Broncos @ Bills - Postgame Thread

[CincyBillsFan]

6 minutes ago, Mango said:

To his credit, the D has done enough in a few of the loses. He himself needs to “trust the process”. Firings only mean this thing gets torn apart mid season only to try and be jump started again next year. 
 

I will say the same defensive call in a row plus the 12 men, all in succession, is the first time I was like “OK tear it down”. So much so I’d be open to firing McD and giving Dorsey a go as interim. 
 

Let’s not forget that a few weeks ago McD said he’d be MORE involved with the offense and they’ve done nothing but grip tighter. KD was part of some offensive outputs. I’m not advocating for it, but if it happened I could get myself up for it. 

This season is done and trust me when I say that coming from an incurable optimist. 

 

Tearing this thing apart mid season will help us by likely getting us into a better draft position.  And I have to say that while it goes against the mood on the board with respect to Dorsey, your idea of firing McD and hiring Dorsey as interim HC is appealing.  I'm not convinced Dorsey is the problem as McD has indicated that he is more involved in the offense and the tactical problems on game day have always rested with him.

 

And if we make a total switch to an offensive minded head coach & GM, it won't be a jump start as much as going in a new direction. BTW I include Bean here as I assume he agreed or even formulated the approach 5 years ago to focus on the defense at the expense of the offense.  IMO this is the foundation of the Bills problems as it fly's directly in the face of what it appears to take to win in the current NFL.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Scott7975]

1 minute ago, Roundybout said:

Joe something?

 

Webb

[Pokebball]

2 minutes ago, EmotionallyUnstable said:

McD needs to own the blame. He should 100% fall for this…

 

but let’s call a spade a spade: they effed up big time. Players a need to execute. 

Allen most of all. He ain’t going anywhere. The bone headed plays need to stop. It’s terrifying week after week how many give aways they’re coughing up 

If Josh handed the ball off every play tonight, we would probably have won the game. Who's fault is not running the ball more? Coaches need to see that and adjust. They didn't.  We came out on our first possession in the 2nd half and pass, pass, pass, pass (turned the ball over on downs). Diggs dropped a pass. Fourth down was 4th and 1 and we threw the ball. All of this crap builds on individuals. Coaches put their players in positions to succeed (or not to succeed).

 

It's been said numerous times these past three weeks. Coaching staff have lost the locker room. Players don't trust the coaches and their decisions. Of course execution suffers. Of course concentration suffers. And through all of that, the players lost the game tonight because of a coaching error, ending the game. Everyone knows that. The players, the owners, the fans. It got worse!

[RyanC883]

fire McD and have Babich interim HC. 

[loveorhatembillsfan4life]

There is absolutely no rational  reason to keep Mcd after this season.

 

We can find someone to coach D

 

We can find a better Leader

 

We Can find a better Offense

 

We can get Josh back on track.

 

We have seen his ceiling and now we at the very rock bottom.. Even at his best it wasn’t good enough. Same coach while Josh was cooking in Kc decided it would be better off to run the ball for a series..

 

 

 

 

Edited November 14, 2023 by loveorhatembillsfan4life

[Billz4ever]

4 minutes ago, Bruffalo said:

And yet in the second to last possession the offense did what it needed to and put the game squarely on the back of our defensive head coach cap it off.

 

He failed. He failed so bad he actually had to fail twice just to lose.

Do you think I'm making excuses for McD?

 

The D played well in spite of McD.

 

Poor blitzes/play calls on 3rd down killed them.

 

I place that squarely at the feet of McD, not the players.

Edited November 14, 2023 by Billz4ever

[mykidsdad]

We wont do it, but it would be a good time to tear it down. I think something is going onin that locker room. Something bad. Whatever bad apple needs to get tossed along with any other cells that have caught the cancer.

[Beast]

4 minutes ago, IronyAbounds said:

The first 5 have nothing to do with coaching. They are all on the players. I'm pretty sure Dorsey didn't call Josh's sucky throw at the end of the first half, or his missed handoff to Cook, or his other bad throws. Cook didn't fumble at Dorsey's direction, and Davis hasn't been coached not to catch a ball. As bad as the coaches may be (and it is a very mediocre staff), a huge part of the blame falls on the players, particularly on the offense, including Allen, who without a doubt has regressed.

When the same mistakes are being made week in and week out, it most certainly does fall on coaching.

[ALLinALLEN]

Special teams coordinator is a veteran, sean wont touch him

[Bruffalo]

1 minute ago, Billz4ever said:

Do you think I'm making excuses for McD?

 

The D played well in spite of McD.

 

Poor blitzes/play calls on 3rd down killed them.

 

I place that squarely at the feet of McD, not the players.

I misunderstood your post then, thank you for correcting me.

 

 

[Spiderweb]

13 minutes ago, pennstate10 said:

If we step back a second, the loss is really due to the Defense failing once more to hold a lead. 
 

Yeah, if the kicker had missed (as he did) , it’s a lucky bonus for the Bills. 
 

But really, who ever expects the Bills to be lucky?

 

fact of the matter is, Allen and offense left the field with a lead, as they have done with most of the losses over the past 2-3 years. 
 

The defense failed. It’s tough, they have been short handed the past few games. But make no mistake, Bills could and should have won this game with one stop. 

A heavily wound Defense again proved inadequate. Yet who is to blame for the 4th down all out blitz that left Taron Johnson high and dry? It worked on third sown yes. Ever hear of going to the well too often?

[Mango]

1 minute ago, RyanC883 said:

fire McD and have Babich interim HC. 

I am not convinced everything falls on Dorsey. I’d make Babich interim DC. And I think I’d make Dorsey interim HC. Let’s sniff this thing out before the offseason and get some better data. How much blame does where? Judging Dorsey without McD helps eliminate a lot of variables in player evaluations. 

 

I think Dorsey wants to run a high flying offense. I have zero sources to back that up, but it’s what my gut says. 

[GreggTX]

If we start firing coaches, we look like an organization in disarray rather than a popular destination. We shouldn't have let our QB choose our OC. I'm sure they're real chummy, but Dorsey isn't ready to be an OC.

[Niagara Dude]

14 minutes ago, Since1981 said:

D did fine. 
I feel guilty about negativity. 
I guess I haven’t felt that the coaches are literally killing my team. Haven’t experienced that with Bills 

The real problem started after getting their brains kicked in against Cincy in the playoffs and then blaming it on the Hamlin situation and the team had so many things to overcome.  Beane did very little to add talent on the offensive side of the ball when they struggled all last season.  Davis is not a #2 receiver and they have very little after that.  Like who is Harty and what has he done all season both as a receiver and returner?  It an arms race and you need play makers,  you need weapons to score points like we once were able to score 2-3 seasons ago. 

 

Terry needs to speak with football consultants,  because if he continues with McDermott we could be wasting all of Allen's prime years

Edited November 14, 2023 by Niagara Dude

[CincyBillsFan]

1 minute ago, Billz4ever said:

Do you think I'm making excuses for McD?

 

The D played well in spite of McD.

 

Poor blitzes/play calls on 3rd down killed them.

 

I place that firmly at the feet of McD, not the players.

From what I could see McD's blitzes failed every time except once and that was on the sack that knocked Denver out of FG range.  That McD would tempt fate and run that same blitz against Sean Payton who is an offensive wizard and Russel Wilson who has made a career out of beating that blitz is beyond stupid.  It was gross negligence on the part of McD reminiscent of "13 seconds".

 

 

[UKBillFan]

McDermott is a joke. OK, there were execution errors out there where, if one didn’t happen, the Bills would have won. But…

- Who kept Cook off the field for three offensive series after the fumble?

- Who abandoned the run game despite it working more than the pass?

- Why was the offense so low tempo for all drives but three? Oh, guess which ones they scored from

- Who called the ridiculous blitz at 3 and 10 with the Broncos out of FG range?

- Is there no one on the coaching staff who can count to twelve after a timeout?
 

McDermott has to go before the Jets. I’d actually give Dorsey more time, but they need someone on Josh’s wavelength in the locker room. 

[Billz4ever]

1 minute ago, CincyBillsFan said:

From what I could see McD's blitzes failed every time except once and that was on the sack that knocked Denver out of FG range.  That McD would tempt fate and run that same blitz against Sean Payton who is an offensive wizard and Russel Wilson who has made a career out of beating that blitz is beyond stupid.  It was gross negligence on the part of McD reminiscent of "13 seconds".

 

 

As soon as I saw it I said he's going to the well one too many times.

 

When Wilson threw it, I knew it was either going to be caught or draw the flag.

[CincyBillsFan]

2 minutes ago, GreggTX said:

If we start firing coaches, we look like an organization in disarray rather than a popular destination. We shouldn't have let our QB choose our OC. I'm sure they're real chummy, but Dorsey isn't ready to be an OC.

What evidence o you have that Allen chose Dorsey?  From what I can see McD wanted an OC he could control and dictate how he wanted things to go. McD has admitted he has his hands all over the offense in ways he never did with DaBoll.  Sure Allen approved of the choice of Dorsey but that's a very different thing then hiring him.

 

 

[UKBillFan]

Just now, UKBillFan said:

McDermott is a joke. OK, there were execution errors out there where, if one didn’t happen, the Bills would have won. But…

- Who kept Cook off the field for three offensive series after the fumble?

- Who abandoned the run game despite it working more than the pass?

- Why was the offense so low tempo for all drives but three? Oh, guess which ones they scored from

- Who called the ridiculous blitz at 3 and 10 with the Broncos out of FG range?

- Is there no one on the coaching staff who can count to twelve after a timeout?
 

McDermott has to go before the Jets. I’d actually give Dorsey more time, but they need someone on Josh’s wavelength in the locker room. 

I don’t want to edit the original post but every player looks unfocused and on edge coming out onto the field. I wondered what was the issue with preparation but, after McDermott’s ridiculous press conference, I sort of understand. Feels like a fear of failure is creating failure, and that comes from the top.

[CincyBillsFan]

Just now, Billz4ever said:

As soon as I saw it I said he's going to the well one too many times.

 

When Wilson threw it, I knew it was either going to be caught or draw the flag.

And if you and me can see it you can bet that Russel Wilson & Sean Payton had the alt 22 view of it.  It was an incomprehensibly bad call by McD very reminiscent of the brain cramps he got during "13 seconds".

 

[pennstate10]

13 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

Not to mention the average drivestart for the Broncos in the game was their own 41!!  That's inexcusable.  

 

Broncos scored on 6 points off 4 TO's, the Bills scored 7 off of their 1.  Anyone blaming the defense is barking up the wrong tree.  This game should have been a runaway victory for the Bills if they stopped turning the ball over.  They averaged 7.1 yards per play on offense!  Just stop turning it over and they win by 2 scores.

Yeah,I get what you’re saying. 
But,ultimately, championship teams win because they rise to the moment. 
This defense doesn’t. Game after game, we lose at the gun because the defense can’t get a stop. 
It’s a pattern, and it’s  a fact. 

[mannc]

27 minutes ago, Comebackkid said:

it is..its frustrating...the offense repeatedly hangs the Defense out to dry for 3 qtrs.   Offense finally struggles enought to put some points up and then the D falls apart.   its frusting that this has been a frequent theme this year.    The D shouldnt choke and the Offense shouldnt be hanging them out to dry for 3 qtrs.  

There’s certainly a pattern here…

[dgrochester55]

All McDermott can say if "we need to practice more."

 

Yeah, lets practice not putting twelve men on the field.   Should you be on the field during the field goal block.  No?  Great! practice over!

 

What a joke.  This team goes nowhere until we clean house up top.

[transplantbillsfan]

Players were culpable for this loss. McDermott shouldn't be throwing anyone under the bus in his PC, but Allen was 100% responsible for 2 turnovers, Gabe Davis was 100% responsible for 1 turnover and James Cook was 100% responsible for 1 turnover.

 

I guess I take the above back... Dorsey holds some responsibility for Allen’s 2nd interception. That's 3 games in a row that play has resulted in an interception. Predictable much?

 

Regardless, I would also say it's on Bernard (he was the one in the back for the FG, right) to count the men on the line to make sure there weren't 12.

 

But aside from that last missed then made field goal, the Bills had no business really even being in this game with all those turnovers on offense and crazy lopsided field position battle we lost.

[Success]

The Bills are part of my karma in life.

 

I don't know what it is - but I did something pretty bad in a previous life.  

 

There is no other way to explain this.  We have more "losses with names" than any team in any sport.

 

[pennstate10]

21 minutes ago, Billz4ever said:

The offense turned the ball over 4 times.

 

The defense was the only reason we were in this game at all.

Yup, that’s true. 
But at the end, they couldn’t seal the deal. 
That’s a pattern. 

[transplantbillsfan]

13 minutes ago, Pokebball said:

If Josh handed the ball off every play tonight, we would probably have won the game. Who's fault is not running the ball more? Coaches need to see that and adjust. They didn't.  We came out on our first possession in the 2nd half and pass, pass, pass, pass (turned the ball over on downs). Diggs dropped a pass. Fourth down was 4th and 1 and we threw the ball. All of this crap builds on individuals. Coaches put their players in positions to succeed (or not to succeed).

 

It's been said numerous times these past three weeks. Coaching staff have lost the locker room. Players don't trust the coaches and their decisions. Of course execution suffers. Of course concentration suffers. And through all of that, the players lost the game tonight because of a coaching error, ending the game. Everyone knows that. The players, the owners, the fans. It got worse!

 

You sure? Cook couldn't hold onto the football 

[Big Turk]

3 minutes ago, pennstate10 said:

Yeah,I get what you’re saying. 
But,ultimately, championship teams win because they rise to the moment. 
This defense doesn’t. Game after game, we lose at the gun because the defense can’t get a stop. 
It’s a pattern, and it’s  a fact. 

 

When you are trying to rely on a defense down 5 starters including 2 all-pro's and likely the most important player on the D(DaQuan) and your D has kept you in there the entire game, it's kind of ridiculous to put anything on them.  They were the only reason this game wasn't a blowout in favor of the Broncos.  

 

The Bills offense needs to stop handing the ball to the other team every game and punting 5 straight possessions.

 

The whole point is you shouldn't be putting this defense in this position AT ALL in these type of games to begin with.  Start doing your job on offense properly.

Edited November 14, 2023 by Big Turk

[Nihilarian]

Mistakes are killing this team.

 

Josh Allen has turned into Sam Darnold...Ken Dorsey doesn't seem to be the answer on offense. 

 

All these losing teams playing Buffalo it's like their Super Bowl as they have watched the Bills in the playoffs the last few years and against all these teams the Bills no longer get overlooked. They study Buffalo hard and are overjoyed to beat them. 

 

 

 

[Doc Brown]

8 minutes ago, GreggTX said:

If we start firing coaches, we look like an organization in disarray rather than a popular destination. We shouldn't have let our QB choose our OC. I'm sure they're real chummy, but Dorsey isn't ready to be an OC.

Dorsey had interviewed for OC before so he wasn't just some guy Josh picked.  Tonight wasn't on Dorsey though.  Four turnovers, crucial drops, a bad game by Allen, and horrible special teams play did them in.

[DCBongo]

I am not done with McD and Beane just yet.  They are a package deal and just got extensions.  Finding a good GM is tough and there are worse coaches.  Besides Marv is to old.

I'd say he is on a short leash for next year.  He will need to get a new offensive coordinator and hire a defensive coordinator.  I get it, the defense has been diminished by injury.  Davis isn't the #2 they thought he would be. 

I am not carrying water for the team, it's just how I see it 

On the "bright" side, there is no where to go but up.

[CincyBillsFan]

2 minutes ago, pennstate10 said:

Yeah,I get what you’re saying. 
But,ultimately, championship teams win because they rise to the moment. 
This defense doesn’t. Game after game, we lose at the gun because the defense can’t get a stop. 
It’s a pattern, and it’s  a fact. 

Bingo.  This is the 2nd game this season where the O, in spite of struggling for long periods of time, handed the D a lead with under 2 minutes left and the D could not close out the game. And the 2 offenses that drove down to field to beat the Bills in these games were not very good. They certainly weren't the 49's or Chiefs.

 

 

[OZBILLS]

1 minute ago, DCBongo said:

I am not done with McD and Beane just yet.  They are a package deal and just got extensions.  Finding a good GM is tough and there are worse coaches.  Besides Marv is to old.

I'd say he is on a short leash for next year.  He will need to get a new offensive coordinator and hire a defensive coordinator.  I get it, the defense has been diminished by injury.  Davis isn't the #2 they thought he would be. 

I am not carrying water for the team, it's just how I see it 

On the "bright" side, there is no where to go but up.

 

Hi Sean, How are you tonight?

 

 

[UKBillFan]

4 minutes ago, DCBongo said:

I am not done with McD and Beane just yet.  They are a package deal and just got extensions.  Finding a good GM is tough and there are worse coaches.  Besides Marv is to old.

I'd say he is on a short leash for next year.  He will need to get a new offensive coordinator and hire a defensive coordinator.  I get it, the defense has been diminished by injury.  Davis isn't the #2 they thought he would be. 

I am not carrying water for the team, it's just how I see it 

On the "bright" side, there is no where to go but up.

I’d keep Beane - I think he is a decent GM. Both him and McDermott have a direct line to Pegula can axe the latter without involving the former. And that’s what he should do.

Edited November 14, 2023 by UKBillFan
Have, not gave

[CincyBillsFan]

5 minutes ago, pennstate10 said:

Yup, that’s true. 
But at the end, they couldn’t seal the deal. 
That’s a pattern. 

And it's a pattern that has been true over the last few years.

 

[RiotAct]

6 minutes ago, Success said:

The Bills are part of my karma in life.

 

I don't know what it is - but I did something pretty bad in a previous life.  

 

There is no other way to explain this.  We have more "losses with names" than any team in any sport.

 

Wide Right

Music City Miracle

Just Give it To ‘Em

13 Seconds

12 Men

 

what am I missing?

[OZBILLS]

1 minute ago, UKBillFan said:

I’d keep Beane - I think he is a decent GM. Both him and McDermott gave a direct line to Pegula can axe the latter without involving the former. And that’s what he should do.

Bean is too narrow. Goes back to the Carolina well too often. It's running dry now and we're struggling.

He has to go

[DuckyBoys]

Just now, RiotAct said:

Wide Right

Music City Miracle

Just Give it To ‘Em

13 Seconds

12 Men

 

what am I missing?

hail murray

josh slip and fall

Leodis fumbles twice back to back Romo 5 int game

[RiotAct]

2 minutes ago, DCBongo said:

I am not done with McD and Beane just yet.  They are a package deal and just got extensions.  Finding a good GM is tough and there are worse coaches.  Besides Marv is to old.

I'd say he is on a short leash for next year.  He will need to get a new offensive coordinator and hire a defensive coordinator.  I get it, the defense has been diminished by injury.  Davis isn't the #2 they thought he would be. 

I am not carrying water for the team, it's just how I see it 

On the "bright" side, there is no where to go but up.

guys, we’ve got a live one!

[Success]

Just now, RiotAct said:

Wide Right

Music City Miracle

Just Give it To ‘Em

13 Seconds

12 Men

 

what am I missing?

 

A lot of fans remember the "Dallas Monday NIght" game.   The Cincy playoff game is kind of the "snow game."