Broncos benching Wilson

[KingBoots8]

1 minute ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

They didnt hire Sean Peyton and pay him up to  $100 million to get 26 TD/8 int season out of Wilson, it was a grand slam contract, either he gets  the Broncos to  win playoff game or two or not.  He likely wont even make the playoffs.  Hiring Payton was, a disaster imo.

They also had to trade for him from the Saints as he was still under contract there. The Saints got a 1st in 2023 and a 2nd in 2024 in exchange for Payton and a 2023 3rd rounder.

[Warcodered]

29 minutes ago, 17islongenough said:

Lucky for Denver that Cleveland traded for Watson otherwise this is the worst trade out there

True and while it must be nice that they've now been possessed by the vengeful ghost of Joe Flacco, it's got to be a real twist of the knife that the Texans immediately seem to have found their franchise QB after dumping Watson off on them.

[Beck Water]

7 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

It was one of my bold predictions before the season. Wilson is finished.

 

The Broncos have a mediocre scoring offense and a bottom-dweller defense, despite being mid-pack on offensive turnovers too (meaning the offense isn't putting the defense in bad positions an excessive amount). They have a "meh" rushing offense, but are near the bottom of the league for rushing TDs, which says they're hanging on Wilson's arm to score.  

He actually put up decent numbers.  26 TD, 8 INT, 204.5 ypg, 98 passer rating are all QB numbers a team should be able to win with.  Decent "bounceback" year.  On the other hand, they're not paying Wilson to be "a QB you can win with", they're paying him to be a Star of Stars.

 

It's clear that Russ has not been the game changer that the Broncos envisioned when they traded for him so I can't disagree with the Broncos on the financial decision, but to me, this recks of scapegoating Russ for the pretty putrid defensive performances Payton started off the season with.  As we know, Payton has such a great track record*** for how he handled the QB position and cap/personnel decisions in general in N'Orleans at the end of his tenure there, so he must know what he's doing 🙄

 

***sarcasm font enabled

 

[TheyCallMeAndy]

26 TDs - 8 INT

3000+ yards

66%
7-8 as a starter

 

Yea he sounds like the problem. 

[Captain Hindsight]

9 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said:

He has had a much better year this year than last year 

Im actually surprised they benched him. He’s been pretty good this year, not elite but solid starter. They don’t have the picks to go get a QB. 
 

Clearly the trade hasn’t worked as they expected, but this seems more ego driven than actual football move 

[Beck Water]

4 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

You mean other than Nathan Peterman getting the start over Tyrod Taylor?

 

Heh.  Fair point.  We not only were mathematically alive, we actually made the playoffs that year.

[The Frankish Reich]

34 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

Very disappointed with all the Sean Payton antics this years right down to the throwing "our buddy" Nathanial Hackett under the bus (even though he deserved it).  Payton's ego is wildly out of control and it manifests itself in some very destructive counterproductive outcomes.  He is no longer a young wonderkid but an aging  angry old Head Coach.  He should have kept his TV gig.

The thing is that Payton is more responsible for the Broncos falling out of the playoff race than Wilson or anyone else. Horrible clock management in last week's loss to the Pats after Wilson actually had two 4th quarter TDs (with successful 2-point conversions on both) to tie the game. The Pats were ready to run out the clock and go to OT (2 rushes with less than a minute left) and Payton used Broncos timeouts in a stupid effort to try to get the ball back. Result: one nice Zappe pass, one 56 yard FG, one more Broncos loss. And it wasn't just that game - Payton made a lot of questionable decisions in a lot of games.

 

Wilson was awful last season with Hackett, but he was about what any reasonable person could have expected at age 34/45 when the Broncs traded for him and gave him that huge contract before last season. Payton has been itching to move on from him, so we have an unusually big contract for Stidham as backup (maybe he'll surprise like in garbage time last year?) but no realistic way to bring in a potential game-changer at QB next season. You could waive Russ and try to bring in Geno Smith (second go around following Russ?) or someone like that, but that's really unlikely to accomplish anything. Payton is a man with a huge ego, a huge contract, and no reasonable plan.

[GunnerBill]

20 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said:

He has had a much better year this year than last year 

 

Statistically, sure. To the eyes test I still think he has been bad.

[RoyBatty is alive]

4 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

The thing is that Payton is more responsible for the Broncos falling out of the playoff race than Wilson or anyone else. Horrible clock management in last week's loss to the Pats after Wilson actually had two 4th quarter TDs (with successful 2-point conversions on both) to tie the game. The Pats were ready to run out the clock and go to OT (2 rushes with less than a minute left) and Payton used Broncos timeouts in a stupid effort to try to get the ball back. Result: one nice Zappe pass, one 56 yard FG, one more Broncos loss. And it wasn't just that game - Payton made a lot of questionable decisions in a lot of games.

 

Wilson was awful last season with Hackett, but he was about what any reasonable person could have expected at age 34/45 when the Broncs traded for him and gave him that huge contract before last season. Payton has been itching to move on from him, so we have an unusually big contract for Stidham as backup (maybe he'll surprise like in garbage time last year?) but no realistic way to bring in a potential game-changer at QB next season. You could waive Russ and try to bring in Geno Smith (second go around following Russ?) or someone like that, but that's really unlikely to accomplish anything. Payton is a man with a huge ego, a huge contract, and no reasonable plan.

In other words, like half the league, Denver is in in QB hell and have traded away resources to fix the problem.  I really question if Payton wants to spend the next few years trying to keep them viable.

[KingBoots8]

12 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Heh.  Fair point.  We not only were mathematically alive, we actually made the playoffs that year.

barf. Don’t torture yourself and look up Taylor’s stat line for that game vs the Jags.

[The Frankish Reich]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Statistically, sure. To the eyes test I still think he has been bad.

I love living in Colorado, but that means I have to put up with a lot more Broncos football than I'd ever choose.

 

Wilson has looked like ... Wilson. Not particularly efficient when on schedule (as they say), but still capable of buying time and making some big plays. The same things we've always seen: not great in the pocket, averse to throwing in the middle of the field, etc., etc. But behind a pretty bad O line and with questionable talent at WR (Jeudy: just not that good; Sutton: great end zone talent, never catches anything up the middle; no TE of value) he played pretty well.

[ColoradoBills]

53 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

From what I see they eat 35 million dollars in a release and close to 19 million if they trade him.   

 

That is Wilson post June hit.  Broncos would need to carry $85M until they can split it after June 1st.

If they are truly doing that, they are tanking in 2024.  They would need to release and/or trade a good amount of their big money players.

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/denver-broncos/russell-wilson-9885/

[Bray Wyatt]

17 minutes ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

26 TDs - 8 INT

3000+ yards

66%
7-8 as a starter

 

Yea he sounds like the problem. 

 

Arent those Lamar Jackson numbers? 😈

Edited December 27, 2023 by Bray Wyatt

[GunnerBill]

Just now, The Frankish Reich said:

I love living in Colorado, but that means I have to put up with a lot more Broncos football than I'd ever choose.

 

Wilson has looked like ... Wilson. Not particularly efficient when on schedule (as they say), but still capable of buying time and making some big plays. The same things we've always seen: not great in the pocket, averse to throwing in the middle of the field, etc., etc. But behind a pretty bad O line and with questionable talent at WR (Jeudy: just not that good; Sutton: great end zone talent, never catches anything up the middle; no TE of value) he played pretty well.

 

He still held the ball way too long. Missed the opportunity to hit open guys and his short form accuracy has fallen off a cliff. Sure, he throws a nice deep ball. And Payton managed to create enough schemed throws. But Russell Wilson isn't close to the guy he was in his prime in Seattle. He is a low end starter at this point.

[KingBoots8]

9 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

The thing is that Payton is more responsible for the Broncos falling out of the playoff race than Wilson or anyone else. Horrible clock management in last week's loss to the Pats after Wilson actually had two 4th quarter TDs (with successful 2-point conversions on both) to tie the game. The Pats were ready to run out the clock and go to OT (2 rushes with less than a minute left) and Payton used Broncos timeouts in a stupid effort to try to get the ball back. Result: one nice Zappe pass, one 56 yard FG, one more Broncos loss. And it wasn't just that game - Payton made a lot of questionable decisions in a lot of games.

 

Wilson was awful last season with Hackett, but he was about what any reasonable person could have expected at age 34/45 when the Broncs traded for him and gave him that huge contract before last season. Payton has been itching to move on from him, so we have an unusually big contract for Stidham as backup (maybe he'll surprise like in garbage time last year?) but no realistic way to bring in a potential game-changer at QB next season. You could waive Russ and try to bring in Geno Smith (second go around following Russ?) or someone like that, but that's really unlikely to accomplish anything. Payton is a man with a huge ego, a huge contract, and no reasonable plan.

Gonna be hard to move in the draft to replace him. They have a 1st and a 3rd. Their second rounder went to New Orleans, and they traded one of their two 3rd rounders with Seattle in last years draft to select CB Riley Moss

[dave mcbride]

14 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

The Broncos have a mediocre scoring offense and a bottom-dweller defense, despite being mid-pack on offensive turnovers too (meaning the offense isn't putting the defense in bad positions an excessive amount). They have a "meh" rushing offense, but are near the bottom of the league for rushing TDs, which says they're hanging on Wilson's arm to score.  

He actually put up decent numbers.  26 TD, 8 INT, 204.5 ypg, 98 passer rating are all QB numbers a team should be able to win with.  Decent "bounceback" year.  On the other hand, they're not paying Wilson to be "a QB you can win with", they're paying him to be a Star of Stars.

 

It's clear that Russ has not been the game changer that the Broncos envisioned when they traded for him so I can't disagree with the Broncos on the financial decision, but to me, this recks of scapegoating Russ for the pretty putrid defensive performances Payton started off the season with.  As we know, Payton has such a great track record*** for how he handled the QB position and cap/personnel decisions in general in N'Orleans at the end of his tenure there, so he must know what he's doing 🙄

 

***sarcasm font enabled

 

Wilson’s numbers are very deceiving. He has a sky-high 9.1 percent sack rate (it was even worse last year: 10.2) which is why they are 21st in net yards per pass attempt, 25th in yards overall, and 28th in plays per drive. Sacks are very often the fault of the QB, and in Wilson’s case it seems pretty obvious from the games that a lot of it is him. Sacks are total drive killers, and you simply can’t be a sack machine — especially when you can’t compensate for it by being a great running qb, which he no longer really is. He’s only slightly above average on that front now. He also has 10 fumbles.

21 minutes ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

26 TDs - 8 INT

3000+ yards

66%
7-8 as a starter

 

Yea he sounds like the problem. 

I advise that you check out the sack numbers. They are sky high.

PS: In comparison, look at the sack rates for Brees over the years: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BreeDr00.htm

[Einstein]

34 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

They didnt hire Sean Peyton and pay him up to  $100 million to get 26 TD/8 int season out of Wilson, it was a grand slam contract, either he gets  the Broncos to  win playoff game or two or not.  He likely wont even make the playoffs.  Hiring Payton was, a disaster imo.

 

It was a disaster because he didn’t make the playoffs in year ONE? I guess we have to agree to disagree on this one. 

[BuffaloRebound]

11 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

He still held the ball way too long. Missed the opportunity to hit open guys and his short form accuracy has fallen off a cliff. Sure, he throws a nice deep ball. And Payton managed to create enough schemed throws. But Russell Wilson isn't close to the guy he was in his prime in Seattle. He is a low end starter at this point.

Agreed.  Their whole offense was Sutton making circus catches.  

[H2o]

25 minutes ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

26 TDs - 8 INT

3000+ yards

66%
7-8 as a starter

 

Yea he sounds like the problem. 

This is one of those deals where the stats don't tell the whole story. Russ is a vet. He should be able to pick up on things fairly quick at this point as there isn't much he has not seen. He's having a problem running Sean Payton's offense the way Sean wants it run. He also misses wide open WR's on the field an awful lot, and has since he arrived in Denver. Can't tell you how many times he's had guys wide open for what would have been drive extending plays, chunk plays, or TD's and he just doesn't see them. He's also holding onto the ball, A LOT, and it's led to him being sacked 3 times a game on average. This doesn't count how many other pressures or hits he takes because he's back there looking clueless at times. 

[Chandler#81]

SONOFA.. I just picked the Broncos on my weekly parlay then this news broke.

Can I sue Colorado? 

[TheyCallMeAndy]

16 minutes ago, Bray Wyatt said:

 

Arent those Lamar Jackson numbers? 😈

Lamar wishes those were his numbers 😂

[Einstein]

26 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

The Pats were ready to run out the clock and go to OT (2 rushes with less than a minute left) and Payton used Broncos timeouts in a stupid effort to try to get the ball back.

 

That was 100% the right decision. 

 

Those timeouts got his offense the ball back, with a chance to go and win the game with a field goal.

 

You would have had him NOT give his team the ball back with a chance to win it? They only had to get a measly 21 yards for a field goal try!

[GunnerBill]

7 minutes ago, H2o said:

This is one of those deals where the stats don't tell the whole story. Russ is a vet. He should be able to pick up on things fairly quick at this point as there isn't much he has not seen. He's having a problem running Sean Payton's offense the way Sean wants it run. He also misses wide open WR's on the field an awful lot, and has since he arrived in Denver. Can't tell you how many times he's had guys wide open for what would have been drive extending plays, chunk plays, or TD's and he just doesn't see them. He's also holding onto the ball, A LOT, and it's led to him being sacked 3 times a game on average. This doesn't count how many other pressures or hits he takes because he's back there looking clueless at times. 

 

100%. If ever there is a case in modern times of stats hiding the story Russ in Denver is it. 

[Gregg]

So where does he end up. Pittsburgh, Atlanta. Maybe Minnesota if Cousins doesn't resign there. 

[Southern_Bills]

1 minute ago, Gregg said:

So where does he end up. Pittsburgh, Atlanta. Maybe Minnesota if Cousins doesn't resign there. 

 

Put of all those teams only Atlanta would be foolish enough to do it.

 

I'm not sure anyone will be interested in Russ.

[Bray Wyatt]

3 minutes ago, Gregg said:

So where does he end up. Pittsburgh, Atlanta. Maybe Minnesota if Cousins doesn't resign there. 

 

New England?

[Gregg]

Just now, Southern_Bills said:

 

Put of all those teams only Atlanta would be foolish enough to do it.

 

I'm not sure anyone will be interested in Russ.

 

The Steelers QB situation isn't that great. Their defense has to play their ass off to keep them in games. Is Pickett really the answer going forward. I could see the Steelers taking a chance if the price is right.

[Albany,n.y.]

1 hour ago, FilthyBeast said:

Considering the Broncos are very much alive for the playoffs they are basically making the decision to move from Wilson now.

 

Regardless I actually though he had a solid bounce back type of year and can't blame him for losing to the Patriots.

There are 6 teams ahead of them vying for 3 spots.  They are hardly "very much alive" for the playoffs.  

[ColoradoBills]

5 minutes ago, Gregg said:

So where does he end up. Pittsburgh, Atlanta. Maybe Minnesota if Cousins doesn't resign there. 

 

I'm not a huge college fan so it depends on how many quality QBs are going to be drafted in the Top 10-12.

Your teams are the ones probably too far away to get one.  So I kind of agree with you.

 

3 minutes ago, Southern_Bills said:

 

Put of all those teams only Atlanta would be foolish enough to do it.

 

I'm not sure anyone will be interested in Russ.

 

Denver will eat $68M in cap.  A team trading for him would have him for 2 years with a total cost of $54M.

He has no dead cap after that so a team could move on after 2 years.

 

I can see someone doing that.

[CNYfan]

Someone later in the 1st or 2nd may see Russ as a "bridge" for a year and then a backup for a year, if they draft a more raw talent at QB

[Aussie Joe]

12 minutes ago, Southern_Bills said:

 

Put of all those teams only Atlanta would be foolish enough to do it.

 

I'm not sure anyone will be interested in Russ.

Come on..

 

He is going to end up somewhere 

[WotAGuy]

Worst signing?  Von or Russ?

Both very highly paid end of career guys filling a major need.
I think Russ. Broncos missed a chance to tank for a franchise guy. 
Bills hurt themselves cap-wise but didn’t set themselves back too severely. 

[SinceThe70s]

1 hour ago, Beck Water said:

 

Did. Not. See. that. coming.

 

Is there precedent for a team benching their starter when they are still mathematically alive for the playoffs?

I grant that after the last two losses, their odds are apparently very low

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/nfl-playoff-picture-broncos-arent-technically-eliminated-yet/ar-AA1m2PHq

 

 

Vegas sent Carr home last year with two games left when they were still mathematically alive. Ironically it was also for Stidham. 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

1 hour ago, strive_for_five_guy said:

Let Russ simmer

Does this mean Subway is going to let Wilson sell that f****** sandwich? 🤔

1 hour ago, ganesh said:

I can definitely see them going after Kirk Cousins

Never do it.  The oxygen is so thin in the Mile High city that he'll pass out doing his "YOU LIKE THAT?!?!" shtick. 🤨

[DCofNC]

1 hour ago, Limeaid said:

 

They are telling players and fans that it was a screw up to sign Wilson.

Not like they didn’t already know.

[Albany,n.y.]

1 minute ago, Aussie Joe said:

Come on..

 

He is going to end up somewhere 

Not with his current contract. Nobody is trading for him unless he agrees to a massive pay cut.  

[Beck Water]

37 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Wilson’s numbers are very deceiving. He has a sky-high 9.1 percent sack rate (it was even worse last year: 10.2) which is why they are 21st in net yards per pass attempt, 25th in yards overall, and 28th in plays per drive. Sacks are very often the fault of the QB, and in Wilson’s case it seems pretty obvious from the games that a lot of it is him. Sacks are total drive killers, and you simply can’t be a sack machine — especially when you can’t compensate for it by being a great running qb, which he no longer really is. He’s only slightly above average on that front now. He also has 10 fumbles.

I advise that you check out the sack numbers. They are sky high.

 

Fair points.  Agree completely on the impact of sacks - some coaches rate them as similar to a turnover.  But, I hadn't watched enough Broncos games to have a sense of whether Wilson was at fault or whether they were expecting him to operate behind scraps and turnstiles on OL.  

 

I had the impression, the latter, but there may well be designed hot reads Wilson isn't taking, as well - he certainly had a pattern as a Seattle QB of ignoring the hot read to try to extend plays and create.  (As Allen has done at times)

 

He does have 10 fumbles, only 5 fumbles lost FWIW.

 

The thing is, if they're going to bite the bullet, eat the massive dead cap next year, and move on from Wilson, What's the Plan at QB?  They've been a bit too successful to draft a QB high.  They still owe the Saints their 2nd round pick this year as part of the trade for Sean Payton so their maneuvering room in the draft will be limited.

Edited December 27, 2023 by Beck Water

[DCofNC]

12 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

I'm not a huge college fan so it depends on how many quality QBs are going to be drafted in the Top 10-12.

Your teams are the ones probably too far away to get one.  So I kind of agree with you.

 

 

Denver will eat $68M in cap.  A team trading for him would have him for 2 years with a total cost of $54M.

He has no dead cap after that so a team could move on after 2 years.

 

I can see someone doing that.

Nobody is paying that disaster 27+ a year, on the open market he’s worth MAYBE 15.  Ok, reality like 5 as a back up, but his name might carry him.   Better off w Mayfield by a mile.

Edited December 27, 2023 by DCofNC

[Aussie Joe]

1 minute ago, Albany,n.y. said:

Not with his current contract. Nobody is trading for him unless he agrees to a massive pay cut.  

Ok… they can’t trade him so they will cut him…

 

He has not played his last game of football…. He will play next year for someone 

[Gregg]