Does the Bills Fan Base Need to Cut Miller Some Slack?

[djp14150]

1 hour ago, Rich Stadium Original said:

You will get little argument from me that Miller has not nearly shown anywhere near his past productivity, particularly with what the franchise is paying him. But I would argue that there is a lot more that we don't know about his injury/recovery than we do know:

 

a.) What was the severity of the original injury, and what is the usual recover time to full speed from such an injury? (A lot of his game is built on speed and quickness)

b.) How successful was the surgery, and have there been complications in the recovery limiting speed and agility?

c.) What are the doctors and trainers telling him now? How much pain and swelling  is he getting during repeated use?

d.) Are the Bills aware of his limitations, but putting him out on the field in certain situations just to draw extra attention?

 

I would assume he is a professional athlete with a desire to win, and not just taking plays of because he's afraid of getting hurt again.  If his physical condition was as bad as it may appear without hope for improvement, I would have thought the team would have shut him down on IR...We may never have the answers to a lot of these questions until the season is over.

This was an injury that takes 18+ months for 100% recovery.

 

 

[ExiledInIllinois]

46 minutes ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

Lol no he's useless 

BUT he's OUR useless. That means something.  😏 

[Since1981]

I hope he shows up big in WC game. Let’s all be clear—we want him to turn the corner and it sure wasn’t his “desire” to get hurt. 

[Freddie's Dead]

Yes, but they won't.  Von has no business playing now.  He's clearly still recovering from the injury.  You don't come back from an ACL in less than a year.  No idea why the Bills rushed him back.

[LABILLBACKER]

11 minutes ago, djp14150 said:

This was an injury that takes 18+ months for 100% recovery.

 

 

Awesome....so basically we lose him for a full season years 1 & 2....Maybe we get 1 good "full" season next year?

9 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

BUT he's OUR useless. That means something.  😏 

His contract and production so far has been useless. 

[Mr. WEO]

can I consult the other Miller threads or does the OP expect me to come up with an actual fresh Von Miller take?

[Since1981]

BUT BUT BUT

in Mr Rogers neighborhood recovery times, promises flow freely like diarrhea in Mexico.  

[whorlnut]

1 hour ago, billsfan89 said:

Yes, he is only just over a year removed from serious injury and he has looked a little better the past 3 weeks. I don't think he will make much of an impact this season even if the Bills make the playoffs BUT the fact that he was a big part in convincing Floyd to come here on a team-friendly deal alone gives him a pass for this season as without Floyd the Bills defense would have been in more trouble. 

Better the past three weeks?  Really?  This past game was arguably his worst since his return. 

[ExiledInIllinois]

3 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

can I consult the other Miller threads or does the OP expect me to come up with an actual fresh Von Miller take?

[whorlnut]

19 minutes ago, djp14150 said:

This was an injury that takes 18+ months for 100% recovery.

 

 

That’s normal for a younger player. How are those numbers for a guy vons age who has had an acl before?

[Mr. WEO]

4 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

 

 

come on!!

 

how on earth does this deserve another thread when the other one is on page 1?? 

[EmotionallyUnstable]

We acquired him and paid him to be our closer. Until he can offer that again, regardless of the scenarios, all criticisms and skepticisms are fair IMO. 

[Draconator]

1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

come on!!

 

how on earth does this deserve another thread when the other one is on page 1?? 

 

The search function or the ability to read escapes some people

[Mr. WEO]

Just now, Draconator said:

 

The search function or the ability to read escapes some people

 

He could have slipped it right into the other thread, where there are already plenty  of dudes cutting Von this slack.

 

but no.....

[JerseyBills]

42 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Proof?  lol.  Yeah man, let me waste my time scouring every snap he’s taken this year.  You can believe whatever you want.  Idc

If you say so

I mean you're the 1 claiming he's getting doubled alot. Shouldn't be that hard when he's playing less than 50% of the snaps 

 

I'd love to see just 1 example.  And I'm not trying to talk down on Von, just saying,  I haven't seen it

Edited December 27, 2023 by JerseyBills

[RunTheBall]

I don’t blame Beane for signing Von. It was a risk, worked in our favor for half a season then blew up in our faces. It happens.

 

I don’t blame Von for taking that contract. Who the hell wouldn’t?? 

 

I do blame McD for putting him out there as early as he did in the HOPE that he’d play himself into game shape and Old Von. I think McD is still holding out hope that he recovers enough to be an asset if we make the playoffs. I have my doubts.

 

I have yet to see Von double teamed. Not saying he hasn’t been, but in no way is he commanding anywhere close to the respect he used to.  He’s been taking snaps away from better players (Epenesa, Lawson, even Johnathan) in the hope that he will round into form. That’s a bold move Cotton.

 

I think best case scenario is he gives us a little something in the playoffs and comes back to form next year since we can’t get out of his contract.

 

I don’t care about his domestic case unless we can use it to get out of his contract, which isn’t going to happen. I know that will offend the legion of White Knights we have on this board but the reality is we all knew about his previous run ins and I don’t remember a strong protest against signing him for that reason. No one was pounding the table against Von because he had a couple of domestic incidents in the past so stop the hypocrisy. I’d rather he wasn’t a douchebag but his SO is refusing to cooperate with the cops so she’s obviously not taking a stand.

 

 

 

 

[Taro Nimbus]

I guess we forgot how bad Tre White looked coming back from a serious knee injury, but most of you gave him a break. 

[NewEra]

3 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Awesome....so basically we lose him for a full season years 1 & 2....Maybe we get 1 good "full" season next year?

His contract and production so far has been useless. 

And what does this have to do with the thread?  
 

cmon guys…..did you really EXPECT him to come back and be old von 13 months after tearing his acl?  
 

Sure, I was hoping he’d be better than he’s been.  Several plays where he’s been the worst player on the field for sure.  But there’s been a handful of positive plays where he beat his man and affected the QB.

 

His contract doesn’t allow for us to cut him…. So what can we do?  Cry and whine about something that we can’t do anything about?  Sure, if you still have some growing up to do you can do that. Sorry, but mature adults would chalk it up as a likely loss and hope for the best.  
 

The guy got injured, he’s not purposely tanking his play.  He didn’t force Beane to draw up that contract. He just signed it.  Holding grudges against players for injuries and contracts is just ridiculous.  If you hate the contract, you should have beef with Beane.  If you hate the player because he got injured and isn’t the same player before the injury, you should have beef with yourself. 
 

Reading several of the replies, it looks as if several responders didn’t even take the time to read the OP.  Their posts have nothing to do with the topic.  It’s like they read the title, saw red thinking about how much they hate Von Miller and vented their disdain for the man.  

4 minutes ago, EmotionallyUnstable said:

We acquired him and paid him to be our closer. Until he can offer that again, regardless of the scenarios, all criticisms and skepticisms are fair IMO. 

They are fair as long as they come with reasonable expectations.  
 

did you expect von to be great this season? 
 

I was hoping that he’d be better than he’s been, but I also realized there wasn’t likely.  In all likelihood, he was going to ramp up and improve over oct-dec and hopefully be able to contribute at a higher level come playoffs.  

[EmotionallyUnstable]

1 minute ago, NewEra said:

 

did you expect von to be great this season? 
 

I was hoping that he’d be better than he’s been, but I also realized there wasn’t likely.  In all likelihood, he was going to ramp up and improve over oct-dec and hopefully be able to contribute at a higher level come playoffs.  

Personally, I thought and was not surprised by his slow start. I did expect a bit more by now, as you mention.

 

Generally speaking I think people funnel their frustration with his lack of production at him when in reality it’s emphasized by how much potential we hoped for and $$$ it has cost. 
 

No one is pissed at kingley jonathan for low production. Expectations were lower. With Miller they were always “Super Bowl or bust” in terms of how much his acquisition would be worth in retrospect. His injury never changed that, and I think down the road it’ll end up looking like a bigger gaff for Beane (although an unpredictable one) and people won’t hold so much undeserved anger towards the future HoFer

[NewEra]

@Weatherman 🤣

 

You’re funny bro.  You make a ridiculous comment about mcdermott not being an NFL coach, get called out for it then are nowhere to be found.  Instead, you just fume and dislike every post I make.while contributing nothing to the thread.  Per usual.  Can’t blame you.  

Just now, EmotionallyUnstable said:

Personally, I thought and was not surprised by his slow start. I did expect a bit more by now, as you mention.

 

Generally speaking I think people funnel their frustration with his lack of production at him when in reality it’s emphasized by how much potential we hoped for and $$$ it has cost. 
 

No one is pissed at kingley jonathan for low production. Expectations were lower. With Miller they were always “Super Bowl or bust” in terms of how much his acquisition would be worth in retrospect. His injury never changed that, and I think down the road it’ll end up looking like a bigger gaff for Beane (although an unpredictable one) and people won’t hold so much undeserved anger towards the future HoFer

His injury should have changed the expectations of his play.  

[Bferra13]

3 minutes ago, Taro Nimbus said:

I guess we forgot how bad Tre White looked coming back from a serious knee injury, but most of you gave him a break. 

I've seen a couple people say this now, but I'm debating in my head if that is an apples to oranges comparison considering the differences of the positions. I think it is, but yeah the knee would definitely impact his off the line explosiveness. But if that's the case, should he playing? I don't know the answers to any of this stuff. But just thinking out loud.

 

I was NOT a miller fan when they signed him. I referred to him on the Broncos as Von Duechebag cuz that's how he came off to me. The whole signing felt like a mercenary deal at the time. But he's grown on me a little with his personality. The free agent stuff was pretty lame though. Sorry just rambling now.

[klos63]

Tre was awful when he came back last season, took him a few games this season to regain his form, then unfortunately, got hurt again.

It's shouldn't be a surprise that Miller is struggling to regain form. Hopefully he can have some impact this season, but it doesn't look promising.

[NewEra]

3 minutes ago, Bferra13 said:

I've seen a couple people say this now, but I'm debating in my head if that is an apples to oranges comparison considering the differences of the positions. I think it is, but yeah the knee would definitely impact his off the line explosiveness. But if that's the case, should he playing? I don't know the answers to any of this stuff. But just thinking out loud.

 

I was NOT a miller fan when they signed him. I referred to him on the Broncos as Von Duechebag cuz that's how he came off to me. The whole signing felt like a mercenary deal at the time. But he's grown on me a little with his personality. The free agent stuff was pretty lame though. Sorry just rambling now.

Yes and no.  I do think the acl injury affects a corner more than pass rusher.  I also think that Tre tearing his acl at age 26 is different than Von Miller tearing his acl at 33

[EmotionallyUnstable]

1 minute ago, NewEra said:

 

His injury should have changed the expectations of his play.  

Yes they certainly can change what you expect in terms of production, but doesn’t change in terms of what’s invested. 
 

Same holds true for any asset. For example first round pick Kaire Elam had large expectations and big investment in terms of draft capital. He came out and has significantly under preformed what we would have hoped for. I don’t expect anything from him, and if we get something, you’ll take it as a win. But in terms of investment, it’s still disappointing. We get caught up in that disappointment when we see it first hand on the field because the original expectations and $$$ cannot be separated from who and what these players offer to the team. 
 

Yes we’ve come to expect little, but it doesn’t absolve our own memories of what could have been

[loyal2dagame]

He deserves no slack. 

He came to the Bills and continously ran his mouth about player X is coming here over and over. It seemed like he was guaranteeing every big name free agent was to be a Bill. Not 1 player he said was coming here did. Blowhard.

Then he gets injured, which sucked,  but can't hold that against him as it's part of the game. 

Then he allegedly chokes his pregnant girlfriend during the bye week,  during a streach where the Bills look to be in a noise dive,  just adding more turmoil to the team. 

No,  Von Miller does not get any slack.

 

Brandon Beane does for making a move based on what could have been.

[EasternOHBillsFan]

Do we need to cut Von Miller some slack? Yes, a little bit due to the extent of the injury.

 

Do we need to hammer the coaching staff for putting him out there for far too many plays? HELL YES. He's clearly been ineffective for many weeks and he's only hurting the team by being out there as long as he has been.

[klos63]

9 minutes ago, Bferra13 said:

I've seen a couple people say this now, but I'm debating in my head if that is an apples to oranges comparison considering the differences of the positions. I think it is, but yeah the knee would definitely impact his off the line explosiveness. But if that's the case, should he playing? I don't know the answers to any of this stuff. But just thinking out loud.

 

I was NOT a miller fan when they signed him. I referred to him on the Broncos as Von Duechebag cuz that's how he came off to me. The whole signing felt like a mercenary deal at the time. But he's grown on me a little with his personality. The free agent stuff was pretty lame though. Sorry just rambling now.

The level of play in the NFL is so exceptional that the slightest setback makes a huge impact. Regardless of position, if you're playing at 80%, you're always playing against someone that's pretty close to 100%, that's huge in the NFL. That's why RB's or LB's get cut as soon as they lose a step, you can't compete on an level field anymore.

Von Duechebag? Seriously?

[SoonerBillsFan]

1 hour ago, Rich Stadium Original said:

You will get little argument from me that Miller has not nearly shown anywhere near his past productivity, particularly with what the franchise is paying him. But I would argue that there is a lot more that we don't know about his injury/recovery than we do know:

 

a.) What was the severity of the original injury, and what is the usual recover time to full speed from such an injury? (A lot of his game is built on speed and quickness)

b.) How successful was the surgery, and have there been complications in the recovery limiting speed and agility?

c.) What are the doctors and trainers telling him now? How much pain and swelling  is he getting during repeated use?

d.) Are the Bills aware of his limitations, but putting him out on the field in certain situations just to draw extra attention?

 

I would assume he is a professional athlete with a desire to win, and not just taking plays of because he's afraid of getting hurt again.  If his physical condition was as bad as it may appear without hope for improvement, I would have thought the team would have shut him down on IR...We may never have the answers to a lot of these questions until the season is over.

No.  I cam get all the eye rolls or whatever,but it seems to me he is just collecting a paycheck now.  I don't believe he will ever be anything near what he was the first few games of last season.

 

I would love to be wrong, but I don't think I am.

[NewEra]

5 minutes ago, EmotionallyUnstable said:

Yes they certainly can change what you expect in terms of production, but doesn’t change in terms of what’s invested. 
 

Same holds true for any asset. For example first round pick Kaire Elam had large expectations and big investment in terms of draft capital. He came out and has significantly under preformed what we would have hoped for. I don’t expect anything from him, and if we get something, you’ll take it as a win. But in terms of investment, it’s still disappointing. We get caught up in that disappointment when we see it first hand on the field because the original expectations and $$$ cannot be separated from who and what these players offer to the team. 
 

Yes we’ve come to expect little, but it doesn’t absolve our own memories of what could have been

But why would the investment Brandon Beane made into Von affect whether or not he should be given some slack? 
 

if someone doesn’t like the guy because of his off the field stuff, so be it.  I can respect that.  
 

if someone doesn’t want to cut him some slack because we aren’t getting the player they were expecting, due to an injury, I can’t get down with that.  To each their own, but it’s just doesn’t compute with my way of thinking.   
 

Give Beane hell for giving a huge contract to a 33 year old pass rusher with injury concerns.  That makes sense.  Giving Von hell for not being the player we signed doesn’t make sense.  You can bet he’s giving his all, trying to be the player we need

[Returntoglory]

1 hour ago, mjt328 said:

The Von Miller thing is just ugly from a bunch of different angles.

 

Cap-wise, it makes Brandon Beane look bad for taking a huge financial risk on a player his age.  Maybe that's not fair to our GM.  But a mistake is a mistake, and it will likely cost us a younger and more productive player down the line (such as Leonard Floyd, AJ Epenesa or Greg Rousseau).

 

Coaching-wise, it makes Sean McDermott look bad for continually putting him on the field.  He literally cannot move side to side or turn the corner, and just runs past the Quarterback on every single play.  This is something he MUST be seeing in practice.

 

Despite this, I think fans would have a little more patience and sympathy if it wasn't for the assault charge now hanging over his head.  Many if not most fans would prefer he be cut from the team based on the current evidence.  But the dead-money hit on his contract would be so detrimental to the team, it's something we almost can't even consider.

Wrong.

 

You cannot predict injuries!

[BuffBills51]

My issue with Von is that he just seems to be going through the motions and putting in zero effort. He seems to stop on plays and has become a one dimensional pash rusher with a bull rush that has no bull. 

[LabattBlue]

Just my 2 cents…I think Non would have been perfectly content being on IR the entire season…and I bet he would love for the Bills to cut him in the offseason, and then sign with a preferred choice(Dallas?) for a few million since the Bills already opened the Pegula vault for him. 

[EmotionallyUnstable]

6 minutes ago, NewEra said:

But why would the investment Brandon Beane made into Von affect whether or not he should be given some slack? 
 

if someone doesn’t like the guy because of his off the field stuff, so be it.  I can respect that.  
 

if someone doesn’t want to cut him some slack because we aren’t getting the player they were expecting, due to an injury, I can’t get down with that.  To each their own, but it’s just doesn’t compute with my way of thinking.   
 

Give Beane hell for giving a huge contract to a 33 year old pass rusher with injury concerns.  That makes sense.  Giving Von hell for not being the player we signed doesn’t make sense.  You can bet he’s giving his all, trying to be the player we need

I believe the bolded is why people get frustrated and because it’s miller that is the one we’re counting on, he catches the heat. 
 

I can understand why you have your perspective. I also completely get why people are frustrated. 
 

Im sure Von is doing what he can to get back to form, but just trying your best doesn’t produce and at the end of the day, that’s what he was brought here to do. 
 

Hopeful for next year, but we once again, some how, are in dire need of help on rhe DL

[Don Otreply]

1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Or you’re just saying dumb things like you always do. 
 

 

You’re the only smart person in this thread!

Hmmm…, 

[klos63]

15 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

Just my 2 cents…I think Non would have been perfectly content being on IR the entire season…and I bet he would love for the Bills to cut him in the offseason, and then sign with a preferred choice(Dallas?) for a few million since the Bills already opened the Pegula vault for him. 

You're just making this up right? You have no insider knowledge of Non's thinking, right?

[RyanC883]

I blame McD for putting him out there in high leverage situations. He’s basically unable to do anything at this point. 

[Buffalo Bills Fan]

14 minutes ago, EmotionallyUnstable said:

I believe the bolded is why people get frustrated and because it’s miller that is the one we’re counting on, he catches the heat. 
 

I can understand why you have your perspective. I also completely get why people are frustrated. 
 

Im sure Von is doing what he can to get back to form, but just trying your best doesn’t produce and at the end of the day, that’s what he was brought here to do. 
 

Hopeful for next year, but we once again, some how, are in dire need of help on rhe DL

 

Agree with this

[LabattBlue]

7 minutes ago, klos63 said:

You're just making this up right? You have no insider knowledge of Non's thinking, right?

Well lets see…either I had dinner with Non recently, and he told me his true feelings, or it is just my opinion.  I will let you figure it out. 

Edited December 28, 2023 by LabattBlue

[NewEra]

23 minutes ago, EmotionallyUnstable said:

I believe the bolded is why people get frustrated and because it’s miller that is the one we’re counting on, he catches the heat. 
 

I can understand why you have your perspective. I also completely get why people are frustrated. 
 

Im sure Von is doing what he can to get back to form, but just trying your best doesn’t produce and at the end of the day, that’s what he was brought here to do. 
 

Hopeful for next year, but we once again, some how, are in dire need of help on rhe DL

I hear ya- I just can’t hate on von for not being what we paid him to be 13 months removed from tearing his acl.  
 

Am I disappointed in Vons ROI?  Absofrickenlutely.  
 

I’m not upset with Von in the least.  
 

My expectations for his play changed the second he was injured.  My expectations regarding our ROI from Von changed as well.

 

i do believe he can help us win a Super Bowl

Edited December 28, 2023 by NewEra

[stevestojan]

If it’s about the injury, then he isn’t ready.
 

We need guys who are ready NOW, not guys who are “testing their confidence” - for the 11th week straight - on a bum knee. 
 

When he is on the field, it’s literally like we have 10 guys on defense. He does the waltz with the right tackle for 5 yards past the QB. That’s not what we need right now. 
 

He is only getting snaps because of his name, reputation, and past success. If his name wasn’t Von Miller, zero of us would want him on the field.  Cam Lewis is more impactful to this defense than Von Miller at this point. 
 

 

 

 

Edited December 28, 2023 by stevestojan