The Official Fire Ken Dorsey Thread

[BADOLBILZ]

7 hours ago, reddogblitz said:

 

One other thing is Josh can't compete a long pass to save his neck this year.    Seems to overthrow them by 5 yards.

 

Most talented QB in the game.........not the most prepared.    His natural accuracy on deep balls used to be bad..........he worked on it in the offseason after 2020 and and got much better.    He finished 2021 dropping dimes in the bucket to Gabe Davis and has since chosen rest over training the past two offseason and he's regressed in that regard.    Hopefully he's just still in "spring training" arm mode and will find his touch as the season goes on but as @GunnerBill noted he is not making good pass type/trajectory decisions and when he IS putting air under the ball it's not ending up where it should for an elite QB in his prime.

[Realist]

I'm a little late to the party, but I have to agree. Something is wrong with this offense since mid season 2022. 5 straight games with 25 points or less and that's not even against the best defenses in the league. I'd be happy if they made Brady the interim OC starting today. I know there is no chance of that, but there are some major problems with Dorsey right now.

[BuffaloRebound]

Agreed.  Might not be completely fair to Dorsey but something has to be done to salvage season and the offense looks disjointed on way too many possessions.  

[Bruffalo]

I've waffled back and forth on whether it's warranted to actually fire Dorsey, but the difference between our hurry up offense and what we look like when Dorsey has time to sit back and call plays is undeniable.

 

I'm not qualified to say if Dorsey's scheme isn't being executed properly.  I don't know how you can look at our team and say we are playing to our strengths though. 

 

He's got to go at this point, and if nothing changes then McDermott should be on the hot seat.  I think he's a good coach but whatever he's doing isn't working anymore.  

 

 

[dave mcbride]

14 minutes ago, Realist said:

I'm a little late to the party, but I have to agree. Something is wrong with this offense since mid season 2022. 5 straight games with 25 points or less and that's not even against the best defenses in the league. I'd be happy if they made Brady the interim OC starting today. I know there is no chance of that, but there are some major problems with Dorsey right now.

Mike Shula strikes me as a more likely candidate if this were to happen. He has been an OC for 11 seasons and worked as OC while McDermott was the DC in Carolina. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/ShulMi0.htm

[Chandler#81]

16 minutes ago, Bruffalo said:

I've waffled back and forth on whether it's warranted to actually fire Dorsey, but the difference between our hurry up offense and what we look like when Dorsey has time to sit back and call plays is undeniable.

 

I'm not qualified to say if Dorsey's scheme isn't being executed properly.  I don't know how you can look at our team and say we are playing to our strengths though. 

 

He's got to go at this point, and if nothing changes then McDermott should be on the hot seat.  I think he's a good coach but whatever he's doing isn't working anymore.  

 

 

I’m in this camp too. Plus the camp Allen is a bit too interested in outside influences. Remember, he & very long time gf broke up the night before the home playoff game. His disinterest in the game was vivid. Then there’s everything surrounding the Madden cover hype and his boyish good looks with the new shaggy haircut. Just look at our schedule! We’re playing in front of national television audiences nearly every week! The recent team success with him as the staring performer is very intoxicating for the fans of the team. Imagine what it’s doing to him! But this will dramatically change next season. I’m fairly certain network producers are already cringing at their overexposure of him and the Bills. Buffalo vs. Denver on MNF? Perish the thought! We can now start planning Sundays next year, knowing we’ll have at least 12 1:00pm games. The spotlight is already dimming big time! 
I’m fairly confident this, the return of our horribly injured players, saying goodbye to others who’ve performed well but are digressing, a new OC and Josh having real time to reflect on this avalanche of attention with its repercussions, will create a hungry, under the radar team.
 

I’m hopeful anyway.

 

If I’ve said it once, I’ve said it 64 straight years - “JUST WAIT TIL NEXT YEAR!’..

[Bruffalo]

26 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

I’m in this camp too. Plus the camp Allen is a bit too interested in outside influences. Remember, he & very long time gf broke up the night before the home playoff game. His disinterest in the game was vivid. Then there’s everything surrounding the Madden cover hype and his boyish good looks with the new shaggy haircut. Just look at our schedule! We’re playing in front of national television audiences nearly every week! The recent team success with him as the staring performer is very intoxicating for the fans of the team. Imagine what it’s doing to him! But this will dramatically change next season. I’m fairly certain network producers are already cringing at their overexposure of him and the Bills. Buffalo vs. Denver on MNF? Perish the thought! We can now start planning Sundays next year, knowing we’ll have at least 12 1:00pm games. The spotlight is already dimming big time! 
I’m fairly confident this, the return of our horribly injured players, saying goodbye to others who’ve performed well but are digressing, a new OC and Josh having real time to reflect on this avalanche of attention with its repercussions, will create a hungry, under the radar team.
 

I’m hopeful anyway.

 

If I’ve said it once, I’ve said it 64 straight years - “JUST WAIT TIL NEXT YEAR!’..

I don't want to speculate on anyone's personal lives, the players are people with hardships, loss, conflict, sorrow, etc... just like anyone else. While it can effect the on the field product, it doesn't seem fair to punish or reprimand them for it.  

 

I firmly believe that the major difference maker outside of QB (where the true talent pool is miniscule) is the coaching.  Every team is basically filled with JAGs, and it the coach's job to elevate them.  Dorsey is too predictable, and as a result the execution seems to be suffering. That's my take anyways.

 

Bottom line: He should be shown the door today. 

 

 

Edited November 6, 2023 by Bruffalo

[Warcodered]

The way it feels and sounds now it's not complicated anymore, fire Dorsey make Brady the interim play caller with those other offensive minds you brought in to help, or have one of them do it. Either way it makes a change that is necessary it's not like we're changing the offense just who's calling plays Dorsey ain't it in that regard for sure.

[mannc]

Looks like Dorsey is finished…the post-game comments by Allen and especially McDermott point in only one direction.  I think they look at the tape today and make the announcement tomorrow.  It’s not too late to salvage something from this season, but changes have to be made now.

[Steptide]

2 minutes ago, mannc said:

Looks like Dorsey is finished…the post-game comments by Allen and especially McDermott point in only one direction.  I think they look at the tape today and make the announcement tomorrow.  It’s not too late to salvage something from this season, but changes have to be made now.

What were the post game comments? I went to bed as soon as the bleep show ended 

[Warcodered]

2 minutes ago, Steptide said:

What were the post game comments? I went to bed as soon as the bleep show ended 

They didn't seem to sound bad but nobody defended him which is essentially Bills speak for bad.

Edited November 6, 2023 by Warcodered

[Chandler#81]

15 minutes ago, Bruffalo said:

I don't want to speculate on anyone's personal lives, the players are people with hardships, loss, conflict, sorrow, etc... just like anyone else. While it can effect the on the field product, it doesn't seem fair to punish or reprimand them for it.  

 

I firmly believe that the major difference maker outside of QB (where the true talent pool is miniscule) is the coaching.  Every team is basically filled with JAGs, and it the coach's job to elevate them.  Dorsey is too predictable, and as a result the execution seems to be suffering. That's my take anyways.

 

Bottom line: He should be shown the door today. 

 

 

Who’s punishing and reprimanding anyone? Man! You missed my well thought out response completely!🤦‍♂️

[Bruffalo]

5 minutes ago, mannc said:

Looks like Dorsey is finished…the post-game comments by Allen and especially McDermott point in only one direction.  I think they look at the tape today and make the announcement tomorrow.  It’s not too late to salvage something from this season, but changes have to be made now.

[mannc]

Just now, Steptide said:

What were the post game comments? I went to bed as soon as the bleep show ended 

For example, when McDermott was asked why the team abandoned the no-huddle he said he had no idea and “would have to look into that”. He made some other comments that seemed to point the finger at Dorsey…

[Bruffalo]

Just now, Chandler#81 said:

Who’s punishing and reprimanding anyone? Man! You missed my well thought out response completely!🤦‍♂️

I'm not accusing you of doing so, but you do see a lot of talk out there about "Hollywood Josh" and all that. I don't think it's warranted. 

 

 

[Chandler#81]

‘Sorry, Sir, but your ticket has been revoked.”

https://x.com/billsmafiaroc/status/1721385037294166521?s=61

[pigpen65]

Very disappointing the axe didn't fall this morning. There's still time to salvage the season. Whatever, it's coming regardless. I hate just burning a season that could potentially still be saved though 

[Since1981]

3 hours ago, Livinginthepast said:

Dorsey bizarrely calling a reverse flea flicker where Josh threw it to noone.

Dorsey called that play to make it APPEAR he has some creativity or thought.

In the end, you don't call a big arm FLEE FLICKER that close to the end zone!! There's not enough room.

How long does it take to realize that Murry is a good support?  He can pass block for Josh, run the ball, run block for Josh. D doesn't know what kind of play it will be. I like Cook but the aggressive CIN DL needed Murry. Took 3Q to figure this out.

[Nihilarian]

What I see is that Dorsey has no plan B!

 

The Bills build good rushing attacks in the Raiders, Commanders, and Dolphins games, and when the Jags go to an 8-man box he has no answer. 

 

The Buffalo offense showed that with Allen under center while actually running the ball the offense was very effective and explosive.

 

Rush against the Jaguars, 14 rushes for 29 yards and the one rushing TD was by the QB.  No plan B!

 

Rush against the Bengals, 16 rushes for 68 yards and the one TD by the QB...again. QB Josh Allen 8 attempts for 44 yards. This means the Buffalo RBs had 8 attempts all game, 6 for Cook, and 2 for Murray.  Buffalo had 2 turnovers and only had 23:22 min time of possession. 

 

QB Josh Allen should make ANY OC look good. All he needs is help with a decent run game and Dorsey can't seem to do that for him every game. What good is an OC who refuses to even try to find ways to have his RBs... you know..actually run the ball! 

 

Time for a change! 

[babulator]

It's time. We can find someone to take over play calling easy enough, there's no shortage of guys that would throw their hat in the ring to call plays for JA. 

 

Its not like Ken is some mastermind that's been "coaching" up these guys the last few years. He was basically given the keys to the Ferrari and can't figure out how to put it in gear is what it feels like.

 

A new guy could be the breath of fresh air we need, might even bring some experience given the right selection. I honestly think Josh needs a teacher and maybe Ken is not that guy. It would be addition by subtraction minimally, I see nothing but upside.

[Dick_Cheney]

Honestly really disappointed to see that this has not happened today. Even though Dorsey is not solely responsible for how things currently are, it's clear at this point that he is still a very large part of it.

[Bill from NYC]

15 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Best reason to fire Ken Dorsey is to force Allen to learn a new playbook and get his head back into the X's and O's.

How about McDermott? Pegula seems to be fully brainwashed by him and I doubt that it will happen, but do you think that he should be fired after the season?

[The Red King]

If they want even a shot of salvaging the season this needs to happen right now.  We got Denver coming up.  It's the perfect time to do this.

[DapperCam]

This guy needs canned. Bills looked bad and out of sorts most of last year too.

 

What kind of offense requires the QB to play MVP-caliber to win? An offense that is poorly schemed and poorly coached.

[NoHuddleKelly12]

Sal agreed with several callers on his WGR show this morning that everything just looks difficult for this offense, there is no “easy” button to push—he also noted that he thinks the bills have gone too far in reining back Josh from what has always made him so special—even if the reason, extending his career, is good. 

[mjt328]

Being a good NFL coordinator is an art. 

There is a reason they say "getting in rhythm"... because doing it well is almost like playing music.

 

You have to blend the talent/strengths of your offense, and match them up against the weaknesses of your opponent.  You need to be able to adjust quickly to how the defense is playing against you.  And more than just sending a play into the huddle for that down, you need to be setting things up for later in the drive/game/season.

 

Ken Dorsey's playcalling is like a 5-year-old randomly smashing piano keys.  No plan.  No rhyme.  No reason.

BANG!  Deep shot to Diggs.  BANG!  Shotgun hand-off.  BANG!  End around to random player.  BANG!  Uh, how about another deep shot to Diggs.

 

[Nihilarian]

1 hour ago, babulator said:

It's time. We can find someone to take over play calling easy enough, there's no shortage of guys that would throw their hat in the ring to call plays for JA. 

 

Its not like Ken is some mastermind that's been "coaching" up these guys the last few years. He was basically given the keys to the Ferrari and can't figure out how to put it in gear is what it feels like.

 

A new guy could be the breath of fresh air we need, might even bring some experience given the right selection. I honestly think Josh needs a teacher and maybe Ken is not that guy. It would be addition by subtraction minimally, I see nothing but upside.

ROFL, he seriously can't get it into second gear.

 

Really kind of sad that with a roster as talented as this one is with Allen, Diggs, Kincade, Cook, and Davis,  the best O line in years. That this man can't figure out how to work a run game. Should be the easiest part of an offense because those big ole boys love moving others outta the way.  Can't run a screenplay to save a life. No misdirection plays. 

 

Ex-Packer, Seahawk HC Mike Holmgren used to make his players work a run play in practice until they perfected it, over and over and over again until perfect. I guess they do things differently these days. Probably why they can't run simple screenplays that actually work.

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, Bill from NYC said:

How about McDermott? Pegula seems to be fully brainwashed by him and I doubt that it will happen, but do you think that he should be fired after the season?

 

 

If they can find a better HC,  specifically and offensive mind who can push Josh Allen to be more invested.

[dollars 2 donuts]

39 minutes ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

Sal agreed with several callers on his WGR show this morning that everything just looks difficult for this offense, there is no “easy” button to push—he also noted that he thinks the bills have gone too far in reining back Josh from what has always made him so special—even if the reason, extending his career, is good. 

 

 

I need a 2-15 New York Giants team, HUDS.

 

Then I need ownership (just let me dream, OK) to tell the front office and McD that they love you, Beane and McD, but Daboll is back as OC and the only way to get him back was full autonomy...including the first round pick in the draft and that you guys are just going to have to be OK with that.

 

Also, since I'm in dream land all my hair grows back.

 

So lush and wavy.

 

 

 

[Carmel Corn]

I don't expect any changes until the off-season.  That said, does anybody have a feel for how often an OC or DC is replaced mid season in the NFL history?

[Billever76]

7 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

https://theathletic.com/5035485/2023/11/06/buffalo-bills-cincinnati-bengals-ken-dorsey/
 

This piece by Joe B seems to indicate that a change could actually be coming soon. He leans hard into everyone turning against Dorsey, from the players to McDermott. 
 

‘And following the end of the game, there seemed to be a rather interesting shift in how things have sounded.

 

The subtle messages are becoming less so. The frustration and exasperation is growing, and the words used have become tougher. After a great start to the game, in which the Bills averaged 12.1 yards per play on their opening drive, that dynamic offense went missing in action. They gained only 158 yards over their next eight drives, and watched as the Bengals slowly pulled away.

“That can’t happen,” coach Sean McDermott firmly said of the offensive inconsistency. “Against a good football team that’s known for scoring points, and a good quarterback. We’ve got to be able to score points, and we didn’t do it enough.”

McDermott has made some subtle comments like that since the London game. Even after their somewhat of a resurgence in Week 8 against the Buccaneers, McDermott raised some eyebrows when he said that every play “wasn’t an adventure.” But the subtleties are becoming less so.

While the Bills found success going up-tempo the week before, they inexcusably went away from it until it was effectively too late in the game. Why didn’t they use it?

“I don’t have a good answer for you right now,” McDermott said. “I’ve got to look into that.”

There appears to be a lot more looking into things than usual, and it makes you wonder what’s next for the Bills. … It all leads to one point. The Bills might have arrived at where a big change is necessary before the season gets away from them. And with the offense flailing and seemingly out of answers, the time may be now for the Bills to change directions at offensive coordinator.

[Next section is on Allen’s clear postgame exasperation and his subtle digs at the play-calling and game plan.]

 

Why are these pieces of information important? Allen has been the loudest supporter of Dorsey, even in the face of criticism. But if Allen is out of answers and possibly losing confidence in Dorsey himself, then there may be no better reason to make a change than that one. After all, Allen is the straw that stirs the drink.

Under Dorsey, the Bills have been utterly predictable and lacked the creativity that had been a staple with Brian Daboll. … The time for waiting to allow things to iron themselves out, or giving Dorsey enough time to find his footing as an offensive coordinator is quickly coming to a close. He now has 26 games under his belt calling plays, and is seemingly in the same evolutionary spot as he was to begin his career as an offensive coordinator. If there is no growth, and the offense is stagnating, a shake-up may be required.

…

With a Monday night game on the horizon, the Bills have an extra day to prepare should they make a change, and with a plum opponent in a below-average Broncos defense to get them the confidence they need heading into a brutal stretch of games. They have coaches on staff with the experience to take over if need be, but it all comes down to their choice.’

 

Lots of other comments in the piece too.

 

 

 

McDermott loves throwing blame every where but on himself...this entire team is in mcdummys vision and I wouldn't be surprised that he made the call to tone down the high flying offense and convert it into a more conservative ball control offense bc he wants his rotation dline as rested as possible for the 4th quarter when they allow 5 for 5 on 3rd downs and never get the ball back lol

[stlbills13]

I think there's a more than zero chance we are running the offense that our quarterback wants to run

[TheyCallMeAndy]

2 minutes ago, stlbills13 said:

I think there's a more than zero chance we are running the offense that our quarterback wants to run

Wait… so we are running the offense that Josh wants to run? 

[Warcodered]

 

Just a reminder for anyone not paying attention, we started that first drive that resulted in a TD on our own ***** 15 YARDLINE!

[Low Positive]

2 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

 

Just a reminder for anyone not paying attention, we started that first drive that resulted in a TD on our own ***** 15 YARDLINE!

The first drive is scripted?

[Warcodered]

Just now, FrenchConnection said:

The first drive is scripted?

Dorsey said they went away from it after the first drive meaning that's what they were in on the first drive, also it still ***** worked when they went back to it later in the game.

[jlgarsh]

 

Fire them both. Unacceptable 

[Dick_Cheney]

Holy hell the responses from both McD and Dorsey in the aftermath of this game do not inspire any confidence whatsoever. Zero accountability. They genuinely sound like they don't have a freaking clue.

 

This is a really, really bad situation.

[Roundybout]

6 minutes ago, jlgarsh said:

 

Fire them both. Unacceptable 

People on this forum will read this, then look you dead in the eyes and say this is Josh Allen’s fault 

[jlgarsh]

Just now, Roundybout said:

People on this forum will read this, then look you dead in the eyes and say this is Josh Allen’s fault 

Yup. And he's not even close to the problem