Per Buffalo Fanatics, Bills actively looking to trade Shaq Lawson

[Jerry Jabber]

I liked Lawson against the run but was disappointed in his pass rush abilities. Hopefully the Bills are able to get a good draft pick in return or do a player swap (like with Indy for Hughes).

[Dr.Sack]

Shaq Lawson sucks.

[Doc Brown]

The 2016 definitely is turning out to be one of the worst ever:

1.)  Shaq Lawson

2.)  Reggie Ragland

3.)  Adolphus Washington

4.)  Cardale Jones

5.)  Jonathan Williams

6.)  Kolby Listenbee, Kevon Seymour

 

Yikes.

Edited January 14, 2018 by Doc Brown

[Buffalo Barbarian]

17 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

The 2016 definitely is turning out to be one of the worst ever:

1.)  Shaq Lawson

2.)  Reggie Ragland

3.)  Adolphus Washington

4.)  Cardale Jones

5.)  Jonathan Williams

6.)  Kolby Listenbee, Kevon Seymour

 

Yikes.

 

Yikes indeed! All bums.

 

 

[reddogblitz]

12 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Good, it's the right move. Injury prone with very little pass rush abilities. Him and Ragland both failed picks by foot fetish. Hopefully we can find a team that needs a run stopping DE.

 

Rags seems to be working out for K .

 

Gotta get rid of those Rex guys I guess. I was surprised he wasn't traded last off season 

[JaCrispy]

5 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

The 2016 definitely is turning out to be one of the worst ever:

1.)  Shaq Lawson

2.)  Reggie Ragland

3.)  Adolphus Washington

4.)  Cardale Jones

5.)  Jonathan Williams

6.)  Kolby Listenbee, Kevon Seymour

 

Yikes.

Certainly ranks up there with the 2010 draft

[Jpsredemption]

Is this even a credible source or do we take anything at face value?

 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

13 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Stupid.  He's cheap and has been healthy. His trade value is nothing and he been solid against the run.  

 

This team needs to stop creating holes and then replacing them.  Of course, everyone will blindly "trust the process" and ignore that the Bills were worse in almost every category besides turnovers.

 

You realize DE has a higher calling than “solid against the run” right?

[GunnerBill]

I was a big Shaq fan coming out. He was the 10th highest graded player on my board but he has played below my expectations. I think you would be looking at a day 3 pick or a similar non impressive former high pick back for him. I think we missed his run d when he went down he does set the edge well and there were 2 or 3 games where he was dominant against the run this year. But I'm willing to suffer someone picked in the mid rounds next year who is a poorer run defender but gives a higher pass rush upside. 

[26CornerBlitz]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

I was a big Shaq fan coming out. He was the 10th highest graded player on my board but he has played below my expectations. I think you would be looking at a day 3 pick or a similar non impressive former high pick back for him. I think we missed his run d when he went down he does set the edge well and there were 2 or 3 games where he was dominant against the run this year. But I'm willing to suffer someone picked in the mid rounds next year who is a poorer run defender but gives a higher pass rush upside. 

 

You must have someone in mind that fits that profile with a chance to contribute immediately as a pass rusher.  If not, then moving him doesn't make sense to me. 

[peterpan]

He wasn't good in college.  Boy I'm glad they fired all our scouts

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

7 hours ago, matter2003 said:

Of course...Whaley drafted him...gotta go.

 

Lets get rid of a useful player who is very good against the run just because...

 

...if that is the criterion for evaluating a player, we have the wrong gang in charge.............

[Magox]

5 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

The 2016 definitely is turning out to be one of the worst ever:

1.)  Shaq Lawson

2.)  Reggie Ragland

3.)  Adolphus Washington

4.)  Cardale Jones

5.)  Jonathan Williams

6.)  Kolby Listenbee, Kevon Seymour

 

Yikes.

 

Wow, that does suck

[GunnerBill]

26 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

You must have someone in mind that fits that profile with a chance to contribute immediately as a pass rusher.  If not, then moving him doesn't make sense to me. 

 

I still have a lot of work to do on the pass rushers this year so I am speaking theoretically at this stage. 

[OldTimer1960]

9 hours ago, Bills Pimpin' said:

Did you watch any games this year? Hughes had a much greater impact on  games, and of course Hughes played twice as many. Asking a value question between the 2 is not too bright. 

 

9 hours ago, Bills Pimpin' said:

Did you watch any games this year? Hughes had a much greater impact on  games, and of course Hughes played twice as many. Asking a value question between the 2 is not too bright. 

 

9 hours ago, Bills Pimpin' said:

Did you watch any games this year? Hughes had a much greater impact on  games, and of course Hughes played twice as many. Asking a value question between the 2 is not too bright. 

I am talking about Hughes' production to salary ratio compared to Lawson's.  I am not suggesting that Lawson was as good as Hughes.

 

BTW, Hughes is interesting in this conversation given that he was a 1st round pick of the Colts who gave up on him too early.  Bet they wish they had him back.

Edited January 14, 2018 by OldTimer1960

[NewEraBills]

7 hours ago, MrEpsYtown said:

This doesn't really pass the smell test. McDermott's defensive ends have always been on the bigger side. Charles Johnson, Mario Addison, Kony Ealy, Greg Hardy, even going back to Philly and Trent Cole, Brandon Graham. All in that 6-3, 265-270 range. Shaq is a good fit, cheap, and played well when he was in there. 

 

 

The biggest difference is those guys also could get to the passer.  Shaq had 4 sacks this year but one was because he didn't get picked up.  The other was because the QB was trying to escape and lawson tripped him up.  I like Shaq, but he hasn't shown much burst and explosiveness as a pass rusher. I think Coach McD prefers guys that are more of a complete package than one dimensional because Ideally, you need the pocket collapsing on both sides and at least one player collapsing the middle.  Compare Hughes, Davis, and Yarborough's first step to Shaq's as a pass rusher and you'll see a huge distinction between the players in that department.

[The Now Moment]

9 hours ago, Mango said:

 

 

I don’t really like this line of thinking. “Bills cut/traded him, he sucks. Do better” 

 

Most of the guys we cut/traded in the last year are starters on playoff teams. It’s not like they leave and are rotational/cut again. 

 

Sammy looking at being franchised.

Woods had a good year.

Darby is playing very well and starting. 

Goodwin had a career year. 

Ragland started in the playoffs. 

 

Cap implications taken into consideration (no Sammy) the Bills would have been a better team this year with Darby, Goodwin, Woods, Ragland, and Seymour on the roster. 

 

This is a really big draft for this FO. We also haven’t done a great job grabbing FA’s with the new FO. (Poyer and Hyde was the previous FO) 

 

This FO came in after free agency had started...they haven't even had a chance to grab anyone through FA.  That's a little ridiculous to say they haven't done a great job grabbing FAs when they haven't had a real chance yet.  Also, you must consider scheme fit when discussing the players above.  Scheme fit is a huge part of it.  Also, most of the players mentioned there had a bunch of injuries when they were here.  You must look at all angles.

[Bills Pimpin']

54 minutes ago, OldTimer1960 said:

 

 

BTW, Hughes is interesting in this conversation given that he was a 1st round pick of the Colts who gave up on him too early.  Bet they wish they had him back.

That's very true oldtimer and a very good point. I think that trade was for Kelvin Sheppard so it's not the same as a draft pick but it turned out very good for the Bills. Maybe I wouldn't trade Lawson for less than a mid-fourth. But if the idea is to stockpile picks to get a QB they love I'm all for trading what I would consider an interchangable player.

58 minutes ago, NewEraBills said:

 

 

The biggest difference is those guys also could get to the passer.  Shaq had 4 sacks this year but one was because he didn't get picked up.  The other was because the QB was trying to escape and lawson tripped him up.  I like Shaq, but he hasn't shown much burst and explosiveness as a pass rusher. I think Coach McD prefers guys that are more of a complete package than one dimensional because Ideally, you need the pocket collapsing on both sides and at least one player collapsing the middle.  Compare Hughes, Davis, and Yarborough's first step to Shaq's as a pass rusher and you'll see a huge distinction between the players in that department.

This is a good post. McD has been talking about versatility all year. Versatile to play different positions and versatility within a position. We have to assume McD and Wauffle have  tried to coach up Lawson on certain techniques and he hasn't been able to pick it up. I'm sure the decision is based on more than we as fans see on Sunday. It's what coaches see throughout the week too.

[Irv]

But he sets the edge so well.  Barf.  

[Dr. K]

9 hours ago, Mango said:

 

 

I don’t really like this line of thinking. “Bills cut/traded him, he sucks. Do better” 

 

Most of the guys we cut/traded in the last year are starters on playoff teams. It’s not like they leave and are rotational/cut again. 

 

Sammy looking at being franchised.

Woods had a good year.

Darby is playing very well and starting. 

Goodwin had a career year. 

Ragland started in the playoffs. 

 

Cap implications taken into consideration (no Sammy) the Bills would have been a better team this year with Darby, Goodwin, Woods, Ragland, and Seymour on the roster. 

 

This is a really big draft for this FO. We also haven’t done a great job grabbing FA’s with the new FO. (Poyer and Hyde was the previous FO) 

 

This. I think McBeane has earned some respect, but I really HATE the way they have shed good players because of their schemes. 

[dave mcbride]

1 hour ago, NewEraBills said:

 

 

The biggest difference is those guys also could get to the passer.  Shaq had 4 sacks this year but one was because he didn't get picked up.  The other was because the QB was trying to escape and lawson tripped him up.  I like Shaq, but he hasn't shown much burst and explosiveness as a pass rusher. I think Coach McD prefers guys that are more of a complete package than one dimensional because Ideally, you need the pocket collapsing on both sides and at least one player collapsing the middle.  Compare Hughes, Davis, and Yarborough's first step to Shaq's as a pass rusher and you'll see a huge distinction between the players in that department.

Absolutely - his sacks are mostly of the vulture variety.

[billsfan2298]

Those are the people who said that Maclin was coming to Buffalo on a one year 7 millions dollar deal. I don't believe a word they say

[BringBackOrton]

Another Whaley gem.

 

Drain that swamp.

[Jay_Fixit]

When he was drafted I was almost as deflated as when they took Manuel.

 

Shaq is whack yo.

[MrEpsYtown]

3 hours ago, NewEraBills said:

 

 

The biggest difference is those guys also could get to the passer.  Shaq had 4 sacks this year but one was because he didn't get picked up.  The other was because the QB was trying to escape and lawson tripped him up.  I like Shaq, but he hasn't shown much burst and explosiveness as a pass rusher. I think Coach McD prefers guys that are more of a complete package than one dimensional because Ideally, you need the pocket collapsing on both sides and at least one player collapsing the middle.  Compare Hughes, Davis, and Yarborough's first step to Shaq's as a pass rusher and you'll see a huge distinction between the players in that department.

 

Good points. I do think it is too early to cut loose on Lawson. I'm not sure if we have seen his full potential yet. I don't think he will ever be a 15 sack guy, but I think he could be a Charles Johnson type giving you 8-12 sacks a year and he seems to be very good at stopping the run. I think we will see our sack numbers skyrocket if we improve the linebacking corps. It is hard to get sacks when the linebackers are too slow to cover the check down. 

[Fan in Chicago]

2 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

 

Good points. I do think it is too early to cut loose on Lawson. I'm not sure if we have seen his full potential yet. I don't think he will ever be a 15 sack guy, but I think he could be a Charles Johnson type giving you 8-12 sacks a year and he seems to be very good at stopping the run. I think we will see our sack numbers skyrocket if we improve the linebacking corps. It is hard to get sacks when the linebackers are too slow to cover the check down. 

I disagree. Lawson had all of this season to show what he could do and it turned out to be not much. A DE has to be able to put pressure on passing downs, as an example. Far too often he was invisible and over two seasons, has not been the most 'available' either. 

I am on board with trying to trade him, but am afraid we will not get much back for him. It will be interesting if he can be part of trade package to move up for a QB in the draft. 

[OldTimer1960]

For sure, they need more pass rush, but I don't think that means you give away a good run defender who at least rushes with effort for a mid-round draft pick.  If they get a 4th for him, they would be doing well just to get an equivalent player with that 4th round pick.

 

If they can get a 3rd, then I might consider it, but I just don't see the reason to jettison Lawson.  He was drafted as a good run-stuffing base end and I think that is what he is.  Nobody thought that he was going to be a dynamic pass rusher.

 

I get the idea of finding "your own players", but I don't think it is likely that they'll ever get a guy that will be the equivalent of Ragland with the pick they got for him.  I'm not saying that Ragland is great, but he did start for KC and they will be very lucky to find a guy who can be even a decent starter with the 4th or 5th round pick that they got for him.

[NewEraBills]

3 hours ago, MrEpsYtown said:

 

Good points. I do think it is too early to cut loose on Lawson. I'm not sure if we have seen his full potential yet. I don't think he will ever be a 15 sack guy, but I think he could be a Charles Johnson type giving you 8-12 sacks a year and he seems to be very good at stopping the run. I think we will see our sack numbers skyrocket if we improve the linebacking corps. It is hard to get sacks when the linebackers are too slow to cover the check down. 

 

 

Ohhh yeah, I agree and I think guys are underselling edge setting.  At the same time though you want a first-round pick to have that burst and not just be an edge setter.  It reminds me of when the Ravens drafted Courtney Upshaw.  He was fantastic in setting the edge in their defense but its' also why they let him test FA eventually because they were looking for a complete package at the position.

[Manther]

On 1/13/2018 at 3:01 PM, Kirby Jackson said:

I wouldn’t sell low on him. I don’t know that he will ever be a top end guy but I think that he can be an 8 sack guy that’s good against the run. There’s no reason to open another hole.

Totally agree

4 hours ago, jmc12290 said:

Another Whaley gem.

 

Drain that swamp.

That was a Rex pick if I have ever seen one

[BuffaloBillsGospel]

It's like our offense pretty much, were a running team in a passing league. Lawson is good at setting the edge for the run game in a passing league, we need a pass rush and Shaq Lawson isn't that guy, will never be that guy.

[OldTimer1960]

25 minutes ago, BuffaloBillsGospel said:

It's like our offense pretty much, were a running team in a passing league. Lawson is good at setting the edge for the run game in a passing league, we need a pass rush and Shaq Lawson isn't that guy, will never be that guy.

I think that is too simplistic of a view.  

 

Hughes is supposed to be the pass rusher and he had the same number of sacks (in more games) as Lawson did.  If you want to point the finger at someone for not doing enough, I’d say Hughes was the one who underachieved.

 

Lawson will never be a dynamic pass rusher, but he can be a solid DE and I don’t think you can get anywhere near even value out of a 4th round pick.

[billrooter]

On 1/13/2018 at 3:09 PM, LABILLBACKER said:

there is no planet where Lawson is ever going to be a 7-8 sack /yr guy. He doesn't have the pass rushing talents or moves. You can obviously see this watching tape. Even his college tape.

   Not saying I have  an opinion either way if he stays or goes, but really? He had four sacks this year after missing 5 games and 2 sacks in his last three games. He is still a young guy and can learn an array of pass rush moves to improve his game but on no planet can he average a measly 7-8 a year? I now hope they keep him after researching his numbers, I think he is an effort guy that only improves going forward.

 

Edited January 15, 2018 by billrooter

[bobobonators]

Geez what a complete waste of a draft we had. 

[BuffaloBillsGospel]

1 hour ago, OldTimer1960 said:

I think that is too simplistic of a view.  

 

Hughes is supposed to be the pass rusher and he had the same number of sacks (in more games) as Lawson did.  If you want to point the finger at someone for not doing enough, I’d say Hughes was the one who underachieved.

 

Lawson will never be a dynamic pass rusher, but he can be a solid DE and I don’t think you can get anywhere near even value out of a 4th round pick.

 

The entire DL underachieved, it's said that Lorenzo Alexander will move to DE next season, not sure if thats any sort of upgrade but it tells me thank goodness we'll be getting a new OLB. Only in Buffalo do we think the defense will fall apart from a guy who had 33 tackles (who's supposed to be excellent against the run) , 1 FF and 4 sacks, that is far from irreplaceable so if we can recoup a 3rd or 4th round pick for him I'd say that was a bargain imo. 

[OldTimer1960]

1 minute ago, BuffaloBillsGospel said:

 

The entire DL underachieved, it's said that Lorenzo Alexander will move to DE next season, not sure if thats any sort of upgrade but it tells me thank goodness we'll be getting a new OLB. Only in Buffalo do we think the defense will fall apart from a guy who had 33 tackles (who's supposed to be excellent against the run) , 1 FF and 4 sacks, that is far from irreplaceable so if we can recoup a 3rd or 4th round pick for him I'd say that was a bargain imo. 

Nobody said the defense the defense woul “fall apart”.  What some are saying is that it is unlikely to get a comparable player to Lawson with a 4th round pick.

[BigDingus]

I feel like we shouldn't get rid of him until we have our full defense settled.

We could've used some of these players on the 53 man roster last year that apparently weren't good enough for our team (Ragland for example). 

[MAJBobby]

Buddy confirms. But says price starts with a 2nd rounder (right now)

[BillsFan130]

16 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

Buddy confirms. But says price starts with a 2nd rounder (right now)

I couldn’t see the Bills getting a 2nd rounder for him. I guess it doesn’t hurt to ask

[NewEraBills]

5 minutes ago, billsfan11 said:

I couldn’t see the Bills getting a 2nd rounder for him. I guess it doesn’t hurt to ask

I mean there's some untapped potential in the guy but I don't see us getting a 2nd.  If we could that would be fantastic.

[BillsFan130]

1 minute ago, NewEraBills said:

I mean there's some untapped potential in the guy but I don't see us getting a 2nd.  If we could that would be fantastic.

Agreed. A mid to late third seems more realistic