Let's talk about that Hail Mary

[Success]

Sorry if there was another thread on this - I didn't see anything.

 

But that was alarming.  I don't think I have seen a defense that had such poor positioning and awareness on a final heave.  It looked like most of the defenders had their backs to the ball - maybe all of them.  Some of them were committing pretty blatant PI.  They looked lost and confused.

 

And obviously, if Godwin just turns around a half second sooner, he basically makes an easy catch for the win.

 

That's extremely poor situational coaching. It really looked like they had never practiced defending a Hail Mary.

 

[Logic]

Yeah it was bad. It was ugly.

One can only hope it's something they will work on.



 

[Big Turk]

21 minutes ago, Success said:

Sorry if there was another thread on this - I didn't see anything.

 

But that was alarming.  I don't think I have seen a defense that had such poor positioning and awareness on a final heave.  It looked like most of the defenders had their backs to the ball - maybe all of them.  Some of them were committing pretty blatant PI.  They looked lost and confused.

 

And obviously, if Godwin just turns around a half second sooner, he basically makes an easy catch for the win.

 

That's extremely poor situational coaching. It really looked like they had never practiced defending a Hail Mary.

 

 

Evans also committed blatant PI and was the reason why Poyer went flying to the ground and took out 2 other Bills players with him.  Perhaps that is why there was such poor positioning?

[Zag20]

Also shouldn’t Davis and maybe Kincaid be in in that play?

[Process]

 

[Bermuda Triangle]

It’s not like the Bills had previously been in similar situations, and been burned in said situations…

Edited October 27, 2023 by Bermuda Triangle

[Big Turk]

4 minutes ago, Bermuda Triangle said:

It’s not like the Bills had previously been in similar situations, and been burned in said situations…

 

Have also been in more situations where they haven't as well.

 

 

Let's talk about it... la...la-da-da-da-da...da-da-da-da-da-dada-da da

 

Edited October 27, 2023 by Big Turk

[falgobofu]

Why did (what looks to be Taron Johnson) push Poyer down?!?! How are we so inept at defensing this play? It is mind boggling 

 

[Big Turk]

Just now, falgobofu said:

Why did (what looks to be Taron Johnson) push Poyer down?!?! How are we so inept at defensing this play? It is mind boggling 

 

 

He didn't...if you see the reverse angle, you see it was Mike Evans who shoved him down.

[Alphadawg7]

2 things blow my mind about this team...can we return a punt without a penalty and can we defend a freaking hail mary? 

 

If we are honest with ourselves, a case can be made we should be 0-4 in our last 4 games during our weakest part of our schedule if not for some luck on the final play of the Giants and Bucs game.  It is crazy how we put ourselves in these situations, especially in a game we should have won with a blowout but shot ourselves so many times in the foot this game that we allowed this hail mary attempt to even happen in the first place.

Edited October 27, 2023 by Alphadawg7

[DrDawkinstein]

34 minutes ago, Success said:

 Some of them were committing pretty blatant PI. 

 

 

 

Agree on everything, except the blatant PI. That happens on every Hail Mary, and it goes both ways. Refs know the Offense AND Defense are both jockeying for position. So very very unlikely they ever make that call. You simply arent going to avoid the contact on Hail Marys and luckily that is already understood.

[JaCrispy]

13 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

Evans also committed blatant PI and was the reason why Poyer went flying to the ground and took out 2 other Bills players with him.  Perhaps that is why there was such poor positioning?

[poblano]

13 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

Evans also committed blatant PI and was the reason why Poyer went flying to the ground and took out 2 other Bills players with him.  Perhaps that is why there was such poor positioning?

And such a big space in front of Goodwin 

[Franco_92]

13 minutes ago, Process said:

 

It looked bad live, but in this clip I don't see a whole lot of egregious play from the Bills. It's a very low percentage play that didn't work. Any flag you could call on the bills could be canceled by what Evans did

[Aussie Joe]

What about Vons penalty the play before?

 

He was making sure Baker could reach the end zone on the Hail Mary ?…

 

You know … this team is strange … is it bad luck ?  Seems to happen way to often..

[Franco_92]

Just now, Aussie Joe said:

What about Vons penalty the play before?

 

He was making sure Baker could reach the end zone on the Hail Mary ?…

 

You know … this team is strange … is it bad luck ?  Seems to happen way to often..

Von going offside was the worst part of the last drive, AINEC.

[MAJBobby]

14 minutes ago, Process said:

 

Must watch Clip.  Dan breaks down this play VERY WELL

[Success]

14 minutes ago, Process said:

 

 

That was pretty informative.  Makes me feel a little better about it.

 

[Aussie Joe]

3 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

2 things blow my mind about this team...can we return a punt without a penalty and can we defend a freaking hail mary?  

 

Honestly, I had a bad feeling going into that play and we should have had another Billsy loss.  

 

In our last 4 games we are 2-2...but should we be 0-4 if not for mistakes on the other team at end of game?  Well answer is probably yes.  Giants and Daboll did the typical Daboll move, and lets forget about the PI or no PI on final play and just look at the stupidity of the final play call by Daboll.  

 

Only time for one play...so run or pass can be called here.  You are on the 1 yard line.  Your best player on your team is a RB.  Your QB is a backup QB whose best traits are running with the ball and he hasn't played a meaningful game in years.  The Bills are missing their All-Pro LB and best DT, and even before they got hurt were giving up a hefty YPC to the run game.  

 

So what does Daboll do?  The exact opposite of what he should do, which was an issue he had while here too.  Should have just handed it to your best player in Saquan or if you do want to throw it, why not roll TT out so he has the option to run if the pass isn't there?  

 

Then the Bucs game...lets be honest, if Godwin sees the ball we lose.  This was a game we essentially dominated, but terrible decisions by Dorsey over shadow the positive changes the offense saw.  Coming away with 0 points because instead of a sneak on the goalline, Dorsey once again calls a run from shotgun with an ancient RB that loses yards again on 3rd down forcing a 4th and goal situation now too far out to sneak it with Allen.  

 

This time, he doesn't get bailed out with a 4th down TD and this one play would have been the difference in the game had Godwin seen the hail mary and made the catch.  Then there were a few other moments that were head scratching in the 2nd half where we saw our offense get slowed down to just 1 2nd half score and helped create this hail mary opportunity for the Bucs.  

 

So not only was it a poor hail mary defense, it was also a play that should never had mattered in the first place had we not been so stupid to cost ourselves more points in this game.  Honestly this should have been a blow out.  

Josh’s interception was a killer too…

 

It’s not just on Dorsey 

[Big Blitz]

Why are we rushing 4 guys in these situations is absurd to me.  
 

Put 9 guys back there.  Rush 2.  Should have been doing that from play 1 of the Bucs last possession.  

[ngbills]

Teams should blitz a DB on hail mary's. The trade of having one less guy vs pressuring the qb to throw sooner works for me. You need a certain amount of time for wr to get downfield so it either forces an early throw, shorter throw, or disrupts the ability to make a clean throw. 

[Wraith]

3 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Agree on everything, except the blatant PI. That happens on every Hail Mary, and it goes both ways. Refs know the Offense AND Defense are both jockeying for position. So very very unlikely they ever make that call. You simply arent going to avoid the contact on Hail Marys and luckily that is already understood.

Well said and, to be honest, I'm not really seeing much from the Bills that meets the a traditional definition of pass interference. Rapp and Benford boxed in that front receiver but neither one had much actual contact and they have a right to that space just as much as the receiver does.

[Success]

5 minutes ago, Franco_92 said:

It looked bad live, but in this clip I don't see a whole lot of egregious play from the Bills. It's a very low percentage play that didn't work. Any flag you could call on the bills could be canceled by what Evans did

 

Same - live & even w/ the replays yesterday, it looked terrible. But watching the analysis w/ slo mo, it didn't seem like we played it as badly. Especially realizing that Godwin was not supposed to be the target, and that his job was to mop up & catch a deflection if there was one.

 

[Aimee75]

It was unnerving. The fact that Godwin did not catch that ball, or look up from it, was the only thing that kept us from having yet another last minute disaster on defense. I mean what the hell, do we have to go through this every week?

 

The Bills dominated on all sides last night, even special teams, and we came dangerously close to yet another extremely frustrating loss at the end. I am grateful it's a win, but something has to give.

 

 

[Big Turk]

5 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said:

Josh’s interception was a killer too…

 

It’s not just on Dorsey 

 

Fitz was wondering if a guy is coming out of the medical tent with a shoulder injury, why they would be running that as his first play back and he said that would be the last play he would want to run in that situation with a potential shoulder issue.

[Lost]

23 minutes ago, Process said:

 

 

Cade Otton got absolutely mugged there by Benford and Rapp.  Shoulda been a flag.  

[Aimee75]

8 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said:

What about Vons penalty the play before?

 

He was making sure Baker could reach the end zone on the Hail Mary ?…

 

You know … this team is strange … is it bad luck ?  Seems to happen way to often..

It's frustrating, and witnessing the lucky bounces other teams get as well, like the two point conversion that bounced right back in the players hand. Or the other team always recovering their fumble, or something like Baker getting the ball just out in time before a potential safety. I wish we had more lucky bounces.

[zow2]

The Hail Mary was a disgrace.  McDermott needs to get his head out of his a** on that final play and coach it better in practice.  I swear our DB's have no ability to track a deep pass.  At this point put a tall receiver out there like Kincaid...someone who actually knows what to do when a ball is falling from the heavens.  

[Warcodered]

3 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

Fitz was wondering if a guy is coming out of the medical tent with a shoulder injury, why they would be running that as his first play back and he said that would be the last play he would want to run in that situation with a potential shoulder issue.

So you're saying it's the last thing they'll expect-Dorsey apparently.

[Big Turk]

Just now, Lost said:

 

Cade Otton got absolutely mugged there by Benford and Rapp.  Shoulda been a flag.  

 

How about Mike Evans throwing Poyer to the ground and taking out 2 other Bills?  That's cool tho right?

[Lost]

Just now, Big Turk said:

 

How about Mike Evans throwing Poyer to the ground and taking out 2 other Bills?  That's cool tho right?

 

Looked to me that while Evans did get a hand on Poyer it was more a result of Taron Johnson running into him and tripping him.

[Big Turk]

Just now, Lost said:

 

Looked to me that while Evans did get a hand on Poyer it was more a result of Taron Johnson running into him and tripping him.

 

Look at the reverse angle.  It was clearly Evans shoving him with force.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

1 hour ago, Aimee75 said:

It's frustrating, and witnessing the lucky bounces other teams get as well, like the two point conversion that bounced right back in the players hand. Or the other team always recovering their fumble, or something like Baker getting the ball just out in time before a potential safety. I wish we had more lucky bounces.

We've seen this a lot. 

 

The coverage gets loose, we trade yards for time, and we just don't make the plays to seal it - the Giants game the coaches trusted Josh, they made a good call, and Josh to Knox doesn't work and it's a scramble drill the rest of that game. 

 

This game, we pick up one first down, get them to burn all the timeouts, but were ok with giving them the ball back and small miss on the punt and it goes into the endzone instead of being downed inside the 5 again. 

 

Edited October 27, 2023 by Straight Hucklebuck

[Norcalbillsfan]

What scared me is no one played the ball, if Godwin turns around, the bills might miss playoffs.

 

I don't understand, im not a professional athlete but i know a hail mary in the endzone you dont have to cover recievers, it's going to be a jump ball, you play the ball and bat it down.

 

I've always wondered why teams don't designate pre snap, ok tallest DB your playing the jump ball and batting it down, shortest db your only job is putting your arm between the recievers hands and breaking it up. Last night it looked like a monkey humping a football, like no order just school yard hail mary.

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

30 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

Evans also committed blatant PI and was the reason why Poyer went flying to the ground and took out 2 other Bills players with him.  Perhaps that is why there was such poor positioning?

That had a lot to do with it and evans undoubtedly was trying to accomplish just that lol I think some of it was the defenders playing the receivers to time their jumps and Godwin was just out of position so no one took him very seriously too.  Looked like he was getting in position to catch a tipped pass to me and didn’t make it in time which is pretty normal for a Hail Mary but I keep getting downvoted for posting that 😂

 

seeing outcry that the bills weren’t called for dpi has had me giggling all day…that’s pretty typical defense by any team on any Hail Mary attempt.  What evans did though very much is not 

[Aussie Joe]

8 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

Fitz was wondering if a guy is coming out of the medical tent with a shoulder injury, why they would be running that as his first play back and he said that would be the last play he would want to run in that situation with a potential shoulder issue.

I know you want to make excuses … but 

 

if that interception doesn’t happen… likely the game is put to bed before all the last quarter drama…

[Dopey]

17 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

2 things blow my mind about this team...can we return a punt without a penalty and can we defend a freaking hail mary? 

 

If we are honest with ourselves, a case can be made we should be 0-4 in our last 4 games during our weakest part of our schedule if not for some luck on the final play of the Giants and Bucs game.  It is crazy how we put ourselves in these situations, especially in a game we should have won with a blowout but shot ourselves so many times in the foot this game that we allowed this hail mary attempt to even happen in the first place.

Glass half full here. Let's acknowledge the good too. Hardy ran a punt return to their 25-30 yd line and we scored a TD not too long after. We can also make a case that we could be 4-0. Lost to the Pats on their last drive. We lost to the Jags by less than a TD after they got to spend 2 weeks in London to get acclimated to the time difference and no jet lag. We could easily be 4-0 in this stretch. JMO.

[bobobonators]

26 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

2 things blow my mind about this team...can we return a punt without a penalty and can we defend a freaking hail mary? 

 

If we are honest with ourselves, a case can be made we should be 0-4 in our last 4 games during our weakest part of our schedule if not for some luck on the final play of the Giants and Bucs game.  It is crazy how we put ourselves in these situations, especially in a game we should have won with a blowout but shot ourselves so many times in the foot this game that we allowed this hail mary attempt to even happen in the first place.

you’re focusing too much on the negative. In an alternate take:

1. Evans TD last night was luck with a doink off a helmet right into his hands. 
2. the following 2pt conversion was luck with a tipped ball that happens to land right in the hands of the receiver

3. we literally dropped two pick 6’s yesterday

 

 

As opposed to viewing it as “we should’ve lost this game”, an equally convincing argument can be made that we should’ve won this game 10-38. And no we shouldn’t be 0-4 during this stretch. 

Edited October 27, 2023 by bobobonators

[Big Turk]

Just now, Aussie Joe said:

I know you want to make excuses … but 

 

if that interception doesn’t happen… likely the game is put to bed before all the last quarter drama…

 

Exactly what excuse did I make?  You could do with some reading comprehension.  Maybe try Hooked on Phonics?  Never tried it but I've heard good things about it.

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

1 minute ago, Norcalbillsfan said:

What scared me is no one played the ball, if Godwin turns around, the bills might miss playoffs.

 

I don't understand, im not a professional athlete but i know a hail mary in the endzone you dont have to cover recievers, it's going to be a jump ball, you play the ball and bat it down.

 

I've always wondered why teams don't designate pre snap, ok tallest DB your playing the jump ball and batting it down, shortest db your only job is putting your arm between the recievers hands and breaking it up. Last night it looked like a monkey humping a football, like no order just school yard hail mary.

Godwin was lost that whole play and was at no point a  threat to catch that pass.  This is all getting massively overblown.  Mike evans straight up knocked over 1/3rd of our team with a blatant opi which definitely didn’t help things.. if we got called for dpi on that play and they got away with that I never would’ve watched football again 🤣