Per Buffalo Fanatics, Bills actively looking to trade Shaq Lawson

[YoloinOhio]

Just now, Heitz said:

From the same source:

 

ScoutFantasy

Tune in tomorrow morning (7-9am eastern) on @SiriusXMFantasy and listen to @DrRoto and @AdamRonis for more details on the upcoming @BuffaloBills breaking player news.

[hemma]

If Frazier says 'dump him', then do it.  You need to trust your coaches on these evals.

[LEBills]

17 minutes ago, Heitz said:

From the same source:

 

ScoutFantasy

Tune in tomorrow morning (7-9am eastern) on @SiriusXMFantasy and listen to @DrRoto and @AdamRonis for more details on the upcoming @BuffaloBills breaking player news.

 

 

Guess I’ll have to tune into Sirius tomorrow AM! ?

If the “major player news” is breaking next week, then how are there details tomorrow?

 

El Paso...I spent a month there one night.

[Thurman#1]

On 1/14/2018 at 5:04 AM, McBean said:

Good if true.

 

Another Whaley bust.

 

 

This early in his career it wouldn't be a bust. It'd be another casualty of the scheme switch.

[KDIGGZ]

2 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

This early in his career it wouldn't be a bust. It'd be another casualty of the scheme switch.

Shaq was a 4-3 DE. He actually fits better in the current scheme than he did in a 3-4. It's more about the player underperforming and being outplayed by UDFA's.

 

Not sure if mentioned but Shaq isn't listed on the team's official depth chart on BuffaloBills.com so he is as good as gone. 

[Buffalo716]

3 minutes ago, kdiggz said:

Shaq was a 4-3 DE. He actually fits better in the current scheme than he did in a 3-4. It's more about the player underperforming and being outplayed by UDFA's.

 

Not sure if mentioned but Shaq isn't listed on the team's official depth chart on BuffaloBills.com so he is as good as gone. 

 

He isnt on the website because he is hurt buddy

 

Glenn isn't on it either or Matthews 

Edited January 26, 2018 by Buffalo716

[KDIGGZ]

Just now, Buffalo716 said:

 

He isnt on the website because he is hurt bud.

 

Glenn isn't on it either or Matthews 

The webmaster is Dunkirk Don's inside source. Connect the dots!

[Thurman#1]

T.O.'s un-retiring. He and Anquan Boldin are coming!!!

[Hapless Bills Fan]

On 1/14/2018 at 12:01 AM, Mango said:

 

 

Quote

I don’t really like this line of thinking. “Bills cut/traded him, he sucks. Do better” 

 

Most of the guys we cut/traded in the last year are starters on playoff teams. It’s not like they leave and are rotational/cut again.

 

Yes This, the Man speaks truth.

 

I get it - there was a time not too long ago when, as Steve Tasker quipped, "the Bills kept some players they'd probably rather have cut", and when we did cut someone, they sank out of sight.  Very few of our players were able to be traded.

 

That's been changed for a good few though.  The issue with not having many of our draftees stick, is primarily an issue of coaching and scheme change, not lack of NFL abilities.

 

I hope we draft as well, though of course I'll take "better".  But the main issue is to stop the continual scheme change that renders draftees less valuable.

1 hour ago, PIZ said:

Trades can't happen now can they?

 

No.  Though I think teams can talk and agree on a handshake.  I could be wrong.

Edited January 26, 2018 by Hapless Bills Fan

[Thurman#1]

6 hours ago, kdiggz said:

Shaq was a 4-3 DE. He actually fits better in the current scheme than he did in a 3-4. It's more about the player underperforming and being outplayed by UDFA's.

 

Not sure if mentioned but Shaq isn't listed on the team's official depth chart on BuffaloBills.com so he is as good as gone. 

 

 

Nobody is on the depth chart, not a single name. It says, "To be announced later."

 

http://www.buffalobills.com/team/depth-chart.html

 

Shaq is on the roster. But he's on the part at the bottom headlined "Reserve/Injured."

 

http://www.buffalobills.com/team/roster.html

 

And not all 4-3s are created equal. He fitted Rex's D (not a 3-4, the 46 is a bit wackier than the 3-4) very well, which is why Rex jumped up and down on the table for him. As for being outplayed, the evidence belies that. He was placed on IR in early December after an ankle injury against the Pats. At that time, his snaps per game were well above anyone else they had at that position, well above.

 

He might be gone soon, but if so it'll be because he didn't fit well so waiting for him to develop didn't make sense.

Edited January 26, 2018 by Thurman#1

[Pbomb]

8 hours ago, PIZ said:

Trades can't happen now can they?

They can be agreed upon but nothing becomes official til the new league year. So there would be no way they announce a trade over a month before it can happen, would leave to much time for things to change.

I think the mccoy- alonso trade was a couple days before the new league year, dont remember exactly 

[GunnerBill]

9 minutes ago, Pbomb said:

 

I think the mccoy- alonso trade was a couple days before the new league year, dont remember exactly 

 

It definitely was.  

[YoloinOhio]

33 minutes ago, Pbomb said:

They can be agreed upon but nothing becomes official til the new league year. So there would be no way they announce a trade over a month before it can happen, would leave to much time for things to change.

I think the mccoy- alonso trade was a couple days before the new league year, dont remember exactly 

It was in late February I believe. It was leaked to rapaport by kiko’s Agent. Chip was pissed at the Bills because he blamed them for letting it get out and didn’t have time to call Shady, and he found out on twitter.  the paperwork couldn’t officially go through until later but it was leaked anyway. 

Edited January 26, 2018 by YoloinOhio

[PIZ]

44 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

It was in late February I believe. It was leaked to rapaport by kiko’s Agent. Chip was pissed at the Bills because he blamed them for letting it get out and didn’t have time to call Shady, and he found out on twitter.  the paperwork couldn’t officially go through until later but it was leaked anyway. 

 

March 3.

 

Eagles, Bills to swap LeSean McCoy for Kiko Alonso

Chris Wesseling

• Around the NFL Writer
• Published: March 3, 2015 at 06:45 p.m.
• Updated: March 4, 2015 at 05:10 p.m.

 

[jrober38]

Whaley was such a horrible GM.

[JohnC]

On ‎1‎/‎13‎/‎2018 at 3:10 PM, Alphadawg7 said:

I would think after selling low on Rag's and seeing go on to be a solid contributing player for KC despite not having the benefit of having time in the system and having to learn his 3rd defensive scheme in 3 years, that it would give them more patience with Shaq.

 

Personally, I get he hasn't cemented his spot here, but I also think he has shown promise and is already on the team, so why sell low now due to injuries and create yet another hole to fill.  Lets keep in mind, lots of people here want us to trade a bounty of picks for a QB, but we created some sizable holes through trades that we haven't filled to go along with holes that already existed.  If we keep trading players for crap shoot draft picks, its going to be tough to improve because we are just drafting to replace rather fill the rest of the roster out.  

 

We already know we have a big need at DT, and if Kyle retires or isn't brought back, we have immediate 2 spots to fill.  Add in big needs at LB, OL, and the looming QB situation and we just cant fill all these effectively in the draft and FA.  Not to mention potential holes at DB with Gaines FA looming, needing another RB and WR.  

 

I vote no to this and play the upside here and avoid creating yet another hole.  

I'm just responding to your Ragland comment and not to your Lawson position because I agree with it. The Ragland trade is easy to understand because there was no way for Ragland to be suitable for the McDermott defense. This same process also occurred in the defensive backfield where players were brought in who were more suitable for a zone scheme as opposed to Rex's more man scheme. The Ragland trade is an understandable deal for the Bills and a good deal for KC. McDermott's defense required LBs to cover. Ragland is a thumper who plays the run but can't cover in passing situations. The Ragland scenario happens when there is a churning of coaches and systems. Players that are suitable for one system are not suitable for another.

 

The past is the ugly past. Hopefully,  McDermontt and the front office are more in sync so this once turbulent organization becomes more stable and makes more coherent personnel decisions. The cycle of one step forward and two steps back has crushed this franchise. I'm expecting that foolishness to stop now.   

[YoloinOhio]

1 hour ago, PIZ said:

 

March 3.

 

Eagles, Bills to swap LeSean McCoy for Kiko Alonso

 

Chris Wesseling

• Around the NFL Writer
• Published: March 3, 2015 at 06:45 p.m.
• Updated: March 4, 2015 at 05:10 p.m.

 

Oh my bad. Thought it was late feb

[SoCal Deek]

Fabulous! Another Bills top draft pick slips into the abyss of franchise trivia oblivion. 

[D521646]

I don't buying this story at all.  Shaq has unique skills at what he does bets and that is setting the strong-side edge on the run, and contain on the weak side, he does this very well and I think grading him compared to other run stopping DE's in the NFL, I'd rank him pretty high, maybe even top ten.  What he does not do well, and was drafted and advertised was as a pass rushing DE, this he is not.  His "get-off" is too slow, he tends to lean in, rather than using his hands on passing downs, so in that regard, he was mischaracterized by Whaley and Rex.  Maybe they knew, or maybe they just over drafted a guy hoping he would transition better in the NFL with a little coaching, (Not sure GM's ever think that someone's college tape will translate to something different at the NFL level, but I digress), but the overall point of Shaq's game is that he is a solid NFL starter at setting the edge on 1st, 2nd down.  Does that increase his trade value?  Probably not, as those guys can be found on day two and three of the draft.

 

I think McD is well aware of what Shaq brings to the table, and he is valued for these reasons.  I don't see them shopping him at all, but I also suspect that they will entertain offers if they are made.  You need guys like him on your defense in today's NFL, plain and simple.  Kicking him inside is not his game, and I suspect no one at OBD is even entertaining that idea.  He's solid, cheap, and fills a much needed role on any defense, I doubt very much he's going anywhere, this off-season, but I could be wrong, who knows, right?

 

 

Tim-

[JohnC]

5 minutes ago, D521646 said:

I don't buying this story at all.  Shaq has unique skills at what he does bets and that is setting the strong-side edge on the run, and contain on the weak side, he does this very well and I think grading him compared to other run stopping DE's in the NFL, I'd rank him pretty high, maybe even top ten.  What he does not do well, and was drafted and advertised was as a pass rushing DE, this he is not.  His "get-off" is too slow, he tends to lean in, rather than using his hands on passing downs, so in that regard, he was mischaracterized by Whaley and Rex.  Maybe they knew, or maybe they just over drafted a guy hoping he would transition better in the NFL with a little coaching, (Not sure GM's ever think that someone's college tape will translate to something different at the NFL level, but I digress), but the overall point of Shaq's game is that he is a solid NFL starter at setting the edge on 1st, 2nd down.  Does that increase his trade value?  Probably not, as those guys can be found on day two and three of the draft.

 

I think McD is well aware of what Shaq brings to the table, and he is valued for these reasons.  I don't see them shopping him at all, but I also suspect that they will entertain offers if they are made.  You need guys like him on your defense in today's NFL, plain and simple.  Kicking him inside is not his game, and I suspect no one at OBD is even entertaining that idea.  He's solid, cheap, and fills a much needed role on any defense, I doubt very much he's going anywhere, this off-season, but I could be wrong, who knows, right?

 

 

Tim-

Excellent post and analysis. What you are basically saying is that he is your typical jag (just another guy). That's a fair assessment. However, when you consider that he was a first round pick and what he appears to be is your standard interchangeable player. At best he is a solid player, and at worse he is an inconsequential player who can be replaced by another inconsequential player without a trace of difference. 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

9 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Excellent post and analysis. What you are basically saying is that he is your typical jag (just another guy). That's a fair assessment. However, when you consider that he was a first round pick and what he appears to be is your standard interchangeable player. At best he is a solid player, and at worse he is an inconsequential player who can be replaced by another inconsequential player without a trace of difference. 

 

If he's a JAG, then the value has to be decent coming back.  I believe his cap hit is the same whether we keep him or trade him (base salaries would be paid by the new team).  

[D521646]

5 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Excellent post and analysis. What you are basically saying is that he is your typical jag (just another guy). That's a fair assessment. However, when you consider that he was a first round pick and what he appears to be is your standard interchangeable player. At best he is a solid player, and at worse he is an inconsequential player who can be replaced by another inconsequential player without a trace of difference. 

 

 

Yeah of course he can be replaced, and although his role as a run stopping DE is coveted by DC's in the NFL, they're not shiny things that fans love to see.  Fans don't, as a general rule, and evidenced in this very thread, covet role type players, even if they are very good at their particular role.  I think what most fans at TSW think is that he was over-drafted, which, for the most part is entirely true, but it doesn't disparage his role on the team now, or in the future.  Coaches don't care about whether a guy was taken too early, only that they fill a need, and are good at it.  His ball awareness is also very good, in fact, I'm not sure I can point to a bad game he's had this year?  Again, solid contributor, not shiny, guys of his skill-set can be found later in most drafts, but we have him, we paid a 1st for him, and hindsight is always 20/20.  It's not enough to move on from him, and whether he was another regimes pick is pointless.  As already stated in this thread, coaches don't care about who drafted a player, only that he is a player, and plays well within the spectrum of the defense scheme.  Shaq does that, and I think McD knows it!

 

Tim-

[JohnC]

2 minutes ago, D521646 said:

 

 

Yeah of course he can be replaced, and although his role as a run stopping DE is coveted by DC's in the NFL, they're not shiny things that fans love to see.  Fans don't, as a general rule, and evidenced in this very thread, covet role type players, even if they are very good at their particular role.  I think what most fans at TSW think is that he was over-drafted, which, for the most part is entirely true, but it doesn't disparage his role on the team now, or in the future.  Coaches don't care about whether a guy was taken too early, only that they fill a need, and are good at it.  His ball awareness is also very good, in fact, I'm not sure I can point to a bad game he's had this year?  Again, solid contributor, not shiny, guys of his skill-set can be found later in most drafts, but we have him, we paid a 1st for him, and hindsight is always 20/20.  It's not enough to move on from him, and whether he was another regimes pick is pointless.  As already stated in this thread, coaches don't care about who drafted a player, only that he is a player, and plays well within the spectrum of the defense scheme.  Shaq does that, and I think McD knows it!

 

Tim-

I'm not disparaging his role. Far from it. The point is that what he does can be done by many other players. There is little that is unique about his game where you would say that if he was not on the field that it would be a noticeable loss. You can't say that about Hughes or Kyle Williams. Right now I would consider him a solid player. Does he have more upside? My sense is that there isn't much more to tap into. From a value standpoint relative to his draft position it is disappointing. Even you agreed with that judgment. 

 

 

[H2o]

10 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I'm not disparaging his role. Far from it. The point is that what he does can be done by many other players. There is little that is unique about his game where you would say that if he was not on the field that it would be a noticeable loss. You can't say that about Hughes or Kyle Williams. Right now I would consider him a solid player. Does he have more upside? My sense is that there isn't much more to tap into. From a value standpoint relative to his draft position it is disappointing. Even you agreed with that judgment. 

 

 

Our present version Chris Kelsay. 

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

On 1/13/2018 at 2:04 PM, McBean said:

Good if true.

 

Another Whaley bust.

As much as I dislike Whaley I think that draft was all Rex Ryan. Tyrod Taylor being here is 100% Rex Ryan.

[JohnC]

1 minute ago, H2o said:

Our present version Chris Kelsay. 

That is an excellent comparison. A solid player with longevity. 

[Mat68]

Lawson was not worth his position where he was drafted, add in he had bad shoulder it is really a baffling selection.  I think Beane would move him if a better pass rusher was brought in during Fa.  He is a fine 1st down 2 down DE, I would expect him to be sub out and Lorax subed in on third downs.  Whaley was a very good pro personal guy.  I dont think he ever meshed with what his coaches wanted in terms of college athletes.  

[N.Y. Orangeman]

I would hate to give up on this kid.  Would be foolish given our depth on the DL unless we get a 2nd day pick (unlikely).

[John from Riverside]

I still feel that it is too early to give up on Shaq.......he does do some good things on the field.  His rookie contract makes him very managable.

 

They need to get a guy who is a straight pass rush freak and platoon the two of them together.

 

 

John H.

[ndirish1978]

I don't get trading players on their rookie contracts who haven't played a full season. This is the definition of selling low.  

[liverpoolkev]

You might have to look at the coaching staff    in particular D-line coach .....The players are doing more than fine ( for those trying to complain about Whaley ) everywhere else.  Everyone on the RAMS was happy he was gone.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

On 1/13/2018 at 3:04 PM, McBean said:

Good if true.

 

Another Whaley bust.

 

This one has Wrex written all over it. But before declaring bust, I’m more inclined to go with victim of scheme transition a la Darby 

[OldTimer1960]

6 hours ago, JohnC said:

Excellent post and analysis. What you are basically saying is that he is your typical jag (just another guy). That's a fair assessment. However, when you consider that he was a first round pick and what he appears to be is your standard interchangeable player. At best he is a solid player, and at worse he is an inconsequential player who can be replaced by another inconsequential player without a trace of difference. 

This is the Chris Kelsey syndrome.  Kelsey actually had a good NFL career and did what he was expected to do.  He was good against the run and would get some sacks.  

 

Still, he was reviled here by “fans” who lamented that he wasn’t getting 10 sacks a year.  Look around the league at left defensive ends.  They are mostly good against the run and are try-hard pass rushers.  This is EXACTLY why offensive RTs are valued lower than LTs.

 

 

5 hours ago, John from Hemet said:

I still feel that it is too early to give up on Shaq.......he does do some good things on the field.  His rookie contract makes him very managable.

 

They need to get a guy who is a straight pass rush freak and platoon the two of them together.

 

 

John H.

+1

6 hours ago, Mat68 said:

Lawson was not worth his position where he was drafted, add in he had bad shoulder it is really a baffling selection.  I think Beane would move him if a better pass rusher was brought in during Fa.  He is a fine 1st down 2 down DE, I would expect him to be sub out and Lorax subed in on third downs.  Whaley was a very good pro personal guy.  I dont think he ever meshed with what his coaches wanted in terms of college athletes.  

Do you think they will likely find a “fine 1st down2nd down DE” with the 4th round pick they might get in a fire sale for him?

[JohnC]

1 minute ago, OldTimer1960 said:

This is the Chris Kelsey syndrome.  Kelsey actually had a good NFL career and did what he was expected to do.  He was good against the run and would get some sacks.  

 

Still, he was reviled here by “fans” who lamented that he wasn’t getting 10 sacks a year.  Look around the league at left defensive ends.  They are mostly good against the run and are try-hard pass rushers.  This is EXACTLY why offensive RTs are valued lower than LTs.

 

 

I agree with you that Chris Kelsey had a good career. He was a solid player who played within his talents.  However, different defensive systems have different requirements. With the McDermott and even the Schwartz systems pressure is mostly applied by the linemen without much reliance on the blitz. I am not and have never been harshly critical of Lawson. But what I am not going to do is inflate his importance as a defensive player. In my view he is a responsible player as a DE but he is not close to being an impactful player. The difference for the defense when he played compared to when he didn't play was not evident to me. This is just my opinion but I don't see him as being a McDermott type of lineman. 

[Fadingpain]

11 hours ago, PIZ said:

 

March 3.

 

Eagles, Bills to swap LeSean McCoy for Kiko Alonso

 

Chris Wesseling

• Around the NFL Writer
• Published: March 3, 2015 at 06:45 p.m.
• Updated: March 4, 2015 at 05:10 p.m.

 

I "broke" that story at this forum (got a thread up announcing the news seconds after it was formally announced) and the immediate overall reaction here was "Is this a joke?  This can't be true?  Is this true?  I hate this deal!"

 

[artmalibu]

Who gives a crap that he was a first round pick!!!   That pick is coming up on 3 drafts ago.  Any moves need to be done to make the team better.  Considering he is currently a starter on this team it would require a lot in return to make it worth while.  I wouldnt want to take the chance on replacing him with a 3rd or 4th round pick.  Not to mention even if traded he would carry way too much dead money to make it worth while.   The only trade situation I see as worth while is for another current NFL player.  

 

It seems like too many are more caught up on the round he was drafted in 3 years ago than fielding at good team in 2018.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

17 hours ago, artmalibu said:

Who gives a crap that he was a first round pick!!!   That pick is coming up on 3 drafts ago.  Any moves need to be done to make the team better.  Considering he is currently a starter on this team it would require a lot in return to make it worth while.  I wouldnt want to take the chance on replacing him with a 3rd or 4th round pick.  Not to mention even if traded he would carry way too much dead money to make it worth while.   The only trade situation I see as worth while is for another current NFL player.  

 

It seems like too many are more caught up on the round he was drafted in 3 years ago than fielding at good team in 2018.

 

Art you’re confusing being a starter with being good.

[danc]

19 hours ago, OldTimer1960 said:

This is the Chris Kelsey syndrome.  Kelsey actually had a good NFL career and did what he was expected to do.  He was good against the run and would get some sacks.  

 

Still, he was reviled here by “fans” who lamented that he wasn’t getting 10 sacks a year.  Look around the league at left defensive ends.  They are mostly good against the run and are try-hard pass rushers.  This is EXACTLY why offensive RTs are valued lower than LTs.

 

 

+1

Do you think they will likely find a “fine 1st down2nd down DE” with the 4th round pick they might get in a fire sale for him?

Even if you could get an identical player with a 4th, why, bother.  Give him another year and see what happens.  Our draft scouts will be busy enough evaluating talent for the picks we do have. Why divert scouting focus to find a replacement for a player we already have.

[3rdand12]

48 minutes ago, joesixpack said:

 

Art you’re confusing being a starter with being good.

then what kind of trade value does he have ?

 He would be fine depth and cheap for another year or two, see if the light comes on.

 I still struggle in trading Ragland. he may not have been the ideal fit but he had/has upside

[frostbitmic]

I don't see any reason to create yet another hole and trade him at this point. If he happens to get beat out by Yarborough or Davis so be it, then they can trade him before the trade deadline and get a player to fill in this year or get something for him in the 2019 draft.

 

Not every player is an instant gratification type player, maybe in his 2nd year in the McD/Frazier defense he'll improve quite a bit. I'd give him the benefit of the doubt, but that's just me.