Niagara Dude Posted December 25, 2023 Share Posted December 25, 2023 Is it me or does this guy just look ugly returning punts, even before his fumble that almost cost this last game he just looks totally lost and an accident waiting to happen. He has had opportunities to return punts this season and just has no feel for finding lanes and makes himself look slow in doing so despite being a 4.4 forty guy. After Saturday I would prefer the Bills try using someone else, maybe Isabella. When you include his contribution as a WR and how much we paid him this was a terrible signing, in fact his cap humber at just over 4 mllion is higher then Hopkins cap number at 3.9 mllion with the Titans. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BananaB Posted December 25, 2023 Share Posted December 25, 2023 He’s terrible at just about everything 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBFL Posted December 25, 2023 Share Posted December 25, 2023 Thought about that watching the past couple of games. Seems like the more he’s been phased out of the offense, the worse he has become on returns. Might be a case of overthinking things to try and make the biggest play he can whenever he touches the football instead of letting things naturally happen for him… That fumble return was atrocious. Could have picked up about 10/15 yards if he hadn’t danced around for 4 seconds after the catch. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted December 25, 2023 Share Posted December 25, 2023 They took a shot on a guy and swung and missed. I wonder who in the front office pounded the table for him. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wjag Posted December 25, 2023 Share Posted December 25, 2023 He's not the answer on the PK, but he may be the only option at this point in the season. Special teams in general have been a weak spot on this team this year. The holding penalties that are popping up of late on the special teams are tanking field position. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichRiderBills Posted December 25, 2023 Share Posted December 25, 2023 (edited) IMO Harty and Sherfield are both FA busts that could easily be replaced w rookies or UDFA. Edited December 25, 2023 by RichRiderBills 4 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted December 25, 2023 Share Posted December 25, 2023 I tried telling everyone that he was garbage the minute we got him. Never saw anything in him at all. I thought everyone was crazy for thinking this guy was gonna something. This offseason can’t come soon enough (not too soon, let’s say….2/12) so that we can cut this useless scrub 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niagara Dude Posted December 25, 2023 Author Share Posted December 25, 2023 4 minutes ago, wjag said: He's not the answer on the PK, but he may be the only option at this point in the season. Special teams in general have been a weak spot on this team this year. The holding penalties that are popping up of late on the special teams are tanking field position. How about Isabella? I just have so many times where Harty present himself in position for players to strip ball away. he just never seems be able to find or get to the edges and way too much east and west running. It looks very ugly and maybe even Shakir could be an option because the risks with this guy don't equate to high rewards . Harty does not even seem come close to breaking one or teams need to be worried about him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BananaB Posted December 25, 2023 Share Posted December 25, 2023 7 minutes ago, RichRiderBills said: IMO Harty and Sherfield are both FA busts that could easily be replaced w rookies or UDFA. Could be replaced with guys from the PS right now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dat Posted December 25, 2023 Share Posted December 25, 2023 I miss Nyheim Hines, Harty catches the ball and just stands there like he glitched out while I yell “RUN”. I don’t ever remember doing that with Hines, he took off immediately. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einstein Posted December 25, 2023 Share Posted December 25, 2023 17 minutes ago, BananaB said: He’s terrible at just about everything This is where I am at. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T master Posted December 25, 2023 Share Posted December 25, 2023 8 minutes ago, RichRiderBills said: IMO Harty and Sherfield are both FA busts that could easily be replaced w rookies or UDFA. And a UDFA would probably work as hard or harder because they have something to prove to the NFL in general plus it would be a more cap friendly move . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyBills Posted December 25, 2023 Share Posted December 25, 2023 18 minutes ago, Niagara Dude said: Is it me or does this guy just look ugly returning punts, even before his fumble that almost cost this last game he just looks totally lost and an accident waiting to happen. He has had opportunities to return punts this season and just has no feel for finding lanes and makes himself look slow in doing so despite being a 4.4 forty guy. After Saturday I would prefer the Bills try using someone else, maybe Isabella. When you include his contribution as a WR and how much we paid him this was a terrible signing, in fact his cap humber at just over 4 mllion is higher then Hopkins cap number at 3.9 mllion with the Titans. hopkins hit goes up to nearly 16 mil next year. Not sure if it's the QBs but he has been disappointing and super inconsistent 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
streetkings01 Posted December 25, 2023 Share Posted December 25, 2023 (edited) Outside of that fumble he hasn’t been bad on punt returns……stop being a prisoner of the moment. He’s averaging 9 yards per return this season which is very good. 🙄 We went through the same things earlier in the same after the Cook fumble game……people were making threads acting he was the worst RB on the roster. Harty sucks as a WR/gadget player, but as a punt returner he’s been just fine. Edited December 25, 2023 by streetkings01 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niagara Dude Posted December 25, 2023 Author Share Posted December 25, 2023 9 minutes ago, RichRiderBills said: IMO Harty and Sherfield are both FA busts that could easily be replaced w rookies or UDFA. It is part of the reason why we lost our true identity as a explosive passing team. Teams just throw attention to Diggs and hope Davis runs the wrong route. The WR room is weaker now then the previous 3 seasons because of those two guys almost never make plays. Just now, streetkings01 said: Outside of that fumble he hasn’t been bad on punt returns……stop being a prisoner of the moment. 🙄 We went through the same things earlier in the same after the Cook fumble game……people were making threads acting he was the worst RB on the roster. Harty sucks as a WR/gadget player, but as a punt returner he’s been just fine. Really, even outside of the fumble his returning looks ugly and lost. Maybe watch the games more closely 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Negan Posted December 25, 2023 Share Posted December 25, 2023 I just want Shakir returning all punts and kickoffs moving forward. Please 🙏!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Guy on the Bench Posted December 25, 2023 Share Posted December 25, 2023 4 minutes ago, streetkings01 said: Outside of that fumble he hasn’t been bad on punt returns……stop being a prisoner of the moment. 🙄 We went through the same things earlier in the same after the Cook fumble game……people were making threads acting he was the worst RB on the roster. Harty sucks as a WR/gadget player, but as a punt returner he’s been just fine. Disagree. Fumbles happen. Whatever. But he has no feel for returning and hasn’t all year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Romes Posted December 25, 2023 Share Posted December 25, 2023 Hines was one of the most expensive returner specialists in the league and worth the money. I told myself Hines could have been a 1-1.5 game loss overall when he went down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokebball Posted December 25, 2023 Share Posted December 25, 2023 7 minutes ago, streetkings01 said: Outside of that fumble he hasn’t been bad on punt returns……stop being a prisoner of the moment. He’s averaging 9 yards per return this season which is very good. 🙄 We went through the same things earlier in the same after the Cook fumble game……people were making threads acting he was the worst RB on the roster. Harty sucks as a WR/gadget player, but as a punt returner he’s been just fine. While I agree, we need to fill a couple of spots in that WR room with guys that can go up and win a 50/50 ball. Josh really needs one of those type of WR. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
streetkings01 Posted December 25, 2023 Share Posted December 25, 2023 Like I said before you guys are prisoner of the moment. You guys see one bad thing a player does and y’all start threads acting like he’s been doing it all season. His punt returning has been fine up until that fumble. A 9.1 average is middle of the pack and what you want at a minimum from your returner. The issue with Harty is he adds absolutely nothing as a WR….thats where the criticism should be focused. We saw the same thing with Cook…..ran outta bounds to avoid contact and thread after thread popped up about how he hasn’t broken a tackle in his life…..prisoner of the moment bs! 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toledo Bill Posted December 25, 2023 Share Posted December 25, 2023 11 minutes ago, Negan said: I just want Shakir returning all punts and kickoffs moving forward. Please 🙏!! Shakir has been coming on as a receiver and I hope he gets more chances. If I remember correctly he was not impressive on kickoff returns.. he kept running right into people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillMafia716ix Posted December 25, 2023 Share Posted December 25, 2023 They swung and missed on him for sure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einstein's Dog Posted December 25, 2023 Share Posted December 25, 2023 26 minutes ago, streetkings01 said: Outside of that fumble he hasn’t been bad on punt returns……stop being a prisoner of the moment. He’s averaging 9 yards per return this season which is very good. 🙄 We went through the same things earlier in the same after the Cook fumble game……people were making threads acting he was the worst RB on the roster. Harty sucks as a WR/gadget player, but as a punt returner he’s been just fine. Harty has fielded the punts well- no muffs. I believe this was his first fumble and it was on the return. Harty wasn't worth the money but I at least trust him to catch the punt. Harty's fumble was a fluke. Lets not compare him to Cook. Cook is pretty much the opposite situation. Cook is a good valuable player who however, has very real ball security issues. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted December 25, 2023 Share Posted December 25, 2023 It’s actually amazing how little separation he gets when he runs routes. Quentin Morris at like 260 pounds gets more. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WickedGame Posted December 25, 2023 Share Posted December 25, 2023 Man, I love being a Bills fan, but y’all sure know how to get in the Christmas spirit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillyG Posted December 25, 2023 Share Posted December 25, 2023 36 minutes ago, Dat said: I miss Nyheim Hines, Harty catches the ball and just stands there like he glitched out while I yell “RUN”. I don’t ever remember doing that with Hines, he took off immediately. The Hines injury does have an impact here IMO. I recall in TC at one of the Beane pressers he talked about hoping someone could step into the return role and let the offense be able to use Harty more. Said they didn't want to put too much on Harty as a return man and let him focus on learning his WR duties. That said, even when given snaps he really hasn't done much to earn more time. I think he will be back next year and one of him or Hines will be the returner while the other is sent packing. Let's hope Hines heals well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niagara Dude Posted December 25, 2023 Author Share Posted December 25, 2023 39 minutes ago, Last Guy on the Bench said: Disagree. Fumbles happen. Whatever. But he has no feel for returning and hasn’t all year. This is my point, even before that fumble he looks lost returning punts, like he has never done this before. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sierra Foothills Posted December 25, 2023 Share Posted December 25, 2023 58 minutes ago, Niagara Dude said: Is it me or does this guy just look ugly returning punts, even before his fumble that almost cost this last game he just looks totally lost and an accident waiting to happen... When you include his contribution as a WR and how much we paid him this was a terrible signing, in fact his cap humber at just over 4 mllion is higher then Hopkins cap number at 3.9 mllion with the Titans. I was willing to give the Bills the benefit of the doubt on Harty because Beane's track record is pretty good and he certainly would know better than me who would be a good signing. That said: On March 16, 2023 which is the very day we signed Deonty Harty, the Dolphins signed Braxton Berrios. The Bills signed Harty to a 2 year $9.5 million contract with a $2.75 million signing bonus. The Dolphins signed Berrios to a 1 year $3.5 million contract with a $1.5 million signing bonus. Berrios is bigger, faster and largely had better combine numbers. Berrios has outperformed Harty as a receiver and as a runner over their 5 year playing careers. Berrios has also outperformed Harty as a punt returner 11.1 ypr vs 9.1 ypr. It looks like we signed the wrong guy for more money. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deonte_Harty https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Braxton_Berrios https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HarrDe07.htm https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BerrBr00.htm https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/deonte-harty-29629/ https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/miami-dolphins/braxton-berrios-25311/ 37 minutes ago, streetkings01 said: Outside of that fumble he hasn’t been bad on punt returns……stop being a prisoner of the moment. He’s averaging 9 yards per return this season which is very good. 🙄 Harty sucks as a WR/gadget player, but as a punt returner he’s been just fine. 23 minutes ago, streetkings01 said: Like I said before you guys are prisoner of the moment. You guys see one bad thing a player does and y’all start threads acting like he’s been doing it all season... We saw the same thing with Cook…..ran outta bounds to avoid contact and thread after thread popped up about how he hasn’t broken a tackle in his life…..prisoner of the moment bs! "Recency bias" is a really good term. Easier to write, too. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted December 25, 2023 Share Posted December 25, 2023 22 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said: Harty has fielded the punts well- no muffs. I believe this was his first fumble and it was on the return. Harty wasn't worth the money but I at least trust him to catch the punt. Harty's fumble was a fluke. Lets not compare him to Cook. Cook is pretty much the opposite situation. Cook is a good valuable player who however, has very real ball security issues. Cook hadn’t had an issue with ball security since his very first play in the nfl until now tho. im not sure it’s much of an issue really but I will say it’s definitely in his head at this point. if we’re trusting Hardy to just fair catch punts why not use the roster spot for someone that can play WR and just trot anyone out there on punts, wave the fair catch flag in the air, and run under the kick. Letting it just bounce. What’s the difference if we get it at the 8 or the 3 really? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterpan Posted December 25, 2023 Share Posted December 25, 2023 Let’s just saw our WRs as a whole are just terrible. Even Diggs has been a shell of himself recently- I think he is injured. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted December 25, 2023 Share Posted December 25, 2023 16 minutes ago, Sierra Foothills said: I was willing to give the Bills the benefit of the doubt on Harty because Beane's track record is pretty good and he certainly would know better than me who would be a good signing. That said: On March 16, 2023 which is the very day we signed Deonty Harty, the Dolphins signed Braxton Berrios. The Bills signed Harty to a 2 year $9.5 million contract with a $2.75 million signing bonus. The Dolphins signed Berrios to a 1 year $3.5 million contract with a $1.5 million signing bonus. Berrios is bigger, faster and largely had better combine numbers. Berrios has outperformed Harty as a receiver and as a runner over their 5 year playing careers. Berrios has also outperformed Harty as a punt returner 11.1 ypr vs 9.1 ypr. It looks like we signed the wrong guy for more money. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deonte_Harty https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Braxton_Berrios https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HarrDe07.htm https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BerrBr00.htm https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/deonte-harty-29629/ https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/miami-dolphins/braxton-berrios-25311/ They might have been targeting Berrios, he chose Miami and they panicked and upped their offer to Harty and he signed. It was a bad signing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billzgobowlin Posted December 25, 2023 Share Posted December 25, 2023 Partly him and partly our coverage sucks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sierra Foothills Posted December 25, 2023 Share Posted December 25, 2023 Just now, Doc said: They might have been targeting Berrios, he chose Miami and they panicked and upped their offer to Harty and he signed. It was a bad signing. I suppose that's possible. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearNorth Posted December 25, 2023 Share Posted December 25, 2023 22 minutes ago, peterpan said: Let’s just saw our WRs as a whole are just terrible. Even Diggs has been a shell of himself recently- I think he is injured. If our WR's are so terrible, we should be at the bottom of the league in passing stats, and we're not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einstein's Dog Posted December 25, 2023 Share Posted December 25, 2023 33 minutes ago, mrags said: Cook hadn’t had an issue with ball security since his very first play in the nfl until now tho. im not sure it’s much of an issue really but I will say it’s definitely in his head at this point. if we’re trusting Hardy to just fair catch punts why not use the roster spot for someone that can play WR and just trot anyone out there on punts, wave the fair catch flag in the air, and run under the kick. Letting it just bounce. What’s the difference if we get it at the 8 or the 3 really? What? How soon we forget. Cook fumbled three times vs Denver, two that were recovered by Denver. That's a problem. Cook has lost the ball with fumbles on his first touch in a game twice so far (the Rams + Denver). In a little over 30 games he's done it twice. That is a record for anyone with over 30 games. Ball security has been an issue with Cook from day 1 and remains an issue today. He's not a big or strong guy who now has a reputation for putting the ball on the ground - he should know defenses are coming to take the ball away from him, but at times it doesn't seem like he gets the message (like Denver). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einstein Posted December 25, 2023 Share Posted December 25, 2023 1 hour ago, streetkings01 said: Outside of that fumble he hasn’t been bad on punt returns……stop being a prisoner of the moment. He’s averaging 9 yards per return this season which is very good. 🙄 9 yards per return barely gets him into the top half of the league (14th in the NFL) and only 2/10ths of a yard more than Isaiah McKenzie (who is making $3.5M less on average). I wouldn’t personally call that very good. Perhaps “average”. My issue has always been the contract we gave him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherlock Holmes Posted December 25, 2023 Share Posted December 25, 2023 2 hours ago, Niagara Dude said: How about Isabella? I just have so many times where Harty present himself in position for players to strip ball away. he just never seems be able to find or get to the edges and way too much east and west running. It looks very ugly and maybe even Shakir could be an option because the risks with this guy don't equate to high rewards . Harty does not even seem come close to breaking one or teams need to be worried about him 100 percent Isabella!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddyjj Posted December 25, 2023 Share Posted December 25, 2023 19 minutes ago, Einstein said: 9 yards per return barely gets him into the top half of the league (14th in the NFL) and only 2/10ths of a yard more than Isaiah McKenzie (who is making $3.5M less on average). The same Lil Dirty who got released by Colts for Conduct Detrimental to the Team. The Hines injury hurt the Bills on STs more than most realize. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nephilim17 Posted December 25, 2023 Share Posted December 25, 2023 I keep hearing about this cat's speed but I never see him run and think, wow, he's scary fast. He's faster than average, but nothing special. At least as far as I've seen. Draft a fast, hopefully big but not small, WR early in the draft. Make sure he has good hands and is coachable. I can look past production if he's got traits and hands (we're not getting a 6'4" receiver who runs a 4.35 and has three years of top-level production at the bottom of the first; you need to compromise on something that low). Josh needs an elite WR weapon for the next 8 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastport bills Posted December 25, 2023 Share Posted December 25, 2023 This guy has done nothing and that fumble hurt us. When Hines went down we lost a great returner and there is no replacement on this roster. Harty has caught every punt so far until the Chargers, if he just doesn’t put it on the ground, he’ll be fine. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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