Takeaways from Beane's Combine pressers

[SoonerBillsFan]

Maybe...we offer him a contract extension to play safety?  I mean a ball hawk like that hitting his 30's is a natural progression.

[mrags]

6 hours ago, wettlaufer said:

 

Agree with the JOsh restructure and those cuts as well. Matakevich isn't on the roster. We are still $16M above the cap and we need to sign rookies. More hard decisions need to be made.

Maybe I’m just thinking what that useless gingers cap was last year. Didn’t know he was  a FA. They will get there and they don’t need to make any major cuts. 

[Green Lightning]

22 hours ago, jahnyc said:

Between Beane's presser and Tasker's views on the secondary, I have a feeling that Douglas will be released for cap savings.  I think it will be a mistake, particularly if the Bills think Elam can be a starter at CB.

Why burn a 3rd round pick for a half a season? Stupid. The guy is a started and a ball hawk. 

[GunnerBill]

37 minutes ago, mrags said:

Maybe I’m just thinking what that useless gingers cap was last year. Didn’t know he was  a FA. They will get there and they don’t need to make any major cuts. 

 

Matakevich still exists on the cap but it is void year dead money. 

[mrags]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

Matakevich still exists on the cap but it is void year dead money. 

Oh yeah forgot about that. The useless gift that keeps on giving. 

[HappyDays]

7 hours ago, GASabresIUFan said:

If Beane drafts a WR in the 1st 2 rounds, an FA WR could end up being our 6th best option.

 

A player like Reynolds or Samuel or Mooney being our 3rd or 4th option would be amazing. Why are you afraid of this scenario?

[GASabresIUFan]

44 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

A player like Reynolds or Samuel or Mooney being our 3rd or 4th option would be amazing. Why are you afraid of this scenario?

Because it’s a waste of money.  It’s just another band-aid without solving the long-term need. We’d also get the same performance or better from a high draft pick for less money with more potential upside.  
 

This is Emmanuel Sanders all over again.  He gave us one decent season as the 4th option and then was gone.  
 

The only way to get younger, cheaper and more talented is to draft well. In Beane’s tenure he has never drafted a WR in the first 3 rounds.  Is it any wonder we haven’t developed a WR behind Diggs?  

 

 

Edited February 29 by GASabresIUFan

[HappyDays]

4 minutes ago, GASabresIUFan said:

Because it’s a waste of money.  It’s just another band-aid without solving the long-term need. We’d also get the same performance or better from a high draft pick for less money with more potential upside.  
 

This is Emmanuel Sanders all over again.  He gave us one decent season as the 4th option and then was gone.  
 

The only way to get younger, cheaper and more talented is to draft well. In Beane’s tenure he has never drafted a WR in the first 3 rounds.  Is it any wonder we haven’t developed a WR behind Diggs?

 

You seem to think it's a choice between signing a decent WR or drafting one high. I'm saying do both. Solve the problem once and for all and leave no doubt. What if the 1st round pick isn't immediately ready? What if we suffer an injury? I don't understand why we have been scraping out the dregs when it comes to WR depth, but on the DL it's an unspeakable sin to have anything less than the most expensive depth in the league. You really think paying the likes of Tim Settle and Jordan Phillips will be more impactful than say a Curtis Samuel?

[Ya Digg?]

53 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

A player like Reynolds or Samuel or Mooney being our 3rd or 4th option would be amazing. Why are you afraid of this scenario?

Now I am completely basing this off of one play for one and one game for another, but after watching Mooney drop that Hail Mary (against the Browns I believe) and watching Reynolds drop multiple balls in the NFC championship, I don't think I want either of them in Buffalo

[BuffaloRebound]

3 minutes ago, Ya Digg? said:

Now I am completely basing this off of one play for one and one game for another, but after watching Mooney drop that Hail Mary (against the Browns I believe) and watching Reynolds drop multiple balls in the NFC championship, I don't think I want either of them in Buffalo

Agreed.  I’d rather draft one early and sign a vet to a 1 year deal who’s been the dude before like OBJ or Mike Williams than pay $8-10m a year for another mediocre guy like Gabe.  

[uninja]

On 2/28/2024 at 9:48 AM, The Jokeman said:

I agree letting Douglas go is foolish. With question marks in the secondary of Hyde's return, White's availability etc. having something that was positive should be kept. For the very reason we don't have a replacement on the current roster, for if we did we wouldn't have traded for him to begin with. Now if they don't want to extend him I can understand that more but he's under contract for 2024 and I say let him stay and play. 

 

In the short term letting Douglas go is foolish, but do you really want to give a 30+ CB a big bag? Yeah he played really well for us, but are you gonna get the productivity out of him that his contract would demand? I'd try to retain him on a 2yr deal but I would be really hesitant to make it much longer than that.

[NastyNateSoldiers]

5 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

So I just went back and re-watched it and, yeah, it was kind of an odd standoffish, telling response from Beane.

 

It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. Unless:

 

a.) They've talked to him and his agent and he's not interested in doing an extension, wants to test his market next season, and it's the full hit or nothing.

 

b.) They know Tre White is going to be back by Training Camp, they feel comfortable it's not going to hamper him, and he's open to a non-guaranteed extension.

 

c.) They truly feel that Elam was really hampered by his injury last season and it appears they do as Beane brings it up constantly. They truly feel John Butler was really doing him a disservice with his coaching and how he treated him. Reportedly, he wasn't a fan of Kaiir and if you're a young player that has a bad relationship with your coach - I imagine that will mess up your development. And ultimately, that they truly feel that what we saw in the Pittsburgh game is something he can do consistently, if healthy.

 

If all of those things are true, then I can understand where Beane is coming from. I would hope they'd bring back Dane Jackson to go with Tre, Benford, and Elam to provide even more insurance. I imagine he will be and fairly close to minimum.

 

It's tough for me to see him go as I think he and Benford are CLEARLY the safest top 2 CB's on the team. But I've always felt that keeping 3 very good starting Outside CB's in Douglas, Benford, and White on the squad at the same time didn't make sense to me - in the situation we're in cap wise and the amount of starting holes we have at other positions.

 

I would hope though that if this is the plan, that they're able to trade him rather than just cut him. I know we got a 5th back - but we did give up a 3rd Round pick for him. If you could trade the 5th you got for him with him and get a 3rd back, then it was essentially a rental. Not getting anything in return and losing a 3rd (even with a 5th return) just for half a season - that's a little steep.

 

Maybe he becomes a player that is moved on Draft Day as part of a trade? 

I like your trade idea but don't believe he's worth a 3rd even for a 5th . Jalen Ramsey was traded for a 3rd last yr and in the off-season the price is lower for Douglas.

[Shaw66]

28 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

You seem to think it's a choice between signing a decent WR or drafting one high. I'm saying do both. Solve the problem once and for all and leave no doubt. What if the 1st round pick isn't immediately ready? What if we suffer an injury? I don't understand why we have been scraping out the dregs when it comes to WR depth, but on the DL it's an unspeakable sin to have anything less than the most expensive depth in the league. You really think paying the likes of Tim Settle and Jordan Phillips will be more impactful than say a Curtis Samuel?

Hey, Hap -  You've always got interesting takes on things, and this WR vs. dline comment is another.  It's compelling, but I'm not sure it's right.  Might be, and I can't prove it's wrong, but I look at a different way. 

 

First, the Bills were 8th in the league in yards passing per game, 7th in TDs.  20 yards per game behind the Dolphins, 15 behind the Lions, who were #2, and 2 yards per game behind the Chiefs.  My suspicion (not original) is that Diggs was injured for the second half of the season; had he played up to his usual standards, the Bills would have had 10 more yards per game, on average, for the season.  That tells me that there is not a massive hole in the receiving corps.  It's hard to say that the Bills have had a serious negative impact on the passing game because of what you consider an under-allocation of resources to the position.  I say this because unless they add the replacement for Diggs in the first round and he turns into an immediate stud, no one should expect that the Bills are going to get more than 800-900 yards out of their number 2.  If that's the case, the Bills aren't far away.  Factor in likely increased production out of Kincaid, and I just don't see a huge hole.  

 

Second, I'm not saying the Bills don't need receiving help; ideally, the Bills get a #1 receiver in the first round, pair him with Diggs for a year or two, and then move on from Diggs.  However, if they don't hit a homerun and have the luxury of starting two #1s in 2024, they don't need a lot of talent to continue in the top 10 in passing or even move up into the top 5.  I think it depends much more on Brady than on getting some stud to be another target - again, I'd welcome the stud, but I don't see that he's crucial.  

 

Third, you clearly have a different philosophy about how to build a successful team.  Beane and McDermott are all in on the defensive line rotation and getting pressure with four, and that philosophy therefore demands that resources go there.  That's eight players who need to be impactful, and that has a cost associated with it.  The Bills were 7th in passing yards allowed per game, second in TDs allowed, and fourth in sacks.  That's at least some evidence that the allocation of resources to the Dline makes sense.   I've always questioned the rotation, because by needing 8, it's difficult to allocate spending to a true stud in middle, and that's the kind of player who can have out-sized impact on games.  But as I say, I've been able to live with the rotation because it has gotten results.  

 

Finally (and back to #2), I think we all tend to look at the long term less critically and less thoroughly than McDermott and Beane do.  At this time of year, they're thinking a lot about the 2025 and 2026 roster as they consider their choices, because their intention is that the Bills will be good next season AND in the seasons beyond.  One of their big issues has to be who will be the #1 receiver in the future, and how are they going to fill the position?    One answer is exactly as you say - get that guy this year, hope he can be a solid #2 by mid-season, and get a free agent who can help in the draft pick isn't the guy, or isn't the guy yet.  But for all we know, McBeane see what works best for the long term is to plan to get that receiver in the 2025 draft.  They may already be considering how they can stockpile picks in order to trade up.  I don't have any idea, but I think there's more of a plan at work here than I can see.  

 

Having said that, what I hope to see in 2024 is a #2 receiver with decent deep speed, good route running ability, reliable hands.   I want a guy like Shakir but with better size.   He'll run routes better than Davis and will be a regular threat in the offense.  He doesn't have to be great; he has to be smart with enough speed.  After all, it's pretty clear that what works in the NFL these days is having a lot of guys on the field who can execute an offense that attacks what the defense gives them.  With the Cook/Allen run threat, the defense has to give up space elsewhere, and the Bills need a scheme (Brady) and the receivers (Diggs, Shakier, Kincaid, and one more) to attack that space.  

[Westside]

On 2/28/2024 at 9:56 AM, GunnerBill said:

 

Nah. If they cut him with a post 1 June it saves us $6.7m this year. But it isn't happening. They are keeping him and doubling down. They better have a backup plan though because I think he is toast.

Are you saying Douglas is toast? If yes, I strongly disagree. He was our best cb last year hands down. Not even close

If not, then I apologize for not understanding and commenting on that misunderstanding. If not Douglas though, then who?

[BigDingus]

On 2/28/2024 at 8:39 AM, HappyDays said:

 

Generally I agree that Douglas was very good for us last year and I have been a proponent of extending him for cap relief this year. That being said I won't be upset with any 30+ year old player Beane decides to move on from this offseason. We have to force young players onto the field one way or another. We've pushed the youth rebuild off for far too long.

 

I mostly agree, but Douglas isn't really "old" either. He's 29 now, will be 30 next season, but still has a couple seasons of good football left in the tank.

 

Most importantly to me, he can help us win a Super Bowl next year. We saw what can happen with injuries, especially in our secondary, so I'm still hoping they can figure out a way to keep him. 

 

Then again, I'm not like a lot of people on here who are optimistic about Elam. He's made some clutch plays, but I don't have much confidence in him overall. 

[GASabresIUFan]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

You seem to think it's a choice between signing a decent WR or drafting one high. I'm saying do both. Solve the problem once and for all and leave no doubt. What if the 1st round pick isn't immediately ready? What if we suffer an injury? I don't understand why we have been scraping out the dregs when it comes to WR depth, but on the DL it's an unspeakable sin to have anything less than the most expensive depth in the league. You really think paying the likes of Tim Settle and Jordan Phillips will be more impactful than say a Curtis Samuel?

It is a choice.  The choice is where is the best place to spend limited FA cap dollars.  Do you spend on your 4/5 receiving option or do you spend it on starters at safety and D Line?  Beane and McDermott will spend it on the D as they should, because that's where the biggest holes in the roster are.

 

The math is pretty straightforward.  The Bills need to cut another 71 million from the current cap figure to get cap compliant, have at least 10 million to sign their draft picks, and have money left over to acquire about 14 FAs to complete the 53-man roster.  Currently, Spotrac.com has us at 41 million over the cap.  Of the current guys under contract (regular and futures) you can probably estimate that about 33-35 will be on next year's team (cost about 225 million).  Add the 6 draftees for $10 million and that leaves only 20 million to sign 12-14 players.  That does not leave much room to spend $6 million on a 4th receiving option.  Sorry!  If we have $50 million in cap space, I'd say go for it, but someone once told me that math always wins.  The math is saying we just don't have the cap space. 

Edited February 29 by GASabresIUFan

[2003Contenders]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

You seem to think it's a choice between signing a decent WR or drafting one high. I'm saying do both. Solve the problem once and for all and leave no doubt. What if the 1st round pick isn't immediately ready? What if we suffer an injury? I don't understand why we have been scraping out the dregs when it comes to WR depth, but on the DL it's an unspeakable sin to have anything less than the most expensive depth in the league. You really think paying the likes of Tim Settle and Jordan Phillips will be more impactful than say a Curtis Samuel?

I agree. Also just looking at the sheer numbers, Diggs and Shakir are the only receivers that are certain to return next season (and some folks aren't even certain about Diggs).

 

That means that is is necessary to replace Davis and Sherfield who are likely gone (and possibly Harty too). I am hopeful that Shorter will be a piece of that puzzle -- but that is far from a sure thing.

 

We clearly do not have the cap $ to pursue a top free agent receiver but someone like Samuel or Mooney makes sense in addition to an early draft pick.

[GunnerBill]

24 minutes ago, Westside said:

Are you saying Douglas is toast? If yes, I strongly disagree. He was our best cb last year hands down. Not even close

If not, then I apologize for not understanding and commenting on that misunderstanding. If not Douglas though, then who?

 

No. Von. 

[TheFunPolice]

I have never understood the term "luxury pick"

 

Do we want to WIN a Super Bowl or not? 

 

That term suggests that we're just trying to survive, man, and do some stuff here and there. 

 

Meanwhile, the Bengals will draft another WR and have like 5 #1 WR for Burrow and continue to beat us in the playoffs while we settle for the Gentleman's B in life. 

 

Being great and winning it all requires some guts. 

Edited February 29 by TheFunPolice

[ColoradoBills]

23 hours ago, GASabresIUFan said:

Douglas isn’t being released.  If he isn’t going to return, he is going to be traded.  He is under contract for next year and we should get at least the 3rd we traded for him back.  
 

That said, I think he’ll be back.  You don’t trade for a guy with term, who then played very well for you, then just dump him on the side of the road.  
 

Odds favor an extension, but maybe both sides are having trouble getting to a meeting of the minds on $ and term.  
 

People are reading to much into Beane usage of past tense.  He was describing how Douglas played last season.  He was also describing meeting him last year.  Both of those events are in the past. Should have said he was looking forward to having him next season? Maybe, but since when does Beane care about the niceties? 
 

This could drag on for a while. Beane doesn’t have do anything with Douglas.  Rasul is under contract.  There is no cap cost to release or trade him.  With the higher cap Beane may not have the urgency to extend Douglas as we all originally thought.  Beane may now have the luxury of waiting to see how White recovers and/or how Elam progresses in the off-season workouts.  

 

Best explanation of the Douglas situation that I have read so far.  Thank you.

 

I would add that if anything, Beane probably had a long term $ number in mind for the extension BUT after Douglas's play that number may

have gone up significantly.  If it has it means his trade value (3rd and 5th) has gone up or at least remains the same.  This talk of Beane

cutting him is insane.

 

If Beane thinks he may have to deal off Douglas, he may have multiple teams interested.  It didn't take me long to look at this year's 3rd

round early picks to see a team like the Cardinals needing a vet CB.  Dealing pick #91 and getting back an early 3rd round pick is a net plus.

 

It will be interesting to see what ultimately happens.

[HappyDays]

2 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

First, the Bills were 8th in the league in yards passing per game, 7th in TDs. 

 

Yeah I'm just not impressed by 8th or 7th. With Jared Goff as your QB that's an impressive ranking. With Josh Allen it's below par. And I don't even care about the rankings that much, the schedule and different game situations have a big effect on that.

 

It is a fact though that each of the past few seasons has featured a midseason slump from the passing offense which has directly contributed to us missing out on the #1 seed. Those slumps typically have featured below par production from the WRs. This year against the Chiefs in the playoffs we got nothing from our WRs other than Shakir. Again this directly contributed to us losing the game. Enough is enough.

 

2 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

After all, it's pretty clear that what works in the NFL these days is having a lot of guys on the field who can execute an offense that attacks what the defense gives them.

 

I couldn't agree more. That's why I'm a proponent of overstocking the WR room for the first time since 2020 when the passing offense was clearly the best in the Josh Allen era.

 

I've said before that adding pass catching talent is the easiest means to making a significant improvement on the team. Diggs, Beasley, and Brown all had career years here. Kincaid came in as a rookie and immediately broke a couple franchise records. What have all our depth DL signings amounted to? Nothing meaningful. With Allen as our QB we should have an offense capable of out scoring any team through sheer firepower. And we should be able to overcome a few bumps and bruises to our WR corps in the middle of the season.

 

Edited February 29 by HappyDays

[MasterStrategist]

1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

Hey, Hap -  You've always got interesting takes on things, and this WR vs. dline comment is another.  It's compelling, but I'm not sure it's right.  Might be, and I can't prove it's wrong, but I look at a different way. 

 

First, the Bills were 8th in the league in yards passing per game, 7th in TDs.  20 yards per game behind the Dolphins, 15 behind the Lions, who were #2, and 2 yards per game behind the Chiefs.  My suspicion (not original) is that Diggs was injured for the second half of the season; had he played up to his usual standards, the Bills would have had 10 more yards per game, on average, for the season.  That tells me that there is not a massive hole in the receiving corps.  It's hard to say that the Bills have had a serious negative impact on the passing game because of what you consider an under-allocation of resources to the position.  I say this because unless they add the replacement for Diggs in the first round and he turns into an immediate stud, no one should expect that the Bills are going to get more than 800-900 yards out of their number 2.  If that's the case, the Bills aren't far away.  Factor in likely increased production out of Kincaid, and I just don't see a huge hole.  

 

Second, I'm not saying the Bills don't need receiving help; ideally, the Bills get a #1 receiver in the first round, pair him with Diggs for a year or two, and then move on from Diggs.  However, if they don't hit a homerun and have the luxury of starting two #1s in 2024, they don't need a lot of talent to continue in the top 10 in passing or even move up into the top 5.  I think it depends much more on Brady than on getting some stud to be another target - again, I'd welcome the stud, but I don't see that he's crucial.  

 

Third, you clearly have a different philosophy about how to build a successful team.  Beane and McDermott are all in on the defensive line rotation and getting pressure with four, and that philosophy therefore demands that resources go there.  That's eight players who need to be impactful, and that has a cost associated with it.  The Bills were 7th in passing yards allowed per game, second in TDs allowed, and fourth in sacks.  That's at least some evidence that the allocation of resources to the Dline makes sense.   I've always questioned the rotation, because by needing 8, it's difficult to allocate spending to a true stud in middle, and that's the kind of player who can have out-sized impact on games.  But as I say, I've been able to live with the rotation because it has gotten results.  

 

Finally (and back to #2), I think we all tend to look at the long term less critically and less thoroughly than McDermott and Beane do.  At this time of year, they're thinking a lot about the 2025 and 2026 roster as they consider their choices, because their intention is that the Bills will be good next season AND in the seasons beyond.  One of their big issues has to be who will be the #1 receiver in the future, and how are they going to fill the position?    One answer is exactly as you say - get that guy this year, hope he can be a solid #2 by mid-season, and get a free agent who can help in the draft pick isn't the guy, or isn't the guy yet.  But for all we know, McBeane see what works best for the long term is to plan to get that receiver in the 2025 draft.  They may already be considering how they can stockpile picks in order to trade up.  I don't have any idea, but I think there's more of a plan at work here than I can see.  

 

Having said that, what I hope to see in 2024 is a #2 receiver with decent deep speed, good route running ability, reliable hands.   I want a guy like Shakir but with better size.   He'll run routes better than Davis and will be a regular threat in the offense.  He doesn't have to be great; he has to be smart with enough speed.  After all, it's pretty clear that what works in the NFL these days is having a lot of guys on the field who can execute an offense that attacks what the defense gives them.  With the Cook/Allen run threat, the defense has to give up space elsewhere, and the Bills need a scheme (Brady) and the receivers (Diggs, Shakier, Kincaid, and one more) to attack that space.  

Completely agree, that you're stating facts about what we've done in recent past.

 

But, I think last year was a perfect example of Diggs having to play through injury because we had absolutely nobody to step up.  Davis down against Chiefs, and we were relying on Josh/ground attack to move the ball.  This offense will be next level/potentially elite with a 1st round WR and a 4th WR via FA. 

 

That's counting on 1st rounder panning out, but recent history has shown the top prospects contribute immediately (and this is a VERY deep class).  Kincaid/Cook/Shakir each taking a step forward.

 

I expect FA to fill holes on DL and depending if we cut Poyer, then a S.  We'd be smart to cut some guys, ie: Harty, Morse, Poyer, Tre and sign 1 starter at S, 1 WR (Wr4 type), and bring back Jones.  Use remaining cap on depth at DL.  Then WR 1st round, S or DE 2nd and 3rd, then depth at DT and RB later in draft.  Beane can restructure and maneuver some 1 year deals to "push" some cap to next couple years.

[Don Otreply]

16 hours ago, Gunsgoodtime said:

Plus a 6th for our free punter to Kc, plus Floyd's total loss of voided cap, the excuses go on and on to defend a team who has underachieved 

Actually I would say the team over achieved this past season, considering all the injuries to key personnel and others,  plus an OC that needed to be fired mid season, those injuries and the former OC are the reasons the team as a whole over achieved. How often does a team with those issues win their division and go to the playoffs? Your monocular view is flawed to a noticeable degree. 

[Shaw66]

2 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

Yeah I'm just not impressed by 8th or 7th. With Jared Goff as your QB that's an impressive ranking. With Josh Allen it's below par. And I don't even care about the rankings that much, the schedule and different game situations have a big effect on that.

 

It is a fact though that each of the past few seasons has featured a midseason slump from the passing offense which has directly contributed to us missing out on the #1 seed. Those slumps typically have featured below par production from the WRs. This year against the Chiefs in the playoffs we got nothing from our WRs other than Shakir. Again this directly contributed to us losing the game. Enough is enough.

 

 

I couldn't agree more. That's why I'm a proponent of overstocking the WR room for the first time since 2020 when the passing offense was clearly the best in the Josh Allen era.

 

I've said before that adding pass catching talent is the easiest means to making a significant improvement on the team. Diggs, Beasley, and Brown all had career years here. Kincaid came in as a rookie and immediately broke a couple franchise records. What have all our depth DL signings amounted to? Nothing meaningful. With Allen as our QB we should have an offense capable of out scoring any team through sheer firepower. And we should be able to overcome a few bumps and bruises to our WR corps in the middle of the season.

 

As usual, I don't disagree with much you have to say, except that you seem value talent over coaching, and I'm the opposite.   Assuming Diggs returns to form, a decent number two receiver will thrive in this offense IF Brady runs an effective passing game, as a play designer, a game planner, and an offensive game manager.  If Brady doesn't do that, I don't think it matters all that much how talented the #2 guy is.  At the end of the season, scheme wins out over talent.  

[Westside]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

No. Von. 

My apologies. I agree with that sentiment.

[billsfan89]

For once they don’t need to draft Oline early esp if Mitch is back for one more year I think they may need some mid round depth along the offensive line but no glaring holes for once.

 

I suspect the Bills will go WR round 1 and defensive line round 2. Then pretty much BPA the rest of the way. 

[QCity]

I think people are reading too much into the Douglas "past tense" quotes. And aside from the occasional slip-up, Beane isn't nearly the straight shooter many think he is.

[wettlaufer]

12 hours ago, eball said:

Sure, let’s cut one of the best players at his position — and one who fits this particular defense perfectly. That makes sense. 
 

 

There are no easy decisions here. But sure, your sarcasm is a really helpful contribution the discussion.

[Jay_Fixit]

I saw him mouth the words Michael Floyd.

[hondo in seattle]

On 2/28/2024 at 6:47 AM, Einstein said:

It may be the prudent move to let Douglas walk considering his age.

 

I just don’t know what our CB room is going to be like without him?

 

Tre coming off 2 ACL injuries, Benford who is often injured, and Elam?

 

Yikes.

 

In today's pass-happy NFL, it's good to have an elite secondary.  And I remember when we had one with Hyde and Poyer on the backend and Tre as one of the corners.  

 

I'm afraid we're going into the 2024 season with a secondary that's much less than elite with the safeties and Tre (if we even keep them) now beyond their prime.  Releasing Douglas doesn't help.  

 

Yikes, indeed.  

 

 

[eball]

1 hour ago, wettlaufer said:

 

There are no easy decisions here. But sure, your sarcasm is a really helpful contribution the discussion.

 

One very easy decision is not to suggest cutting an integral part of the defense who is under contract and in his prime.

 

[BillsFanForever19]

6 hours ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

I like your trade idea but don't believe he's worth a 3rd even for a 5th . Jalen Ramsey was traded for a 3rd last yr and in the off-season the price is lower for Douglas.

 

I mean, there's a big difference between getting a 3rd straight up vs. getting a 3rd when you're giving them a player AND a 5th.

 

Ramsey was also costing a LOT more money and cap space in the future and removing a lot of cap from the trading team, which factors into compensation.

 

A 3rd for Douglas and a 5th is the price we paid. There was at least one other team in on him when we did. Offseason or Midseason, I don't think the price would drop too terribly much. But whatever we can get, I'd much rather see us get some kind of return as giving up a 3rd for just a half of a season of play is a little rough.

[3rdand12]

21 hours ago, BillsFan130 said:

No I know, I was just responding to the comment where it said it would be ridiculous to get rid of Douglas.

 

The more I think about it, the more I think it's possible- especially if Douglas is asking for a massive extension and the bills can save 10 mil with 0 dead cap

 

My thought , is that we dont know what Beanes crystal ball is showing him
if he is healthy and we can fit him into the new cap, age considered. I hope Beane would

My confidence level in the secondary ( at this moment is low)  Due to age and contracts.
 Need to bring in some youth he can be coached up quickly I guess if Bills cannot spend on seasoned vet such as Rasul again.

21 hours ago, RyanC883 said:

CB in round 1 incoming. Don’t like it but if Douglas os gone and a top 3 CB is there I think it’s what happens.  

Bills dont pick CBs well currently. ex  Elam

So no to round 1 or 2. imho

WRS yes round 1 and two lol

[GoBills808]

On 2/28/2024 at 9:13 AM, HappyDays said:

 

I actually don't want Beane thinking like this. We have an extra $12.9 million to work with which is huge. But DON'T use that money to keep older players that he otherwise would have cut. I would still make the exact same cuts/restructures we would have made with the cap being at $242M like expected, and then use the $12.9M to sign a real difference maker in FA (specifically at WR or EDGE).

 

As an example I still want us to cut Morse. To me this a no brainer move. Ditto for White. I worry Beane will see the cap increase and think he can keep Morse/White, or hand out one of his never-a-good-idea paycuts. I hope he stays the course and uses the extra cap space wisely. Please don't use it as an excuse to just run it all back.

if this video is any indication you (and me) are going to be disappointed

 

 

[HurlyBurly51]

3 hours ago, QCity said:

I think people are reading too much into the Douglas "past tense" quotes. And aside from the occasional slip-up, Beane isn't nearly the straight shooter many think he is.

Absolutely!!  I can't believe how that interpretation has taken off.  Quite a stretch for a few words: "I liked what he brought to our defense" and "it was a pleasure getting to know him."  I guess he should have said "brings" not "brought" 😂  but at least he didn't say "it was a pleasure, nice knowing ya"😅

 

Just for the sake of another viewpoint, and that's all it is so take it for what it's worth, here's Buscaglia's take on Rasul: "Currently, the only thing guaranteed is Douglas on the team for 2024."  I'd put more stock in that over some wild internet speculation twisting his words.

[Beck Water]

On 2/28/2024 at 8:31 AM, HappyDays said:

 

I've heard rumblings that Butler and McDermott didn't see eye to eye on Elam's usage. Butler didn't get along with Elam. That may be one reason he left. And it makes me wonder if McDermott is going to force the issue with Elam this year which would make Douglas somewhat redundant.

 

I'm not sure Douglas is redundant even if Elam can start.  We really don't know what's going to be "up" with Tre White.  

He's got $16.4M cap if he plays, $10.4M dead cap if he's cut or traded.  Something like 40% of players don't return to play according to this (relatively limited) article, and those who do are apparently impacted the season following their injury.  $16.4M is a lot to pay for a guy who may be playing at a backup level.

 

It would be very un-Beane-like to give up a 3rd round pick (even with a 5th back) for a half-season rental.  Douglas has a $9.9M cap hit with no dead money.

 

I think we keep either or, but not both.

 

 

On 2/28/2024 at 7:55 AM, GunnerBill said:

3. Rasul Douglas is not the absolute lock to be back I think most of us assumed. He twice went immediately to past tense when talking about him "I liked what he brought to our defense" and "it was a pleasure getting to know him." Now neither of those definitely mean he is gone, but there are ways of making those same points without phrasing in the past tense and as I said at the start sometimes Beane tells you more than he means to. It definitely made my ears prick up. He is almost $10m of pure savings with zero dead cap if they cut him. I'm not saying I expect them to but I thought the tense he used was interesting. 

 

I think you might be reading in a bit much here, though I agree tone of voice, facial expression and etc might strengthen the significance you attach.  But if I'm talking about (say) meeting a new coworker that I just spent 3 months on a project with but am now not in the same building, I would say "it was a pleasure getting to know him" not "it is a pleasure getting to know him".  If we're talking about the defense we had last year, it may not be significant to say "I liked what he brought".  I'd have to listen to old Beane pressers where he talks about other players.

 

I don't think he's an absolute lock - I think it's Douglas OR White, either or not both.  But I'm not sure this is significant.

[wettlaufer]

2 hours ago, eball said:

 

One very easy decision is not to suggest cutting an integral part of the defense who is under contract and in his prime.

 

He has one year left. Like Douglas. Outside corner is more important than nickel in this transition year. Or are you suggesting starting Elam, as I have seen others do? The cuts are going to suck any way we slice it. This is more a choice between Douglas and Johnson and the difficult choice I would make is keep Johnson for the season. There are many variables here, not just the one of "he's good!"

[Cash]

10 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

Yeah I'm just not impressed by 8th or 7th. With Jared Goff as your QB that's an impressive ranking. With Josh Allen it's below par. And I don't even care about the rankings that much, the schedule and different game situations have a big effect on that.

 

It is a fact though that each of the past few seasons has featured a midseason slump from the passing offense which has directly contributed to us missing out on the #1 seed. Those slumps typically have featured below par production from the WRs. This year against the Chiefs in the playoffs we got nothing from our WRs other than Shakir. Again this directly contributed to us losing the game. Enough is enough.

 

 

I couldn't agree more. That's why I'm a proponent of overstocking the WR room for the first time since 2020 when the passing offense was clearly the best in the Josh Allen era.

 

I've said before that adding pass catching talent is the easiest means to making a significant improvement on the team. Diggs, Beasley, and Brown all had career years here. Kincaid came in as a rookie and immediately broke a couple franchise records. What have all our depth DL signings amounted to? Nothing meaningful. With Allen as our QB we should have an offense capable of out scoring any team through sheer firepower. And we should be able to overcome a few bumps and bruises to our WR corps in the middle of the season.

 

I largely agree on this. Like I’ve said elsewhere on this board, I’m basically ready to punt on the idea of pressuring Mahomes in the playoffs. It’s been about 3 straight years of throwing huge resources at the pass rush with nothing to show for it in the playoffs. If those moves had panned out, they’d have been great, and maybe it just comes down to Von Miller getting hurt. But they didn’t pan out, and I think it’s fair to say we try a different tack at this point. 
 

Hap is right that we’ve had a mid season swoon for a while now, and since Daboll left we’ve had big consistency problems on offense. I think it’s fair to ask for a better overall coaching ouevre next year, especially on offense. And that could help a lot, regardless of talent. But I don’t think we’re gonna get Andy Reid level coaching anytime soon. And Spags is back for at least one more year. If we face them in the playoffs again, he’s gonna be willing to play press man and dare our guys to win those 1 on 1s. Up till recently, Diggs was that guy, and would feast when any DC tried that. Diggs wasn’t that guy down the stretch. The best case (plausible) scenario is that he was playing hurt. If that’s true, then we really need a second guy in case Diggs gets hurt again. The other plausible scenario is that Diggs is starting to show signs of slowing down. And if that’s true, we ESPECIALLY need another guy. 
 

Having said all that, I just want to point out that Leonard Floyd and Deonte Harty each signed for about $9 million, right? Some of the WR names I’ve seen thrown around could very easily be worse than Harty, and Floyd absolutely helped us win games. So I’m a little more agnostic on where those few veteran FA dollars should go. I just want them to be well spent in hindsight. 
 

My bottom line: I still think we need to commit significant resources to the offensive skill players, most notably at WR. Unless someone crazy falls all the way to us, our first draft pick should be a WR. And I’d have no problem if they went WR again in round 2 or 3.

 

Hypothetical question: What if we drafted a repeat of 2013? Basically meaning we draft this year’s versions of Robert Woods and Marquise Goodwin? I’m not sure if I’d be happy or disappointed. 

 

[Nephilim17]

On 3/1/2024 at 12:37 AM, Cash said:

I largely agree on this. Like I’ve said elsewhere on this board, I’m basically ready to punt on the idea of pressuring Mahomes in the playoffs. It’s been about 3 straight years of throwing huge resources at the pass rush with nothing to show for it in the playoffs. If those moves had panned out, they’d have been great, and maybe it just comes down to Von Miller getting hurt. But they didn’t pan out, and I think it’s fair to say we try a different tack at this point. 
 

Hap is right that we’ve had a mid season swoon for a while now, and since Daboll left we’ve had big consistency problems on offense. I think it’s fair to ask for a better overall coaching ouevre next year, especially on offense. And that could help a lot, regardless of talent. But I don’t think we’re gonna get Andy Reid level coaching anytime soon. And Spags is back for at least one more year. If we face them in the playoffs again, he’s gonna be willing to play press man and dare our guys to win those 1 on 1s. Up till recently, Diggs was that guy, and would feast when any DC tried that. Diggs wasn’t that guy down the stretch. The best case (plausible) scenario is that he was playing hurt. If that’s true, then we really need a second guy in case Diggs gets hurt again. The other plausible scenario is that Diggs is starting to show signs of slowing down. And if that’s true, we ESPECIALLY need another guy. 
 

Having said all that, I just want to point out that Leonard Floyd and Deonte Harty each signed for about $9 million, right? Some of the WR names I’ve seen thrown around could very easily be worse than Harty, and Floyd absolutely helped us win games. So I’m a little more agnostic on where those few veteran FA dollars should go. I just want them to be well spent in hindsight. 
 

My bottom line: I still think we need to commit significant resources to the offensive skill players, most notably at WR. Unless someone crazy falls all the way to us, our first draft pick should be a WR. And I’d have no problem if they went WR again in round 2 or 3.

 

Hypothetical question: What if we drafted a repeat of 2013? Basically meaning we draft this year’s versions of Robert Woods and Marquise Goodwin? I’m not sure if I’d be happy or disappointed. 

 

Harty's deal was 9.5 million but for two years. Floyd's was up to $9 million for one year, based on incentives. Vastly different deals.

[John from Riverside]

On 2/28/2024 at 6:47 AM, Einstein said:

It may be the prudent move to let Douglas walk considering his age.

 

I just don’t know what our CB room is going to be like without him?

 

Tre coming off 2 ACL injuries, Benford who is often injured, and Elam?

 

Yikes.

I would not do this Rasoul Douglas is playing at a very high-level extend him