MMQB: Why the Browns are making a mistake with Baker Mayfield (by starting Tyrod)

[BuffaloBillyG]

Hue will start Taylor. Taylor will have a few 86 yard passing games, Dorsey will fire Hue and the intrem coach (Todd Haley, perhaps) will start Baker.

[GoBills808]

8 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said:

 

Calling something "comparable" isn't the same thing as "comparing one thing to another"

 

"Comparable" means they are similar/alike, or right equivalent

"Comparing one thing to another" is looking at their similarities and differences

 

They are not the same thing

 

Tyrod/Mayfield is not "comparable" to Flynn/Wilson

 

Flynn was signed to be the franchise starter long term. This was reported on by literally every news source, and stated by Seattle.

Tyrod was traded for to be the 1-2 year starter at most until they felt Mayfield was ready

 

I have said this like 4 times now.

Your reading comprehension isn't very good.

Doesn't it just burn you up that the Bissell PowerGuide Cordless 1534 is being compared to the Eureka AirSpeed CleanXtreme AS3006A right now? Other than both being vacuum cleaners they're literally nothing alike.

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

1 hour ago, uticaclub said:

Minicamps haven’t even started yet, there’s no way Baker doesn’t beat out Tyrod for the starting job

I agree, if Baker doesn't beat out Taylor the Browns are in big doo doo.

[SouthNYfan]

2 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Doesn't it just burn you up that the Bissell PowerGuide Cordless 1534 is being compared to the Eureka AirSpeed CleanXtreme AS3006A right now? Other than both being vacuum cleaners they're literally nothing alike.

 

"Being Compared to" and calling two things "comparable" are not the same thing

Which I said

Again, your reading comprehension is terrible

[uticaclub]

1 hour ago, StHustle said:

 

You are silly to think Mayfield will be better than or even equal to Tyrod by the start of the regular season. Not sure if you are serious or trolling.

 

As far as the article stating the Browns should declare Mayfield the starter right now shows the author may even have a lower football IQ than you uticaclub.

 

I can’t tell if you are being serious. The Browns just signed Jarvis Landry to a large contract, a quick, short yardage, timing route WR, a target Tyrod can’t hit. Tyrod is there to be a mentor and bring veteran leadership.

[C.Biscuit97]

1 hour ago, JoeF said:

I wanted Hue over Rex when the Bills hired Rex...I now see the Bills couldn't have made a good choice with either finalist...Its not this decision alone its the way he has to grab attention and use his media friends to feed his ego.  Give me an understated, humble coach.

I think Hue plus Schwartz would have us in the playoffs in 2015.  The Browns situation is a train wreck.

 

and I thought it was nuts we got a 3rd for Tyrod but they should let him start.  Let Baker learn on the bench and then halfway through the season when Tyrod isn’t throwing the ball to his really good wrs, Baker will get his shot.  Honestly, it is a perfect situation for him.

[Section242]

Hue Jackson is 9-39 as a head coach and 2-35 in his last 37 games. He had no reason to declare Tyrod the starter nor does he have any business being a head coach.

[atlbillsfan1975]

1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said:

Hue keeps doubling down saying it won’t happen. QB controversy will be fierce if Baker looks that much better and they don’t play him. 

I prefer the way our FO and coaching staff appears to be handling this matter. Hue is painting himself into a corner unnecessarily.

[Big Turk]

1 hour ago, GoBills808 said:

I think it's pretty reasonable to think Mayfield could equal or best Taylor in camp and preseason, like a Wilson/Flynn situation except Mayfield was #1 overall and if things look even between him and Taylor that's added incentive to give him the nod. There's no institutional loyalty to Taylor in Cleveland.

The difference is Flynn had no real body of work as a starting quarterback for any length of time while Taylor had 3 years worth.

[Koko78]

22 minutes ago, Dalton said:

I agree the better player should start.  The question is can Mayfield prove he can read defenses while playing generic pre-season defenses?

 

On the other hand can you learn from the bench?

 

Proving he can read defenses/recognize disguises/etc. would have to be done in the film room. No one can say for sure until he's under center in live game conditions, but he can certainly show in the film room that he's put the work in beforehand.

[SouthNYfan]

1 minute ago, matter2003 said:

The difference is Flynn had no real body of work as a starting quarterback for any length of time while Taylor had 3 years worth.

 

I've said this 5 different ways

He refuses to acknowledge it

[Hapless Bills Fan]

42 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

I’m not sure there is a “right” answer between those two

 

Exactly, in hindsight the right answer is "No" or "neither"

[BadLandsMeanie]

Hugh Jackson is keeping his word. That's all. 

[Formerly Allan in MD]

Taylor is a tested veteran.  And he failed the test.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

2 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

Hue keeps doubling down saying it won’t happen. QB controversy will be fierce if Baker looks that much better and they don’t play him. 

 

 

...maybe why Hugh is 1-31?.....I'd bet 3-45 would be an improvement for Haslam.....

[Tyrod's friend]

Here is a bet:

I'm betting somewhere between now and the end of this football season, SI runs an article about the ratio of turnovers to touchdowns/likely victories in the NFL, using Tyrod Taylor w/Cleveland and Buffalo without Tyrod Taylor as the basis for the case study.

And I'm betting that the odds of that article running triples if Josh Allen starts in Buffalo before game 4. 

I'll go one further: I'm betting you see something like that article from ... let's say every GD'd football outlet in football until you are so sick of it ... that it makes whatever MMQB just vomited on it's page in order to seem relevant is a distant memory.

It might surprise people in Buffalo, but Cleveland wants to go to the playoffs this year. Tyrod gives them not a good chance, but an excellent chance to do that. Hue Jackson's stand is proper and reasoned. There is no reason to create a QB controversy where one doesn't exist. Unless of course it's so MMQB can get more clicks.

PS: I'm easily the biggest Mayfield fan here and called him to be the #1 draft pick long before it was fashionable, and regardless of my online name I'm not THAT big a fan of Tyrod Taylor.

[DC Tom]

2 hours ago, HappyDays said:

Eh I get it. Mayfield comes from a spread offense and needs to work on his footwork. They don't need to rush him into the starting spot, they can afford to spend at least half a season developing him. The Browns aren't good yet. They're paying Tyrod $16 million to be a capable bridge starter. I kind of wish we would do a similar thing with Allen.

 

Plus, Taylor is arguably just the sort of QB the Browns need right now - one who protects the ball and doesn't make many mistakes.  

[Seanbillsfan2206]

Jackson might be saying that Tyrod is the starter, but what is ownership/management saying? I’m going to go out on a limb here and say that there is zero chance that Mayfield sits the bench longer than one or two games...

[BillsFan17]

2 hours ago, grb said:

 

When Taylor had a comparable amount of offensive talent around him in Buffalo as now in Cleveland?

He finished seventh in the NFL by passer rating - ahead of Cam Newton, Matthew Stafford, Alex Smith, Ben Roethlisberger, etc, etc.

Maybe that's worth considering too.

 

http://www.espn.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/passing/sort/quarterbackRating/year/2015

That's wonderful, a similar passer rating.

 

Hey, folks now a days you can win games with passer ratings. Dont worry about only throwing 14 TDs this past season, Buffalo is going to be awarded wins based on Tyrod taking safe conservative throws. Those sub 70 yard passing games and being in the top three in sacks despite being behind one of the best rated lines, those dont mean anything, cause Tyrod is in the class of those aforementioned QBs.

 

The Browns were originally going to trade us their first rounder, cause ya know, Tyrod has a good passer rating, but Beane felt bad so he took a third instead.

Edited May 12, 2018 by BillsFan17

[timekills17]

2 hours ago, grb said:

 

When Taylor had a comparable amount of offensive talent around him in Buffalo as now in Cleveland?

He finished seventh in the NFL by passer rating - ahead of Cam Newton, Matthew Stafford, Alex Smith, Ben Roethlisberger, etc, etc.

Maybe that's worth considering too.

 

http://www.espn.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/passing/sort/quarterbackRating/year/2015

Stats are for losers.

[stuvian]

Now we know why SI is headed for the historical trashbin like Time.

TT is doing in Cleveland what McCarron is doing here - parlaying an audition into a better job somewhere else. If he doesn't he will become Fitz 2.0 and amass a great jersey collection along the way. Personally I expect TT to do well under Jackson (who I also wanted over Wrecks). Mayfield should have to earn his job just like Allen will have to .

[HappyDays]

2 hours ago, JohnC said:

How do you know the Bills aren't going to do the same thing as the Browns are by starting the veteran? I see McCarron being the starter. 

 

Maybe. But I think they're leaning more towards Allen. Beane has said he doesn't think Allen is raw, and yesterday McDermott said he believes in "learning on the job" when asked about him. They didn't try signing any serious free agent QBs who could conceivably start for a whole year (compared to the Jets and Browns and even Cardinals who have better bridge options in place). Plus I tend to trust Vegas and they have Allen as the most likely rookie QB to start 10+ games this year. I think McDermott's philosophy is to start Allen now and let him figure it out as he goes. I don't necessarily agree with that but as with all things on Allen I'm waiting to see how it goes before passing judgment.

[CommonCents]

1-31 and still babbling nonsense. Hue has went straight looney tunes on that fan base.

Edited May 12, 2018 by Commonsense

[YoloinOhio]

59 minutes ago, Tyrod's friend said:

Here is a bet:

I'm betting somewhere between now and the end of this football season, SI runs an article about the ratio of turnovers to touchdowns/likely victories in the NFL, using Tyrod Taylor w/Cleveland and Buffalo without Tyrod Taylor as the basis for the case study.

And I'm betting that the odds of that article running triples if Josh Allen starts in Buffalo before game 4. 

I'll go one further: I'm betting you see something like that article from ... let's say every GD'd football outlet in football until you are so sick of it ... that it makes whatever MMQB just vomited on it's page in order to seem relevant is a distant memory.

It might surprise people in Buffalo, but Cleveland wants to go to the playoffs this year. Tyrod gives them not a good chance, but an excellent chance to do that. Hue Jackson's stand is proper and reasoned. There is no reason to create a QB controversy where one doesn't exist. Unless of course it's so MMQB can get more clicks.

PS: I'm easily the biggest Mayfield fan here and called him to be the #1 draft pick long before it was fashionable, and regardless of my online name I'm not THAT big a fan of Tyrod Taylor.

I actually think he did create a QB controversy where none existed by declaring a starter so early. Having an open competition between the #1 overall pick and an average vet seems less controversial to me. It’s not like Baker is stepping into a team with an established starter at the helm. Tyrod has never taken a snap for the Browns or played for any of the coaches before either. He has 3 more years of playing experience but don’t see why that gives he has the starting job on lock down before they see either of them in this offense with these players.

Edited May 12, 2018 by YoloinOhio

[JohnC]

39 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Maybe. But I think they're leaning more towards Allen. Beane has said he doesn't think Allen is raw, and yesterday McDermott said he believes in "learning on the job" when asked about him. They didn't try signing any serious free agent QBs who could conceivably start for a whole year (compared to the Jets and Browns and even Cardinals who have better bridge options in place). Plus I tend to trust Vegas and they have Allen as the most likely rookie QB to start 10+ games this year. I think McDermott's philosophy is to start Allen now and let him figure it out as he goes. I don't necessarily agree with that but as with all things on Allen I'm waiting to see how it goes before passing judgment.

We don't know for sure so we'll see how it plays out. One of the reasons why I would rather have the staff be more conservative in their handling of him is because of the caliber of our OL. In my estimation it is less than average. With a strong OL you can have your young qb run a conservative offense that stresses the run and play action passes. 

 

I wouldn't complain if I were wrong in my assessment and have the big Josh simply overwhelmingly outshine the other qbs and cleanly earn the starting job. That would be wonderful yet improbable. In the long run what is more important than winning or losing an extra game or so with him is his development. It's not stretching the truth that how he develops is most likely the most critical issue facing this franchise in the near and long term future of this franchise. This regime has invested a lot to get to the point where they could draft him. It's imperative that it is smart on how they handle him. 

 

 

[Koko78]

1 hour ago, DC Tom said:

 

Plus, Taylor is arguably just the sort of QB the Browns need right now - one who protects the ball and doesn't make many mistakes.  

 

He's not the hero QB that the Browns deserve, but he's the hero QB that the Browns need.

[habes1280]

I think this has less to do with who is the better quarterback by the start of the season, and more to do with putting Mayfield into the best position to progress.  They're protecting their investment with statements like this by removing pressure to get him on the field, and giving him some time and room to grow (in principle, anyway). 

 

It's the NFL, though.  The moment he outperforms Tyrod in practice or mop-up duty, they'll throw him into the starting lineup, no matter what they say in the offseason, or whether or not it hurts him in the long run.

[billsfan89]

I think there is a good chance Tyrod gets the starting job out there. There is a reason they traded for Tyrod. They began scouring Mayfield and the QB's in January at the latest and they probably knew that none of these QB's were instantly ready to start, there was a reason that they traded for Tyrod wanting a veteran QB. 

[Foxx]

3 hours ago, Dalton said:

I agree the better player should start.  The question is can Mayfield prove he can read defenses while playing generic pre-season defenses?

 

On the other hand can you learn from the bench?

your forgetting one thing here.... i'm not sure Tyrod can read a defense. he didn't make even one audible here in 3 freaking years.

[billsfan89]

8 minutes ago, habes1280 said:

I think this has less to do with who is the better quarterback by the start of the season, and more to do with putting Mayfield into the best position to progress.  They're protecting their investment with statements like this by removing pressure to get him on the field, and giving him some time and room to grow (in principle, anyway). 

 

It's the NFL, though.  The moment he outperforms Tyrod in practice or mop-up duty, they'll throw him into the starting lineup, no matter what they say in the offseason, or whether or not it hurts him in the long run.

 

I think Tyrod starts 8-10 games at the very least, barring major injury or hideous performance. The Browns have to know that they are a year away at best from serious contention. Letting Tyrod take the pressure of a season off of Mayfield would help his development way too much for them to rush Mayfield in. 

 

Now if Mayfield is completely outclassing Tyrod that's a different story but I don't think that will happen. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, Tyrod's friend said:

It might surprise people in Buffalo, but Cleveland wants to go to the playoffs this year. Tyrod gives them not a good chance, but an excellent chance to do that. Hue Jackson's stand is proper and reasoned. There is no reason to create a QB controversy where one doesn't exist. Unless of course it's so MMQB can get more clicks.

 

I think a QB controversy is created whenever a QB is drafted #1 overall and does not start immediately.

 

I'm sure every team wants to go to the playoffs, but first Cleveland wants to start being a competitive football team that expects to win every time they take the field.  Despite the QB controversy and some opinions here, Tyrod was a QB who helped the Bills win half their games when he was here,  more so in 2015 and 2016 with a scheme that better suited his skills and better WR (but a poor D).  If Jackson wants to improve to at least 8-8, Tyrod is arguably his better path to that outcome.

 

I don't think anyone got Mayfield's buy-in to that notion though.

[Bing Bong]

If Tyrod wins the competition. Why not

[The_Dude]

Browns fans are gonna hate Tyrod by game 3. They’ll want the gunslinger to take over by then. 

[MJS]

6 hours ago, uticaclub said:

Minicamps haven’t even started yet, there’s no way Baker doesn’t beat out Tyrod for the starting job

 

I think it is almost assured that Tyrod wins the job and that he is a better QB as of right now. A couple years down the line I think it will be the other way around, but Tyrod will be long gone by that point and starting for some other QB needy team.

9 minutes ago, The_Dude said:

Browns fans are gonna hate Tyrod by game 3. They’ll want the gunslinger to take over by then. 

 

The Browns have won only 1 game in 2 seasons. Tyrod can win games. I bet they love him for a season before they realize his ceiling is so low.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

6 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

 

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/05/11/mistake-browns-are-making-baker-mayfield

 

Mayfield will be the first starter of the rookie QBs

 

 

[grb]

3 hours ago, BillsFan17 said:

That's wonderful, a similar passer rating.

 

Hey, folks now a days you can win games with passer ratings. Dont worry about only throwing 14 TDs this past season, Buffalo is going to be awarded wins based on Tyrod taking safe conservative throws. Those sub 70 yard passing games and being in the top three in sacks despite being behind one of the best rated lines, those dont mean anything, cause Tyrod is in the class of those aforementioned QBs.

 

The Browns were originally going to trade us their first rounder, cause ya know, Tyrod has a good passer rating, but Beane felt bad so he took a third instead.

 

Yeah; I'm sure Taylor averaged 7.99 yards per attempt in 2015 "taking safe conservative throws".

 

 

Edited May 13, 2018 by grb

[John from Riverside]

Let’s see what they look like in camp

[Hapless Bills Fan]

25 minutes ago, The_Dude said:

Browns fans are gonna hate Tyrod by game 3. They’ll want the gunslinger to take over by then. 

 

Depends.  Are they winning?  If they're winning, Tyrod will be just fine.

 

If any team's not winning, the backup QB is always the most popular guy in town

[BillsFan17]

16 minutes ago, grb said:

 

Yeah; I'm sure Taylor averaged 7.99 yards per attempt in 2015 "taking safe conservative throws".

 

 

The very same year where his 20 passing TDs was good for 21st in the league. Again, you arent winning games without points. Something Tyros seldom produced. Next!

[Tyrod's friend]

3 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

I actually think he did create a QB controversy where none existed by declaring a starter so early. Having an open competition between the #1 overall pick and an average vet seems less controversial to me. It’s not like Baker is stepping into a team with an established starter at the helm. Tyrod has never taken a snap for the Browns or played for any of the coaches before either. He has 3 more years of playing experience but don’t see why that gives he has the starting job on lock down before they see either of them in this offense with these players.

Not to use a truism we all know, but there is some distance between a controversy among fans and in the clubhouse. 

And when fans say things like "he's only been in town for a few months" ... I think they vastly underestimate the messages that the office is trying to send to players. There is a larger conversation that is going on between the HC and the players and it speaks to things like continuity of message. Note: their message is not necessarily the same as the one in Buffalo ("we earn things around here"). 

Cheers.