Bills @ Chiefs Postgame Thread

[That's No Moon]

Just now, BRH said:

 

 

It's almost like they thought it would look more like a straight line to the refs if Toney lined up a yard ahead of the ball and the RT lined up a yard behind it.  A little trick of perspective.  Problem is, there are actually yard lines and *****.

Well, if they don't call the RT ever, and clearly see it every play, maybe they won't call the WR either. From their reaction you clearly see the entitlement. Demanding a warning for a player who never checked with the official rather than owning up to the mistake.

[BRH]

I guess the next thing will be people scrutinizing every Chiefs offensive play this season to see how many times someone lined up Offside and whether it was called or a "warning" was given.

 

 

[Beck Water]

9 minutes ago, BRH said:

 

I think it may very well already be happening.  They went off on the refs last week in Green Bay too.

 

Couldn't happen to a more deserving bunch.

 

 

I missed that, did they (Mahomes and Reid) really?  considering they were gifted a late hit/UR call on Mahomes that sustained a drive, That's Some *****.

[Scott7975]

6 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Was there someone saying we should trade Allen?  I avoid the game day threads and focus on the post game stuff so did I miss this insanity?

 

 

 

Not in the gameday thread.  I seen like one or two people post on it in other threads back towards maybe the Denver or Pats game.  It was ridiculous and I don't even remember who it was.

[MJS]

5 minutes ago, stuvian said:

while every game against a good team is situational in historical perspective, I feel like we got a monkey off our back in our history with the Chiefs.

 

Now about those Bengals...

We beat them in the regular season the past two years as well.

[BRH]

Just now, Scott7975 said:

 

Not in the gameday thread.  I seen like one or two people post on it in other threads back towards maybe the Denver or Pats game.  It was ridiculous and I don't even remember who it was.

 

I also have seen it, and didn't bother to learn the screennames of the whackadoodles who posted it.

[CincyBillsFan]

4 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Watching postgame there’s absolutely zero chance Pegula and Beane fire McDermott.

I agree.  And though I believe moving on from McD would be in the best interests of the Bills going forward I did feel for the guy at the end when after the Bills stopped the Chiefs they showed McD on the sideline almost keeling over with relief.

 

And it was clear that the Bills played for McD yesterday.  Say what you will but he hasn't lost this locker room.

 

With that being said though we still saw the issues of a Bill's offense that has been neglected over the last few years, particularly on the O line & at WR.  As I look around the league the most successful caches & organizations are those that prioritize the offense.

 

And in the end the D did give up a TD that might have led to another excruciating loss. 

 

But this WAS  great win there is no denying it.  And if McD can get the Bills into the playoffs and then in the off season reset the draft & FA priority towards strengthening the offense I would be very happy to have been wrong about McD.

 

 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

3 minutes ago, MJS said:

We beat them in the regular season the past two years as well.

Past three years*. They haven’t beaten us in the regular season in a long time now.  Mahomes has never beaten us at arrowhead in the regular season

 

13 seconds kind of saved their bacon…Josh and the bills owning the chiefs would be a big story if it wasn’t for that 

we’d be 4-0 against them since the 2020 season all at arrowhead if it wasn’t for that 

Edited December 11, 2023 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[Beck Water]

1 minute ago, That's No Moon said:

Well, if they don't call the RT ever, and clearly see it every play, maybe they won't call the WR either. From their reaction you clearly see the entitlement. Demanding a warning for a player who never checked with the official rather than owning up to the mistake.

 

They do call the RT.  He's had 15 penalties this season including 7 false start (which is a dead ball foul thus supercedes Offside) and 1 offsetting.

 

Thing is, it's like DBs mugging the receiver, even if they're called for DPI or DH it's not called nearly as often as they do it. 

 

But the Chiefs have been (IMHO) getting the "star treatment" on penalties IMHO, thus their reaction I guess.

[DrDawkinstein]

1 minute ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

Past three years*. They haven’t beaten us in the regular season in a long time now.  Mahomes has never beaten us at arrowhead in the regular season

 

I believe we're even 4/4 in the regular season going back to McD beating them with Tyrod in 2017.

[newcam2012]

2 hours ago, Magox said:

Thats what gives hope for the Bills going far in the playoffs.

 

who are the top teams in the AFC?

 

Chiefs?  We can beat them

 

Dolphins? We have show we can beat them

 

Raven?  They may be playing the best in the AFC and they aren’t world beaters.

This is so true but I'd think it's far to say other teams and fans are saying similar things about the Bills. 

 

There is still a long way to the playoffs and it will be on the road. Just wanna get there. Never thought I'd be saying that. This season hasn't gone like I thought it would. 

 

Yes, the Bills are dangerous similar to the Chargers a couple of years ago who fell just short of the playoffs. 

[KellyToTasker]

Just now, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

Past three years*. They haven’t beaten us in the regular season in a long time now.  Mahomes has never beaten us at arrowhead in the regular season

I think he’s saying, in addition to this season, we’ve also beaten the Chiefs the last two regular season games. I had to read it twice. 

[Gregg]

I am surprised no one is talking about the most exciting game of the day yesterday. The thrilling 3-0 Vikings win over the Raiders.

[gonzo1105]

4 minutes ago, Gregg said:

I am surprised no one is talking about the most exciting game of the day yesterday. The thrilling 3-0 Vikings win over the Raiders.

 

I had Adams and Hockenson on my fantasy team and I was gouging my eyes out just watching it on Gamecast. I could only imagine if I was a fan of those teams watching that then again I have seen 9-6 so I guess its not that far off. 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

12 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

This is so true but I'd think it's far to say other teams and fans are saying similar things about the Bills. 

 

There is still a long way to the playoffs and it will be on the road. Just wanna get there. Never thought I'd be saying that. This season hasn't gone like I thought it would. 

 

Yes, the Bills are dangerous similar to the Chargers a couple of years ago who fell just short of the playoffs. 

I don’t agree…I think other teams are rooting pretty hard that we miss the playoffs honestly…I’m sure dolphins fans are.  Especially given some of the alternative wildcard teams are the colts and bengals with backup qbs 
 

to an outsider looking in it feels like we’ve gotten pretty unlucky this year. I see a lot of other fanbases mocking us for wanting to fire McDermott and such lol 

[Man with No Name]

Good win. But knowing they won't get rid of McDermott takes the wind out of my sails. He will just never be the right guy for Allen. Maybe it will be healthy for the entire fanbase to temper expectations. We are in for a Dan Reeves/ Marty Schottenheimer type run for the foreseeable future. Maybe we will luck into the big one once. 

 

Worse coaches have won a SB. Im pretty sure. 

Edited December 11, 2023 by Man with No Name

[Beck Water]

47 minutes ago, theRalph said:

Have you actually watched Lamar?? 

 

I have actually, and I've been pretty impressed how his passing  has improved and how the Ravens passing offense has developed this season under their new OC.

 

20 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

I believe we're even 4/4 in the regular season going back to McD beating them with Tyrod in 2017.

 

?

Have played Chiefs 5x in regular season under McDermott.  4-1 regular season, 0-2 playoffs.

Edited December 11, 2023 by Beck Water

[416BillsFan]

The expert weighs in

 

 

[Scott7975]

4 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

I don’t agree…I think other teams are rooting pretty hard that we miss the playoffs honestly…I’m sure dolphins fans are.  Especially given some of the alternative wildcard teams are the colts and bengals with backup qbs 
 

to an outsider looking in it feels like we’ve gotten pretty unlucky this year. I see a lot of other fanbases mocking us for wanting to fire McDermott and such lol 

 

Agree.  The only thing I would say right now is the Bengals are still kicking ass.  They have a lot of talent on the offensive side of the football and their backup is playing well.  Hopefully a film thing will fix that as DCs get more tape on him and can scheme him.

[DrDawkinstein]

5 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

?

Have played Chiefs 5x in regular season under McDermott.  4-1 regular season, 0-2 playoffs.

 

Ah, I missed the 2020 game when I was looking through the schedules!

[Airseven]

32 minutes ago, stuvian said:

while every game against a good team is situational in historical perspective, I feel like we got a monkey off our back in our history with the Chiefs.

 

No. The Bills have fared well against the Chiefs during the regular season. The monkey looms in the playoffs or a do/die game for both teams.

[Scott7975]

5 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

I have actually, and I've been pretty impressed how his passing  has improved and how the Ravens passing offense has developed this season under their new OC.

 

His passing isn't any better than it has been.  I hear this every year about how his passing is improved. It isn't.  It's the same.  Statistically no different other than maybe a little completion percentage or something.  He is still towards the bottom of the league in yards and tds and first downs and sacks.

[Mango]

4 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

For sure. I was wondering from an Xs and Os standpoint what happened. The Bills O looked pretty good in the first half. Mixing up the run and pass. Making lots of plays. The oline held up pretty well. 

 

In the second half, Allen was under constant duress. The Bills seemed out of sync and in scramble mode. Cook seemed to disappear and I remember lots of WR screens that were ineffective. The Bills WRs were almost non existent. 

 

I would welcome input. 

My quick $0.02 is that it started after the INT. The very next offensive play was an ill advised throw down field to a well covered Dawson Knox. Then 3-4 head scratching shovel passes. We struggled in the passing game to get the WR involved. 
 

All in all I think we just started to grip too tight and do too much. 
 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

3 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Ah, I missed the 2020 game when I was looking through the schedules!

 

4 straight at Allenhead in regular season tho.

[Coach Tuesday]

Do folks not realize what an absolute GIFT it is for the Bills for Mahomes and Reid to blast the officials for doing their jobs?  
 

Good luck getting helpful calls now, Kermit.

Edited December 11, 2023 by Coach Tuesday

[Beck Water]

25 minutes ago, Man with No Name said:

Good win. But knowing they won't get rid of McDermott takes the wind out of my sails. He will just never be the right guy for Allen. Maybe it will be healthy for the entire fanbase to temper expectations. We are in for a Dan Reeves/ Marty Schottenheimer type run for the foreseeable future. Maybe we will luck into the big one once. 

 

This may surprise some folks considering my views on Dunne's opinion pieces, but I don't see that as a foregone conclusion at all.

 

I think there is legit concern about the quality of McDermott's play calls and in-game decision making.  I've heard Jim Kelly state publicly the latter has to get better.  It wouldn't surprise me if people Pegula listens to (Bill Polian and so forth) would state the same concerns to Pegula in private.   Then there are the 12 men gaffes and the excessive penalties this season, especially pre-snap.

 

I also think that Pegula is legitimately "allergic" to being publicly embarrassed, and some of the stories told in Dunne's piece are embarrassing (not just 9/11)

 

Counterbalancing that, I believe Pegula doesn't care for what he considers biased or over-the-top media treatment (he commented after Whaley's infamous "not privy" presser that he felt it a shame what was happening to Whaley in the press), and I think his experiences with the Sabres have taught him that change for the sake of change is unwise.  The Bills have won enough under McDermott to make it a legit concern to Pegula that they can more easily do worse than better.

 

Anyway, I think it's probably true that McDermott will be reviewed at the end of the season and I think the jury will debate then, so to speak

Edited December 11, 2023 by Beck Water

[JerseyBills]

This is awesome 

 

 

[Royale with Cheese]

31 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

This is so true but I'd think it's far to say other teams and fans are saying similar things about the Bills. 

 

There is still a long way to the playoffs and it will be on the road. Just wanna get there. Never thought I'd be saying that. This season hasn't gone like I thought it would. 

 

Yes, the Bills are dangerous similar to the Chargers a couple of years ago who fell just short of the playoffs. 

Are you going to X every single positive thing about the Bills this week like you did last week while in timeout?

[Airseven]

2 minutes ago, Mango said:

My quick $0.02 is that it started after the INT. The very next offensive play was an ill advised throw down field to a well covered Dawson Knox. Then 3-4 head scratching shovel passes. We struggled in the passing game to get the WR involved. 
 

All in all I think we just started to grip too tight and do too much. 
 

 

 

Agreed. The INT was again a turning point. Not sure if the team gets mentally fatigued by the turnovers or the coaches deliberately try to protect Allen from snowballing. Lots of errant reads/passes downfield and the forced screens to Diggs were pathetic. The OL disintegrating under pressure in the fourth quarter didn't help matters. 

[Last Guy on the Bench]

Sorry if posted already - I've been trying to keep up but may have missed it. But here is a comment from the Athletic (Mike Sando article) with an angle on how the Toney penalty is viewed around the league:

 

2. Does Mahomes have a point about the offensive offside call? He’s not getting much sympathy.

Down judge Mike Carr threw the flag right away, well before Mahomes threw the ball to Kelce, and well before anyone knew the offensive offside penalty against Toney would wipe out an incredible play.

“It’s tough to swallow, not only from me, and football in general, to take away greatness like that,” Mahomes said afterward. “For a guy like Travis to make a play like that, you want to see the guys on the field decide the game. … I’ve never had offensive Offside called. If it does, they warn you. There wasn’t a warning the entire game. And then you make a call like that in the final minute? Another game, we’re talking about the refs. It’s not what we want for the NFL. It’s not what we want for football.”

Lots to unpack here. Terry McAulay, the former NFL referee now providing analysis for NBC, noted that officials have called offensive offside 11 times this season, up from twice in 2022 and once in 2021. It was called a 12th time during the Philadelphia-Dallas game. McAulay called Toney’s violation an easy call, and consistent with how the rule has been interpreted this season.

On-air officiating analysts typically rally to the support of their on-field friends, but in a league filled with coaches and executives embittered by inconsistent calls, there was no outrage over this one.

“The line-of-scrimmage officials are in charge of the entire neutral zone — pass-rusher alignments, center head bobs, all those things,” an NFL team exec said. “When someone aligns as ridiculously Offside as Toney did, the officials can’t see in there to do their jobs. It’s an easy flag when it’s that blatant.”

The NFL this season has sent officiating enforcement tapes to teams with a focus on presnap alignment rules for offensive linemen on “tush push” plays, according to league sources. One of those videos from November referenced receiver alignment, noting that officials would throw flags if the violations were blatant. The video included an example play when offensive offside was called against a receiver.

“It was the right call,” a former head coach said. “It is so obvious when you are close to the tackle. I mean, I can’t believe there would be anyone that you would talk to who would say that was not a penalty.”

[Nihilarian]

Dunno if this was mentioned before ... I think Travis Kelce in honor of the "Music City Miricle" play and the now late Frank Wycheck's throwback, Travis threw it back for a resulting TD.

 

A darn shame it didn't count as it would have been the play of the day. 😢

 

 

😁

 

That smiley face at the bottom was to show that I'm very happy that the pass-dropping, off-sides lining dufas KT screwed the Chiefs out of a win!

Edited December 11, 2023 by Nihilarian

[Warcodered]

1 hour ago, Ralonzo said:

 

The part where Reid said "I don't know, I wasn't out there with my protractor" grated me. You're the coach, if the dummy you run out there doesn't line up correctly and doesn't check with the ref, then it's the ref's fault and not yours? That's everything Dunne slagged McDermott for being Mister Blameshifter.

1 hour ago, BillsFan4 said:

This may have already been posted.

 

It shows how far Offside Toney was much better than the screenshot with the deceiving blue line.

 

how spoiled are Mahomes + Reid that they think this call should have just been overlooked?

 

offensive Offside has been called a lot more frequently this season (I think this was the 12th time)

Does he have a yard stick?

[Beck Water]

5 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

His passing isn't any better than it has been.  I hear this every year about how his passing is improved. It isn't.  It's the same.  Statistically no different other than maybe a little completion percentage or something.  He is still towards the bottom of the league in yards and tds and first downs and sacks.

 

We'll have to agree to disagree, then.

 

I think this highlights an instance where sometimes statistics can be a forest that hides changes in the trees (and I say this as a stats geek)

 

It used to be true that Jackson would take the short throws to the TE across the field, and deep throws down the middle of the field, but he couldn't make the deeper throws to the sideline.  It allowed teams to focus their defenses after the pattern developed.  Then he started taking those throws, but not necessarily making them.  I can't tell you if it's better WR, or if he's just kept working on it, but I think opponents recognize this year, they have to defend those areas now.

 

I'm sure there are stats that track this somewhere

[LarryMadman]

Yeah the Bills won but I haven't seen anywhere that the defense once again let the opponent drive the field and score. Granted the play was called back due to the offside but Kelce was wide the eff open again. Credit the Bills for stopping KC after that but still doesnt change the soft defense before that point. This is very concerning because teams generally do not shoot themselves in the foot like KC did.

[julian]

59 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Minus a fluke mistake by a WR, not sure McD has figured anything out on late-game defense with the results of that play. But sure, I can appreciate they arent just giving them the underneath. Although letting Kelce run free deep might be showing us WHY they line up off the ball.

Didn’t McDermott’s still have to get a 3rd and 4th down stop to win the game after the “fluke mistake” ?

[Mango]

7 minutes ago, Airseven said:

 

Agreed. The INT was again a turning point. Not sure if the team gets mentally fatigued by the turnovers or the coaches deliberately try to protect Allen from snowballing. Lots of errant reads/passes downfield and the forced screens to Diggs were pathetic. The OL disintegrating under pressure in the fourth quarter didn't help matters. 

The talk today would have been a lot different had KT wasn’t offside.
 

The conversation today would have been about that missed TD to Davis. We never should have been in position where that lateral mattered. 
 

Special game ball to Frank Wycheck for not letting this happen to Buffalo twice. 

[newcam2012]

10 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Are you going to X every single positive thing about the Bills this week like you did last week while in timeout?

No but I will try to be a voice of reason. Hoping you can do the same. 

[Steptide]

3 minutes ago, LarryMadman said:

Yeah the Bills won but I haven't seen anywhere that the defense once again let the opponent drive the field and score. Granted the play was called back due to the offside but Kelce was wide the eff open again. Credit the Bills for stopping KC after that but still doesnt change the soft defense before that point. This is very concerning because teams generally do not shoot themselves in the foot like KC did.

I commented here earlier today about it. Makes me nervous for the upcoming 4 games. Our secondary is old with Hyde and Poyer and it shows at times (I know Hyde wasn't in for that play). I almost think in these situations it'd be better to put the younger guys in. Von is also completely useless at this point and I think Lawson might almost have a bigger impact at the end of games 

[newcam2012]

18 minutes ago, Mango said:

My quick $0.02 is that it started after the INT. The very next offensive play was an ill advised throw down field to a well covered Dawson Knox. Then 3-4 head scratching shovel passes. We struggled in the passing game to get the WR involved. 
 

All in all I think we just started to grip too tight and do too much. 
 

 

I didn't see it this way. I didn't see the offense being tight or super conservative. I saw them struggling to handle the Chief's pressure. The looked out of sync not right or passive to me. 

31 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

I don’t agree…I think other teams are rooting pretty hard that we miss the playoffs honestly…I’m sure dolphins fans are.  Especially given some of the alternative wildcard teams are the colts and bengals with backup qbs 
 

to an outsider looking in it feels like we’ve gotten pretty unlucky this year. I see a lot of other fanbases mocking us for wanting to fire McDermott and such lol 

I think this is partly true but I think there's a sentiment that the Bills fizzle out in the playoffs. I heard on the radio guys saying they don't trust the Bills D in crunch time. Hard to argue with that when taking in the past. 

[Beck Water]

7 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

Does he have a yard stick?

 

LOL

 

*SNAP*

 

My reaction to reading that remark was "this goes beyond what a protractor will check, Nuggie-man.  Bring your tape measure, or maybe a surveying team with a transit"