Playing Tyrod is flat out stupid

[billsintaiwan]

Assuming arguendo that the injury clause is real, it is simply irresponsible. Why the team would agree to said clause is unfathomable.

 

I really do not understand the machinations of the front office, but if I am Whaley or Pegula I tell Rex to sit Tyrod or look for a new job. If need be, do not activate him.

[Maury Ballstein]

They should have sat him after the Ravens game.

 

Unleash Cardale !!

[BillsFanForever19]

Totally agree. It's the dumbest risk i've seen the team make. I've always been behind Rex. But this is the tipping point for me. After seeing the injury clause - hearing Rex say they're staying with him made me say "he has to go" for the first time.

[BarleyNY]

While I'd be looking at Cardale (if he is at all ready to step on the field) I do understand why they're playing TT. They are still (barely) mathematically alive for the playoffs and Rex might rightfully think that a loss to the Browns would seal his fate. The top of the organization has to agree that seeing Cardale play is worth 3 straight losses to end the season and that TT isn't going to be back next season before the move is made because once Taylor is benched he's never stepping on the field as a Bill again. That's a tough decision to reach while playoffs are still technically possible. Then there's the fact that Cardale come into the league this season as a highly talented, but extremely raw player. There's a good chance he's nowhere near ready.

[jr1]

Cardale is only 2 years younger than Tyrod

[Wayne Cubed]

Cardale is only 2 years younger than Tyrod

 

3 years younger...

[OhDozeBills]

Assuming arguendo that the injury clause is real, it is simply irresponsible. Why the team would agree to said clause is unfathomable.

 

I really do not understand the machinations of the front office, but if I am Whaley or Pegula I tell Rex to sit Tyrod or look for a new job. If need be, do not activate him.

Why would you sit the QB who gives them the best chance to win now when they aren't eliminated from the playoffs yet? Yeah it's a very small chance but if you look at the schedules and with Tanny going down in Miami it's not impossible. Once they are eliminated I could see giving Cardalle a shot just to give him some game experience and see how he does.

[MDH]

3 years younger...

I never realized he was 24 years old. The Bills must have the three oldest "project" QBs in the league.

Why would you sit the QB who gives them the best chance to win now when they aren't eliminated from the playoffs yet? Yeah it's a very small chance but if you look at the schedules and with Tanny going down in Miami it's not impossible. Once they are eliminated I could see giving Cardalle a shot just to give him some game experience and see how he does.

If Miami loses to the Jets on Saturday I agree. If they win, and the Bills are eliminated, theres no reason to play him.

[TPS]

Why would you sit the QB who gives them the best chance to win now when they aren't eliminated from the playoffs yet? Yeah it's a very small chance but if you look at the schedules and with Tanny going down in Miami it's not impossible. Once they are eliminated I could see giving Cardalle a shot just to give him some game experience and see how he does.

Not to mention the impact it would have on future contracts and signings...

[dpberr]

I wouldn't be shocked to see Tyrod play out the season.

 

Pegulas are extending professional courtesy - I think they will let Ryan coach out the season and Taylor play out the season. IMO, that's an order passed down from high command, regardless of wins and losses. He won't want them on the Bills but he also wouldn't want to screw either man out of opportunities going forward by firing Ryan in-season or benching Taylor. Play out the season and you don't have that hanging over your head.

 

I'm convinced that if Whaley has any pull left at all, you would see CJ this Sunday, not Taylor.

[MAJBobby]

Assuming arguendo that the injury clause is real, it is simply irresponsible. Why the team would agree to said clause is unfathomable.

 

I really do not understand the machinations of the front office, but if I am Whaley or Pegula I tell Rex to sit Tyrod or look for a new job. If need be, do not activate him.

Rex is coaching for his job. He is not sitting his QB. Only way TT gets benched is if Rex gets fired.

[4merper4mer]

I think there are a lot of assumptions going on here:

 

1. That Rex will be fired and Tyrod cut

2. That the injury clause thing is a fact.

3. That Tyrod would somehow be motivated to get hurt.

 

# 3 is something that I doubt too many people think. For all the criticism he has received, I haven't noticed even one poster that doesn't personally like TT and think of him as a stand up guy. Personally I don't think #3 is a consideration at all.

 

Although #1 is, sadly, at least possibly true, we are still technically alive. Wade took a lot of crap for saying something stupid about being out of it. Now even the fan base wants a white flag? When we play Cleveland? Common man.

 

i have no idea about #2 but if it is true, I'm sure there are a lot of details and that all of the rumors about the content are just that, rumors. Obviously anybody can get hurt on any play but to assume he is going to get hurt seems weird. If you're going to sit him you have to make him inactive or at best emergency QB. If you inactivate him you might as well cut him. He doesn't deserve that in any way quite frankly and I don't think players around the league....potential FAs....or even guys on our team would view that very favorably. Even if TT and Rex are gone, why leave the players that are staying with a bad taste in their mouth?

[GoBills808]

I think there are a lot of assumptions going on here:

 

1. That Rex will be fired and Tyrod cut

2. That the injury clause thing is a fact.

3. That Tyrod would somehow be motivated to get hurt.

 

# 3 is something that I doubt too many people think. For all the criticism he has received, I haven't noticed even one poster that doesn't personally like TT and think of him as a stand up guy. Personally I don't think #3 is a consideration at all.

 

Although #1 is, sadly, at least possibly true, we are still technically alive. Wade took a lot of crap for saying something stupid about being out of it. Now even the fan base wants a white flag? When we play Cleveland? Common man.

 

i have no idea about #2 but if it is true, I'm sure there are a lot of details and that all of the rumors about the content are just that, rumors. Obviously anybody can get hurt on any play but to assume he is going to get hurt seems weird. If you're going to sit him you have to make him inactive or at best emergency QB. If you inactivate him you might as well cut him. He doesn't deserve that in any way quite frankly and I don't think players around the league....potential FAs....or even guys on our team would view that very favorably. Even if TT and Rex are gone, why leave the players that are staying with a bad taste in their mouth?

I think it's a thing...

 

https://mobile.twitter.com/mikerodak/status/808359567226650625/photo/1

[Herb62]

I think I'm done with them for the year, you guys have fun "out".

[NoSaint]

I wouldn't be shocked to see Tyrod play out the season.

 

Pegulas are extending professional courtesy - I think they will let Ryan coach out the season and Taylor play out the season. IMO, that's an order passed down from high command, regardless of wins and losses. He won't want them on the Bills but he also wouldn't want to screw either man out of opportunities going forward by firing Ryan in-season or benching Taylor. Play out the season and you don't have that hanging over your head.

 

I'm convinced that if Whaley has any pull left at all, you would see CJ this Sunday, not Taylor.

if the pegulas step in to have TT play out the season even after elimination, we should not be happy as fans. its the wrong choice for the franchise, regardless of what you think of TT

Rex is coaching for his job. He is not sitting his QB. Only way TT gets benched is if Rex gets fired.

if the powers that be are actually skilled at their own jobs, part of evaluating rex and his job should be knowing the situation here. if they fired him because CJ or EJ flop but would have kept him with TT wins.... well.... again we are in for a long bad stretch as fans.

[Nihilarian]

It makes no sense to bench Tyrod. What does make sense is benching Ryan's defense!

 

Believe it or not, there is still a slight chance the 2016 Buffalo Bills make the playoffs. The Bills haven't beaten a winning QB all season and yet face three scrubs in the next three weeks. So, Bills fans should rejoice that the team will finish 9-7 and the Rex Ryan fans will be doing backflips.

 

The Bills probably keep the Ryan Bros should the Bills finish 9-7.

[MarkyMannn]

Totally agree. It's the dumbest risk i've seen the team make. I've always been behind Rex. But this is the tipping point for me. After seeing the injury clause - hearing Rex say they're staying with him made me say "he has to go" for the first time.

The injury clause is more on Whaley. You can't blame Rex for everything

[Maury Ballstein]

It makes no sense to bench Tyrod. What does make sense is benching Ryan's defense!

 

At what point will the apologists give up on the 32nd ranked passing game.

 

He's bad dude.

[Reed83HOF]

Sawyer Carter Jacobs ‏@SawyerFeels 3h3 hours ago

@pawlikIII @jchenelly r u sayn the brass sit TT? start EJ and after eventual collapse bring in CJ?! I will assume so unless told otherwise.

Joe Chenelly ‏@jchenelly 2h2 hours ago

@SawyerFeels @pawlikIII I don't think EJ is in play anymore. Feel free to assume what you want, but it is rarely advisable.

1 reply0 retweets0 likes

Reply

[Peevo]

I think this is a symptom of a greater problem.

 

The Bills will never say, but I'd bet good money Russ Brandon gave Doug Marrone the "out" clause in his deal at the tail end of the 2014 season.

 

I'd bet good money he gave Tyrod the "play 50% of the snaps in 2015 and we void year 3 of your deal" clause in Tyrod's original contract signed just two summers ago.

 

These are major, serious problems folks. They're just not team-friendly clauses. You gave an unproven, .500 college head coach an OUT clause in his contract? Doug, here's your deal, you want to coach an NFL team or not? That should be how this is done.

 

Tyrod Taylor, "here's your deal, you want a chance to start in this league or not?" If his agent wouldn't sign with Buffalo unless this ridiculously damaging, seriously flawed idea was put into his contract language, if I'm Doug Whaley, I'm hanging up the phone and going elsewhere.

 

No where, anywhere, should a team looking for unproven talent give this much away to the unproven talent. It's just not smart. No foresight. Protect yourself, Russ. If that clause never exists, Tyrod's gone after this year and it doesn't hurt the Bills's future. Or they keep him one more season and then figure it out. It gives them flexibility, leverage. I'm a pro labor guy, when dealing in reality. But pro sports is not reality, and the balance of power has swung far too much in the player's direction.

 

Who ever decides these things needs not be employed at One Bills Drive anymore.

Edited December 14, 2016 by Peevo

[CodeMonkey]

Unleash Cardale !!

From what I hear, Cardale cannot even read a defense yet and has had zero practice reps with the 53, he has been only running the practice squad mimicking the next opposing QB.

Not even close to being ready to play, even against the Browns.

 

Should play EJ simply because of the injury clause with TT. Plus it gives EJ a little film where he should do well to try and land a job next season.

Edited December 14, 2016 by CodeMonkey

[Beef Jerky]

From what I hear, Cardale cannot even read a defense yet and has had zero practice reps with the 53, he has been only running the practice squad mimicking the next opposing QB.

Not even close to being ready to play, even against the Browns.

 

Should play EJ simply because of the injury clause with TT. Plus it gives EJa little film where he should do well to try and land a job next season.

Blah, blah, blah. You learn while playing.

[CodeMonkey]

It makes no sense to bench Tyrod. What does make sense is benching Ryan's defense!

 

Believe it or not, there is still a slight chance the 2016 Buffalo Bills make the playoffs. The Bills haven't beaten a winning QB all season and yet face three scrubs in the next three weeks. So, Bills fans should rejoice that the team will finish 9-7 and the Rex Ryan fans will be doing backflips.

 

The Bills probably keep the Ryan Bros should the Bills finish 9-7.

It makes a lot of sense if you look past this season.

Say what you want about the Bills still being "in the hunt", but they aren't. Plus after this weekend win or lose their playoff chances should be zero, at least one of the magic "what ifs" is likely to drop. And, last but not least, the Bills should be able to win with anyone under center. Just hand off to Shady/Mike G. all day.

 

It actually makes no sense, IMO, to play TT Sunday. In fact, it's quite stupid to play him. Which is probably why Rex and the Bills will do it.

Edited December 14, 2016 by CodeMonkey

[Rico]

Sawyer Carter Jacobs ‏@SawyerFeels 3h3 hours ago

 

@pawlikIII @jchenelly r u sayn the brass sit TT? start EJ and after eventual collapse bring in CJ?! I will assume so unless told otherwise.

 

Joe Chenelly ‏@jchenelly 2h2 hours ago

@SawyerFeels @pawlikIII I don't think EJ is in play anymore. Feel free to assume what you want, but it is rarely advisable.

1 reply0 retweets0 likes

 

 

Reply

Yep. If his other tweet about the inactive list this weekend will be telling plays out, I believe EJ goes to inactive with Cardale backing TT. Then, if you want to pull TT over his performance, Cardale goes in and you see what he can do under a lot less pressure than if he was starting.

[CodeMonkey]

Yep. If his other tweet about the inactive list this weekend will be telling plays out, I believe EJ goes to inactive with Cardale backing TT. Then, if you want to pull TT over his performance, Cardale goes in and you see what he can do under a lot less pressure than if he was starting.

That scenario makes such little sense to me that it must be true

[Chandler#81]

The OP is flat-out entitled to his opinion. even if it has no merit.

[ddaryl]

Why would you sit the QB who gives them the best chance to win now when they aren't eliminated from the playoffs yet? Yeah it's a very small chance but if you look at the schedules and with Tanny going down in Miami it's not impossible. Once they are eliminated I could see giving Cardalle a shot just to give him some game experience and see how he does.

 

 

This team is not going to make it to he superbowl and making the playoffs means nothing to me if we aren't' a real team and we are not.

 

TT gets injured we are stuck with his salary cap hit which will ensure we don't see the playoffs for another 3 to 5 years

 

The injury clause is more on Whaley. You can't blame Rex for everything

 

 

Whaley doesn't do the contracts.. Overdork does

Edited December 14, 2016 by ddaryl

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

From what I hear, Cardale cannot even read a defense yet and has had zero practice reps with the 53, he has been only running the practice squad mimicking the next opposing QB.

Not even close to being ready to play, even against the Browns.

 

Should play EJ simply because of the injury clause with TT. Plus it gives EJ a little film where he should do well to try and land a job next season.

And we should care about this because?

[Thurman#1]

While I'd be looking at Cardale (if he is at all ready to step on the field) I do understand why they're playing TT. They are still (barely) mathematically alive for the playoffs and Rex might rightfully think that a loss to the Browns would seal his fate. The top of the organization has to agree that seeing Cardale play is worth 3 straight losses to end the season and that TT isn't going to be back next season before the move is made because once Taylor is benched he's never stepping on the field as a Bill again. That's a tough decision to reach while playoffs are still technically possible. Then there's the fact that Cardale come into the league this season as a highly talented, but extremely raw player. There's a good chance he's nowhere near ready.

 

 

 

Yup. Carucci says Cardale isn't likely to be ready in 2017. Much less now. No reason to play him, you'd just fossilize bad habits that they're actively going to be trying to change.

 

If we do see a different QB - and I personally doubt we will - I would expect it to be Manuel. And I'm sure that idea will not be popular but it simply makes more sense. One more quick shot to see if he's stepped up. He most likely hasn't. Then you can let him go without worrying about it.

 

I'm not worried about Tyrod getting injured that badly that he'd still be out in March. It could happen. My guess is that if he's injured it'll be some kind of a bruise, tweak or bone break that would be OK in three months. I wouldn't worry about that. I'd play Tyrod, myself. Better chance that he has improved than either Manuel or Jones at this point has.

Blah, blah, blah. You learn while playing.

 

 

 

Yup. But sometimes what you learn is a lot more likely to help you in the short run and hurt you in the long run.

 

When you're trying to install new mechanics the last thing you do is put a guy in a real game. He'll go back to what worked for him in the past and destroy all the work you've done to change his habits.

I think there are a lot of assumptions going on here:

 

1. That Rex will be fired and Tyrod cut

2. That the injury clause thing is a fact.

3. That Tyrod would somehow be motivated to get hurt.

 

# 3 is something that I doubt too many people think. For all the criticism he has received, I haven't noticed even one poster that doesn't personally like TT and think of him as a stand up guy. Personally I don't think #3 is a consideration at all.

 

Although #1 is, sadly, at least possibly true, we are still technically alive. Wade took a lot of crap for saying something stupid about being out of it. Now even the fan base wants a white flag? When we play Cleveland? Common man.

 

i have no idea about #2 but if it is true, I'm sure there are a lot of details and that all of the rumors about the content are just that, rumors. Obviously anybody can get hurt on any play but to assume he is going to get hurt seems weird. If you're going to sit him you have to make him inactive or at best emergency QB. If you inactivate him you might as well cut him. He doesn't deserve that in any way quite frankly and I don't think players around the league....potential FAs....or even guys on our team would view that very favorably. Even if TT and Rex are gone, why leave the players that are staying with a bad taste in their mouth?

 

 

 

The injury thing is a fact, or at least overthecap.com has it.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Assuming arguendo that the injury clause is real, it is simply irresponsible. Why the team would agree to said clause is unfathomable.

 

I really do not understand the machinations of the front office, but if I am Whaley or Pegula I tell Rex to sit Tyrod or look for a new job. If need be, do not activate him.

 

and yet Pegs loves Whaley, God help us, Rex probably gets canned and we have to trust the guy who brought us 3 bum QBs and doesn't think Oline is important to find us the right coach, Awesome can't wait! My only hope is he screws up and picks the right guy.

 

3 years younger...

 

Cardale start late or something?

[GunnerBill]

 

and yet Pegs loves Whaley, God help us, Rex probably gets canned and we have to trust the guy who brought us 3 bum QBs and doesn't think Oline is important to find us the right coach, Awesome can't wait! My only hope is he screws up and picks the right guy.

Where do you get the impression that he doesn't think Oline is important? Here are the attempts to address it in Whaley's 3 full offseasons in charge:

 

2014 - Signs G Chris Williams to a moderate FA contract to start (admittedly a mistake); Takes T Cyrus Kouandjio in the 2nd Round (another mistake). Takes G Cyril Richardson in the 5th Round. Takes T Seantrel Henderson in the 7th Round.

 

2015 - Signs G Richie Incognito to a value FA contract to start; Drafts G John Miller to start in the 3rd Round.

 

2016 - Re-signs G Richie Incognito and T Cordy Glenn to good contracts after calling it his #1 offseason priority.

 

So I make that in 3 years:

 

2 big FA moves;

4 draft picks (including a 2nd and a 3rd);

2 major extensions.

 

That is without the smaller name FA pickups of Mills, Lewis and Groy.

 

If you want to criticise Whaley for the line then criticise his efforts in that 2014 offseason as being failed moves if you like. That would be fair. But to suggest he does not value the line or has somehow overlooked it is plain wrong.

 

Our line has played pretty well again this season. Glenn has been good without quite being his dominant best, Richie had a slow start but has been excellrnt since about week 5. Wood was having a solid year and Groy has been fine since replacing him. Miller was playing at a pro-bowl level through 6 weeks has been up and down since then but has taken a big step on last year. Jordan Mills has had 3 or 4 bad games and remains the weak link but even he has not been a consistent liability.

[CodeMonkey]

And we should care about this because?

Surprised I need to say this but, it's not his fault that the Bills drafted him as high as they did, or that he sucks as a starting QB. As near as I can tell, he has been nothing but a team player the entire time and has a good work ethic. He has been nothing but loyal to the Bills organization. There is no reason that the Bills should be anything but loyal to him, particularly when it costs them nothing to do so. If the Bills were fighting for a playoff spot then obviously not, but the Rex Ryan circus has ended that fantasy. If nothing else, IMO you don't play TT because of the insane injury clause (who the hell writes these contracts for the Bills?), and you don't play Cardale because he has never been prepared at all to play this entire season. By simple process of elimination EJ starts, and a side benefit is he gets seen and it costs the Bills nothing.

 

Start EJ, maybe Cardale dresses and is the backup and gets a few snaps.

Edited December 15, 2016 by CodeMonkey

[ALF]

Scary, hope Bills have a lot of insurance on his contract

 

 

"If Taylor suffers a serious injury that leaves him unable to pass a physical by March 11 -- far from an impossibility for a running quarterback

-- the Bills could be on the hook for his $27.5 million 2017 compensation, even if they don't want to pick up his contract option

http://buffalonews.com/2016/12/15/jay-skurskis-3-bills-thoughts-tyrod-taylor-rex-ryan-dirt-cheap-tickets/

Edited December 15, 2016 by ALF

[CodeMonkey]

 

Scary, hope Bills have a lot of insurance on his contract

 

 

"If Taylor suffers a serious injury that leaves him unable to pass a physical by March 11 -- far from an impossibility for a running quarterback

-- the Bills could be on the hook for his $27.5 million 2017 compensation, even if they don't want to pick up his contract option

http://buffalonews.com/2016/12/15/jay-skurskis-3-bills-thoughts-tyrod-taylor-rex-ryan-dirt-cheap-tickets/

 

 

Exactly why he should not see the field again this season *if* the Bills don't plan on having him on the roster next season.

Edited December 15, 2016 by CodeMonkey

[Greybeard]

 

Scary, hope Bills have a lot of insurance on his contract

 

 

"If Taylor suffers a serious injury that leaves him unable to pass a physical by March 11 -- far from an impossibility for a running quarterback

-- the Bills could be on the hook for his $27.5 million 2017 compensation, even if they don't want to pick up his contract option

http://buffalonews.com/2016/12/15/jay-skurskis-3-bills-thoughts-tyrod-taylor-rex-ryan-dirt-cheap-tickets/

 

 

If this happened, how would it affect the cap?

[YoloinOhio]

 

and yet Pegs loves Whaley, God help us, Rex probably gets canned and we have to trust the guy who brought us 3 bum QBs and doesn't think Oline is important to find us the right coach, Awesome can't wait! My only hope is he screws up and picks the right guy.

 

 

Cardale start late or something?

Yes, he went to Fork Union Military Academy for 1 year after HS before he went to OSU and then redshirted his freshman year at OSU.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Where do you get the impression that he doesn't think Oline is important? Here are the attempts to address it in Whaley's 3 full offseasons in charge:

 

2014 - Signs G Chris Williams to a moderate FA contract to start (admittedly a mistake); Takes T Cyrus Kouandjio in the 2nd Round (another mistake). Takes G Cyril Richardson in the 5th Round. Takes T Seantrel Henderson in the 7th Round.

 

2015 - Signs G Richie Incognito to a value FA contract to start; Drafts G John Miller to start in the 3rd Round.

 

2016 - Re-signs G Richie Incognito and T Cordy Glenn to good contracts after calling it his #1 offseason priority.

 

So I make that in 3 years:

 

2 big FA moves;

4 draft picks (including a 2nd and a 3rd);

2 major extensions.

 

That is without the smaller name FA pickups of Mills, Lewis and Groy.

 

If you want to criticise Whaley for the line then criticise his efforts in that 2014 offseason as being failed moves if you like. That would be fair. But to suggest he does not value the line or has somehow overlooked it is plain wrong.

 

Our line has played pretty well again this season. Glenn has been good without quite being his dominant best, Richie had a slow start but has been excellrnt since about week 5. Wood was having a solid year and Groy has been fine since replacing him. Miller was playing at a pro-bowl level through 6 weeks has been up and down since then but has taken a big step on last year. Jordan Mills has had 3 or 4 bad games and remains the weak link but even he has not been a consistent liability.

 

I read somewhere a few yrs ago that he felt it wasn't important to pay guards and he clearly didn't address the gigantic crater that is RT. The only reason we got Ritchie is because NO ONE else wanted him, he didn't pick Glenn and would be a complete dolt if he didn't sign him. He has tried to draft online but has mostly failed. I don't know why he can't pick offense but he seems to better on defense. Funny thing is Nix was pretty good at OLine, they should have kept him for that. To me Whaley has done an average job which is just not good enough.

[GunnerBill]

 

I read somewhere a few yrs ago that he felt it wasn't important to pay guards and he clearly didn't address the gigantic crater that is RT. The only reason we got Ritchie is because NO ONE else wanted him, he didn't pick Glenn and would be a complete dolt if he didn't sign him. He has tried to draft online but has mostly failed. I don't know why he can't pick offense but he seems to better on defense. Funny thing is Nix was pretty good at OLine, they should have kept him for that. To me Whaley has done an average job which is just not good enough.

I think you will find Nix was the one who thought guards were not important and you could slide any failes tackle inside.

 

Our line is decent and Whaley has built it and has spent resources doing so. He has very obviously NOT ignored the line.

[BringBackFergy]

Take the "Tyrod is" and move it to the start of the thread title.

[The Wiz]

 

If this happened, how would it affect the cap?

It doesn't.