Knox "Reworks" Deal Frees Cap

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 minute ago, billsfan89 said:

 

Reworking the two only “bad” contracts on the roster (Knox and Von) is a huge victory hopefully they can get Diggs to slightly rework his deal as well

Very huge victory.

[TBBills Fan]

4 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Happy has his connections at OBD. That's been established here.

 

It's Buffalo. 2 degrees of separation at most.

Kevin Bacon is my uncle

[letsgoteam]

5 hours ago, drummernut74 said:

Because they are true team players that want to WIN in Buffalo, and have a unique set of principles 

Yup and some point these guys have "enough money".

 

Von for sure. Dawson not nearly as much, but with some self restraint (and commonsense investing), his family is/will be set for many generations as well.

[TC in St. Louis]

Hey, Dawg....we gotta talk.  Things have changed since we did that deal.  You know you're not worth 14 million a year.  We thought you'd be a 60 catch 8 TD guy, but that ain't in the cards.  What say we drop down to about half, and put in some juice if you hit certain incentives?  if you get to 60 catches and 8 td's we'll get you to 14.  Earn it, bro.

 

Knox:  Seems fair.  I love playing here.  Let's do it.  

[NickelCity]

2 minutes ago, TC in St. Louis said:

Hey, Dawg....we gotta talk.  Things have changed since we did that deal.  You know you're not worth 14 million a year.  We thought you'd be a 60 catch 8 TD guy, but that ain't in the cards.  What say we drop down to about half, and put in some juice if you hit certain incentives?  if you get to 60 catches and 8 td's we'll get you to 14.  Earn it, bro.

 

[HappyDays]

Details are in:

 

https://overthecap.com/player/dawson-knox/7887

 

He went from a $14.3M cap hit in 2024 to a $7.7M cap hit. So $6.6M in savings this year.

 

His cap hit in 2025 year is also slightly cheaper, by about $1.4M.

 

The one downside is it's harder to get out of his contract in 2025. Cutting him pre-6/1 next year will now actually cost us more, whereas before it would have saved us money. Most likely scenario I think is we designate him as a post-6/1 cut next offseason. I don't think we will keep him for a $14M cap hit next year.

 

Edited March 15 by HappyDays

[HappyDays]

9 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

Details are in:

 

https://overthecap.com/player/dawson-knox/7887

 

He went from a $14.3M cap hit in 2024 to a $7.7M cap hit. So $6.6M in savings this year.

 

His cap hit in 2025 year is also slightly cheaper, by about $1.4M.

 

The one downside is it's harder to get out of his contract in 2025. Cutting him pre-6/1 next year will now actually cost us more, whereas before it would have saved us money. Most likely scenario I think is we designate him as a post-6/1 cut next offseason. I don't think we will keep him for a $14M cap hit next year.

 

 

We also added two void years to his contract, $2.33M in 2027, $1.17M in 2028.

 

The actual pay cut he took was probably for around $3M in real cash.

[GunnerBill]

18 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

Details are in:

 

https://overthecap.com/player/dawson-knox/7887

 

He went from a $14.3M cap hit in 2024 to a $7.7M cap hit. So $6.6M in savings this year.

 

His cap hit in 2025 year is also slightly cheaper, by about $1.4M.

 

The one downside is it's harder to get out of his contract in 2025. Cutting him pre-6/1 next year will now actually cost us more, whereas before it would have saved us money. Most likely scenario I think is we designate him as a post-6/1 cut next offseason. I don't think we will keep him for a $14M cap hit next year.

 

 

Not had a chance to look what does it do to a 2025 trade? To me that is the most likely option. Moving him for a 5th or something.

[GoBills808]

20 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

We also added two void years to his contract, $2.33M in 2027, $1.17M in 2028.

 

The actual pay cut he took was probably for around $3M in real cash.

lol why they ever give him that deal in the first place is completely beyond me

[HappyDays]

9 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Not had a chance to look what does it do to a 2025 trade? To me that is the most likely option. Moving him for a 5th or something.

 

Good point. We would take a $12.47M dead cap hit, which would be $1.6M in savings. I'm not sure what the trading team would owe him, that would determine his trade value.

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, HappyDays said:

 

Good point. We would take a $12.47M dead cap hit, which would be $1.6M in savings. I'm not sure what the trading team would owe him, that would determine his trade value.

 

Yea. He still has starting tight end value. So as long as the receiving team isn't seriously on the hook that is the most likely outcome IMO.

[TheyCallMeAndy]

7.7m puts like 20 TEs above him. 
 

 

[GoBills808]

4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yea. He still has starting tight end value. So as long as the receiving team isn't seriously on the hook that is the most likely outcome IMO.

how many starting value tight ends out there are taking pay cuts

[GunnerBill]

6 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

how many starting value tight ends out there are taking pay cuts

 

I don't know but for instance Dalton Schultz took a below market value last year. It happens. If the Bills made Knox available for trade they would have multiple suitors contract terms allowing.

[ColoradoBills]

45 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

Details are in:

 

https://overthecap.com/player/dawson-knox/7887

 

He went from a $14.3M cap hit in 2024 to a $7.7M cap hit. So $6.6M in savings this year.

 

His cap hit in 2025 year is also slightly cheaper, by about $1.4M.

 

The one downside is it's harder to get out of his contract in 2025. Cutting him pre-6/1 next year will now actually cost us more, whereas before it would have saved us money. Most likely scenario I think is we designate him as a post-6/1 cut next offseason. I don't think we will keep him for a $14M cap hit next year.

 

 

I get the $3M+ in real pay cut too.

 

Just my opinion, but I could see Dawson taking another cut next year for more guaranteed money to stay in Buffalo in 2025.

It seems like the thing he would do.

 

[HappyDays]

15 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

lol why they ever give him that deal in the first place is completely beyond me

 

My theory was that we were coming off the heels of the Matt Araiza story and the team was looking for a bit of good will in the locker room. Knox had just lost his brother... it was an immediate infusion of good news at a time when the team needed it. And he came off a year where he scored 9 TDs. They bet on his upside and it unfortunately didn't pay off.

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I don't know but for instance Dalton Schultz took a below market value last year. It happens. If the Bills made Knox available for trade they would have multiple suitors contract terms allowing.

😂😂Ok

 

I think his trade value is zero

[Drew21PA]

On 3/11/2024 at 10:41 AM, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Hey Stefon Diggs, Brandon Beane would like to ask you a question? 

Text chain read like tjis

 

BB: hey Stef

 

Diggs:  don’t even think about it

 

BB:  alright - have a great summer - see you in June!

[Aussie Joe]

1 hour ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

I get the $3M+ in real pay cut too.

 

Just my opinion, but I could see Dawson taking another cut next year for more guaranteed money to stay in Buffalo in 2025.

It seems like the thing he would do.

 

I got a feeling they will trade him next year … he will be better off too… he is still a TE1 on some team and his role in Buffalo is diminished …

[Prospector]

On 3/11/2024 at 12:23 PM, TBBills Fan said:

Kevin Bacon is my uncle

He’s all of our uncles if we took footloose to heart

[BillsFan130]

1 hour ago, GoBills808 said:

lol why they ever give him that deal in the first place is completely beyond me

Agreed. He had one descent year when he caught a bunch of TDs in 2021 but that's it.

 

How that warrants a 14 mil per year is beyond me

[LABILLBACKER]

2 hours ago, HappyDays said:

Details are in:

 

https://overthecap.com/player/dawson-knox/7887

 

He went from a $14.3M cap hit in 2024 to a $7.7M cap hit. So $6.6M in savings this year.

 

His cap hit in 2025 year is also slightly cheaper, by about $1.4M.

 

The one downside is it's harder to get out of his contract in 2025. Cutting him pre-6/1 next year will now actually cost us more, whereas before it would have saved us money. Most likely scenario I think is we designate him as a post-6/1 cut next offseason. I don't think we will keep him for a $14M cap hit next year.

 

I think both Von and Knox will be post June 1st cuts next year. 

[ganesh]

37 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said:

I got a feeling they will trade him next year … he will be better off too… he is still a TE1 on some team and his role in Buffalo is diminished …

He still makes those tough sideline catches.  

[TBBills Fan]

48 minutes ago, Prospector said:

He’s all of our uncles if we took footloose to heart

Youre damn right

[BillsFan130]

I almost wish the bills just re structured the full amount for Josh and just would have bit the bullet with Knox's contract this year so they can get out of this deal after this season.

 

anyone know the post June cap savings if bills cut Knox next year?

[No_Matter_What]

It's on Spotrac now.

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/dawson-knox-29132/

 

His cap hit is lower both this year and next, but dead cap after this season went from $7,8M to $17M.

[RyanC883]

On 3/11/2024 at 10:56 AM, DapperCam said:

I don’t really understand Von and Knox taking pay cuts. What leverage do the Bills have in this scenarios? They can’t really cut these guys due to the dead cap. Why do the players say yes?

 

they want to win.  with incentives they can make more

[BarleyNY]

On 3/15/2024 at 8:10 PM, LABILLBACKER said:

I think both Von and Knox will be post June 1st cuts next year. 

I think Von and Diggs will be our two 6/1 cuts next year. Due to a partially guaranteed salary in 2025 it would be too costly to cut Knox then. But the reworked contract wouldn’t impact the Bills ability to trade him then if they decide to go that route. 

[BarleyNY]

On 3/11/2024 at 10:56 AM, DapperCam said:

I don’t really understand Von and Knox taking pay cuts. What leverage do the Bills have in this scenarios? They can’t really cut these guys due to the dead cap. Why do the players say yes?

In Knox’s case he’s getting an additional $17M in guaranteed money to take a pay cut of $4.5M over the 3 years left on his deal. Most players will trade off guaranteed money for some salary they might never see. This reminds me of what Beane worked out with Star on his horrible contract. 

[Saint Doug]

3 hours ago, No_Matter_What said:

It's on Spotrac now.

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/dawson-knox-29132/

 

His cap hit is lower both this year and next, but dead cap after this season went from $7,8M to $17M.

So, it looks like the potential out if not after this season, but the 2025 season, where dead cap is about $7M. 

[AlCowlingsTaxiService]

On 3/11/2024 at 10:35 AM, Logic said:

Imagine working you way up the depth chart, balling out, and signing a big contract to be the TE1 of a top offense for years to come.

Then the very next offseason your team trades up in the 1st round to select another tight end, and the offseason after that, they're knocking on your day asking you to take a paycut.

Tough business. 

Maybe had he actually “balled out” this wouldn’t be the case

[Beck Water]

On 3/15/2024 at 5:04 PM, HappyDays said:

Details are in:

 

https://overthecap.com/player/dawson-knox/7887

 

He went from a $14.3M cap hit in 2024 to a $7.7M cap hit. So $6.6M in savings this year.

 

His cap hit in 2025 year is also slightly cheaper, by about $1.4M.

 

The one downside is it's harder to get out of his contract in 2025. Cutting him pre-6/1 next year will now actually cost us more, whereas before it would have saved us money. Most likely scenario I think is we designate him as a post-6/1 cut next offseason. I don't think we will keep him for a $14M cap hit next year.

 

Whoaoa, That's Some Haircut!

[T master]

On 3/11/2024 at 9:25 AM, Process said:

Love Dawson but it's pretty crazy that he was counting $14.4M against the cap in the first place. Stuff like that is why we are in this mess. 

 

Hind sight is always 20/20 especially when you draft a guy like Kincaid ! At the time and even now i still believe Knox is a total Bills type player & will be very valuable to our new OC ! 

 

There will come some times this season that Kincaid, and other will be seemed against & i hop win the biggest of moments Knox will be that guy that they will forget about because of the sentiment of this way of thinking that he's not worth the pay & he will burn the opposition .

 

When Knox made that Angry run down the sideline and plowed over that defender or the time he made that catch that he flipped into the end zone for the TD to help win that game i don't believe any of us were thinking he wasn't worth the cash then but now that Kincaid has come aboard it's totally different .

 

Yah he's not Travis Kelsey but i'm not going to Knox him because i think there will be times when he will come up big for the team this year and would still rather have him than not but will agree $14 mill a year is way to high for him i hope he can see that & stays with the Bills long term ...

[Rigotz]

On 3/17/2024 at 5:51 AM, No_Matter_What said:

It's on Spotrac now.

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/dawson-knox-29132/

 

His cap hit is lower both this year and next, but dead cap after this season went from $7,8M to $17M.

 

The idea of us cutting or trading him was always fan fiction anyway.

 

You don't cut a good player who's 27 years old simply because he's paid $3-$4M too much. Maybe if you were rebooting your franchise and wanted to trade for a premium draft pick, but otherwise, it's a ridiculous strategy.

 

With this in mind, we shouldn't be worried about the extra dead cap if we cut him in 1-2 years. He will be here. 

[Beck Water]

On 3/11/2024 at 10:51 AM, LABILLBACKER said:

Exactly...if you want to avoid restructures, void years, cap hell or kicking the can down the road to screw you later, just stop overpaying for less productive players. This isn't rocket science, it's called preventative medicine. 

 

As soon as Beane perfects his crystal ball so he's 100% solid on which players he re-signs early will continue to ascend, and which will stumble, I'm sure he'll get right on that.

 

At the point where Beane extended Knox very early in the 2022 season, Knox had just done everything the team asked him to do in 2021.  Doubled his receptions, doubled his receiving yards, catch % up 14.5% with no increase in drops, better blocker downfield AND inline.   

 

So Beane has to make a decision: do I extend him now?  If I don't, and he continues to equal or better that performance, he could price himself out of our market.  If I do, and it turns out to be "regression to the mean" this season, it's a premature move.

 

In fairness to Knox, his receiving use fell off in 2022 through no particular fault of his own - he was asked to block and chip because Spencer Brown wasn't cutting it, AND he had ligament repair surgery mid-season last year.

[DrDawkinstein]

6 minutes ago, Rigotz said:

 

The idea of us cutting or trading him was always fan fiction anyway.

 

You don't cut a good player who's 27 years old simply because he's paid $3-$4M too much. Maybe if you were rebooting your franchise and wanted to trade for a premium draft pick, but otherwise, it's a ridiculous strategy.

 

With this in mind, we shouldn't be worried about the extra dead cap if we cut him in 1-2 years. He will be here. 

 

His new/current contract is now right in line with his TE ranking. This re-working basically ensured he'll finish his contract with us. Absolutely no need to cut him or move on. Folks are just stuck in that mindset because they havent gotten over the old deal yet (which really only affected us for 1 season).

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

5 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

His new/current contract is now right in line with his TE ranking. This re-working basically ensured he'll finish his contract with us. Absolutely no need to cut him or move on. Folks are just stuck in that mindset because they havent gotten over the old deal yet (which really only affected us for 1 season).

 

What ranking are you using? Based on his receptions and yards from last season he's still really overpaid. We're paying Knox to be a good to great TE1 and he's performing like a low end TE2. When you look at his active and dead cap hit for 2025 and 2026 he's one of the worst TE contracts in the league.

 

It never made sense to give Knox a big contract and then trade up to draft Kincaid in the 1st. Beane is now doubling down on his mistake by increasing the dead cap from Knox when we inevitably release him after 2025 or 2026.