Another reason to fire McDermott

[Gregg]

2 minutes ago, Patrick Fitzryan said:

He's a loser that openly rejects the idea to build around his starting QB in favor of his beloved defense, which coincidentally happens to fold during any important playoff game. The trajectories of Allen's and Mahomes' careers are solely due to their respective coaches.

 

The playoff loses have gotten old. I give him credit for changing the culture of the Bills from a losing one to a winning one. There has been a lot of regular season winning as the 4 straight division titles prove that. But the playoff losses are what people remember most. Sean McDermott is this generations, Marty Schottenheimer. Good regular season coach but can't get it done when it matters most.

[Mat68]

12 minutes ago, FireChans said:

We would beat KC every year (honestly they probably wouldn’t even meet us in the postseason) if they didn’t have Mahomes at QB. Despite it being a team sport, we gave them the GOAT at the most important position. 

 

This is wildly inaccurate.  Without Mahomes the Chiefs where division winners had a first rd bye.  Mahomes is great but so are the Chiefs.  Mahomes on the Bills with everything else the same does not make Buffalo 3 time super-bowl champions.  

[Captain Hindsight]

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

The Bills traded pick #10 to the Chiefs who selected Mahomes. If they didn’t do that, there’s no guarantee that Mahomes is a Chief today. 
 

It’s great that we got Tre, Dawkins, Zay Jones (lol), Edmunds (lol) and Neal (lol). When does the parade start? 

If they don’t make that trade, Mahomes is probably a saint. Supposedly, Sean Peyton loved Mahomes and was going to take him at 11

[FireChans]

6 minutes ago, Mat68 said:

This is wildly inaccurate.  Without Mahomes the Chiefs where division winners had a first rd bye.  Mahomes is great but so are the Chiefs.  Mahomes on the Bills with everything else the same does not make Buffalo 3 time super-bowl champions.  

How many times did they make the AFCCG without Patrick lol

[FireChans]

6 minutes ago, Captain Hindsight said:

If they don’t make that trade, Mahomes is probably a saint. Supposedly, Sean Peyton loved Mahomes and was going to take him at 11

God that would have been glorious. The exact kind of franchise to have a good enough team but not a great team.

[Mat68]

Just now, FireChans said:

How many times did they make the AFCCG without Patrick lol

They got a significant improvement at Qb.  Mahomes is not a significant upgrade over Allen.  Alex Smith is and was a game manger.  Mahomes walked into a ready made team.  Buffalo has been playing catch up everywhere else since drafting Allen.  
 

I put more into KC’s ability to pivot personal and Buffalo is holding on too long.  In a blink KC oline became a strength that was a weakness.  Now the defense became a strength that was a weakness.  Assume the offense will have the same improvement.  Those things have nothing to do with QB.  

[PBF81]

4 hours ago, boyst said:

i'd rather have josh and not just because josh is better at the position than mahomes but because mahomes is a whinny entitled brat who needs his fast punched repeatedly until he resembles an arbies 5 for $5.

 

if you want to blame mcd blame him for not being able to play basic defense.

 

... in the playoffs.  

 

Also, he's a coach that does not understand offense, admittedly now.  It's unimaginable how that's not a show-stopping inpediment when the single biggest strength of your team is your QB.  I still hang up at how on earth, and being the only one in the world, he stood behind Peterman over Allen back then.  

 

At the end of the day the question that needs to be continually asked, is are we getting the utmost from our QB and the offense that surrounds him?  And relatedly, have we done all that we can to support that offense that's around him?  

 

If not, then why not, and whether or not that's the best approach for an Allen-centric team?  

 

Plain and simple.  

 

 

Edited February 12 by PBF81

[Low Positive]

Here's NFL.com's immediate post-draft reaction to the Mahomes pick. The Bills didn't pass on a sure thing like Joe Burrow. They passed on a risky gunslinger from an air raid offense. That risk sure as heck worked out for the Chiefs, but it was a risk. 

Quote

Chiefs GM John Dorsey and head coach Andy Reid saw Brett Favre in Green Bay, and they have to see some of that gunslinger attitude in Mahomes. There is a risk factor here given his penchant for throwing the ball anywhere and from any arm angle (which will turn into interceptions in the NFL), and they have up a future first-round pick to get him. But if anyone can get Mahomes to adjust and succeed, it's Reid. 

 

BTW, why the panic around here today? I knew as soon as they beat the Bills that the Chiefs were winning it all. There was no way that Baltimore could beat them wtih playoff Lamar and the 49ers should have lost to both the Packers and Lions. I mean, Brock Purdy didn't complete a pass in the third quarter (an exaggeration, but it felt like that) and the Niners still almost won. 

[Bruffalo]

This is just getting silly. 

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, Mat68 said:

They got a significant improvement at Qb.  Mahomes is not a significant upgrade over Allen.  Alex Smith is and was a game manger.  Mahomes walked into a ready made team.  Buffalo has been playing catch up everywhere else since drafting Allen.  
 

I put more into KC’s ability to pivot personal and Buffalo is holding on too long.  In a blink KC oline became a strength that was a weakness.  Now the defense became a strength that was a weakness.  Assume the offense will have the same improvement.  Those things have nothing to do with QB.  

How did Mahomes walk into a ready made team? Did a certain team trade a pick to KC enabling them to draft him? 

You’re proving my point for me lol

[djp14150]

4 hours ago, Watkins90 said:

This whole Chiefs dynasty falls on one man and one man only, in hindsight. 

Sean McDermott

 

He is the one who traded the pick to KC that they used to take Mahomes because he "hadn't had time to study the QB class" even though his owner wanted Mahomes. 

 

I literally felt like he should have been fired last night for making us all endure this. If Mahomes comes to Buffalo in 2017, he never turns into the QB he did. 

herr I thought it was because we don’t have swifties following our team…..

[colin]

trading the mahomes pick was obv a horrible move, but im convinced allen is better.

 

in the TB super bowl, mahomes didn't have good protection and couldn't buy a play even with hill and kelce.  once the OL faltered, so did he.  allen makes plays with unblocked guys every sunday, and allen is the only guy bring the heat in the playoffs on this team.

 

 

kc has had brilliant roster management and lots of luck and great coaching.  our biggest issue is staying old and expensive on D, not to mention that aged and costly d folding so hard every playoffs.

[beer can shower]

1 hour ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

This revisionist history is getting ridiculous there is no guarantee with Brian Daboll , Rick Dennison, or Ken Dorsey running the show that Patrick would get where he is…my goodness Josh has played with some rough coordinators.

Thing is the very next year cause of Nick Chubb Josh isn’t a Denver Bronco right now and the Bills don’t have the “right Josh” and McDermott and Beane have already been fired for drafting him. 
 

So step back and realize no one knew about Patrick in that draft. Just like the Denver Broncos didn’t realize what they passed on when they passed on Josh Allen.

Yes, teams did know about Pat Mahomes. And not just KC.  And  if you were a coach and Andy Reid and/or the  GM called you to trade up,wouldn't you wonder who they wanted.  Then when they got a call from Houston.
      McDermott I believe was hired in January, plenty of time before the draft to review their needs and review scouting reports.
     And as to you saying with those coaches running the show, if  you  did your work why would you even hire those people to bring along a talent like Pat Mahomes.
https://www.si.com/nfl/2022/03/05/patrick-mahomes-andy-reid-brett-veach-scouting-nfl-draft
    

[Warcodered]

Man I can't believe the Bills lost again this week.

[Ga boy]

1 hour ago, Mat68 said:

Trade Allen for Mahomes does what exactly? Qb is not the reason Buffalo hasn't won a Superbowl in the last 4 years.  

Chiefs found a willing partner to trade to 10.  McDermott’s ties with Reid might have factored in.  Wouldn’t you help a guy who probably put in a good recommendation for you to get HC job?  Many other NFL coaches might have passed.  In hindsight, I do agree that you don’t make that trade to a powerhouse in your own conference … but did most coaches know what we now know about Mahomey??

[cgg716]

Resources to offense, the pivot Sean will never make because it would require actual accountability from him. Step 1 this off-season, trade Milano 

[djp14150]

4 hours ago, Watkins90 said:

This whole Chiefs dynasty falls on one man and one man only, in hindsight. 

Sean McDermott

 

He is the one who traded the pick to KC that they used to take Mahomes because he "hadn't had time to study the QB class" even though his owner wanted Mahomes. 

 

I literally felt like he should have been fired last night for making us all endure this. If Mahomes comes to Buffalo in 2017, he never turns into the QB he did. 

flawed…

 

there we’re questions on Mahomes many had

would he have been a good fit here where the offense might not fit his strengths ?

[SoTier]

3 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

You want Terry to fire his head coach because of a decision seven years ago that the owner ultimately signed off on?

 

Yes it was probably the worst trade in NFL history but it’s too late to fire someone over it.

 

Sorry, but even in hindsight, there is no way that the Bills trading away the ninth pick in the 2017 draft was the "worst trade in NFL history"!   It wasn't even the worst trade in the 2017 draft!  The Chicago Bears traded four picks to the 49ers (#3, #67, and #111 in 2017 and their 2018 third round pick) to move up to #2 in 2017 to take Mitch Trubisky.

 

In contrast, the Bills used KC's 2017 first round pick acquired to draft All Pro cornerback Tre White, and then used the picks they collected from KC in 2018 plus other draft capital to acquire Josh Allen (#7) and Tremaine Edwards (#16) in the first round of the 2018 draft.

 

 

[Ramza86]

4 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Of all the BS takes on this forum, the “Mahomes wouldn’t be a winner in Buffalo” is probably the worst.  An unprovable, baseless take.  Just so sick of seeing it.

 

I personally think wed be getting bounced out of the playoffs every year by Josh Allen and the Chiefs if the Bills and Chiefs swapped qbs with the same timeline.

[billsfan_34]

4 hours ago, Einstein said:

I don’t know how anyone can watch that game last night and come away thinking Mahomes is why they won.

 

Both TD’s were wide open throws. I actually thought Mahomes looked fairly pedestrian.

 

Its too bad the 49er defensive player couldn’t hold on to the INT Mahomes threw to him that may have sealed the game in regulation.

Still passed for over 300 yards, ran for a bunch, and was unflappable. I am not a Mahomes supporter but the guy wins big games and is calm under pressure.

[TheBrownBear]

Just think, in that alternate universe, we could have watched GOAT KC QB Josh Allen hoisting the trophy with Kelce last night.

[beer can shower]

4 minutes ago, djp14150 said:

would he have been a good fit here where the offense might not fit his strengths ?

One would think when drafting  the QB the Coach would build a Team around that Quarterback with Mahomes talent rather than place him in the existing offense.

[Mark Vader]

4 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

You want Terry to fire his head coach because of a decision seven years ago that the owner ultimately signed off on?

 

Yes it was probably the worst trade in NFL history but it’s too late to fire someone over it.

Herschel Walker is still the worst trade in NFL history, and it's not close.

[dma0034]

I blame the Bears for picking Trubinsky over Mahomes

[AZSanta]

4 hours ago, Watkins90 said:

This whole Chiefs dynasty falls on one man and one man only, in hindsight. 

Sean McDermott

 

He is the one who traded the pick to KC that they used to take Mahomes because he "hadn't had time to study the QB class" even though his owner wanted Mahomes. 

 

I literally felt like he should have been fired last night for making us all endure this. If Mahomes comes to Buffalo in 2017, he never turns into the QB he did. 

It's a hard kick to my ball sack everytime Mahommes wins the Super Bowl. I just cant anymore with the rotten luck our teams have. 

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

The Bills traded pick #10 to the Chiefs who selected Mahomes. If they didn’t do that, there’s no guarantee that Mahomes is a Chief today. 
 

It’s great that we got Tre, Dawkins, Zay Jones (lol), Edmunds (lol) and Neal (lol). When does the parade start? 

 

No guarantee the Bills would have won any SBs with Mahomes on their own roster or some other than KC.  Plus, the Bills can beat Mahomes/Chiefs.  Just not in the playoffs. 

[Mark Vader]

5 hours ago, Watkins90 said:

This whole Chiefs dynasty falls on one man and one man only, in hindsight. 

Sean McDermott

 

He is the one who traded the pick to KC that they used to take Mahomes because he "hadn't had time to study the QB class" even though his owner wanted Mahomes. 

 

I literally felt like he should have been fired last night for making us all endure this. If Mahomes comes to Buffalo in 2017, he never turns into the QB he did. 

LAMP!

[Motorin']

2 minutes ago, dma0034 said:

I blame the Bears for picking Trubinsky over Mahomes

 

I often wonder what would have happened if we had selected TJ Watt over Tre White, and Cooper Cupp instead of Zay Flowers, and DK Metcalf instead of Cody Ford....

 

You should see my drought years "Hindsight is 20/20" redraft. The Bills would have won 12 out of 17 Super Bowls! 

 

I'm also able to turn $50 into $5 Trillion in just about 50 stock trades, ya know, retroactively. 

[Jauronimo]

4 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Of all the BS takes on this forum, the “Mahomes wouldn’t be a winner in Buffalo” is probably the worst.  An unprovable, baseless take.  Just so sick of seeing it.

Allen was a bigger project than Mahomes coming out and he seems to have turned out just fine. I think Mahomes may have panned out as well in Buffalo.

[SoTier]

15 minutes ago, Ga boy said:

Chiefs found a willing partner to trade to 10.  McDermott’s ties with Reid might have factored in.  Wouldn’t you help a guy who probably put in a good recommendation for you to get HC job?  Many other NFL coaches might have passed.  In hindsight, I do agree that you don’t make that trade to a powerhouse in your own conference … but did most coaches know what we now know about Mahomey??

 

Exactly.  In general, teams find franchise QBs at the very top of the draft, ie, the first five picks.  It's why teams like the Jests, the Bears, and the Niners have traded boatloads of draft picks since 2017 to acquire QB prospects in the top 3 picks, all of whom failed.   The farther down in the first round a QB is picked, the slimmer chances he has of finding great success in the NFL.  Only about half of all first round QBs make successful NFL starters (and not even necessarily a franchise QB).  The 2017 and 2018 drafts were unusual because both produced multiple great QBs from outside the top five:  Mahomes (2017 #10), Allen (2018 #7), Jackson (2018 #32), and Watson (2017 #12)*.   Of the QBs who were drafted before these QBs, only Mayfield (2018 #1) continues to be an NFL starter and has a successful NFL career.   Drafting a QB in the first round, even in the top five, remains a really big gamble.

 

* I included Deshaun Watson for his outstanding play in Houston before his off-field problems and injuries.   He seemed to be starting to get back into form with the Browns before his injury.

[FireChans]

5 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

No guarantee the Bills would have won any SBs with Mahomes on their own roster or some other than KC.  Plus, the Bills can beat Mahomes/Chiefs.  Just not in the playoffs. 

Okay. It’s a guarantee that Patrick Mahomes is the main reason we haven’t played in one yet. Good thing we got Siran Neal and Zay Jones though.

[NastyNateSoldiers]

4 hours ago, Peter said:

Andy Reid should have thanked McDermott on the podium after each of their Super Bowl victories.

 

McDermott did an outstanding job helping the Chiefs create their dynasty while at the same time being a thorn in our side.

 

As I mentioned in another post, if Brandon Bean did not pull out all of the stops to get Josh and if Josh had not developed the way he has, McDermott would have been fired a long time ago and would be remembered as the guy who traded the pick so that the Chiefs could draft Mahomes.

 

McDermott should be VERY thankful that Josh is on the team.

I was thinking the same thing last night while the Chiefs were at the podium. That would've been legendary! 😂

[What a Tuel]

5 hours ago, Watkins90 said:

This whole Chiefs dynasty falls on one man and one man only, in hindsight. 

Sean McDermott

 

He is the one who traded the pick to KC that they used to take Mahomes because he "hadn't had time to study the QB class" even though his owner wanted Mahomes. 

 

I literally felt like he should have been fired last night for making us all endure this. If Mahomes comes to Buffalo in 2017, he never turns into the QB he did. 

 

Do the texans take him instead of watson?

 

110Kansas City ChiefsPatrick Mahomes †QBTexas TechBig 12

from Buffalo [R1 - 4]

112Houston TexansDeshaun Watson †QBClemsonACC

from Philadelphia via Cleveland [R1 - 5]

 

Either way he is likely in the AFC.

[FireChans]

9 minutes ago, What a Tuel said:

 

Do the texans take him instead of watson?

 

110Kansas City ChiefsPatrick Mahomes †QBTexas TechBig 12

from Buffalo [R1 - 4]

112Houston TexansDeshaun Watson †QBClemsonACC

from Philadelphia via Cleveland [R1 - 5]

 

Either way he is likely in the AFC.

He may be, but he wouldn’t be partnered with Reid, Hill, Kelce etc etc. which everyone says is the the reason he was so successful.

[SCBills]

47 minutes ago, billsfan_34 said:

Still passed for over 300 yards, ran for a bunch, and was unflappable. I am not a Mahomes supporter but the guy wins big games and is calm under pressure.

 

If his defense isn't elite, do we talk about how he threw a pick and missed Rashee Rice for the game winning TD?

 

Because it seems we always need to talk about this with Allen due to the defense vomiting all over themselves in these games, thus everything he does is magnified in a loss. 

[FilthyBeast]

5 hours ago, Watkins90 said:

This whole Chiefs dynasty falls on one man and one man only, in hindsight. 

Sean McDermott

 

He is the one who traded the pick to KC that they used to take Mahomes because he "hadn't had time to study the QB class" even though his owner wanted Mahomes. 

 

I literally felt like he should have been fired last night for making us all endure this. If Mahomes comes to Buffalo in 2017, he never turns into the QB he did. 

 

I've said this for some time and people are still going to brush this off for whatever reason.

 

But the bottom line is that even if you look past the obvious in that McDivisional is never going to win a game against Mahomes and other elite QB's in the NFL when it matters in the postseason, the fact he made a true franchise and NFL altering trade with the guy who fired him for being bad at his job is the loudest message you'll ever hear in terms of why he needs to go.

 

Yes we still lucked out and got Josh Allen as part of that deal. But what else did the Bills land in that trade? An overrated, injury prone DB that is going to be out of the league in a few years, certainly not part of this team anymore at best.

 

And if Bills fans aren't sick to their stomach now just wait another 5+ years (and more Mahomes superbowl rings) to truly realize what was wasted keeping this guy around for so long.

 

 

[78thealltimegreat]

1 hour ago, beer can shower said:

Yes, teams did know about Pat Mahomes. And not just KC.  And  if you were a coach and Andy Reid and/or the  GM called you to trade up,wouldn't you wonder who they wanted.  Then when they got a call from Houston.
      McDermott I believe was hired in January, plenty of time before the draft to review their needs and review scouting reports.
     And as to you saying with those coaches running the show, if  you  did your work why would you even hire those people to bring along a talent like Pat Mahomes.
https://www.si.com/nfl/2022/03/05/patrick-mahomes-andy-reid-brett-veach-scouting-nfl-draft
    

Because that’s who McDermott hired as OC and the type of systems he wanted implemented that’s kinda what the head coach does. You can live by revisionist history simple fact is Josh Allen the next year was there for the Denver Broncos they passed on him for Nick Chubb. This happens to every team. 

[Ramza86]

1 hour ago, billsfan_34 said:

Still passed for over 300 yards, ran for a bunch, and was unflappable. I am not a Mahomes supporter but the guy wins big games and is calm under pressure.

 

I think he maybe had two plays that were "good" plays. He didnt do anything that any of the the top QBs in this league couldnt do that whole game.

 

The guy won and did his thing....but good lord....he was just a qb yesterday. I dont wanna hear about his greatness after that game. 

 

Guy throws a lolipop bomb where if that safety didnt lose his memory and forgot that he was an NFL safety that gets caught instead of intercepted.

 

 

 

[beer can shower]

17 minutes ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

Because that’s who McDermott hired as OC and the type of systems he wanted implemented that’s kinda what the head coach does. You can live by revisionist history simple fact is Josh Allen the next year was there for the Denver Broncos they passed on him for Nick Chubb. This happens to every team. 

And Josh Allen was selling Subway at the Super Bowl and Pat Mahomes was MVP.
That's not "revisonist history" that's a fact.

Like it or not.

[Roundybout]

May I quietly point out that Mahomes coming onto a roster with Kelce and Hill is a hell of a lot easier than coming onto a roster with broken Sammy Watkins, Deonte Thompson, and Charles “Hands of” Clay?