Let's talk about that Hail Mary

[bobobonators]

1 minute ago, Dopey said:

Glass half full here. Let's acknowledge the good too. Hardy ran a punt return to their 25-30 yd line and we scored a TD not too long after. We can also make a case that we could be 4-0. Lost to the Pats on their last drive. We lost to the Jags by less than a TD after they got to spend 2 weeks in London to get acclimated to the time difference and no jet lag. We could easily be 4-0 in this stretch. JMO.

Great minds buddy 

[Steptide]

I don't know what the statistics say, but I can't remember another team over the years that's had to defend hail Mary's more than the bills under McDermott. The obvious hail Murray, the hail Mary against the Colts in the wild card, the hail Mary vs the Chargers (I believe the week after the hail Murray) and then again last night. I'm sure there's more, those are just what pops in my head 

Edited October 27, 2023 by Steptide

[Aussie Joe]

6 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

Exactly what excuse did I make?  You could do with some reading comprehension.  Maybe try Hooked on Phonics?  Never tried it but I've heard good things about it.

So is the interception on Josh or Dorsey?

 

Why bring up the play call on a dumb throw?

Edited October 27, 2023 by Aussie Joe

[I'm Spartacus]

It should never have come down to the hail mary opportunity. Thanks Jordan Phillips.

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

7 minutes ago, bobobonators said:

you’re focusing too much on the negative. In an alternate take:

1. Evans TD last night was luck with a doink off a helmet right into his hands. 
2. the following 2pt conversion was luck with a tipped ball that happens to land right in the hands of the receiver

3. we literally dropped two pick 6’s yesterday

 

 

As opposed to viewing it as “we should’ve lost this game”, an equally convincing argument can be made that we should’ve won this game 3-38. And no we shouldn’t be 0-4 during this stretch. 

1-1 in the giants and pats stretch seems just right…people sayin we should be 0-2 are being a bit hypocritical.  I do think the win should’ve been against the pats and the lost should’ve been the giants though 
 

They want to correct a call in the giants game but the obviously blown ineligible man downfield penalty has to hold up to make us 0-2?

 

also we got hosed on the jets punt return so things even out as time goes on…we’re about 50/50 on getting helped/hurt by late game penalties which is right where you should be 

Edited October 27, 2023 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[bobobonators]

2 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said:

So is the interception on Josh or Dorsey?

 

 

INT is on Josh. He never saw Winfield on the edge. Even then he should’ve just eaten the sack there or thrown it right at the ground. Instead he basically threw it at Winfield’s helmet. Kincaid was intended receiver and there were 2 players right on him anyway. That play was a complete disaster that should’ve just been a loss of yardage as opposed to an INT. 
 

Crap play. Worse execution. 

[Big Turk]

5 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said:

So is the interception on Josh or Dorsey?

 

 

 

Both.  Why are you having your player run that after having a shoulder injury as the first play out of that?  Allen could have turfed it too but in the end, it was mostly just a nice play by Winfield.  It's OK to give credit to the D sometimes and not always make somebody have to take the blame on offense. They get paid too on that side of the ball.

Edited October 27, 2023 by Big Turk

[Bray Wyatt]

McCourty on GMFB said our dbs did what they were supposed to and played it well

19 minutes ago, Lost said:

 

Cade Otton got absolutely mugged there by Benford and Rapp.  Shoulda been a flag.  

 

Did you see what Evans did to Poyer?? lol

[Big Turk]

25 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

Why are we rushing 4 guys in these situations is absurd to me.  
 

Put 9 guys back there.  Rush 2.  Should have been doing that from play 1 of the Bucs last possession.  

 

Or do what Schwartz did against Carolina and Cam Newton and blitz so he doesn't have time to even throw it deep...Newton got sacked on that play and it ended the game.

[Aussie Joe]

1 minute ago, Big Turk said:

 

Both.  Why are you having your player run that after having a shoulder injury as the first play out of that?  Allen could have turfed it too but in the end, it was mostly just a nice play by Winfield.  It's OK to give credit to the D sometimes and not always make somebody have to take the blame on offense. They get paid too on that side of the ball.

It was a terrible throw … and kept them in it 

4 minutes ago, bobobonators said:

INT is on Josh. He never saw Winfield on the edge. Even then he should’ve just eaten the sack there or thrown it right at the ground. Instead he basically threw it at Winfield’s helmet. Kincaid was intended receiver and there were 2 players right on him anyway. That play was a complete disaster that should’ve just been a loss of yardage as opposed to an INT. 
 

Crap play. Worse execution. 

Yeah … just throw it away FFS… worst possible result 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

Just now, Big Turk said:

 

Or do what Schwartz did against Carolina and Cam Newton and blitz so he doesn't have time to even throw it deep...Newton got sacked on that play and it ended the game.

 

From that distance with that little time remaining i don't hate it.  I'm not going 0 but i think you can rush 5.  Leaves 6 to cover 5 and they likely don't have a play other than everyone get in the end zone. 

[bobobonators]

1 minute ago, Big Turk said:

 

Or do what Schwartz did against Carolina and Cam Newton and blitz so he doesn't have time to even throw it deep...Newton got sacked on that play and it ended the game.

I agree on this I don’t get why more people don’t blitz in this situation or just rush more. You don’t need LB in this kind of play. Have 6 DB in the end zone and rush 5. Heck have 5 DB’s just standing in the end zone and rush 6. Good luck throwing it 55yds when you have less than 3sec 

[ExiledInIllinois]

This is what pisses me off. How can Bucs homers publish this dreck! 

 

Evans would have been called for pushing Poyer down.

 

Then there's this from 2021 that cost Bills home field advantage!

 

I know I posted it a lot here, but not one DPI was called on Bucs when Brady played for them... How can they print this with a straight face!

 

https://sports.yahoo.com/bills-secure-win-uncalled-pass-104504168.html

 

 

Edited October 27, 2023 by ExiledInIllinois

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

1 minute ago, bobobonators said:

I agree on this I don’t get why more people don’t blitz in this situation or just rush more. You don’t need LB in this kind of play. Have 6 DB in the end zone and rush 5. Heck have 5 DB’s just standing in the end zone and rush 6. Good luck throwing it 55yds when you have less than 3sec 

 

Depends on the situation - in that one where its like... throwable?  Yes.  When its 1st and 10 with 5 seconds left I'm not sure I'm even rushing anyone.  

[stuvian]

We were not ready and came very close to a historic embarrassment that would have resulted in torches and pitchforks to fire Clappy.

 

Props to Mayfield for launching it 60 yards in the air. You wonder why TB doesn't air it out more often.

[Since1981]

49 minutes ago, Zag20 said:

 

Also shouldn’t Davis and maybe Kincaid be in in that play?

 

Big boys at WR. Vs dinky DB. It’s almost like our coach didn’t have a clue Hail Mary has to be defended differently. Imagine that?

[Kmart128]

27 minutes ago, Lost said:

 

Cade Otton got absolutely mugged there by Benford and Rapp.  Shoulda been a flag.  

Yeah and Evans completely threw Poyer to the ground... who would have been in position for the INT

Edited October 27, 2023 by Kmart128

[Livinginthepast]

20 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

How about Mike Evans throwing Poyer to the ground and taking out 2 other Bills?  That's cool tho right?

Total offensive PI but do you really expect the incompetent officials of the NFL to be able to see that let alone have the cojones to call the WR for it? No chance!

 

The Hail Mary was run almost perfectly by the Bucs. They protected their QB, threw the ball long enough to the perfect area, created mayhem for the DBs and had a receiver in the area. The Bills by contrast played it the absolutely worst way possible. No pressure on Mayfield, Nobody ball hawking and confusion abounding allowing a receiver to get separation. It would not be so bad if they weren't beaten by the exact same play in Arizona just 3 years ago. Just another example of bone headed coaching.

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, Dopey said:

Glass half full here. Let's acknowledge the good too. Hardy ran a punt return to their 25-30 yd line and we scored a TD not too long after. We can also make a case that we could be 4-0. Lost to the Pats on their last drive. We lost to the Jags by less than a TD after they got to spend 2 weeks in London to get acclimated to the time difference and no jet lag. We could easily be 4-0 in this stretch. JMO.

Im normally a glass half full guy, but this just furthers my concerns.  Because that is the conundrum, we are barely beating or losing to the only weak teams remaining on our schedule outside Denver and Pats again (who we already lost to).  
 

We should have won all 4 games by double digits, yet we still lost 2 and then barley held on and got lucky on last play of both wins.

Edited October 27, 2023 by Alphadawg7

[nedboy7]

The fact that we could have lost that game easily at the end speaks volumes for how bad they played in the second half.  That ball was completely catchable.  it was only luck that won us that game. 

[ngbills]

There is a lot of this or that about this play. My main issue is not one Bill made a play to knock the ball down. That is the priority but they all seemed to be more concerned with covering a guy than locating the ball. 

[Billsatlastin2018]

I don’t trust ‘13 Seconds’- at all, to ever make the correct, end of game decisions. That game should have been long over. But the Clapper’s ridiculous decision to not go on 4th & 2, a buffoon like Face Mask Penalty on Phillips that would have made it 5th & 18- if he simply kept wrestling Mayfield to the turf and his coup de stupid Time Out call, as Mayfield is about to be sacked!

 

On the ridiculously defended and never shoulda happened Hail Mary,this is definitely what I saw:

 

https://youtu.be/AoOzPhE7i3I?si=mBWBNGIZECoBuzR1

 

[Aussie Joe]

Just now, ngbills said:

There is a lot of this or that about this play. My main issue is not one Bill made a play to knock the ball down. That is the priority but they all seemed to be more concerned with covering a guy than locating the ball. 

They probably didn’t know what to do because they haven’t been in this situation before right?

 

 

[May Day 10]

That was probably the most clown shoes "defense" of a hail mary I have ever seen.  We had 3 players on the ground with Hyde off balance and stumbling.  Godwin could have caught the ball cleanly.  Unreal that these things happen to this team when the game is on the line.

[ngbills]

2 minutes ago, May Day 10 said:

That was probably the most clown shoes "defense" of a hail mary I have ever seen.  We had 3 players on the ground with Hyde off balance and stumbling.  Godwin could have caught the ball cleanly.  Unreal that these things happen to this team when the game is on the line.

Not to mention two of our defenders were on Cade Otten outside of the end zone. 

[HomeskillitMoorman]

1 hour ago, ngbills said:

Teams should blitz a DB on hail mary's. The trade of having one less guy vs pressuring the qb to throw sooner works for me. You need a certain amount of time for wr to get downfield so it either forces an early throw, shorter throw, or disrupts the ability to make a clean throw. 

 

I'm in, it works for me in Madden! 

[Bangarang]

Yesterday game should never have come down to a Hail Mary attempt. The offense sputtered in the 2nd half again and the defense couldn’t get stops.

[ngbills]

What is the downside of having all 4 of your rushers on the edge as well on a hail mary? There is no need to defend the middle so rush only the edge and see if the tackles can each block two guys. 

[Saint Doug]

1 hour ago, Zag20 said:

Also shouldn’t Davis and maybe Kincaid be in in that play?

True. Davis would make sure nothing is caught. 

[zow2]

28 minutes ago, ngbills said:

There is a lot of this or that about this play. My main issue is not one Bill made a play to knock the ball down. That is the priority but they all seemed to be more concerned with covering a guy than locating the ball. 

 

That's what Hyde, Taron and especially Poyer said after the game.  They were out there to box out guys and make sure they could not get to the ball.  There was no mention of knocking down or even watching the ball come down.  I mean that's egregious.  If McDermott is teaching that style on hail mary's we can definitely expect the Bills to get a DPI and a walk off opportunity for an opponent of ours down the road.  Because if the refs see Buffalo do that again, there's a very good chance they will flag it.

[BufBills83]

1 hour ago, Big Blitz said:

Why are we rushing 4 guys in these situations is absurd to me.  
 

Put 9 guys back there.  Rush 2.  Should have been doing that from play 1 of the Bucs last possession.  

 

I totally agree with this strategy.  When on defense in a situation like the last drive last night, or 13 seconds against KC, we should rush 1 or 2 guys and drop the rest.  The offense has to throw the ball quickly, so the pash rush isn't going to get there, and since they have to throw quick, you can have more defenders in coverage.  I would say almost go to the point of not rushing anyone, but not sure about that.

[Saint Doug]

Would love the see an arial view of their formation on that last play. Did they not have players line up in the end zone, and if so, why didn’t they see an incoming pass?

 

Nevermind, just saw it. How did our players standing there facing Mayfield not see that ball coming in?

Edited October 27, 2023 by Saint Doug

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 hour ago, Aussie Joe said:

Josh’s interception was a killer too…

 

It’s not just on Dorsey 

 

I mean it was a tipped ball. Wasn't a bad pass or decision.

 

[Aussie Joe]

1 minute ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

 

I mean it was a tipped ball. Wasn't a bad pass or decision.

 

He should have thrown it away…

[Wraith]

13 minutes ago, zow2 said:

 

That's what Hyde, Taron and especially Poyer said after the game.  They were out there to box out guys and make sure they could not get to the ball.  There was no mention of knocking down or even watching the ball come down.  I mean that's egregious.  If McDermott is teaching that style on hail mary's we can definitely expect the Bills to get a DPI and a walk off opportunity for an opponent of ours down the road.  Because if the refs see Buffalo do that again, there's a very good chance they will flag it.

Boxing out is not against the rules.

[Bob Jones]

1 hour ago, ngbills said:

Teams should blitz a DB on hail mary's. The trade of having one less guy vs pressuring the qb to throw sooner works for me. You need a certain amount of time for wr to get downfield so it either forces an early throw, shorter throw, or disrupts the ability to make a clean throw. 

So it would be 5 rushers vs 5 O linemen, with 1 of those rushers being a DB? What makes you think that a DB is a sure thing to beat an O lineman? I like the rush 2 and drop back 9 scheme much better.

[JohninMinn.]

We learned nothing from the Arizona Cardinals debacle.

[Wraith]

Donte Stallworth (former NFL receiver, current analyst) says the Bills played the hail mary "perfectly." Here a few snippets from his thread on Twitter.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 27, 2023 by Wraith

[Jauronimo]

1 hour ago, nedboy7 said:

The fact that we could have lost that game easily at the end speaks volumes for how bad they played in the second half.  That ball was completely catchable.  it was only luck that won us that game. 

Successfully defending the lowest percentage play in the playbook really is luck when you think about it.

2 minutes ago, Wraith said:

Donte Stallworth (former NFL receiver, current analyst) says the Bills played the hail mary "perfectly." Here a few snippets from his thread on Twitter.

 

https://x.com/DonteStallworth/status/1717939385713262925?s=20

 

 

https://x.com/DonteStallworth/status/1717939387609088314?s=20

 

https://x.com/DonteStallworth/status/1717939391308464165?s=20

 

 

 

 

WTF is Taron doing?  He had the best shot at making the catch.

[Wraith]

11 minutes ago, JohninMinn. said:

We learned nothing from the Arizona Cardinals debacle.

I disagree. If anything they overcompensated for the Hail Murray and did the exact opposite. In Arizona, all three defensive backs tried to out jump each other for the ball and Hopkins outjumped them all. None of them played for positioning. This was the exact opposite, every defensive back went for the box out to the point that none of them played the ball. It seemed to be a deliberate strategy.

 

https://youtu.be/8rEOlSzxrhM?si=WW_dXjR6CS9wOCjA&t=41

Edited October 27, 2023 by Wraith