Let's talk about that Hail Mary

[LABILLBACKER]

First let me say there's no way that game shouldn't have ended 31-10.  McDorsey got super conservative and allowed TB to creep back.  No jugular at all.  We've seen poor Hail Mary defense by us before.  The pass rush allowed Baker to heave it.  And once that ball is in the air, anything can happen.  Thank God it hit the ground before Godwin could see it.

 

We're seeing the same mistakes over and over.  Ridiculous late game TO's that benefit the opposing team. Undisciplined stupid penalties all game which is 100% reflection of your coach(s).  You McD fanboys can follow him till the bitter end.  But our record since 2020 is much more a testament to Josh's athleticism that any brilliant game scheming from McD.

[LABILLBACKER]

2 hours ago, Aussie Joe said:

Josh’s interception was a killer too…

 

It’s not just on Dorsey 

That play call on the interception was bad. You have your entire OL pulling left and you expect Josh to beat the one guy blitzing on the right?  He blew up that play before Josh made the bad decision to still throw it.  Keep one dame OLineman or TE on the right to protect or at least chip the guy.  Hated that call.

[ChrisWatson#21]

Why does McDermott rush four constantly in these situations?  You rush only two and drop nine or you bring the house so the WR’s don’t have enough time to sprint to the endzone.  Hail Murray, Chargers game, Colts playoff game, 13 seconds and now this.  How many more times does it need to happen until he realizes he has it all wrong?  

[Aussie Joe]

Just now, LABILLBACKER said:

That play call on the interception was bad. You have your entire OL pulling left and you expect Josh to beat the one guy blitzing on the right?  He blew up that play before Josh made the bad decision to still throw it.  Keep one dame OLineman or TE on the right to protect or at least chip the guy.  Hated that call.

Hate the call… but just throw it away 

[HomeskillitMoorman]

5 minutes ago, ChrisWatson#21 said:

Why does McDermott rush four constantly in these situations?  You rush only two and drop nine or you bring the house so the WR’s don’t have enough time to sprint to the endzone.  Hail Murray, Chargers game, Colts playoff game, 13 seconds and now this.  How many more times does it need to happen until he realizes he has it all wrong?  

Right. It’s a microcosm of how he doesn’t do anything to improve himself. 

[PromoTheRobot]

2 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Agree on everything, except the blatant PI. That happens on every Hail Mary, and it goes both ways. Refs know the Offense AND Defense are both jockeying for position. So very very unlikely they ever make that call. You simply arent going to avoid the contact on Hail Marys and luckily that is already understood.

 

Did everyone forget the "just give it to em" Pats game November 29, 1998? A PI flag on a Hail Mary is what happened. 

 

 

[ngbills]

41 minutes ago, Bob Jones said:

So it would be 5 rushers vs 5 O linemen, with 1 of those rushers being a DB? What makes you think that a DB is a sure thing to beat an O lineman? I like the rush 2 and drop back 9 scheme much better.

You can’t block multiple guys coming around the edge. There is no rb help on a Hail Mary or safety valve hot route. 

[JakeFrommStateFarm]

Fortunately there was no pass interference because all the Bills players fell down in the end zone

 

[DeltaDigital]

8 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Did everyone forget the "just give it to em" Pats game November 29, 1998? A PI flag on a Hail Mary is what happened. 

 

 

Holy christ, what a fraud. 

[Process]

13 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

That play call on the interception was bad. You have your entire OL pulling left and you expect Josh to beat the one guy blitzing on the right?  He blew up that play before Josh made the bad decision to still throw it.  Keep one dame OLineman or TE on the right to protect or at least chip the guy.  Hated that call.

Maybe Josh should have identified the Blitzer and checked out of that play? We have no way of knowing. 

 

We do know that Josh shouldn't have thrown that ball.

[LABILLBACKER]

12 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said:

Hate the call… but just throw it away 

No doubt, Josh was already out of the pocket.  He definitely should have. He was lucky he wasn't sacked. Some of these play structures are so bad. At least the hurry up 11P helped tremendously last night. And Josh returned to running. 

[Aussie Joe]

2 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

No doubt, Josh was already out of the pocket.  He definitely should have. He was lucky he wasn't sacked. Some of these play structures are so bad. At least the hurry up 11P helped tremendously last night. And Josh returned to running. 

It’s one play on Josh … and I acknowledge that he played pretty well last night otherwise…

 

But it just annoys me because it just let them hang around …

 

 

[ExiledInIllinois]

4 minutes ago, JakeFrommStateFarm said:

Fortunately there was no pass interference because all the Bills players fell down in the end zone

 

Poyer was shoved by Mike Evans. Pretty clear & blatant. 

[HappyDays]

39 minutes ago, Wraith said:

Donte Stallworth (former NFL receiver, current analyst) says the Bills played the hail mary "perfectly." Here a few snippets from his thread on Twitter.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah this is a case of people not understanding the play. We played the whole thing exactly right and the Bucs were nowhere close to coming down with it. To be fair Al Michaels is totally clueless and his replay analysis of that play is really what's driving this entire discussion. How do you announce football games for as long as he has and still not understand the player responsibilities on hail marys?

[RiotAct]

2 hours ago, Process said:

 

two thoughts:

 

1.) Taron shoves Poyer to the ground, consciously and purposely too.  Reasoning for this?

 

2.) Lots of empty seats… did people leaving during that 7-minute scoring drive by the Bucs or something? (work/school in the morning… haha)

[Big Turk]

Apparently The Bills D played it terribly according to most posters, but Donte Stallworth, you know, an NFL WR who has been involved in them and knows the assignments very well says the Bills D deserves credit for "executing the defense of the Hail Mary perfectly". But what does he know? Carry on.

 

 

 

 

6 minutes ago, RiotAct said:

two thoughts:

 

1.) Taron shoves Poyer to the ground, consciously and purposely too.  Reasoning for this?

 

2.) Lots of empty seats… did people leaving during that 7-minute scoring drive by the Bucs or something? (work/school in the morning… haha)

 

1) No he doesn't, if you watch the reverse angle you clearly see it was Mike Evans who shoves Poyer down.  

Edited October 27, 2023 by Big Turk

[K-9]

The Hail Mary has it’s place, but I’d like to see some Our Fathers thrown in from time to time.

[Seventeen]

2 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

Why are we rushing 4 guys in these situations is absurd to me.  
 

Put 9 guys back there.  Rush 2.  Should have been doing that from play 1 of the Bucs last possession.  

 

This - put Rousseau in the end zone.

 

 

[Big Turk]

4 minutes ago, K-9 said:

The Hail Mary has it’s place, but I’d like to see some Our Fathers thrown in from time to time.

 

What about the Ave Maria?

[Norcalbillsfan]

2 hours ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

Godwin was lost that whole play and was at no point a  threat to catch that pass.  This is all getting massively overblown.  Mike evans straight up knocked over 1/3rd of our team with a blatant opi which definitely didn’t help things.. if we got called for dpi on that play and they got away with that I never would’ve watched football again 🤣 

I dont know man, I saw it different. Godwin has excellent hands and is a good wr. If he turns around half a second sooner I'd bet he catches that ball. It almost hit him.

 

But I agree there was opi and dpi all over the place I'm glad the refs finally let it just play out.

[LABILLBACKER]

25 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said:

It’s one play on Josh … and I acknowledge that he played pretty well last night otherwise…

 

But it just annoys me because it just let them hang around …

 

 

He's still working on cleaning up the brain farts. That decision cost them 7 free points.

[Bob Jones]

1 hour ago, ngbills said:

You can’t block multiple guys coming around the edge. There is no rb help on a Hail Mary or safety valve hot route. 

If you send too many people on one side, obviously, the quarterback will roll out to the other side, and the O line will form a wall to protect him. A blitz normally allows one player to come unabated to the QB, in a “surprise” situation, but in last night’s game, with the Bills 4 down lineman rushing, wherever that DB lined up, the extra O lineman would’ve saw that, and picked them up easily. 350 vs 200 lbs usually wins. 😉

2 hours ago, ngbills said:

What is the downside of having all 4 of your rushers on the edge as well on a hail mary? There is no need to defend the middle so rush only the edge and see if the tackles can each block two guys. 

The QB will immediately roll to the other side?

[Dopey]

2 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Im normally a glass half full guy, but this just furthers my concerns.  Because that is the conundrum, we are barely beating or losing to the only weak teams remaining on our schedule outside Denver and Pats again (who we already lost to).  
 

We should have won all 4 games by double digits, yet we still lost 2 and then barley held on and got lucky on last play of both wins.

I hear ya. I am waiting on this "tough" stretch coming up. I think we do better than some expect here. 

[RiotAct]

55 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

Apparently The Bills D played it terribly according to most posters, but Donte Stallworth, you know, an NFL WR who has been involved in them and knows the assignments very well says the Bills D deserves credit for "executing the defense of the Hail Mary perfectly". But what does he know? Carry on.

 

 

 

 

 

1) No he doesn't, if you watch the reverse angle you clearly see it was Mike Evans who shoves Poyer down.  

ah my bad!  It looked like Johnson from the front angle.

[stinky finger]

4 hours ago, Success said:

Sorry if there was another thread on this - I didn't see anything.

 

But that was alarming.  I don't think I have seen a defense that had such poor positioning and awareness on a final heave.  It looked like most of the defenders had their backs to the ball - maybe all of them.  Some of them were committing pretty blatant PI.  They looked lost and confused.

 

And obviously, if Godwin just turns around a half second sooner, he basically makes an easy catch for the win.

 

That's extremely poor situational coaching. It really looked like they had never practiced defending a Hail Mary.

 

Poor situational coaching.

 

A McDermott staple. 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

1 hour ago, Norcalbillsfan said:

I dont know man, I saw it different. Godwin has excellent hands and is a good wr. If he turns around half a second sooner I'd bet he catches that ball. It almost hit him.

 

But I agree there was opi and dpi all over the place I'm glad the refs finally let it just play out.

That didn’t touch on what I was saying at all though really.  there’s no question he’s a capable receiver…he was just either out of position or everyone lost the football because baker threw it 60 yards deep but 100 yards up in the air since it was just at the edge of his range lol.  out of every offensive player on the field it looked like only Mike evans had any idea where the football was.  

so the ‘if he turned around’ to try to explain how close the play was makes no sense to me.  If he wasn’t clearly completely lost spinning around in the end zone maybe he gets more defensive attention lol

that play was not even remotely close to being successful…he would not catch that ball in 1000 tries.  It would’ve had to perfectly land in his randomly outstretched arms with him having no idea it was coming 😂

Edited October 27, 2023 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

31 minutes ago, stinky finger said:

Poor situational coaching.

 

A McDermott staple. 

I am just baffled by this…Godwin was so clearly lost on that play for its entire duration to the point where he was facing the complete wrong direction when the ball was going by him and we’re trying to make it sound like we dodged a bullet? 😂. 
 

why is ‘if he turned around’ even a thing lol who the heck is facing the wrong direction at the critical juncture of a Hail Mary.  Obviously that effects how the defense is playing him too 

[BobbyC81]

6 hours ago, Zag20 said:

Also shouldn’t Davis and maybe Kincaid be in in that play?

No, you could assume it was going to be a Hail Mary but what if they tried scoring with laterals?  You wouldn’t want those guys out there.

[stinky finger]

1 hour ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

I am just baffled by this…Godwin was so clearly lost on that play for its entire duration to the point where he was facing the complete wrong direction when the ball was going by him and we’re trying to make it sound like we dodged a bullet? 😂. 
 

why is ‘if he turned around’ even a thing lol who the heck is facing the wrong direction at the critical juncture of a Hail Mary.  Obviously that effects how the defense is playing him too 

 

Are you saying we haven't had issues at ends of games? Mismanagement of TO's? Lack of killer instinct?

 

Too often we find ourselves there. The fact that Tampa had any opportunity to win that game is beyond me. 

[BurpleBull]

I don't know if I'm alone with this, but when TB walked onto the field with that little bit of time on the clock left I said to myself, "I don't like this (x3)".

 

There was just this feeling that something stupid was going to happen and I was bracing myself so that the bewilderment to follow wouldn't catch me off-guard.

 

Crazy how close something stupid came to happening.

[Billever76]

6 hours ago, Aussie Joe said:

Josh’s interception was a killer too…

 

It’s not just on Dorsey 

Lmao dorsey calls a naked bootleg pass on the play right after allen came out of the blue tent....horrible play call at that point

[Aussie Joe]

35 minutes ago, Billever76 said:

Lmao dorsey calls a naked bootleg pass on the play right after allen came out of the blue tent....horrible play call at that point

Just throw it away or take the tackle 

Edited October 27, 2023 by Aussie Joe

[BillsUberAlles]

5 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

That play call on the interception was bad. You have your entire OL pulling left and you expect Josh to beat the one guy blitzing on the right?  He blew up that play before Josh made the bad decision to still throw it.  Keep one dame OLineman or TE on the right to protect or at least chip the guy.  Hated that call.

 

1) It was on Allen. He flattened his fake instead of dropping vertically after it which would have prevented him turning around and having a player on top of him even if he was a free runner. He then could have turfed it or had a better chance of making him miss or whatever.

 

2) The motion from a 2x2 set to a 3x1 set is what caused the free runner. Winfield shifted down to the box when they motioned Kincaid across.

 

Interesting points from the post with the video by JT O'Sullivan by @Big Turk

 

 

What's becoming more and more apparent as I spend more time on this board is that the majority of posters have no earthly idea of what is going on and make a lot of wrong assumptions about things which then less to wrong ideas and conclusions.

 

Edited October 28, 2023 by BillsUberAlles

[jkeerie]

8 hours ago, Success said:

Sorry if there was another thread on this - I didn't see anything.

 

But that was alarming.  I don't think I have seen a defense that had such poor positioning and awareness on a final heave.  It looked like most of the defenders had their backs to the ball - maybe all of them.  Some of them were committing pretty blatant PI.  They looked lost and confused.

 

And obviously, if Godwin just turns around a half second sooner, he basically makes an easy catch for the win.

 

That's extremely poor situational coaching. It really looked like they had never practiced defending a Hail Mary.

 

In Taron Johnson's post game locker room interview he was asked about the defense on that play.  He said none of them were looking for the ball.  They were looking to block out the TB receivers so they could not make a play on the ball.  Godwin said he was "late to the party" and was not in position because he got jammed at the line of scrimmage.  The Bills did not allow him a free release.  So there obviously was a plan...and it worked whether we liked the way it looked or not.  And as Josh said the offense should not have put the defense in that position.  They need to "close out games on their terms."

[Eastport bills]

The Bills thoroughly mugged the receivers and the no-call saved our collective asses. It’s one thing for the Bucs not to look up for the football, but our dbs and safeties were not remotely near the ball.How are we coaching these players? I love Taron Johnson but he fouls receivers with no hesitation at crucial times. Sean needs to read these guys the riot act or other teams will start exposing this weakness.

[BillsUberAlles]

33 minutes ago, Eastport bills said:

The Bills thoroughly mugged the receivers and the no-call saved our collective asses. It’s one thing for the Bucs not to look up for the football, but our dbs and safeties were not remotely near the ball.How are we coaching these players? I love Taron Johnson but he fouls receivers with no hesitation at crucial times. Sean needs to read these guys the riot act or other teams will start exposing this weakness.

 

It was equally a no call on Mike Evans tossing Poyer to the ground. Give it a rest with this bull crap.

[Low Positive]

1 minute ago, BillsUberAlles said:

 

It was equally a no call on Mike Evans tossing Poyer to the ground. Give it a rest with this bull crap.

They don’t usually call PI on hail Mary passes because it is usually happening both ways. That is, of course, unless Tom Brady is the QB throwing the ball.

[BillsUberAlles]

Just now, FrenchConnection said:

They don’t usually call PI on hail Mary passes because it is usually happening both ways. That is, of course, unless Tom Brady is the QB throwing the ball.

 

Exactly...people honestly act like they've never watched any football games before last night.

[Eastport bills]

16 minutes ago, BillsUberAlles said:

 

It was equally a no call on Mike Evans tossing Poyer to the ground. Give it a rest with this bull crap.

 

18 minutes ago, BillsUberAlles said:

 

It was equally a no call on Mike Evans tossing Poyer to the ground. Give it a rest with this bull crap.

 

14 minutes ago, BillsUberAlles said:

 

Exactly...people honestly act like they've never watched any football games before last night.

 

 

19 minutes ago, BillsUberAlles said:

 

It was equally a no call on Mike Evans tossing Poyer to the ground. Give it a rest with this bull crap.

Who cares what Evans did, our team was unaware of the flight of the ball. The defending team is supposed to surround the ball and bat it down. That game was dominated by the Bills and with last two drives it could have been an L. If Sean is going to leave our fate to his prevent defense, coach these guys to defend the desperation heaves at the end of the game. 

[BillsUberAlles]

8 hours ago, Eastport bills said:

 

 

 

 

Who cares what Evans did, our team was unaware of the flight of the ball. The defending team is supposed to surround the ball and bat it down. That game was dominated by the Bills and with last two drives it could have been an L. If Sean is going to leave our fate to his prevent defense, coach these guys to defend the desperation heaves at the end of the game. 

 

Funny that Donte Stallworth, an NFL receiver who knows a thing or two about Hail Mary plays credits the Bills for executing perfect Hail Mary defense on the play.

 

But clowns on an Internet board know better I suppose.

Edited October 28, 2023 by BillsUberAlles