Should the Bills trade up for their own “Julio Jones”

[pennstate10]

3 hours ago, BuffaloBill said:

 

Easily a horrible trade and possibly the worst in Buffalo’s history.

Ahh, I’m not sure that touches the Lamonica trade. 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

Yes. Trading up for a WR always works out.

[Jimmy Harris 69]

Lest we forget, the bills traded up for the “privilege “of drafting Zay Jones instead of selecting Cooper Kupp. Zay’s dad was a coach on the bills, which probably blinded our talent scout. Kupp has an insane rookie year while Jones has a regular insane year. 

[thewookie1]

I wouldn’t trade into the top 10 but if one of the Top 3 start falling into the range where we wouldn’t need to trade next year’s 1st than I’d be game. 

[Doc]

17 minutes ago, Jimmy Harris 69 said:

Lest we forget, the bills traded up for the “privilege “of drafting Zay Jones instead of selecting Cooper Kupp. Zay’s dad was a coach on the bills, which probably blinded our talent scout. Kupp has an insane rookie year while Jones has a regular insane year. 

 

It wasn't Jones' dad who was a coach with the Bills in 2017, it was his position coach at ECU Phil McGeoghan.  No doubt he convinced them to draft Jones.

[John from Riverside]

If there is a good group still available into the late 20s just stand at the best unavailable according to your scouting staff

 

Hang onto that second rounder or third rounder or whatever it would take to move up

[SoonerBillsFan]

59 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

Yes. Trading up for a WR always works out.

Sometimes yes, sometimes no.  The trick is trading up for the right WR.

[MiracleAtRich1393]

9 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

When has he done that in his tenure as Bills GM?

Basically with the Diggs trade 🤷

[Richard Noggin]

10 hours ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

No way. This draft is super deep at WR. Remember when we moved up for Sammy Watkins in 2014? OBJ, Mike Evans, and Brandin Cooks were all on the board in the 1st. In the 2nd & 3rd Davante Adams, Jarvis Landry, and John Brown were all available as well. It would be insanely stupid to waste valuable draft capital in a WR class like this. Beane just needs to be smart and find the right ones. 

 

This is an apt analogy. Especially now, the Bills need to roster the majority of their upcoming 10 picks. And if the WR pool is especially deep, then that's even more reason NOT to give away promising day two (or even three) depth chart pipeline and special teams additions to move up and lock in that ONE prospect in the first. We can be reasonably confident there will be a future #1 WR taken at 28 or after in the 2024 draft. And there will be a disappointing WR taken before 28, most likely. So just get it right at 28. 

 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, pennstate10 said:

Ahh, I’m not sure that touches the Lamonica trade. 

 

 

Trading the pick that became Mahomes trumps the Lamonica trade as the worst trade in Bills history.

 

Lamonica never won a SB and didn't really block the Bills success.........as their roster had really aged out in the 1967 season.   

 

Mahomes has eliminated SB contending Bills teams 3 times already and could win his 3rd SB next week.    He's tracking to become the greatest or second greatest QB of all time. 

 

And contrary to popular belief none of the picks acquired in the trade with the Chiefs resulted in the Bills acquiring Josh Allen.   

  

[Richard Noggin]

6 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Trading the pick that became Mahomes trumps the Lamonica trade as the worst trade in Bills history.

 

Lamonica never won a SB and didn't really block the Bills success.........as their roster had really aged out in the 1967 season.   

 

Mahomes has eliminated SB contending Bills teams 3 times already and could win his 3rd SB next week.    He's tracking to become the greatest or second greatest QB of all time. 

 

And contrary to popular belief none of the picks acquired in the trade with the Chiefs resulted in the Bills acquiring Josh Allen.   

  

 

The way I fend off these compelling regrets is by first acknowledging pre-existing regrets that would have surely steepened Mahomes's learning curve in Buffalo (KC was able to essentially redshirt the raw but gifted QB prospect and put him through an intensive QB Camp with Andy Reid, Alex Smith, Brad Childress, Matt Nagy, and Eric Bieniemy to mentor him, whereas the Bills had Rick Dennison as 3rd or 4th choice OC, and effing Juan Castillo as OL coach and David Culley coaching QB for the first time in his career). It's possible that the hyper-cautious Tyrod Taylor would have been a useful counter to the rookie's risky tendencies, but overall it's doubtful that the offensive coaching and on-field talent (those WR/TE rooms were shameful) could have fostered the accelerated development he displayed in KC.

 

The Bills would have gotten LESS out of Mahomes than the Chiefs have seen. A lot less. 

[FireChans]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Trading the pick that became Mahomes trumps the Lamonica trade as the worst trade in Bills history.

 

Lamonica never won a SB and didn't really block the Bills success.........as their roster had really aged out in the 1967 season.   

 

Mahomes has eliminated SB contending Bills teams 3 times already and could win his 3rd SB next week.    He's tracking to become the greatest or second greatest QB of all time. 

 

And contrary to popular belief none of the picks acquired in the trade with the Chiefs resulted in the Bills acquiring Josh Allen.   

  

Does the last paragraph really matter? I mean I guess it would be better than nothing if we needed the Mahomes picks to get Allen and get the second best QB in football, but it’s all for naught if we don’t break through and Mahomes wins the AFC every year regardless.

58 minutes ago, Richard Noggin said:

 

The way I fend off these compelling regrets is by first acknowledging pre-existing regrets that would have surely steepened Mahomes's learning curve in Buffalo (KC was able to essentially redshirt the raw but gifted QB prospect and put him through an intensive QB Camp with Andy Reid, Alex Smith, Brad Childress, Matt Nagy, and Eric Bieniemy to mentor him, whereas the Bills had Rick Dennison as 3rd or 4th choice OC, and effing Juan Castillo as OL coach and David Culley coaching QB for the first time in his career). It's possible that the hyper-cautious Tyrod Taylor would have been a useful counter to the rookie's risky tendencies, but overall it's doubtful that the offensive coaching and on-field talent (those WR/TE rooms were shameful) could have fostered the accelerated development he displayed in KC.

 

The Bills would have gotten LESS out of Mahomes than the Chiefs have seen. A lot less. 

That’s all well and good, but we GAVE Mahomes the perfect situation to stand in our way for 4 years and counting. 
 

Even if we didn’t draft Mahomes, if we don’t make that trade, maybe he goes to the Bill O’Brien Texans, or the Colts, or the NFC or literally any other team without HoF weapons and coaching.

 

The one person who could’ve stopped Mahomes from landing in the perfect situation to dominate us in the postseason was Sean McD. 
 

This is basically our curse of the Bambino.

[Governor]

I say no because rookie WR’s rarely contribute much in their first year, and we’re running out of years with this regime and Josh. 

Edited February 4 by Governor

[Thurman#1]

15 hours ago, DJB said:

In the 2012 draft Atlanta traded up to get Julio Jones. Here is the breakdown of the deal;

 

 #6: Cleveland → Atlanta. (D) Cleveland traded this pick to Atlanta for Atlanta's first (27th overall, which later became #26), second (59th) and fourth-rounder (124th) and also Atlanta's first- and fourth-round selections in 2012.

 

Bills are in win now mode. We need an elite WR to put us over the top. Enter one of Malik Nabers (who I prefer) or Odunze. 
 

Is the time right now to do this with Josh and our window ?

 

Or should I put down the pipe and stick to trashing Tua? 

 

 

No, we're not in win now mode. No more so than any other year. Just because some fans feel that way every year doesn't mean the Bills should. We should go into win now mode when Josh hits 36 or 37 years old.

 

Oh, and saying we "need an elite WR to put us over the top" is absolutely and completely ridiculous. Where is the elite WR on KC this year? Or last year?

 

The fact is most SB winners have either one or zero elite WRs. That's a fact. And more have zero than one

 

The reasonable answer to this question is that it would depend on the price. If we get a terrific bargain, sure.

 

But realistically, we're not going to get a terrific bargain. So, no.

 

A small tradeup of some kind? Sure, go ahead. But we have got to come out of this draft with three or four good players. You don't manage that by trading away most of your best picks.

Edited February 4 by Thurman#1

[NastyNateSoldiers]

14 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

Davis and Shakir overperformed from where they were drafted.  He just hasn't taken enough swings the first two days.  It's pry a combination of the capital given up for the Diggs trade, getting Josh veteran WR free agents early on to help him develop (Beasley, Brown), the draft board just not falling right the last few years, and prioritizing getting younger at other positions (D-line, TE, LB, CB).  Striking out on Elam (most likely) and Basham are on him though when he could've invested at WR.

Beane has a knack for trading up for Busts that tells u he's a horrible GM.

3 hours ago, FireChans said:

Does the last paragraph really matter? I mean I guess it would be better than nothing if we needed the Mahomes picks to get Allen and get the second best QB in football, but it’s all for naught if we don’t break through and Mahomes wins the AFC every year regardless.

That’s all well and good, but we GAVE Mahomes the perfect situation to stand in our way for 4 years and counting. 
 

Even if we didn’t draft Mahomes, if we don’t make that trade, maybe he goes to the Bill O’Brien Texans, or the Colts, or the NFC or literally any other team without HoF weapons and coaching.

 

The one person who could’ve stopped Mahomes from landing in the perfect situation to dominate us in the postseason was Sean McD. 
 

This is basically our curse of the Bambino.

We should've taken Mahomes. I was screaming at the TV 😂 soon after the trade I was nearly in tears . 

[Thurman#1]

13 minutes ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

Beane has a knack for trading up for Busts that tells u he's a horrible GM.

 

 

 

If it tells you that, it's a clear sign that you shouldn't be handing out opinions on the internet

 

Beane is by no means a horrible GM. Anyone who thinks so is to be pitied.

 

He's traded up for Josh Allen, Shakir and Kincaid, among others. He's not perfect at this. Nobody is, absolutely nobody. But he's damn good.

 

 

[NastyNateSoldiers]

Just now, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

If it tells you that, it's a clear sign that you shouldn't be handing out opinions on the internet

 

Beane is by no means a horrible GM. Anyone who thinks so is to be pitied.

 

He's traded up for Josh Allen, Shakir and Kincaid, among others. He's not perfect at this. Nobody is, absolutely nobody. But he's damn good.

 

 

Everyone has an opinion. I don't agree with your take . The fact is he's been horrible in the top rounds picking average at best players and having no feel for the strength or value of the draft. His best pick was Josh Allen but outside of that he's not drafted a single difference maker. Oliver is probably his best pk outside of Allen but hasn't and wasn't even the best player at his position in that draft Simmons, Wilkins & Lawrence have all had better careers so far.  Beane does get better starting in the 3rd round I'll give him that but he's been brutality bad in the first 2rds of the draft. Trading up for Elam and Cody are prime examples of his lack of patience during the draft . Say what u want but facts are facts and Beane has not done a good job during the money rds of the draft and this team is paying for it. 

[Thurman#1]

Oh, and it's generally accepted that the Julio Jones trade was a success.

 

And that's questionable. There's a very legitimate argument that it was a failure.

 

Julio is a terrific player, there can be no reasonable argument against that. But did they give up too much?

 

In 2010, Atlanta went 13-3. They felt they were only a player or two away and made the Julio trade.

 

The next year they went 10-6, despite Julio putting up more than 900 yards. The year after that, 13-3. The year after that, 4-12. That was followed by 6-10, 8-8 and finally the one year they made the Super Bowl but lost to the Patriots in Jones' sixth year. A lot of their problems in those years came down to a lack of good players ... players who might have been on the team if not for the Julio trade.

 

If they win that Super Bowl, the argument's over. But they didn't. Lombardis justify just about any tactic. But they lost.

 

Was the difference between Julio Jones and a replacement guy acquired after #27 or in a trade worth all they gave away?

 

Questionable.

 

 

2 minutes ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

Everyone has an opinion. I don't agree with your take . The fact is he's been horrible in the top rounds picking average at best players and having no feel for the strength or value of the draft. His best pick was Josh Allen but outside of that he's not drafted a single difference maker. Oliver is probably his best pk outside of Allen but hasn't and wasn't even the best player at his position in that draft Simmons, Wilkins & Lawrence have all had better careers so far.  Beane does get better starting in the 3rd round I'll give him that but he's been brutality bad in the first 2rds of the draft. Trading up for Elam and Cody are prime examples of his lack of patience during the draft . Say what u want but facts are facts and Beane has not done a good job during the money rds of the draft and this team is paying for it. 

 

 

Yeah, not agreeing with me makes plenty of sense a pretty fair number of times.

 

But calling Beane "horrible" is disagreeing with anyone with a brain cell count in the triple digits or above. It's dumb.

Edited February 4 by Thurman#1

[MiracleAtRich1393]

15 hours ago, Augie said:

I really shouldn’t have answered, because there is not enough info. What is the cost? Sure, I’d love Marvin Harrison Jr if we only have to kick in a 6th rounder, but that will never happen.  I said no way because I have to assume the cost would be enormous, and we have holes to fill with cheaper, younger guys. We need WR and defense. 

If we want to win it all McDermott will get day 3 safeties and cheap FA fillers on his DL rotation and Josh will get studs 2 deep at every skill position plus OL

[Doc Brown]

3 hours ago, Governor said:

I say no because rookie WR’s rarely contribute much in their first year, and we’re running out of years with this regime and Josh. 

They're more ready now than in the past as college offenses have caught up to the pros a bit.

19 minutes ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

Beane has a knack for trading up for Busts that tells u he's a horrible GM.

Josh Allen or Dalton Kincaid?

[BillsFanForever19]

Just now, Doc Brown said:

Josh Allen or Dalton Kincaid?

 

Not to mention trading up for Khalil Shakir and trading down for James Cook.

[NastyNateSoldiers]

10 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

Oh, and it's generally accepted that the Julio Jones trade was a success.

 

And that's questionable. There's a very legitimate argument that it was a failure.

 

Julio is a terrific player, there can be no reasonable argument against that. But did they give up too much?

 

In 2010, Atlanta went 13-3. They felt they were only a player or two away and made the Julio trade.

 

The next year they went 10-6, despite Julio putting up more than 900 yards. The year after that, 13-3. The year after that, 4-12. That was followed by 6-10, 8-8 and finally the one year they made the Super Bowl but lost to the Patriots in Jones' sixth year. A lot of their problems in those years came down to a lack of good players ... players who might have been on the team if not for the Julio trade.

 

If they win that Super Bowl, the argument's over. But they didn't. Lombardis justify just about any tactic. But they lost.

 

Was the difference between Julio Jones and a replacement guy acquired after #27 or in a trade worth all they gave away?

 

Questionable.

 

 

 

 

Yeah, not agreeing with me makes plenty of sense a pretty fair number of times.

 

But calling Beane "horrible" is disagreeing with anyone with a brain cell count in the triple digits or above. It's dumb.

I guess u don't like facts! Instead u want to try to insult someone for laying them out for you. Every big move outside of Josh Allen that Beane has made has backfired from Von to throwing multiple high picks in the trash. 

 

I'll give him this he did a much better job in last yrs draft at the top with the Kincaid and O'Cyrus picks hopefully this is a sign of things to come

[Shortchaz]

Im hoping bean and co trade down and pick up some future early round picks. we need a LOT of new blood on defense. I’m hoping the staff doesn’t look at 2024 as “all or nothing”. 

[Doc Brown]

6 minutes ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

I guess u don't like facts! Instead u want to try to insult someone for laying them out for you. Every big move outside of Josh Allen that Beane has made has backfired from Von to throwing multiple high picks in the trash. 

 

I'll give him this he did a much better job in last yrs draft at the top with the Kincaid and O'Cyrus picks hopefully this is a sign of things to come

The second biggest move Beane made was trading a 1st and a 4th for Diggs and I believe he's been the second most productive WR in the NFL since he got here.  Allen didn't become elite until that trade.  I do admire your commitment to painting Beane as a terrible GM though.

[The Jokeman]

14 hours ago, boyst said:

We should aim for Justin Armour's nephew or Al Edwards Son in Law 

Ed McCaffrey has a son in this year's draft that plays WR too.

[NastyNateSoldiers]

7 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

The second biggest move Beane made was trading a 1st and a 4th for Diggs and I believe he's been the second most productive WR in the NFL since he got here.  Allen didn't become elite until that trade.  I do admire your commitment to painting Beane as a terrible GM though.

I don't believe this to be the universal sentiment amongst all Bills fans. Yes Diggs has preformed at a high level in his 4yrs as a Bill but when u consider he's already declining along with the yr we traded for Diggs was a really strong yr in the draft for Wrs u come to the realization that was another blunder by Beane. With all that being said when u factor in the salary he received that helped put us in the cap situation we are in now instead of having a player like Jefferson or Higgins on a cost control deal and having one of them for the foreseeable future. When u add it all up Diggs cost us a 1st and 4th and salary cap space to have for basically 4yrs that's almost just as bad as drafting a player and losing him after 4yrs so essentially he was rental player not going to help us moving forward. 

[McBean]

19 hours ago, DJB said:

In the 2012 draft Atlanta traded up to get Julio Jones. Here is the breakdown of the deal;

 

 #6: Cleveland → Atlanta. (D) Cleveland traded this pick to Atlanta for Atlanta's first (27th overall, which later became #26), second (59th) and fourth-rounder (124th) and also Atlanta's first- and fourth-round selections in 2012.

 

Bills are in win now mode. We need an elite WR to put us over the top. Enter one of Malik Nabers (who I prefer) or Odunze. 
 

Is the time right now to do this with Josh and our window ?

 

Or should I put down the pipe and stick to trashing Tua? 

McClap will trade up for a corner or DT.

 

no. Offense. Allowed!

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

F*** yeah!

Anytime you can get the Martian Manhunter, you do what you have to!

[Jay_Fixit]

20 hours ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

I think "Hollywood" Brown would be a good target. #Boomer!

He would be awesome in this offense.

[Green Lightning]

You ever wonder what if we took Jefferson instead of trading for Diggs? We'd all be preoccupied with who would be WR2 and be set at WR1 for years to come. Is what it be.

[Brand J]

9 minutes ago, Green Lightning said:

You ever wonder what if we took Jefferson instead of trading for Diggs? We'd all be preoccupied with who would be WR2 and be set at WR1 for years to come. Is what it be.

We’d be in a much better spot today, no doubt. Also have to believe Jefferson wouldn’t completely disappear in the playoffs when corners are allowed to be more physical. No one saw the sort of success that was ahead for Jefferson or he would’ve been the first receiver off the board. That was a missed evaluation by everyone but the Vikings. The draft is a crapshoot, doesn’t make sense to trade up for any position that isn’t the face of your franchise. And even that’s a huge risk (hello, Carolina). Trade down if anything, accumulate capital in the early rounds.

[Doc]

9 hours ago, Richard Noggin said:

The way I fend off these compelling regrets is by first acknowledging pre-existing regrets that would have surely steepened Mahomes's learning curve in Buffalo (KC was able to essentially redshirt the raw but gifted QB prospect and put him through an intensive QB Camp with Andy Reid, Alex Smith, Brad Childress, Matt Nagy, and Eric Bieniemy to mentor him, whereas the Bills had Rick Dennison as 3rd or 4th choice OC, and effing Juan Castillo as OL coach and David Culley coaching QB for the first time in his career). It's possible that the hyper-cautious Tyrod Taylor would have been a useful counter to the rookie's risky tendencies, but overall it's doubtful that the offensive coaching and on-field talent (those WR/TE rooms were shameful) could have fostered the accelerated development he displayed in KC.

 

The Bills would have gotten LESS out of Mahomes than the Chiefs have seen. A lot less. 

 

Mahomes has had the benefit of better coaching, if not better skill players for most of his time there.  Give me Reid and Spagnuolo anyday and twice on Sundays. 

[Nextmanup]

21 hours ago, DJB said:

In the 2012 draft Atlanta traded up to get Julio Jones. Here is the breakdown of the deal;

 

 #6: Cleveland → Atlanta. (D) Cleveland traded this pick to Atlanta for Atlanta's first (27th overall, which later became #26), second (59th) and fourth-rounder (124th) and also Atlanta's first- and fourth-round selections in 2012.

 

Bills are in win now mode. We need an elite WR to put us over the top. Enter one of Malik Nabers (who I prefer) or Odunze. 
 

Is the time right now to do this with Josh and our window ?

 

Or should I put down the pipe and stick to trashing Tua? 

Bills are not in win now mode.  They are in "regroup" mode.

 

The win now phase ended last year.

 

We gotta rebuild.  Don't expect us to be as good next year.

 

 

[Arkady Renko]

In hindsight the Bills have made a mistake going all in the last couple of years and digging a deeper and deeper hole.  Better to position the team for sustained competitiveness and hope that one year things break their way.  

[DCofNC]

For as great as he was, did Julio win a title?  The Dolphins had the best WR duo in the league, how’d that play out?  The Eagles, Lions, etc are all sitting at home.   It’s great to have WRs and the Bills DO need them, but ultimately it’s a team sport, giving up 5 players for one is unlikely to be the right move.

[The Jokeman]

14 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

For as great as he was, did Julio win a title?  The Dolphins had the best WR duo in the league, how’d that play out?  The Eagles, Lions, etc are all sitting at home.   It’s great to have WRs and the Bills DO need them, but ultimately it’s a team sport, giving up 5 players for one is unlikely to be the right move.

The 49ers have a good pair in Samel and Ayuik. Toss in CMC the most complete RB in the NFL.

[MikePJ76]

They are not in a position to trade up.  They need to fill the roster with players on rookie contracts to alleviate the miller and diggs contracts over the next 2 years.

 

They should definitely draft and sign a wr for sure but they need to rebuild the defensive line and find a safety.  You know because the defensive head coach and the gm who works for the defensive head coach who spend most of their resources on defense....need to find defense again.  

 

We have to hope they hit on at least 4 guys who can play right away next year and find at least 4 mid level veteran free agents who can play right away.  

 

Have to just get through this short window where diggs and miller have these high salary numbers.

[BADOLBILZ]

10 hours ago, Richard Noggin said:

 

The way I fend off these compelling regrets is by first acknowledging pre-existing regrets that would have surely steepened Mahomes's learning curve in Buffalo (KC was able to essentially redshirt the raw but gifted QB prospect and put him through an intensive QB Camp with Andy Reid, Alex Smith, Brad Childress, Matt Nagy, and Eric Bieniemy to mentor him, whereas the Bills had Rick Dennison as 3rd or 4th choice OC, and effing Juan Castillo as OL coach and David Culley coaching QB for the first time in his career). It's possible that the hyper-cautious Tyrod Taylor would have been a useful counter to the rookie's risky tendencies, but overall it's doubtful that the offensive coaching and on-field talent (those WR/TE rooms were shameful) could have fostered the accelerated development he displayed in KC.

 

The Bills would have gotten LESS out of Mahomes than the Chiefs have seen. A lot less. 

 

 

Well the curse of the Bambino........as @FireChans compared this too........wasn't a curse because it prevented the Red Sox from winning the World Series 26 more times between 1918 and 2004............it was that it would soon elevate a league rival to seemingly previously unattainable championship status and the Red Sox then failed to win a WS for the rest of Ruth's career and another 86 years thereafter in total.

 

Whether Mahomes and the Bills then went to 6 straight conference title games and 4 Super Bowls in that span isn't the point.

 

One SB appearance alone would have trumped any of the Bills accomplishments since.

 

And to the idea that Mahomes wouldn't have been great in Buffalo...........how can anyone say that after Josh Allen basically evolved from a scattershot 52% passer into one of the best in the league under this regime?   That argument that Mahomes wouldn't have been able to be great in Buffalo has never held any water.

 

Mahomes was a much closer to finished product than Allen.   Andy Reid and the Chiefs weren't magicians.   Reid had never won a SB in nearly 20 seasons as a HC and the fans there were antsy about his playoff choke jobs since taking over.   His seat there was warm.  And at that point and the Chiefs organization was almost 50 years since their only prior SB win.   

 

 

 

 

[billrooter]

22 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

The Bills need to restock the defense.

So they can get picked apart in the  playoffs....like every year??

Edited February 4 by billrooter

[Paup 1995MVP]

22 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

he's shown no aptitude for evaluating WR talent.

Joe Brady coached a couple real good ones at LSU in Chase and Jefferson. He needs to be part of the WR conversation for sure.