EJ as Closer

[Rico]

Can't spell reject without an E and a J.

[prissythecat]

It's a big silly but as much as some of you don't want to admit it, EJ is almost the same as a passer as Tyrod. The turnovers is the major difference but EJ actually will attend passes over the middle.

 

I hope Tyrod shows franchise type skills before the end of the year. But I wonder what their careers would be like if EJ got to sit behind Flacco and Tyrod had to play right away.

 

Quite a few gems in this post. Just objectively looking at passing stats shows that EJ is several notches below Tyrod in terms of passer rating, ypa, completion percentage.

 

 

Tyrod

 

CMP ATT YDS CMP% AVG TD LNG INT FUM QBR RAT Career 377 607 4,531 62.1 7.47 29 84 10 12 - 94.0

EJ

 

CMP ATT YDS CMP% AVG TD LNG INT FUM QBR RAT Career 309 524 3,381 59.0 6.45 19 80 15 10 - 78.3

 

 

 

And to say that EJ would magically lose the deer in headlights look , pocket unawareness , and inaccuracy issues he has had since FSU days just because he rides the pine behind Flacco is absurd.

[C.Biscuit97]

 

 

 

 

Quite a few gems in this post. Just objectively looking at passing stats shows that EJ is several notches below Tyrod in terms of passer rating, ypa, completion percentage.

 

 

Tyrod

 

CMP ATT YDS CMP% AVG TD LNG INT FUM QBR RAT Career 377 607 4,531 62.1 7.47 29 84 10 12 - 94.0

EJ

 

CMP ATT YDS CMP% AVG TD LNG INT FUM QBR RAT Career 309 524 3,381 59.0 6.45 19 80 15 10 - 78.3

 

 

 

And to say that EJ would magically lose the deer in headlights look , pocket unawareness , and inaccuracy issues he has had since FSU days just because he rides the pine behind Flacco is absurd.

Saying a qb won't behind from playing on a SB team instead of for Marrone/ Hackett is hardly a leap.

 

Tyrod protects the ball mich better so he deserves to be a starter. But he has similar flaws to EJ as a passer and avoids passing in tight windows.

[MAJBobby]

The truth to the matter is we have probably two very good BU or low end starters

[KD in CA]

Who do you think he is, Don Strock?

[PromoTheRobot]

 

The notion isn't as silly as some are making it out to be. Manuel has factually let game winning drives and comebacks for the team. Taylor has been terrible at it. With that said, this isn't baseball. I think quarterbacks need time to get into the flow of games to be able to more quickly read what defenses are giving up and what they're not. I can't fathom a situation where you would play a guy up until 5 minutes left in the game and then bring in a new QB to try to win the game when you're down by a score. It's a novel concept none the less.

The weird thing about EJ is he actually gets better in crunch time...after blowing the rest of the game. My question is can he perform coming off the bench or does he need to get all the bad plays out of his system first before playing well?

[Hanoverbills]

I was laughing when EJ came in for a brief spell this year. The only pass he threw was straight into tight triple coverage that should have been picked.

I was laughing to,when TT line up behind the guard. That was funny.

Saying a qb won't behind from playing on a SB team instead of for Marrone/ Hackett is hardly a leap.

 

Tyrod protects the ball mich better so he deserves to be a starter. But he has similar flaws to EJ as a passer and avoids passing in tight windows.

Plus one guy had two more years of nfl coaching than the other.

[CardinalScotts]

Let Tyrod get more games under his belt..we are at 22 with this team...30 will be a good number to look at

[Jobot]

Kind of an out of the box idea, but what if we made EJ the closer. Where he comes in at the end of the 4th to pull out games. In his second game he had led a come from behind TD drive against the Panthers and should of had another one against the Falcons. Tyrod can do alot of things, one of them isn't putting the team on his back and pulling out a victory in the 4th, he's not that kind of QB.

 

HAHAHAHA

 

He had 1 comeback win and should of had another??? What are you thinking!?!?!! LOFL

[bobobonators]

Nice try though completion % doesn't mean Accuracy

 

I know EJ had more Turnovers. However a turnover can be the result of a Bad pass, a tipped ball that the WR dropped. I was talking accuracy and found it interesting that TT and EJ have every similar Bad Pass numbers Hence interesting stat of the day

You know what I've noticed with you? Every single positive attribute that is given to you about TT you always come back with some wingbat "but sometimes" statement. When you are unwilling to see any positive in a QB that our front office and other coaches around the NFL see good things in, it tells me you're so far out in left field with your views that i simply cant take you seriously.

[jaybee]

Sal Maiorano was saying earlier this week that in the 4th qtr when the Bills are within one score of taking the lead; that Tyrod has a 40% completion rate and a QB rating of 50. I dont know about EJ (he might be OK) but Tyrod has been unable to light it up when the teams back is against the wall. It likely isnt exclusively his fault. Play calling, route running, injuries etc. They all play a role.

 

The problem with the OP's idea is there is only so much practice time and these 2 QB's splitting reps with the #1's would likely dilute their readiness for each opponent. Additionally, you also take the risk of creating controversy, locker room taking sides and a media that will throw nitrous on the fire.

 

But, I wont pile on....... even though its the in-thing to do on this forum. The OP is simply asking a question. Nothing wrong with that.

 

EDIT: very much agree with the quote below..I hate to say.....

 

MAJbobby ... The truth to the matter is we have probably two very good BU or low end starters

Edited October 27, 2016 by jaybee

[BringBackOrton]

The only thing EJ will be closing is his chain of lucrative Popeye's franchises.

[Maddog69]

Kind of an out of the box idea, but what if we made EJ the closer. Where he comes in at the end of the 4th to pull out games. In his second game he had led a come from behind TD drive against the Panthers and should of had another one against the Falcons. Tyrod can do alot of things, one of them isn't putting the team on his back and pulling out a victory in the 4th, he's not that kind of QB.

I like the out of the box thinking. And I think there are some cases where they already do this in a limited capacity. I would not mind seeing a little more. That said, Tyrod either needs to develop into the closer that we need or they need to find a better answer at the position. I don't think EJ is that answer and I am quickly getting to the point of accepting that Tyrod is not either.

[bigK14094]

I think TT has all the makings of a closer. He can run when the chips are down.....more than he runs normally. I was extremely disappointed in the Dolphins game in the fourth qtr when they ran the wildcat from the 20 yard line on first and 10. Mike G loses 10 yards, and TT is back under center 2 and 20. They need to FIND out about TT, they certainly didn't put the ball in his hands that series. Lynn still a rookie OC, and it showed on that series. At 2nd and 20, TT was already in trouble.

[QB Bills]

Kind of an out of the box idea, but what if we made EJ the closer. Where he comes in at the end of the 4th to pull out games. In his second game he had led a come from behind TD drive against the Panthers and should of had another one against the Falcons. Tyrod can do alot of things, one of them isn't putting the team on his back and pulling out a victory in the 4th, he's not that kind of QB.

I suggest you re-watch that last drive against the Panthers. His completions were dumpoffs (mostly to Freddie, one of which he had to purposely drop to stop the clock) and the blown coverage lob to Stevie who was wide open, but would never have been successful if he was covered.

 

He also threw an unnecessary bullet at CJ who was less than ten yards in front of him that bounced right off him and should have been picked. He had a decent scramble on the penultimate play of that drive. Other than that, he sucked. And has always sucked. And likely always will.

 

Fred Jackson won that game for the Bills, not EJ.

Edited October 27, 2016 by QB Bills

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

There's an old phrase if you have 2 QBs you have none

[TakeYouToTasker]

You know what I've noticed with you? Every single positive attribute that is given to you about TT you always come back with some wingbat "but sometimes" statement. When you are unwilling to see any positive in a QB that our front office and other coaches around the NFL see good things in, it tells me you're so far out in left field with your views that i simply cant take you seriously.

Bob:

 

I think the issue is that the things that Taylor does well: turning broken plays into gains, passing outside of the pocket, protecting the ball with conservative throws, and having top end big play ability; aren't conducive to long sustained drives, and that's largely because when Taylor is forced to be a pocket passer, which is typical on ever NFL drive in 2nd and 3rd and long situations, he struggles to convert. The necessary skills for that just aren't in his tool belt.

 

So in games like the Miami game, where the defense is getting warn down, and/or struggling, and the offense needs to keep them off the field, they can't.

 

It's the exact same reason he struggles in late/clutch situations.

 

So it's not so much that what he does well isn't being acknowledged, they are. No one here would dare say that Taylor isn't dangerous with his legs, and doesn't have elite big play ability. It's that the things he does well really don't matter much when the chips are down. Tyrod may well be the very best screwdriver in the world, that doesn't matter one bit when someone needs to drive a nail.

Edited October 27, 2016 by TakeYouToTasker

[Hanoverbills]

 

 

Quite a few gems in this post. Just objectively looking at passing stats shows that EJ is several notches below Tyrod in terms of passer rating, ypa, completion percentage.

 

 

Tyrod

 

CMP ATT YDS CMP% AVG TD LNG INT FUM QBR RAT Career 377 607 4,531 62.1 7.47 29 84 10 12 - 94.0

EJ

 

CMP ATT YDS CMP% AVG TD LNG INT FUM QBR RAT Career 309 524 3,381 59.0 6.45 19 80 15 10 - 78.3

 

 

 

And to say that EJ would magically lose the deer in headlights look , pocket unawareness , and inaccuracy issues he has had since FSU days just because he rides the pine behind Flacco is absurd.

 

This year TT has a 60.4 comp% and 6.8 avg. Not to much better than EJ. career. Sounds like inaccuracy issues. Jamie Winston who is from FSU 58.8 career comp%. Inaccuracy issues. Ej Has A 3.6 Td% and 2.9 int% and Jamie Winston 4.4 td% and 3.1 int%.

[flaz]

"should of had" "stupider" Dumbest post with some with dumber language

[fridge]

"should of had" "stupider" Dumbest post with some with dumber language

 

[Gugny]

Can't spell reject without an E and a J.

 

Funny. You can't spell sanfu without A-N-U-S, either.

[reddogblitz]

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/comebacks_active.htm

 

 

EJ certainly has not led 3 or 4 comebacks.

 

Ok, 2 then. Carolina and Chicago at Soldier Field. And, before you say it was Fred, EJ completed a 3rd an 10 to Mike Williams the play before that.

 

Hotrod has how many again? How is he on 3rd down late?

 

I'm not saying EJ is better. And, I love Hotrod's big winning margins. Obviously crunch time is his weakness. EJ has had success with this twice. You bring in a specialist at RB on the goal line and a pass rusher on 3rd down. Just because coaches have always done it this way does not necessarily mean it's right. Used to be having the QB in the shotgun was considered a really dumb idea too .

[snafu]

 

Funny. You can't spell sanfu without A-N-U-S, either.

 

Yep. I've got one of those. Don't you?

It was a joke. Lighten up. I like EJ because by all appearances he seems to be a good teammate and a standup guy. Not as a starting or a "relief" quarterback for the Bills. If he needs to play because of injury, then I wish him well. He really hasn't shown an ability to succeed. We shall see where his career goes after this season.

[bobobonators]

Bob:

 

I think the issue is that the things that Taylor does well: turning broken plays into gains, passing outside of the pocket, protecting the ball with conservative throws, and having top end big play ability; aren't conducive to long sustained drives, and that's largely because when Taylor is forced to be a pocket passer, which is typical on ever NFL drive in 2nd and 3rd and long situations, he struggles to convert. The necessary skills for that just aren't in his tool belt.

 

So in games like the Miami game, where the defense is getting warn down, and/or struggling, and the offense needs to keep them off the field, they can't.

 

It's the exact same reason he struggles in late/clutch situations.

 

So it's not so much that what he does well isn't being acknowledged, they are. No one here would dare say that Taylor isn't dangerous with his legs, and doesn't have elite big play ability. It's that the things he does well really don't matter much when the chips are down. Tyrod may well be the very best screwdriver in the world, that doesn't matter one bit when someone needs to drive a nail.

Fair enough. Debating is tiresome. At the end of the day TT has started 21 games for us. Not even a season and a half. He has an overall winning record despite our defense sucking bad last yr and out of those 21 games how many have Shady and/or Sammy missed? Half?

Go bills.

[TakeYouToTasker]

Fair enough. Debating is tiresome. At the end of the day TT has started 21 games for us. Not even a season and a half. He has an overall winning record despite our defense sucking bad last yr and out of those 21 games how many have Shady and/or Sammy missed? Half?

Go bills.

All teams deal with injuries, and in a salary cap league one side of the ball or another will typically suffer. The Bills aren't unique in those situations.

 

In those 21 games, Taylor has a winning % of 57.1. If we lose to NE that % will drop to 54.5.

 

Do you know how many NFL teams since 2013 have made the playoffs without winning their division with a winning % falling between 57.1 and 54.5? Exactly 1. The 9-7 2013 San Diego Chargers.

 

So, if you think that's "getting it done", we have very different standards.

[bmur66]

If EJ could get the 3 interceptions etc... out of his system in practice before the game then maybe he could do something in the 4th quarter

[Samwell Tarly]

Thanks, but no thanks.

[bobobonators]

All teams deal with injuries, and in a salary cap league one side of the ball or another will typically suffer. The Bills aren't unique in those situations.

 

In those 21 games, Taylor has a winning % of 57.1. If we lose to NE that % will drop to 54.5.

 

Do you know how many NFL teams since 2013 have made the playoffs without winning their division with a winning % falling between 57.1 and 54.5? Exactly 1. The 9-7 2013 San Diego Chargers.

 

So, if you think that's "getting it done", we have very different standards.

Apparently Im talking to people who are fans of a team that has made the playoffs on a yearly basis and has won divisions every other year. To boo-hoo TT's winning record on the BILLS of all teams is a little silly. Just a little. How many QB's on the Bills have had a winning record over a 21 game stretch in the last two decades? Bledsoe and Flutie?

 

And yes every team has injuries. I get it. Sammy and Shady are not regular players, do you agree? And despite them being injured we still have come out on top more often than not, thats my point.

[fridge]

Apparently Im talking to people who are fans of a team that has made the playoffs on a yearly basis and has won divisions every other year. To boo-hoo TT's winning record on the BILLS of all teams is a little silly. Just a little. How many QB's on the Bills have had a winning record over a 21 game stretch in the last two decades? Bledsoe and Flutie?

 

And yes every team has injuries. I get it. Sammy and Shady are not regular players, do you agree? And despite them being injured we still have come out on top more often than not, thats my point.

 

I'd like to think we're all experts at watching non-playoff teams. Perhaps the Taylor dissent is hitting close to home because you realize that it means we're recognizing yet another disappointment is on the horizon.

[bobobonators]

 

I'd like to think we're all experts at watching non-playoff teams. Perhaps the Taylor dissent is hitting close to home because you realize that it means we're recognizing yet another disappointment is on the horizon.

Hahah. It just comes down to not living in the moment. Before TT is given the opportunity to fail he's failed. He cant take you to the super bowl. How about we clinch a wild card spot first.

[r00tabaga]

Kind of an out of the box idea, but what if we made EJ the closer. Where he comes in at the end of the 4th to pull out games. In his second game he had led a come from behind TD drive against the Panthers and should of had another one against the Falcons. Tyrod can do alot of things, one of them isn't putting the team on his back and pulling out a victory in the 4th, he's not that kind of QB.

Interesting ideas. Someday you might see something, somewhere like this. If the Pats* spend zero time prepping for EJ, Bill would need all of about 33 seconds to adjust...lol

[fridge]

Hahah. It just comes down to not living in the moment. Before TT is given the opportunity to fail he's failed. He cant take you to the super bowl. How about we clinch a wild card spot first.

 

In the short term he failed us last season in late games (KC, PHI, NE - to name a few) and this season (BAL, MIA). To pretend that he's not been given the opportunity to fail would tell me that you've not seen many fourth quarters since he's been our QB.

 

If you mean in the long term he hasn't been given the opportunity to fail, then I don't see how that's any different than yanking a second year QB with a 2-2 record.

[WotAGuy]

If been thinking of this as well.

 

Why not try it? What have we got to lose?

 

Other than the game, nothing at all actually. I'm on board!

[3rdand12]

UC , i see what you mean.

 

There might be a time when traditional QBing gets a kick in the pants. Buffalo is already defying the trends with wildcat and read options with the 2nd QB.

 

Change of pace QB.

 

I like it. I honestly do

[KDIGGZ]

This might work because then we can blame EJ instead of Tyrod when we lose. He can be the fall guy.

 

But seriously as bad as EJ is he has shown more than Tyrod in crunch time because Tyrod has shown next to nothing

[White Linen]

 

The notion isn't as silly as some are making it out to be. Manuel has factually let game winning drives and comebacks for the team. Taylor has been terrible at it. With that said, this isn't baseball. I think quarterbacks need time to get into the flow of games to be able to more quickly read what defenses are giving up and what they're not. I can't fathom a situation where you would play a guy up until 5 minutes left in the game and then bring in a new QB to try to win the game when you're down by a score. It's a novel concept none the less.

 

i agree with you. They should be making it out to be much sillier than they already are.

[jr1]

Enter Sandman starts playing and EJ finishes off the Jags

[bobobonators]

 

In the short term he failed us last season in late games (KC, PHI, NE - to name a few) and this season (BAL, MIA). To pretend that he's not been given the opportunity to fail would tell me that you've not seen many fourth quarters since he's been our QB.

 

If you mean in the long term he hasn't been given the opportunity to fail, then I don't see how that's any different than yanking a second year QB with a 2-2 record.

The cheifs game he failed us? You mean the game where he threw for 292yds 3tds and had almost another 50yds rushing? You realize he literally accounted for almost our entire offense that game. In KC mind you. But he failed us. Mccoys bad game and fumble didnt hurt us at all. TT lost us that game by himself. Gotcha. Points in quarters 1-3 count the same as points in quarter 4. There isnt a sliding scale to points. Its a total. Which is a perfect segway to players failing us last yr in this thread:

 

EJ manuel single handedly lost us the Jax game last season with his putrid turnover show in the first half. Oh but he almost brought us back. Too bad the crapshow he had in the first half doesnt lose its significance come the 4th Quarter. That was a perfect example of someone losing a game for you.

 

How many games has TT started and gone into the 4th quarter with a lead and we lose? 2 games out of 21. @ KC and @miami last week. 2 games out of 21.

Edited October 27, 2016 by bobobonators

[mikemac2001]

How many of the 21 games have we been leading going into the 4th

 

Then we can figure out tt had the lead going into the 4th 10 times and we lost 2 blah blah blah

[TSOL]

Would be funny if the OP'er edited the "C" out of the thread title