Marrone, Hackett, Poz, Dareus, Hogan, Gillislee, Gilmore, Bradham, Darby, Schwartz

[Bakin]

Not one to complain about This...but....

was that ever A LOT of former Bills we watched today?

[26CornerBlitz]

You are the 1st to notice this. 

 

[oldmanfan]

Five of the players were free agents.  That's what happens.  They leave sometimes.  We wouldn't have Hyde or Poyer for example.  

 

Marrone left in a power struggle.  And stories I've read is he's a different coach there so maybe he learned something here.  I do wish Schwartz had been kept.  And retrospectively  I would have taken Marrone over Ryan for sure.

[Rad Likes The Bills]

Don’t forget Corey Graham!

[Rob's House]

I was down on Whaley toward the end but I'm starting to think the guy got kind of a raw deal. Granted, he sucked at QB evaluation and made questionable decisions wrt trading up, but it seems he was good at finding position players that worked in the scheme he was scouting for.

 

I never gave him a pass on having coaches thrust upon him because a GM should be accountable for coaching decisions, but with the benefit of hindsight it appears he was a GM in name only and was really just the head of player personnel.

 

I'm not saying we should have kept him, but I think he's better than I and many others gave him credit for.

Edited January 22, 2018 by Rob's House

[MC Hamburg]

I always liked Doug Marrone and Jim Schwartz...should have kept one of these coaches somehow...but the Bills front office always seems to know more and be smarter than every one of us...so thanks to them for letting everyone go..then Hiring REX...then his Brother>>>LOL ...come on man!!!!!

Edited January 22, 2018 by MC Hamburg

[Helpmenow]

Former defensive coach Jerry gray with the vikes

[jahnyc]

A lot of talent has left this team over the last few year.  Gilmore, Darby, Dareus (if his head is in it), Bradham and Poz are all quality defensive players.  I wish things could have worked out differently and we could have figured out how to make it work with some of these players.  It is going to take some time to replenish the talent on the roster.  Another strong draft will help, unless we trade away a bunch of picks to move up for a QB or LB.

 

I think the Bills can learn from the Sabres.  Use the picks and don't trade them.

[Prickly Pete]

We always had some good players, but without a QB it didn't mean a thing.

[MrEpsYtown]

George Edwards! Running Zimmer's defense. He was a terrible DC here. 

[ColoradoBills]

11 minutes ago, OJABBA said:

We always had some good players, but without a QB it didn't mean a thing.

 

Bills do have that "kid" on the group W bench.

[mead107]

Don’t care about them, not Bills now 

[fansince88]

Tyrod Taylor....wait....is he still here?

 

[NoSaint]

1 hour ago, Rob's House said:

I was down on Whaley toward the end but I'm starting to think the guy got kind of a raw deal. Granted, he sucked at QB evaluation and made questionable decisions wrt trading up, but it seems he was good at finding position players that worked in the scheme he was scouting for.

 

I never gave him a pass on having coaches thrust upon him because a GM should be accountable for coaching decisions, but with the benefit of hindsight it appears he was a GM in name only and was really just the head of player personnel.

 

I'm not saying we should have kept him, but I think he's better than I and many others gave him credit for.

 

I think it’s fair. 

 

I think you have to acknowledge the coaching dynamic- but that doesn’t excuse him. His inability to obtain the power one needs to succeed is as much of a strike against him as picking the wrong coach would be. When the guy that is supposed to be in charge is willing to be complacent and defer major decisions instead of making the case to his boss for how things need to be— that’s a failure.

 

but I think that it’s hard to argue that outside of qb the marrone/schwartz team had a fantastic 50 other players assembled. Likewise, for as often as we switched scheme- we kept talent levels high.

 

i will always be curious about the discussions about qb (draft and free agency) that happened behind closed doors.

[Rob's House]

1 minute ago, NoSaint said:

 

I think it’s fair. 

 

I think you have to acknowledge the coaching dynamic- but that doesn’t excuse him. His inability to obtain the power one needs to succeed is as much of a strike against him as picking the wrong coach would be. When the guy that is supposed to be in charge is willing to be complacent and defer major decisions instead of making the case to his boss for how things need to be— that’s a failure.

 

but I think that it’s hard to argue that outside of qb the marrone/schwartz team had a fantastic 50 other players assembled. Likewise, for as often as we switched scheme- we kept talent levels high.

 

i will always be curious about the discussions about qb (draft and free agency) that happened behind closed doors.

I agree completely. If he didn't express his opposition to Rex Ryan he deserves all the blame for that hire and what it led to.

 

I actually don't think Rex was all that bad. He never really got the opportunity to implement his system with his guys. Year 2 saw his 1st and 2nd rd picks on IR before the season started.

 

But if Whaley was down for the hire he was down for all that came with it.

[Big Turk]

14 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

 

I think it’s fair. 

 

I think you have to acknowledge the coaching dynamic- but that doesn’t excuse him. His inability to obtain the power one needs to succeed is as much of a strike against him as picking the wrong coach would be. When the guy that is supposed to be in charge is willing to be complacent and defer major decisions instead of making the case to his boss for how things need to be— that’s a failure.

 

but I think that it’s hard to argue that outside of qb the marrone/schwartz team had a fantastic 50 other players assembled. Likewise, for as often as we switched scheme- we kept talent levels high.

 

i will always be curious about the discussions about qb (draft and free agency) that happened behind closed doors.

 

In some ways he acquired a lot of good players but that didnt turn us into a good team...sometimes he tried to fit square pegs into round holes.  There is a difference between building a team with a lot of good players and building a good team with players who all fill a certain role well and take pride in playing that role to the best of their ability...

 

I think that is what we are going to see under Beane and McDermott

Edited January 22, 2018 by matter2003

[VADC Bills]

1 hour ago, Rob's House said:

I was down on Whaley toward the end but I'm starting to think the guy got kind of a raw deal. Granted, he sucked at QB evaluation and made questionable decisions wrt trading up, but it seems he was good at finding position players that worked in the scheme he was scouting for.

 

I never gave him a pass on having coaches thrust upon him because a GM should be accountable for coaching decisions, but with the benefit of hindsight it appears he was a GM in name only and was really just the head of player personnel.

 

I'm not saying we should have kept him, but I think he's better than I and many others gave him credit for.

He did get a raw deal. He made a few errors but we had more talent on the team than Donohoe or Nix could assemble. A GM should have the power of picking his own coach. Whaley was never given that opportunity. I wonder how Beane's responsibilities will break down. My big concern heading into the off season is will Beane be able to evaluate talent as well as Whaley...I have my doubts.

[Freddie's Dead]

[Real McClappy]

46 minutes ago, jahnyc said:

A lot of talent has left this team over the last few year.  Gilmore, Darby, Dareus (if his head is in it), Bradham and Poz are all quality defensive players.  I wish things could have worked out differently and we could have figured out how to make it work with some of these players.  It is going to take some time to replenish the talent on the roster.  Another strong draft will help, unless we trade away a bunch of picks to move up for a QB or LB.

 

I think the Bills can learn from the Sabres.  Use the picks and don't trade them.

Nice post

 

Also, need to find a way to retain our picks so we don't have to waste more picks year after year replenishing the holes we make. I get that it's a cycle of the NFL but our attrition rate is absolutely horrible.

[NoSaint]

4 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

 

In some ways he acquired a lot of good players but that didnt turn us into a good team...sometimes he tried to fit square pegs into round holes.  There is a difference between building a team with a lot of good players and building a good team with players who all fill a certain role well and take pride in playing that role to the best of their ability...

 

I think that is what we are going to see under Beane and McDermott

 

Meh. I’m not denying pride and work ethic are big. But I think it’s hard to get 53 high talent, big, fast, smart, healthy, self motivated guys under the cap. So do you get less talent? Or take risks elsewhere? 

 

I tend to think the best teams keep some rough around the edges guys and count on the fact that when you are in the big moments they will show up. A guy that’s a trouble maker on a 6-10 squad can be a super bowl mvp on a 13-3 team kind of thing.

 

ultimately there is a balance though. If the EJ pick worked, I don’t think we run into as much trouble with motivation. You’d have guys winning, in a scheme they were suited to play in for coaches they signed up to play for... 

 

im hoping that McD finds his couple of explosive guys that come cheaper than they should because of trouble but drink the kool aid while they are here 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

Marrone is a different Coach in Jacksonville because he has no nonsense Coughlin sitting above him. 

 

So his Saint Doug act won't fly. 

[Nick the Greek]

4 hours ago, MC Hamburg said:

I always liked Doug Marrone and Jim Schwartz...should have kept one of these coaches somehow...but the Bills front office always seems to know more and be smarter than every one of us...so thanks to them for letting everyone go..then Hiring REX...then his Brother>>>LOL ...come on man!!!!!

I think Pegula is a horrible owner. He totally, I mean TOTALLY messed up with Marrone/Schwartz to bring in Ryan. I guess he gets props with McD but have you seen the Sabres? Yea, Pegula is an idiot. 

[Domdab99]

Hackett LOL

[Punching Bag]

1 hour ago, Idandria said:

I think Pegula is a horrible owner. He totally, I mean TOTALLY messed up with Marrone/Schwartz to bring in Ryan. I guess he gets props with McD but have you seen the Sabres? Yea, Pegula is an idiot. 

 

Marone had 3 days to opt out to get $4 million and did it; Pegula did not have option to tag him.

[ganesh]

2 hours ago, Limeaid said:

 

Marone had 3 days to opt out to get $4 million and did it; Pegula did not have option to tag him.

BUt word was that Doug would have stayed if the assistants got their contracts extended (Final year)...It was refused. So he sensed that the Pegulas did not yet trust him and he blew the cop

[BuffaloBillyG]

1 hour ago, ganesh said:

BUt word was that Doug would have stayed if the assistants got their contracts extended (Final year)...It was refused. So he sensed that the Pegulas did not yet trust him and he blew the cop

However Marrone gets out of speeding tickets is his own business. Lets respect the man's privacy.

[Dr. K]

Thank the Pegulas and their hire of Sexy Rexy.

[Prickly Pete]

24 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

But what about the Whaley mistakes? 

Whaley had two issues. 

 

He was QB blind and Rex Ryan. The 2015 and 2016 teams should've EASILY been playoff teams. Rex completely !@#$ed it up. 

 

What about 'em?

And while you're at it, what about Buddy Nix's mistakes? And Russ Brandon's? And Marv Levy's? And Tom Donahoe's?

They all !@#$ed up. And they all found some good players that went elsewhere, and none of them found a decent QB. And that's the main reason the team has sucked for so long.

 

Again, what about 'em? Are you about to reveal something that everyone on this board hasn't figured out?

Edited January 22, 2018 by OJABBA

[Ol Dirty B]

9 hours ago, NoSaint said:

 

I think it’s fair. 

 

I think you have to acknowledge the coaching dynamic- but that doesn’t excuse him. His inability to obtain the power one needs to succeed is as much of a strike against him as picking the wrong coach would be. When the guy that is supposed to be in charge is willing to be complacent and defer major decisions instead of making the case to his boss for how things need to be— that’s a failure.

 

but I think that it’s hard to argue that outside of qb the marrone/schwartz team had a fantastic 50 other players assembled. Likewise, for as often as we switched scheme- we kept talent levels high.

 

i will always be curious about the discussions about qb (draft and free agency) that happened behind closed doors.

 

Terry is a dope. How could he have obtained power when the regime that hired him lost power, and you have a guy come in who has shown he has no clue with the other franchise in your city.

 

He never got his chance, Terry is a dope.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

once again Marrone and Hackett couldn't hack it against the Cheats.  

 

[Ol Dirty B]

9 hours ago, matter2003 said:

 

In some ways he acquired a lot of good players but that didnt turn us into a good team...sometimes he tried to fit square pegs into round holes.  There is a difference between building a team with a lot of good players and building a good team with players who all fill a certain role well and take pride in playing that role to the best of their ability...

 

I think that is what we are going to see under Beane and McDermott

 

Oh I see... it was Whaley who made the decision to change defensive schemes.

 

It was Whaley who decided we need to go through 3 different OCs in 3 years.

 

He decided, hey I'm gonna build this great defense where the personnel fits then the year after that all comes together I'm gonna run a different one that our front 7 isn't fit for, and we don't have the safeties for.

 

He made every attempt to get rex what he needed but wasn't given long at all to do it.

 

Terry is a dope for hiring rex. Doug Whaley's failures, a lot of them, fall on horrible ownership.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

Just now, ScottLaw said:

It was sarcasm dude.

 

All we heard when McDermott and Beane traded these players was "another Whaley mistake". 

 

Just because McDermott and Beane traded them doesn't make them bad players. It was asinine logic on this board. Which isn't surprising.

 

Never.  Not on the internet!! 

[teef]

10 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

It was sarcasm dude.

 

All we heard when McDermott and Beane traded these players was "another Whaley mistake". 

 

Just because McDermott and Beane traded them doesn't make them bad players. It was asinine logic on this board. Which isn't surprising.

no it wasn't.  i can honestly say i've never heard anyone call guys like watkins or dareus bad players.  if anything, it was more their attitudes that got them shipped out.

 

let's not also forget that just because someone is on a team doing well, it's not necessarily because of them.  i think the pats would still be in the superbowl if guys like hogan, gilmore, and gillislee weren't on the team.  not saying they are bad players, but threads like this can be so over blown.

[ProcessTheTrust]

Imagine how Rams fans felt watching 2 of their former QBs going head-to-head for the NFC. I'm sure their level-headed fans are happy they have Goff but no doubt they have some who are crying "see, we didn't have to trade the farm for Goff. We could have used those picks to get _____, ____, ____, and _______!!!!"

Edited January 22, 2018 by ProcessTheTrust

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

12 hours ago, Bakin said:

Not one to complain about This...but....

was that ever A LOT of former Bills we watched today?

Most of those former Bills players are very good. The one Bills player that we can release that you will never see in the playoffs is Tyrod Taylor.

[Bills Pimpin']

 

14 minutes ago, teef said:

no it wasn't.  i can honestly say i've never heard anyone call guys like watkins or dareus bad players.  if anything, it was more their attitudes that got them shipped out.

 

let's not also forget that just because someone is on a team doing well, it's not necessarily because of them.  i think the pats would still be in the superbowl if guys like hogan, gilmore, and gillislee weren't on the team.  not saying they are bad players, but threads like this can be so over blown.

This. None of those players listed were the reason the teams were playing yesterday or won yesterday except maybe Gilly and personally I think it was an underthrown inaccurate ball by Bortles. And Marrone quit on the Bills because Whaley was a bad GM.

[teef]

1 hour ago, ScottLaw said:

Don't know about that. After the Watkins trade people were arguing Jordan Matthews is a better and more reliable player than Watkins .?

 

I can agree it was their attitudes and salary that got them shipped out. McDermott didn't want to deal with it. 

 

Obviously other teams were willing to deal with those "attitudes" and were not anywhere near a problem to those respective teams.

 

i think that's the problem with having been terrible for so long.  this team lacks any real strong internal structure, and i think they moved on from certain players to help establish a new philosophy from ground up.  

49 minutes ago, Bills Pimpin' said:

 

This. None of those players listed were the reason the teams were playing yesterday or won yesterday except maybe Gilly and personally I think it was an underthrown inaccurate ball by Bortles. And Marrone quit on the Bills because Whaley was a bad GM.

it was a solid knock down, but it was way under thrown by bortles.  i don't think gilmore had a bad game, but my understanding is that his season was pretty average.  marrone is just marrone.    

Edited January 22, 2018 by teef

[nedboy7]

Trust the processed meat. 

[ricojes]

1 hour ago, Bills Pimpin' said:

And Marrone quit on the Bills because Whaley was a bad GM.

If Gilmore doesn't dive and just keeps running, the ball hits him in the helmet.  It was well under thrown, and a TD if it were a Brady throw where he leads the reciever as he had a step on him.

Edited January 22, 2018 by ricojes

[DrDawkinstein]

12 hours ago, Rob's House said:

I was down on Whaley toward the end but I'm starting to think the guy got kind of a raw deal. Granted, he sucked at QB evaluation and made questionable decisions wrt trading up, but it seems he was good at finding position players that worked in the scheme he was scouting for.

 

I never gave him a pass on having coaches thrust upon him because a GM should be accountable for coaching decisions, but with the benefit of hindsight it appears he was a GM in name only and was really just the head of player personnel.

 

I'm not saying we should have kept him, but I think he's better than I and many others gave him credit for.

 

As someone who has come off as a Whaley fanboy, I really appreciate this post as it sums up all I've been trying to say over the past couple of years.

 

Whaley was officially GM for 4 drafts, and in that time dealt with:

3 Head Coaches

3 DCs

3 OCs

And never once had a chance to pick his own coaches.

 

Funny enough, with that all being said and the aid of hindsight being 20/20, I've come around to believe that the Pegulas should have chosen Marrone over Whaley back when DM gave them his power-play ultimatum. And then brought in Coughlin, who was reported to be around the Bills facility anyways, in his current Jags role to run football operations since Terry and Kim are in over there heads there. It would have given us at least 2 more years of coaching stability (assuming Schwartz would've eventually left for a HC gig), and I think that group would have gotten 2-3 more quality years out of Mario Williams, and maybe even turn Dareus around. Oh well...