McDermott Hot Seat?

[PBF81]

11 minutes ago, Richard Noggin said:

The only name I see as a "potential" upgrade, given that McD's defense was effing HUMMING before being decimated by injuries, and no offensive coordinators (outside of Johnson) seem to be consistently lighting it up and staying ahead of NFL defenses (without deferring to their offensive HC). 

 

When Pegula does make a change, fully expect it to be someone that understands QBs and offense.  

 

Then hire a DC and we'll take whatever the D is.  As long as Allen is our QB here, offense is what is going to determine our lot and fate.  

 

Beane needs to start focusing on the OL.  

 

Brown, Dawkins, and Morse are all only signed through next season.  McGovern for two more seasons.  Waiting until the 2025 Draft is stupid and would indicate a sore lack of planning for the OL.  Morse won't be worth resigning, everyone's talking about Davis getting too much elsewhere, but Dawkins will likely get more than he's worth somewhere else too. 

 

Beane's been asleep at the wheel re: OL since he's been here.  He'd better get on the stick and start planning that immediately after this season.  

 

We should also expect that whenever Pegula makes a change, it'll be both McD and Beane.  

 

 

Edited October 15, 2023 by PBF81

[Richard Noggin]

13 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

When Pegula does make a change, fully expect it to be someone that understands QBs and offense.  

 

Then hire a DC and we'll take whatever the D is.  As long as Allen is our QB here, offense is what is going to determine our lot and fate.  

 

Beane needs to start focusing on the OL.  

 

Brown, Dawkins, and Morse are all only signed through next season.  McGovern for two more seasons.  Waiting until the 2025 Draft is stupid and would indicate a sore lack of planning for the OL.  Morse won't be worth resigning, everyone's talking about Davis getting too much elsewhere, but Dawkins will likely get more than he's worth somewhere else too. 

 

Beane's been asleep at the wheel re: OL since he's been here.  He'd better get on the stick and start planning that immediately after this season.  

 

We should also expect that whenever Pegula makes a change, it'll be both McD and Beane.  

 

 

 

The bolded stuff feels a bit selectively alarmist, as the OL appears to be improved, and there are NO 2023 expiring contracts for starters or their top IOL swing guy. The only real failure was not upgrading RT and/or infusing the OT pipeline with bona fide young potential. Many were worried about Dawkins and his physique, and that hasn't borne out thus far. He's been above average. And while Brown is still the weakest link, the floor has been lifted at least a little. 

 

Many have predicted Morse will either hang em up or get released following this season, based primarily upon his concussion history, and the not underpaid presence of Ryan Bates (he's RICK Bates when he plays OG). Right now, though, I don't know how obvious that is if Morse continues to stay healthy and play at a high level. He's not old. 

 

Both lines are improved. The real long term worry should be directed at the DL, tbh. Besides 2 DEs (Rousseau and Miller) and 1 DT (Oliver), this line will probably undergo significant turnover. For a D that FEATURES an 8 or 9-deep DL rotation, that's noteworthy. Especially now that Beane finally got it right. 

[GunnerBill]

5 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

I gave McD a lot of flowers for the Miami win. Ditto to Dorsey too.

 

I will give positives when someone does their job well. 

 

I'm basically saying I have serious doubts about if McD is the coach to lead this team to a SB. I know many disagree and I'm fine with that.

 

The Peyton to Buffalo point is mute. You seem to be ramming the Peyton point down my throat. Truthfully, I'd have more faith that Peyton could lead the Bills to a SB over McD. The Denver ordeal is really a ridiculous point. Peyton has one ring under his belt and he's an offensive minded coach. I would prefer him calling plays over Dorsey. Him working with Allen. Who knows what the results would be? 

 

I would prefer Ben Johnson as well. 

 

First it is Payton, not Peyton. Second as I have said many times before... McDermott has never lost in the playoffs to a team his Bills were clearly better than. Quarterback wise with a not quite elite Allen he lost to a pre legal issues DeShaun Watson and then since Josh reached elite status he has lost twice to Mahomes and once to Burrow. 

 

Sean Payton with Drew Brees (a first ballot HoFer) lost to Rex Grossman, Matt Hasselbeck, Case Keenum, Kirk Cousins and Jared Goff. 

 

If McDermott was losing in the post season to teams QB'd by those sorts of guys I can only imagine the reaction.

[GunnerBill]

4 hours ago, PBF81 said:

 

When Pegula does make a change, fully expect it to be someone that understands QBs and offense.  

 

Then hire a DC and we'll take whatever the D is.  As long as Allen is our QB here, offense is what is going to determine our lot and fate.  

 

Beane needs to start focusing on the OL.  

 

Brown, Dawkins, and Morse are all only signed through next season.  McGovern for two more seasons.  Waiting until the 2025 Draft is stupid and would indicate a sore lack of planning for the OL.  Morse won't be worth resigning, everyone's talking about Davis getting too much elsewhere, but Dawkins will likely get more than he's worth somewhere else too. 

 

Beane's been asleep at the wheel re: OL since he's been here.  He'd better get on the stick and start planning that immediately after this season.  

 

We should also expect that whenever Pegula makes a change, it'll be both McD and Beane.  

 

 

 

Agree with two points here:

 

1. If a change were to be made it would be HC and GM. They are attached at the hip. I just don't think it is at all close. Terry is still very committed to this regime. 

 

2. They need to be aggressive on the OL again in 2024. McGovern and Torrence have already been a big difference (even though they didn't play well in London) compared to last year and they need at some point to do something at tackle. 

 

The point where I slightly take a different view is on Dion Dawkins. I think if the Bills want to bring him back he'd come back even if that means not testing FA and signing for less than his market value. I think he is totally committed to the team and the community. I only see him moving on if the Bills tell him he is no longer needed. Personally I am fine extending Dion after this season, but extending him wouldn't stop me looking in the draft. And if that means I end up playing Dion RT or even inside then fine (McGovern played some center in college you could shift him there play Dion LG and have a new LT). Essentially if you sign Dion you have a solid baseline at LT. But if you find a potential upgrade you slot Dion in elsewhere.

[newcam2012]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

First it is Payton, not Peyton. Second as I have said many times before... McDermott has never lost in the playoffs to a team his Bills were clearly better than. Quarterback wise with a not quite elite Allen he lost to a pre legal issues DeShaun Watson and then since Josh reached elite status he has lost twice to Mahomes and once to Burrow. 

 

Sean Payton with Drew Brees (a first ballot HoFer) lost to Rex Grossman, Matt Hasselbeck, Case Keenum, Kirk Cousins and Jared Goff. 

 

If McDermott was losing in the post season to teams QB'd by those sorts of guys I can only imagine the reaction.

Well based on your premise then the Bills are fuc$ed because they will be seeing Mahomes and Burrow for a likely years to come. Add in a healthy Tua, improved Lawrence, Herbert, and Lamar. The Bills may be in trouble 

 

Gunner, you can spin it or see it as you wish. We've been here many times. The bottom line is the Bills under the McD regime are 4-5 in the playoffs. That just doesn't cut it in my book when you have Allen as your QB. Add in the numerous times the team blew and I mean blew golden opportunities to win big playoff games. You know them better than I. It's becoming a common theme come playoff time the Bills fall short. 

 

Add in an defensive guru coached defense continues to come up short in big playoff games. You can't put all the blame on Fraizer when McD the head coach rode his back year after year. At some point the head coach must be held accountable. Sadly, this year he already has a built in excuse due to injuries. Groundhog Day again. 

 

Nobody knows the future and if McD can lead this team to a SB appearance. It's certainly possible. I'm not naive to think otherwise. However, I've seen year after year of McD falling short. More specifically, I saw him completely give KC a playoff victory. I saw his team unprepared and out coached vs Cincinnati. Facts are facts and excuses are excuses. They certainly get intertwined. 

 

I'm not sure why Bills fans have faith McD is the guy who can lead this team to a SB? Evidence is overwhelming that he is not. Here we go with the Andy Reid analogy. Excuse after excuse continue to roll off so many fans tongues. The high character, Christian, hard working, and blue collar image of the coach seems obscure people's vision. 

 

Let's cut the cord and move in a different direction. The team needs change, needs offensive creativity, needs a spark, needs ingenuity. The clapping, good guy image, and SB champs in September have run it's course. 

 

The Bills are a 3-2 team as we sit five weeks into the season. They are in second place in division. Who expected this? They certainly don't look invincible or world beaters. The literally have beat one playoff caliber team. I just don't see a realistic path where this team represents the AFC. 

 

I know this will be meant with great resistance and perhaps anger. I get that. My intention is not to troll or be the center of attention. The sole purpose is to give my opinion and hopefully open up some eyes to the various changes that could improve the team. 

 

 

 

 

[GunnerBill]

2 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

Well based on your premise then the Bills are fuc$ed because they will be seeing Mahomes and Burrow for a likely years to come. Add in a healthy Tua, improved Lawrence, Herbert, and Lamar. The Bills may be in trouble 

 

Gunner, you can spin it or see it as you wish. We've been here many times. The bottom line is the Bills under the McD regime are 4-5 in the playoffs. That just doesn't cut it in my book when you have Allen as your QB. Add in the numerous times the team blew and I mean blew golden opportunities to win big playoff games. You know them better than I. It's becoming a common theme come playoff time the Bills fall short. 

 

Add in an defensive guru coached defense continues to come up short in big playoff games. You can't put all the blame on Fraizer when McD the head coach rode his back year after year. At some point the head coach must be held accountable. Sadly, this year he already has a built in excuse due to injuries. Groundhog Day again. 

 

Nobody knows the future and if McD can lead this team to a SB appearance. It's certainly possible. I'm not naive to think otherwise. However, I've seen year after year of McD falling short. More specifically, I saw him completely give KC a playoff victory. I saw his team unprepared and out coached vs Cincinnati. Facts are facts and excuses are excuses. They certainly get intertwined. 

 

I'm not sure why Bills fans have faith McD is the guy who can lead this team to a SB? Evidence is overwhelming that he is not. Here we go with the Andy Reid analogy. Excuse after excuse continue to roll off so many fans tongues. The high character, Christian, hard working, and blue collar image of the coach seems obscure people's vision. 

 

Let's cut the cord and move in a different direction. The team needs change, needs offensive creativity, needs a spark, needs ingenuity. The clapping, good guy image, and SB champs in September have run it's course. 

 

The Bills are a 3-2 team as we sit five weeks into the season. They are in second place in division. Who expected this? They certainly don't look invincible or world beaters. The literally have beat one playoff caliber team. I just don't see a realistic path where this team represents the AFC. 

 

I know this will be meant with great resistance and perhaps anger. I get that. My intention is not to troll or be the center of attention. The sole purpose is to give my opinion and hopefully open up some eyes to the various changes that could improve the team. 

 

 

 

I don't expect the Bills to make the Superbowl this year. But I don't think that is because of coaching.

[PBF81]

10 hours ago, Richard Noggin said:

The bolded stuff feels a bit selectively alarmist, as the OL appears to be improved, and there are NO 2023 expiring contracts for starters or their top IOL swing guy. The only real failure was not upgrading RT and/or infusing the OT pipeline with bona fide young potential. Many were worried about Dawkins and his physique, and that hasn't borne out thus far. He's been above average. And while Brown is still the weakest link, the floor has been lifted at least a little. 

 

OK, but understand what's being said.  Three of our starting OL men's contracts expire after next season.  Three.  

 

The point was that once that happens is not the time to start addressing that if you're the GM.  Immediately following this season is, in the interests of good planning.  That's not something we've seen here, good planning and a vision for our future OL to protect Allen.  It's been the contrary until we drafted Torrence for the most part.  And yeah, sure, Ford, etc., but out OL had a lot more weaknesses than G back then so the point remains.  

 

Waiting until they all expire, and who knows whether they'll resign any, but Dawkins will probably get more than he's worth from some other team, is not a strategy, it's reacting, not planning and proacting to the circumstances, which are fully known right now.  Right.  That would be poor management in any profession.  

 

 

10 hours ago, Richard Noggin said:

Many have predicted Morse will either hang em up or get released following this season, based primarily upon his concussion history, and the not underpaid presence of Ryan Bates (he's RICK Bates when he plays OG). Right now, though, I don't know how obvious that is if Morse continues to stay healthy and play at a high level. He's not old. 

 

We need to make post-Morse plans.   Given his injury history in coming here, we've been fortunate with him.  But he'll be 32 next season, which may not be "old" for a G or T, but which is old for a C.

 

If he holds up this season he'll probably be fine for next season, but we shouldn't extend him.  Time to move on there.  Also part of optomizing the roster is knowing when to make the tough cuts, or in this case, not extend a player.  

 

 

10 hours ago, Richard Noggin said:

Both lines are improved. The real long term worry should be directed at the DL, tbh. Besides 2 DEs (Rousseau and Miller) and 1 DT (Oliver), this line will probably undergo significant turnover. For a D that FEATURES an 8 or 9-deep DL rotation, that's noteworthy. Especially now that Beane finally got it right. 

 

Improved is one thing, consistently good, like our OLs of the '90s is entirely another.  

 

Until the consistent justifiable complaints about the OL play stop, we can improve.  But once again, three of our five starters are only signed through next season, Morse being one of them.  

 

The immediate focus for us should be building a top-notch OL that will protect Allen to every extent possible and open up holes regularly for our running game.  We didn't talk about our '90s OL like we do our OL today.  

 

IOW, draft Morse's replacement this forthcoming draft.  Late in the 1st is a great place to do that if the best or second best is availalble.  Bates may be the answer, but it's hardly a given.  

 

More importantly, get an OT to replace either Dawkins or Brown, if they're not planning on re-signing one or the other.  And frankly, Brown's been better this season, "improved" as you said, but still only very average for a starting RT at best.  

 

 

 

 

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

I think our HC is the only one in the NFL to be able to fire the GM. 

[PBF81]

7 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

Agree with two points here:

 

1. If a change were to be made it would be HC and GM. They are attached at the hip. I just don't think it is at all close. Terry is still very committed to this regime. 

 

2. They need to be aggressive on the OL again in 2024. McGovern and Torrence have already been a big difference (even though they didn't play well in London) compared to last year and they need at some point to do something at tackle. 

 

The point where I slightly take a different view is on Dion Dawkins. I think if the Bills want to bring him back he'd come back even if that means not testing FA and signing for less than his market value. I think he is totally committed to the team and the community. I only see him moving on if the Bills tell him he is no longer needed. Personally I am fine extending Dion after this season, but extending him wouldn't stop me looking in the draft. And if that means I end up playing Dion RT or even inside then fine (McGovern played some center in college you could shift him there play Dion LG and have a new LT). Essentially if you sign Dion you have a solid baseline at LT. But if you find a potential upgrade you slot Dion in elsewhere.

 

Yeah, I wouldn't disagree with any of that either.  

 

I'm primarily stating things in light of the notion that many players are also often "committed to a city/team," but then the minute that they are offered $20M more, that commitment seems to vaporize.  LOL  

 

Take it as a general comment.  Who knows what they're thoughts are at this point.  

 

 

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

Yeah, I wouldn't disagree with any of that either.  

 

I'm primarily stating things in light of the notion that many players are also often "committed to a city/team," but then the minute that they are offered $20M more, that commitment seems to vaporize.  LOL  

 

Take it as a general comment.  Who knows what they're thoughts are at this point.  

 

You gotta get to FA to be offered that though. I doubt Dion gets there. If the Bills want to extend him he will sign.

 

 

[PBF81]

40 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

You gotta get to FA to be offered that though. I doubt Dion gets there. If the Bills want to extend him he will sign.

 

 

 

Presumably they want to.  There's no reason to believe that they don't.

 

But t the planning for it is in their hands. 

 

 

[Mark92]

So you all are going to tell me that McDermotts seat isn't a tad hot?  Dorsey is awful.

[McBean]

Ben Johnson would win a Super Bowl here.

[Teddy KGB]

Mcclappy can go if we get shutout by the g men 

[Johnnycage46]

Yes.

[MJS]

Or just get a new offensive coordinator. McDermott has the defense playing well.

Edited October 16, 2023 by MJS

[GreggTX]

No, but Ken Dorsey definitely is. OC is over his head. He is unable to make proper adjustments. His play calling has been putrid.

[DJB]

Fire McDermott and hire Ken Johnson

 

ive said this a 100 times. You have to win with an offensive head coach these days.

 

Dorsey is trash 

[PBF81]

49 minutes ago, GreggTX said:

No, but Ken Dorsey definitely is. OC is over his head. He is unable to make proper adjustments. His play calling has been putrid.

 

McD seems to have zero influence or control over the offense in any way, shape, or form. 

 

That's problematic.  

 

 

[boyst]

1 hour ago, GreggTX said:

No, but Ken Dorsey definitely is. OC is over his head. He is unable to make proper adjustments. His play calling has been putrid.

His adjustments seemed to click. The giants defense was amazing. Very amazing to see on the X's and O's. 

 

Amazing job by the Giants D

[Chugga]

McDermott is coaching his ass off for this hobbled injury plagued defense.  Dorsey’s seat should be so hot I don’t know how he can sit

[BillsFan130]

I was always neutral on MCD.

 

But after tonight? Not good on so many levels 

[Chaos]

16 minutes ago, boyst said:

His adjustments seemed to click. The giants defense was amazing. Very amazing to see on the X's and O's. 

 

Amazing job by the Giants D

Didn't the giants d give up 500 yards last game? 

[GunnerBill]

14 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I don't expect the Bills to make the Superbowl this year. But I don't think that is because of coaching.

 

I might revise this after that. Dorsey was atrocious first half and McDermott's time management at the end and the decision to go FG was awful.

[Big Blitz]

1 minute ago, Chugga said:

McDermott is coaching his ass off for this hobbled injury plagued defense.  Dorsey’s seat should be so hot I don’t know how he can sit

 

Exactly.  

[HappyDays]

His clock management in the final 2 minutes was just awful. Run it three times and punt. Why would you put faith in the playcaller and the offensive weapons to execute a pass play?

 

Edited October 16, 2023 by HappyDays

[Chaos]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

I might revise this after that. Dorsey was atrocious first half and McDermott's time management at the end and the decision to go FG was awful.

If you were going to go for the field goal, the third down was a 100% run play call then. 

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Chugga said:

McDermott is coaching his ass off for this hobbled injury plagued defense.  Dorsey’s seat should be so hot I don’t know how he can sit

 

I agree with that. But his time management and decision making as HC was bad.

Just now, Chaos said:

If you were going to go for the field goal, the third down was a 100% run play call then. 

 

Yep. Once Josh threw they should have punted IMO.

[Chaos]

Six seasons in there is zero evidence McDermott can prepare a team to win four games in a row in the post season against playoff caliber teams.  Literally zero evidence.  Hoping is not a strategy. 

[RiotAct]

2 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

His clock management in the final 2 minutes was just awful. Run it three times and kick off. Why would you put faith in the playcaller and the offensive weapons to execute a pass play?

trying the long FG instead of pinning the Giants deep was unconscionable, as well.  Someone check this guy’s bank account…

[boyst]

3 minutes ago, Chaos said:

Didn't the giants d give up 500 yards last game? 

They don't have great players

[LarryMadman]

Bills will not win  Super Bowl with this clown as the head coach. He was a much better defensive coordinator than head coach but 13 secs and tonight have me thinking he is just bad at his job.

[Chugga]

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I agree with that. But his time management and decision making as HC was bad.

 

Yep. Once Josh threw they should have punted IMO.

Agreed.  In big moments we need to have a game plan and I don’t think we had one on our last drive.  If you’re going for the FG then run it 3 times.  If you’re going for the win then let Josh loose.  But playing some weird middle ground gave the giants a short field and a time out.  It’s one or the other they don’t get both.

[CLTbills]

No. Just, no. If you want to talk about yeeting Dorsey into the middle of Abbott Rd, I'll entertain that one.

[VW82]

McD has poured all his energy into the defense with Frazier gone, and for the most part it's been great. Losing Daquon and Milano is devastating.

 

The problem is Dorsey isn't good enough to have this much control. Our plan to ball control and win the clock is blowing up in our face. We're overreliant on Diggs, and it makes us predictable. We're not scaring anyone with our run game. The 11.5 personnel has flopped to date. 

 

We need all hands on deck to decide if it makes sense to stick with the current plan. I don't see how this is going to work against anyone in Jan.

[What a Tuel]

27 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

His clock management in the final 2 minutes was just awful. Run it three times and punt. Why would you put faith in the playcaller and the offensive weapons to execute a pass play?

 

 

If he would have done as you say, (I was shouting not to do this) and the Giants won, you'd be saying he's an idiot for not giving Josh freaking Allen a shot to put the game away. Or someone else would. Thousand different opinions and ways to critique, but in the end a win is a win. Just like the Chiefs near loss to the Texans last year. Just like the Dolphins near loss to the Pats this year. 

[Bockeye]

McD D is fine. Dorsey needs to go. End of statement. 

[Since1981]

Dorsey. Fire him and we will see him hired as a CFL position coach. It’s as much about how much better others can be. The bills O talked too glowingly about Daboll 

Edited October 16, 2023 by Since1981

[KDIGGZ]

1 minute ago, Bockeye said:

McD D is fine. Dorsey needs to go. End of statement. 

If he doesn't make the call to change the play caller it's going to be his job on the line too 

[boyst]

1 minute ago, Since1981 said:

Dorsey. Fire him and we will see him hired as a CFL position coach. 

Lol. No way he ends up going to SD or somewhere to QB coach a young talented dude. Dude is a legit QB coach.