Fixing the Officiating

[NewEra]

I used to fight the good fight.

 

now I realize that the officiating is right where the league wants it.  

[JMM]

10 hours ago, Bob Jones said:

Defensive PI / Holding / Illegal Contact- 10 yards and NO automatic 1st down.

 

Offensive Holding - train the refs better, so that there is consistency across all officiating crews.

 

Roughing the QB - Make all QBs wear hi vis yellow skirts, and allow defenders to “down” them with just a 2-hand touch. 😉 Getting really tired of a lot of these Roughing the QB calls.

You're joking, but frankly I think we are headed down that road with the QB's, it's that ridiculous. 

[Freddie's Dead]

The officiating is already fixed.

[DrBob806]

49 minutes ago, Ya Digg? said:

Replay was brought in because the refs were making mistakes.  I know people look back at the earlier years with rose colored glasses, but refs made tons of mistakes back then as well.  The difference now is that the players are so much faster and stronger than they used to be, plus the addition of social media and everyone having an outlet to voice their opinion on, things seem worse than ever before

True. The Immaculate Reception (1972) & "Renfro was In" (1979) games involving the Steelers were prime examples of officals making big mistakes. Rob Lytle's fumble ruled a TD & Karlis' missed FG in AFC Championships in the 1980s as well.

 

Fast forward to replay though...is it really any better? They totally robbed Dez Bryant & the Cowboys at Green Bay, Tom Brady's "tuck rule," I just think it's way worse now. But I hear you, they really can't back track now, they're in too deep. 

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

11 hours ago, st pete gogolak said:

I’m not going to go down the conspiracy rabbit hole, but with all the money being bet on NFL games, the League HAS to do something to reduce the influence the officials have on game outcomes.  Obviously, it will never be reduced to zero, but there has to be a way to at least reduce their influence.  Here are my thoughts but very interested if anyone has a thought on this.

 

Defensive PI.  Move from spot foul to 15 yards.  If “flagrant” PI becomes an issue, tinker with the rule the following year.  
 

Illegal contact. Increase area for contact from 5 to 10 yards.  Eliminate ticky tack fouls. Contact has to be substantial and reduce receiver’s ability to contest for a catch.  The call on the Eagles last night in the second half gifting the Chiefs a first down was a travesty.  
 

Defensive holding. Again, eliminate ticky tack foul.  Holding has to reduce receiver’s ability to contest for a catch. 
 

Offensive holding. At least be consistent.

 

Sick of refs determining outcomes.  Thoughts?

 

Don't see how this changes anything.  The way I view it, every potential infraction can be viewed on a scale of 1 to 10.  Some refs may call a PI or def holding at a 2 level and another only at a 4 level. Eliminating the ticky tack as you suggest would just move the bar up, but won't really change the subjectivity of calls.  Add to that within a year or two of changing the standards, once everyone adjusts the same arguments will prevail, just at a higher level of what's an infraction and what isn't. 

 

To me the issue is the players have just got too big and too fast for officials to be able to deal with it consistently.

[LeGOATski]

Automate the officiating as much as possible. I would remove the officials from the field altogether. I'd have a chain gang, a ball spotter, and a time regulator. That's it. All penalty calls would come from the video reviewer in New York. If a legit foul was noticed on replay, then it would be called in and play reversed. This would almost completely eliminate all those ticky tack calls that have zero impact on the actual play.

[34-78-83]

The "Eye in the sky" refs that they've already added work great at quickly and efficiently making corrections to the types of plays they are allowed to comment on (ie. possession, out of bounds/in bounds, etc.). The best possible thing that could happen is to expand the allowable corrections from the eye in the sky refs to include any type of play (ie. reverse a horrible DPI call, or a head shot that was really a shoulder to shoulder, etc.).

 

This is the best and simplest "fix" they could possibly implement.

[Orlando Tim]

I am watching PAC12 championship and there was one terrible call but otherwise everything has been logical and proper. Sadly one atrocious call for a crew is now considered high quality. 

[Scott7975]

For me, the fix is they should be reviewed every week by an independent source and be held accountable for being bad at their job. 

[Nextmanup]

On 11/21/2023 at 9:39 AM, The Firebaugh Kid said:

Nobodys gonna like this, but some penalties and non penalties need to be reviewable. Human error will never go away.

Actually, the entire review/challenge system should be eliminated and go back to 1975.  As you said, human error will never go away.  The current system dramatically slows the game yet is FILLED WITH ERROR anyway.  The game will never be made "perfectly Truthfully correct" with any kind of instant replay system...

 

So get rid of it and we all live with calls on the field, and move on with our lives.

 

That's the No. 1 thing I'd like to see changed about the game.

 

 

[pennstate10]

1 hour ago, Scott7975 said:

For me, the fix is they should be reviewed every week by an independent source and be held accountable for being bad at their job. 

This is exactly true.

 

The way to correct this officiating is obvious.  For reasons that arent clear to me, the NFL refuses to fix this.

 

1)  Make NFL officials full time employees.  Would anyone here want a heart surgeon who operated only on weekends, and was an insurance salesman on weekdays?  This is just common sense. Practice may not make perfect, but it certainly makes better.

 

2)  Money talks.  Pay them more.  Attract the best candidates.  Start them at $250K/yr, escalating quickly to $500K.  Lets see--8 officials per crew, 16 total crews, 128 officials.  Times $400K per official.  Or $50 million/year total.  Divided by 32 teams  = $1.6 million per team.  Less than 0.7 % of the salary cap.  Less than a backup WR.  Would anyone here object to cutting Trent Sherfield if it meant you had high quality officials?

 

3)  Make the officials accountable.  Score them on the quality of their officiating each week.  The bottom 10% at the end of the year are let go.  At $250K/year, you'd have lots of high quality college officials knocking on your door.

[Figster]

Red flag challenge needs to include a missed penalty by the officials or to review a possible wrong penalty call by the officials. 

 

Its a simple fix IMO.  

[ChrisWatson#21]

It will never get fixed because they want it this way to steer outcomes.  They’re happy with how it is.  Believe me I’ve been watching football since the 80’s If they wanted to solve it they would have done so decades ago.  

[DaggersEOD]

With their sudden expansion/explosion into the sports betting world and their now close relationship with Vegas, the many terrible, game deciding penalties are starting to look suspicious. 
 

Some say that the NFL is completely clean and on the up and up. Others swear the whole thing is entirely scripted and the lure of Vegas money is too big a temptation to ignore. 
 

The shield doesn’t seem to mind the grumbling, as the revenue has also massively expanded. Sports betting has been good for the NFL. 

 

SPORTS betting…but the NFL isn’t a sport. It’s entertainment. As a matter of fact, betting on entertainment (like the WWE) is illegal in the US. 

 

So the obvious solution is to confront the NFL and tell them that unless they reclassify themselves as a sport, they cannot participate in sports betting.

 

That should lead to more oversight/management of the refs to ensure unbiased game officiating. 
 

Just a Sat morning thought. I’m sure there are a million reasons why it won’t work, but I’m still feeling salty today, almost a week later. LFG BUFFALO!!

[Steve Billieve]

I know everyone likes to complain about the refs, but I think officiating has steadily improved with tech and reviews.

 

I remember watching refs get field goals and touchdowns wrong as a kid. It's one thing to not like a call. It's another to make/miss a game winning field goal and have it called wrong.

[BADOLBILZ]

8 hours ago, pennstate10 said:

This is exactly true.

 

The way to correct this officiating is obvious.  For reasons that arent clear to me, the NFL refuses to fix this.

 

1)  Make NFL officials full time employees.  Would anyone here want a heart surgeon who operated only on weekends, and was an insurance salesman on weekdays?  This is just common sense. Practice may not make perfect, but it certainly makes better.

 

2)  Money talks.  Pay them more.  Attract the best candidates.  Start them at $250K/yr, escalating quickly to $500K.  Lets see--8 officials per crew, 16 total crews, 128 officials.  Times $400K per official.  Or $50 million/year total.  Divided by 32 teams  = $1.6 million per team.  Less than 0.7 % of the salary cap.  Less than a backup WR.  Would anyone here object to cutting Trent Sherfield if it meant you had high quality officials?

 

3)  Make the officials accountable.  Score them on the quality of their officiating each week.  The bottom 10% at the end of the year are let go.  At $250K/year, you'd have lots of high quality college officials knocking on your door.

 

 

"For reasons that aren't clear"?

 

Go back to page 1........... @Dancing Fool clearly explains it.

 

The NFL is "sports entertainment".

 

Complicated rules, relentlessly cheating players and part time officials make officiating difficult..........bad officiating creates drama and unpredictability.........those things sell the sport to the masses.

 

The NFL is a customer driven business not a player driven business........when the customer changes(stops responding to drama with increased interest) then the league will change.

 

And that's not likely to EVER happen because I am sure that controversy has always driven demand for any kind of successful pro sport.

 

My advice is learn to accept it as it is.

 

[BADOLBILZ]

4 hours ago, Figster said:

Red flag challenge needs to include a missed penalty by the officials or to review a possible wrong penalty call by the officials. 

 

Its a simple fix IMO.  

 

 

If you want to see how that kind of system works.........follow the NBA.

 

The players run that league and they lobbied hard to have power over officiating by being able to review just about everything.    It's slowed the game down and that power has turned the players into outright intolerable assh*les to the officials all game.........which in turn then leads to technical fouls and ejections..........which creates drama and alters scores/outcomes........which ultimately has the same effect as bad officiating.    

 

[Livinginthepast]

The NFL has to bring in a coaches challenge on Penalties and Non calls. The incredible interference (actually flattening of the receiver) in the Saints/Rams playoff game should have taught them. Looking at the play 4 years later I still find it baffling that there was no flag from supposedly an elite Officiating crew.  But for the NFL bringing in a simple rule change like that is like trying to steer the Titanic away from the iceberg, ie not happening soon or ever.

 

 

 

[JoPoy88]

17 minutes ago, DaggersEOD said:

With their sudden expansion/explosion into the sports betting world and their now close relationship with Vegas, the many terrible, game deciding penalties are starting to look suspicious. 
 

Some say that the NFL is completely clean and on the up and up. Others swear the whole thing is entirely scripted and the lure of Vegas money is too big a temptation to ignore. 
 

The shield doesn’t seem to mind the grumbling, as the revenue has also massively expanded. Sports betting has been good for the NFL. 

 

SPORTS betting…but the NFL isn’t a sport. It’s entertainment. As a matter of fact, betting on entertainment (like the WWE) is illegal in the US. 

 

So the obvious solution is to confront the NFL and tell them that unless they reclassify themselves as a sport, they cannot participate in sports betting.

 

That should lead to more oversight/management of the refs to ensure unbiased game officiating. 
 

Just a Sat morning thought. I’m sure there are a million reasons why it won’t work, but I’m still feeling salty today, almost a week later. LFG BUFFALO!!

Yeah I’m sure the NFL and Congress will get right on that. Thanks for sharing your diary entry.

[BuffaloRebound]

There’s too many guys on the field who can throw a flag.  All it takes is 1 over-officious jerk to affect the outcome of a game.  NBA has 3 refs.  It’s much easier to get 3 guys to work in unison.  That’s what’s missing in the NFL.  One guy on the crew gets flag happy and forces the other 7-8 refs to do the same.  It’s almost impossible to get a 7-8 man crew to work in unison where they’re all calling the same type of things in a game.  

[JoPoy88]

I love how we are now being schooled in the nuance of US gambling laws here. 
 

“See actually, the NFL is this not that and blah, blah, blah…” 

 

This was examined and litigated to death in actual courts with actual lawyers and actual experts after the Murphy ruling. It’s legal. And the refs were terrible before it was legal. 
 

please find something else to cry about.

[Fleezoid]

There's always this option.......

 

[Mr. WEO]

28 minutes ago, DaggersEOD said:

With their sudden expansion/explosion into the sports betting world and their now close relationship with Vegas, the many terrible, game deciding penalties are starting to look suspicious. 
 

Some say that the NFL is completely clean and on the up and up. Others swear the whole thing is entirely scripted and the lure of Vegas money is too big a temptation to ignore. 
 

The shield doesn’t seem to mind the grumbling, as the revenue has also massively expanded. Sports betting has been good for the NFL. 

 

SPORTS betting…but the NFL isn’t a sport. It’s entertainment. As a matter of fact, betting on entertainment (like the WWE) is illegal in the US. 

 

So the obvious solution is to confront the NFL and tell them that unless they reclassify themselves as a sport, they cannot participate in sports betting.

 

That should lead to more oversight/management of the refs to ensure unbiased game officiating. 
 

Just a Sat morning thought. I’m sure there are a million reasons why it won’t work, but I’m still feeling salty today, almost a week later. LFG BUFFALO!!

 

jeez, where to start??

 

First, the NFL doesn't "participate in sports betting" (anymore than they are participating in the manufacture of pickup trucks or beer)..betting companies are sponsors no doubt paying huge fee for the partnership.

 

Second, the ALL pro sports are simply entertainment and nothing else. Differentiating between "sport" and "entertainment"  is a meaningless exercise.  A casino, by definition, is a place of entertainment (literally, filled with "games" one can play)---and obviously legal betting happens there.

 

Third, Congress has no interest in reigning in the NFL--try campaigning on that.

 

 

[JoPoy88]

1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

jeez, where to start??

 

First, the NFL doesn't "participate in sports betting" (anymore than they are participating in the manufacture of pickup trucks or beer)..betting companies are sponsors no doubt paying huge fee for the partnership.

 

Second, the ALL pro sports are simply entertainment and nothing else. Differentiating between "sport" and "entertainment"  is a meaningless exercise.  A casino, by definition, is a place of entertainment (literally, filled with "games" one can play)---and obviously legal betting happens there.

 

Third, Congress has no interest in reigning in the NFL--try campaigning on that.

 

 

BUT BUT BUT he heard somewhere that football be the same as wrasslin’ so we need to really, REALLY look into this now that these refs be making all these bad calls, ALL OF A SUDDEN!

[Chaos]

7 minutes ago, BuffaloRebound said:

There’s too many guys on the field who can throw a flag.  All it takes is 1 over-officious jerk to affect the outcome of a game.  NBA has 3 refs.  It’s much easier to get 3 guys to work in unison.  That’s what’s missing in the NFL.  One guy on the crew gets flag happy and forces the other 7-8 refs to do the same.  It’s almost impossible to get a 7-8 man crew to work in unison where they’re all calling the same type of things in a game.  

10-player to 3 ref ratio

 

22 players on the field using the same ratio suggests        wait for it       7 refs in an nfl game. 

Square feet of an NBA court to cover 4700 square feet.  Square feet of football field = 57600. Based on size of field of play, the NFL would 37 referees to have the same coverage. 

 

The idea that three people could cover the field, while on the field, seems crazy.

Here is my crazy idea:

have 66 refs watching on monitors, rather than from on the field, with three people monitoring each player.  Similar to Olympic boxing scoring, all three need to signal a penalty on the player they are watching, and there is 1 or 2 people on the field designated to throw the flag.  If three people in real time agree a penatly happened, it is almost certain it is a penalty. 

66 people may sound like a lot, but given there are 60,000 people in the stadium and millions watching on TV, its not really that big of a number. 

[Mr. WEO]

1 minute ago, JoPoy88 said:

BUT BUT BUT he heard somewhere that football be the same as wrasslin’ so we need to really, REALLY look into this now that these refs be making all these bad calls, ALL OF A SUDDEN!

 

who the F is betting on the WWE, by the. way??

 

lol

[JTown]

I would like to see less officials on the field and more officials in the booth.  Typically, during a game the broadcast crew has reviewed the play before the ball is even spotted. 

[BuffaloRebound]

3 minutes ago, Chaos said:

10-player to 3 ref ratio

 

22 players on the field using the same ratio suggests        wait for it       7 refs in an nfl game. 

Square feet of an NBA court to cover 4700 square feet.  Square feet of football field = 57600. Based on size of field of play, the NFL would 37 referees to have the same coverage. 

 

The idea that three people could cover the field, while on the field, seems crazy.

Here is my crazy idea:

have 66 refs watching on monitors, rather than from on the field, with three people monitoring each player.  Similar to Olympic boxing scoring, all three need to signal a penalty on the player they are watching, and there is 1 or 2 people on the field designated to throw the flag.  If three people in real time agree a penatly happened, it is almost certain it is a penalty. 

66 people may sound like a lot, but given there are 60,000 people in the stadium and millions watching on TV, its not really that big of a number. 

Not saying 3 people can cover an NFL field, just laying out the problem the NFL has in getting 7-8 refs to work in unison.  I’ve always felt the NFL you should have eyes on every player.  Throwing a flag without having eyes on every player becomes a completely arbitrary thing and is what drives real fans of the game crazy.  

[JoPoy88]

18 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

who the F is betting on the WWE, by the. way??

 

lol

Right. The “point” if you want to call it that people here and elsewhere are now clinging to is things like the WWE and NFL are both classified as “entertainment” or some such similar definition. Except they’re not. Not nowhere in the various laws that govern legal sports gambling will you see the NFL and the WWE as equivalent or in the same class. They are distinct and what you can bet on is subject to various state laws, not one overarching federal law. 
 

basically some salty fan after the Eagles game went on truth social and scrolled around too much and this is what we get here now. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

Edited December 2, 2023 by JoPoy88

[CincyBillsFan]

1 minute ago, JTown said:

I would like to see less officials on the field and more officials in the booth.  Typically, during a game the broadcast crew has reviewed the play before the ball is even spotted. 

This weekend the Ohio High School football State championships are being played at the Hall of Fame stadium in Canton.  There are 7 divisions (sorted by school size) so 7 championship games are played in all.  It's televised state wide and I try to watch most of the games.  In all the games replay is used.  BTW it's only used for these games no others.  So far after 4 games replay has successfully overturned multiple big mistake by the on field officials. It's safe to say that in 2 of the 4 games the replay has been the difference.  

 

So yea, a move to reduce on field officials and replace them with enhanced sky in the eye reviews would be better. 

 

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

who the F is betting on the WWE, by the. way??

 

lol

Huh...who isn't?

[Sherlock Holmes]

2 hours ago, JoPoy88 said:

BUT BUT BUT he heard somewhere that football be the same as wrasslin’ so we need to really, REALLY look into this now that these refs be making all these bad calls, ALL OF A SUDDEN!

 

2 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

who the F is betting on the WWE, by the. way??

 

lol

It sounds like you guys are insinuating wrestling is fixed🤣

[Punching Bag]

On 11/21/2023 at 10:14 AM, ddaryl said:

A.I. Coming our way soon regarding officiating.

 

A.I. is how AWS gave us our current schedule with home game in London with Jaguars having home game week before and current gauntlet of playoff contenders in a row.

[oldmanfan]

You will never be able to add enough technology to make calls foolproof and have games that last 3 hours.  No matter what is done there will always be a measure of human interpretation and error.  So for me?  Get rid of replay, accept that human error is part of the game, only call egregious penalties, and move on.

[Billsfan1972]

CFL is a little smarter and it would work easily in the NFL.  Simply the "Command" Centre should make a review and make it quick.

 

https://cfldb.ca/rulebook/instant-replay/coach-initiated-reviews/#:~:text=A coach can challenge any,catches%2C fumbles%2C recovery of fumbles 

 

Would have been fun vs. the Eagles to see the crew exposed.

[dgrochester55]

It's not just questioning whether games are fixed, it is bad calling altogether.   There are some games where it feels like there is a flag every other play.    I dislike the Jets, but I had sympathy for their fans when they were blatantly robbed in the Chiefs game/Taylor Swift cross promotion earlier this year.   I know a few non Bills fans who felt that the officiating in Sundays game was an embarrassment.

 

I propose a system similar to a PFF rating for players based on call consistency, bad calls and non calls where an independent party reviews each performance after a game.   If a ref is above a set high number, they get the bigger games, if they fall below a set low number,  they are fired, suspended or "benched". 

 

Whatever they decide, something needs to be done. 

[Dancing Fool]

4 hours ago, JoPoy88 said:

Right. The “point” if you want to call it that people here and elsewhere are now clinging to is things like the WWE and NFL are both classified as “entertainment” or some such similar definition. Except they’re not. Not nowhere in the various laws that govern legal sports gambling will you see the NFL and the WWE as equivalent or in the same class. They are distinct and what you can bet on is subject to various state laws, not one overarching federal law. 
 

basically some salty fan after the Eagles game went on truth social and scrolled around too much and this is what we get here now. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

*Reads your post*

*Looks at start date on thread*

*Re-reads your post*

 

Huh. Well you do seem rather confident, so who am I to disagree?

[Old Coot]

No meed to fix officiating. It's already "fixed".

[st pete gogolak]

I started this thread to make a point, probably not very articulately, that the refs have way to much say so in the outcome of games and given the amount of money now bet on NFL games that can be very dangerous indeed.

 

Can their influence be diminished?  I think it could. Eliminate ticky tack calls on PI, defensive holding and illegal contact, reduce the severity of certain penalties, be more consistent as to what offensive holding is, etc.  Not sure there is the will to get this done as long as the money keeps rolling in.

[Figster]

5 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

If you want to see how that kind of system works.........follow the NBA.

 

The players run that league and they lobbied hard to have power over officiating by being able to review just about everything.    It's slowed the game down and that power has turned the players into outright intolerable assh*les to the officials all game.........which in turn then leads to technical fouls and ejections..........which creates drama and alters scores/outcomes........which ultimately has the same effect as bad officiating.    

 

Adding missed or wrong calls to the red flag challenge brings about a more uniform way of officiating throughout the league. Officials want to cast a blind eye on penalties they get challenged. Bad officiating becomes easy to identify and removed If deemed necessary. It doesn't slow down the game because the rules to its usage remains the same. Players, coaches, fans. We all deserve fair officiating.

Edited December 2, 2023 by Figster