and even good solutions tend to take several years before things start to look good if you're starting with a lot of holes. And we are. i don't expect them to plug every hole or climb every mountain. but I do expect them to be at least competitive EVERY YEAR. Especially the after we are in the playoffs. May still turn out that way, but early returns are bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 2 minutes ago, COTC said: Hippo crap avatar guy is back... It was just a suggestion..... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 8 minutes ago, PlayoffsPlease said: Beane did create a good chunk of this seasons cap hell. I am not saying it is not worth it. But there were other ways to manage it, if they wanted to be more competitive this season. The vast majority of it was created because they were trying to get ammo to get a franchise QB (trading TT and Glenn), Wood's retirement and dumping Dareus' bad contract. I questioned extending Wood last season but now I get why they did it. And Richie going crazy was not totally expected, but also not unexpected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djp14150 Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 7 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said: not quite. should have traded Tyrod last year so we didn't have to give up very valuable draft picks. Otherwise we are right on track. Instead they should have traded with houston and gotten 4OA from them. they do the trade with Cincinnati then move up to 12...they pick the same players at 4 and 12 and still had their 2 2nd and first pick in the 3rd rd. the other forgotten part of the trades of Watkins and Darby is the pkayers acquired aren’t with thus team. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 Quote McBeane's way of rebuilding makes no sense Getting rid of every asset you had and replacing them with former Panthers makes no sense? Hmmm 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bing Bong Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 8 hours ago, Thurman#1 said: What was your prediction for the year? Did you think we'd win eight or nine or ten games? People who predicted a lot of wins this year weren't quite understanding how long it takes to build consistent success when you're switching schemes and the regime before you put you in awful salary cap shape. What was your prediction for last year? 9? Nailed it! I thought we wouldn't be the worst team after that.. ya know all that happened before last year. We just.. uh, call it a bad off-season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snafu Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 3 hours ago, reddogblitz said: At least a decent part of this is their own fault. We are spending cap space on guys that aren't even on the team anymore like Hotrod and Dareus yet the positions they play are huge holes. Would seem to make more sense to pay them and get their services as opposed to paying them and not. I also would add that I don't trust this regime to spend next year's $90 million cap on free agents when they've shown about a 50/50 success rate. They've done pretty well with draft picks, but they have a lot of holes to fill and free agency is going to be key in the offseason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heitz Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 Best article I've seen on what the Bills are trying to build - not everyone thinks it makes no sense... 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
folz Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 58 minutes ago, PlayoffsPlease said: The Bills are not a young team. https://www.phillyvoice.com/ranking-nfl-teams-age-after-53-man-cutdowns-2018-edition/ The age distribution in the NFL is pretty narrow. No one is really "young" or "old". Its the nature of the salary cap and rookie contract rules. But McDermott is lying or clueless to maintain the Bills are a young team. Only 4 teams are older. By my count, 12 players who got significant playing time for the Bills in week 1 were either rookies or 2nd year players. The mean age of the team may be average or high, but there are a lot of very young players actually on the field playing...and in some very key roles: QB, middle LB, nickle CB. The team had 9 players on the roster who had never seen a regular season game before. So, I don't think the coach was out of line or lying by saying he has a young team. It isn't about the average age of the team, it's about the lack of experience on the field and a lot of young players that need to be coached up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts