Elam a healthy scratch part deux (now part TRES) (now part QUATRO)

[buffblue]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Everyone is so worried about Miami...in 2 games agasint Tua last year he averaged 201 yards passing against us.  And that was with our secondary banged up with injuries.

And yet they still played us within 3 points every game. They're a year deeper into McDaniel's system and have shown a greater willingness and ability to run the ball when that is what defenses give them. Pass protection has been solid for them without Armstead and Mostert has been very effective. Tua was also obviously concussed in the week 3 game and threw only 18 passes. His passer ratings were 123 and 104 respectively against us, which is pretty good. 

 

I obviously believe the Bills can beat them, but let's not act like they're some mediocre team that hasn't shown the capability of hanging with us before. This reminds me of the December snow game where everyone was saying Tua can't throw in the winter elements. As I recall he played well and if not for the easy TD drop by Sherfield, Miami would have likely won that game

Edited September 21, 2023 by buffblue

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, buffblue said:

And yet they still played us within 3 points every game. They're a year deeper into McDaniel's system and have shown a greater willingness and ability to run the ball when that is what defenses give them. Pass protection has been solid for them without Armstead and Mostert has been very effective. Tua was also obviously concussed in the week 3 game and threw only 18 passes. His passer ratings were 123 and 104 respectively against us, which is pretty good. 

 

I obviously believe the Bills can beat them, but let's not act like they're some mediocre team that hasn't shown the capability of hanging with us before. This reminds me of the December snow game where everyone was saying Tua can't throw in the winter elements. As I recall he played well and if not for the easy TD drop by Sherfield, Miami would have likely won that game

Im not acting like they are a mediocre team.  Im pointing out for all the fear everyone has Tua averaged 201 yards against us last year and Hill was held in check while we had a plethora of injuries.

 

Do you realize that in week 3 the Bills were without the entire starting secondary?  Hyde, Poyer, and Dane missed that game and Tre was still on IR which meant our starting corners facing Hill and Waddle were 2 rookies.  

 

Plus Oliver and Phillips missed that game along with Morse on the offense.  And by the 4 the quarter we had 13 starters out of that game between inactives, injuries and heat issues?  And the ones playing were struggling with extreme heat issues themselves.  
 

Yet we dominated the clock still in that game and held Tua to under 200 yards passing despite missing our entire starting secondary that game.  

 

Sorry, I’m not scared of their offense.  Doesn’t mean they don’t have a good one or are some mediocre team, just means I am not going into the game thinking we can’t handle their offense, especially if Allen and the offense can move the ball like they did last week chewing up long drives and clock time.  

[Billsfanatixs]

It's not a mystery to me, coach said he doesn't practice hard enough back in camp. 

I'm guessing coach hasn't seen what he wants yet

[buffblue]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Im not acting like they are a mediocre team.  Im pointing out for all the fear everyone has Tua averaged 201 yards against us last year and Hill was held in check while we had a plethora of injuries.

 

Do you realize that in week 3 the Bills were without the entire starting secondary?  Hyde, Poyer, and Dane missed that game and Tre was still on IR which meant our starting corners facing Hill and Waddle were 2 rookies.  

 

Plus Oliver and Phillips missed that game along with Morse on the offense.  And by the 4 the quarter we had 13 starters out of that game between inactives, injuries and heat issues?  And the ones playing were struggling with extreme heat issues themselves.  
 

Yet we dominated the clock still in that game and held Tua to under 200 yards passing despite missing our entire starting secondary that game.  

 

Sorry, I’m not scared of their offense.  Doesn’t mean they don’t have a good one or are some mediocre team, just means I am not going into the game thinking we can’t handle their offense, especially if Allen and the offense can move the ball like they did last week chewing up long drives and clock time.  

I am aware. I actually started a lengthy thread about that matchup a while back, in particular a 3rd and long play where our undermanned secondary sat back and still allowed a long bomb to Waddle that swung the tide of the game. It was more of a discussion about Frazier and his conservative tendencies.

 

We shall see what happens. I know I responded to your post in particular, but the content could probably be applied to a lot of different posts about the Dolphins. It just seems there is a general sense of taking Miami lightly around here, which to me is misguided. As I've stated before the Bills are going to be at a massive disadvantage in the division if they don't win in week 4.

 

Hopefully Buffalo will take care of business and find a way to slow them down.

Edited September 21, 2023 by buffblue

[BrettFavre]

I'm afraid Kaiir is a bit of a dunderhead, a bit slow upstairs, doesn't have both oars in the water, bless his heart.

[Alphadawg7]

31 minutes ago, buffblue said:

I am aware. I actually started a lengthy thread about that matchup a while back, in particular a 3rd and long play where our undermanned secondary sat back and still allowed a long bomb to Waddle that swung the tide of the game. It was more of a discussion about Frazier and his conservative tendencies.

 

We shall see what happens. I know I responded to your post in particular, but the content could probably be applied to a lot of different posts about the Dolphins. It just seems there is a general sense of taking Miami lightly around here, which to me is misguided. As I've stated before the Bills are going to be at a massive disadvantage in the division if they don't win in week 4.

 

Hopefully Buffalo will take care of business and find a way to slow them down.

 

I cant speak for anyone else...but just because I am not terrified of them and their offense it doesn't also mean I am taking them lightly.  I recognize they can be a dangerous opponent, I mean its a divisional rival and playoff contender.  Still doesn't mean I don't think we are the better overall team.

 

Yes, fins got lots of firepower, but they also went on a 5 game losing streak last year with Tua that people forget where his turnovers and decisions were the main cause of those losses.  And head to head, he averaged just 201 yards against us which included a game where we were without our entire starting secondary and our interior DL.  

 

I just believe we are the better team on both sides of the ball.  I mean, I will take our set of offensive players led by Allen over their set of offensive players led by Tua 100% of the time.  And our defense has always been better than theirs, and still is this year.  

 

 

[AuntieEm]

2 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Im not acting like they are a mediocre team.  Im pointing out for all the fear everyone has Tua averaged 201 yards against us last year and Hill was held in check while we had a plethora of injuries.

 

Do you realize that in week 3 the Bills were without the entire starting secondary?  Hyde, Poyer, and Dane missed that game and Tre was still on IR which meant our starting corners facing Hill and Waddle were 2 rookies.  

 

Plus Oliver and Phillips missed that game along with Morse on the offense.  And by the 4 the quarter we had 13 starters out of that game between inactives, injuries and heat issues?  And the ones playing were struggling with extreme heat issues themselves.  
 

Yet we dominated the clock still in that game and held Tua to under 200 yards passing despite missing our entire starting secondary that game.  

 

Sorry, I’m not scared of their offense.  Doesn’t mean they don’t have a good one or are some mediocre team, just means I am not going into the game thinking we can’t handle their offense, especially if Allen and the offense can move the ball like they did last week chewing up long drives and clock time.  

Yea Tua and his fun to watch offense isn't gonnabe so fun to watch as the cameras close in on them sitting their benches watching their d get worn out. 

 

And it will be because we outplay them and not asking the sun to wear them out.   

 

[Charles Romes]

I would analyze the officials crew and play Elam if they are letting the DBs play. He’s a press corner with good instincts as shown by the Miami playoff game. 

[VaMilBill]

If I were the Bills, I’d consider trying to trade him to Dallas for a 3rd. They just lost travon diggs

[John from Riverside]

On 9/17/2023 at 9:23 AM, whorlnut said:

That’s just it…Elam didn’t fit what this team does schematically. It was a head scratcher then and especially  now. 

Looking at it now I agree
I thought that the drafting of Elim might have been a prelude to going more to a man scheme. Would you need to be able to walk down these really good receivers?

[Joe Ferguson]

On 9/17/2023 at 9:06 AM, Draconator said:

Dalton Kincade says hold my beer 

Kincade is not a wide receiver

[Billl]

6 hours ago, boyst said:

We are very good at stopping the top player for the opposite team. We aren't so good against the rest but historically we shut down the #1. Even Hill against us isn't lighting it up ever. 

Does “ever” include 391 yards in 3 postseason games?

[boyst]

10 minutes ago, Billl said:

Does “ever” include 391 yards in 3 postseason games?

I don't count big the one or two big plays he makes. And that fumble thing he picked up and ran, I don't count that either.

 

The sooner this jerk is out of the league and bankrupt then the sooner he will be to joining a long list of other has beens like himself

[Milanos Milano]

1 hour ago, Joe Ferguson said:

Kincade is not a wide receiver

He’s a big slot. 

[JoPoy88]

1 hour ago, Joe Ferguson said:

Kincade is not a wide receiver

semantics. You know as well as anyone Kincaid’s strengths and what he’s being asked to do at this point in the offense. He’s a pass catcher.

[gr8billsfan]

On 9/17/2023 at 8:34 AM, Einstein said:

Yeah, I think it’s obvious that Elam is a bust as far as this team is considered.

 

Maybe he can resurrect his career with a team that runs more man.

 

On 9/17/2023 at 8:35 AM, JayBaller10 said:

He and his scouting team selected him. It’s looking like Beane’s worst 1st round pick and he traded up no less. 

the guy has started 6 games with two picks. y’all wrote him off without the coaching staff utilizing as the player he is… what a shame

[AuntieEm]

1 hour ago, gr8billsfan said:

 

the guy has started 6 games with two picks. y’all wrote him off without the coaching staff utilizing as the player he is… what a shame

Let's see how Elsm.plays when he us active on a GameDay and actually is in the game.  He may be sent in to play his man coverage on a specific 0layer mcd feels he matches up with best.  That could be Hill or Wsddle  guess it depends on what look the Miami offense gives.  We will see if mcd activates him in any of the next few games.  

[Solomon Grundy]

9 hours ago, BrettFavre said:

I'm afraid Kaiir is a bit of a dunderhead, a bit slow upstairs, doesn't have both oars in the water, bless his heart.

Says a lot about our scouting department if this is the case 😎

[Low Positive]

Since this is a closet “Beane misses on draft picks” thread, I’ll put this here. Howie Roseman built a super bowl team, largely via the draft. Howie Roseman also drafted Jalen Reagor one pick before the Vikings took Justin Jefferson. Reagor is currently on the Pats practice squad. Jefferson is the best WR in the NFL. They had to go out and trade for A.J. Brown. That cost them not only draft capital but also cap space. I’m sure Eagles fans wanted Roseman’s head for this.

[Einstein]

8 hours ago, gr8billsfan said:

 

the guy has started 6 games with two picks. y’all wrote him off without the coaching staff utilizing as the player he is… what a shame

 

If there is one thing I abundantly trust McDermott with, it’s defensive backs.

 

If McDermott doesn’t think he is good enough to make active, I trust him, and the statistics show he is correct.

 

- Elam allowed a reception on 75% of the times he was targeted last season. 

 

- QB’s had a 98 passer rating when targeting him last season.

 

- He averaged 12 yards given up per reception.

 

In summary: 75% of the time he was targeted, he gave up a reception. Of those 75% receptions, the average reception was a first down (and then some). 

 

.

Edited September 22, 2023 by Einstein

[Brand J]

9 hours ago, gr8billsfan said:

 

the guy has started 6 games with two picks. y’all wrote him off without the coaching staff utilizing as the player he is… what a shame

I didn’t write him off, the coaching staff did (at least for now). They’re the ones making him a healthy scratch every Sunday.

[FireChans]

2 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

If there is one thing I abundantly trust McDermott with, it’s defensive backs.

 

If McDermott doesn’t think he is good enough to make active, I trust him, and the statistics show he is correct.

 

- Elam allowed a reception on 75% of the times he was targeted last season. 

 

- QB’s had a 98 passer rating when targeting him last season.

 

- He averaged 12 yards given up per reception.

 

In summary: 75% of the time he was targeted, he gave up a reception. Of those 75% receptions, the average reception was a first down (and then some). 

 

.

Correct. If McD can’t make you serviceable as a CB, you must be legit awful.

[Thrivefourfive]

For anyone thinking the Edmunds draft pick was bad.. look at this Raideresque first round mega bust 

[Breakout Squad]

14 hours ago, Thrivefourfive said:

For anyone thinking the Edmunds draft pick was bad.. look at this Raideresque first round mega bust 

Can a late 1st rounder really be considered a mega bust tho?

[NI Bills Fan]

Elam is at least showing the correct attitude in the situation he has found himself in. Saying all the right things.(see below)

 

https://heavy.com/sports/buffalo-bills/kaiir-elam-roster-benched-comments-reaction/

 

I'm taking the positive on the Elam benching in that it's not that he's terrible, it's that Benford is seen as a better option right now.  Elam provides decent/good cover at the position with room to improve.

[Thrivefourfive]

1 hour ago, NI Bills Fan said:

Elam is at least showing the correct attitude in the situation he has found himself in. Saying all the right things.(see below)

 

https://heavy.com/sports/buffalo-bills/kaiir-elam-roster-benched-comments-reaction/

 

I'm taking the positive on the Elam benching in that it's not that he's terrible, it's that Benford is seen as a better option right now.  Elam provides decent/good cover at the position with room to improve.

Still waiting for a Benford or an Elam to be anything more than, Oh look, this guy might actually be an NFL player. 
 

So far, these guys are not championship caliber. I don’t mean hall of fame - ish, I just mean that every championship team has lesser known contributors that make plays and have games that directly lead to that trophy. Hyde, Poyer from a few years ago, Milano right now.. they were/are stars primed for a ring and they feel right at home if they were on the podium on Super Bowl Sunday. Looking for Benford and Elam to be the EVERSON WALLS of this team (I cannot believe I just typed that name )🤮

[Goin Breakdown]

My whole thing is, if Elam is a man coverage guy and we play zone mainly, then why draft him?  Some will say need, but supposedly we dont draft for need. (That's what we're told anyway . We know what they're doing but ownership like to act like the fans are dumb)  anyway I really feel like Elam would be better suited on another team instead of wasting his prime years. He was projected to be a good to great player and for some reason Sean McD...fensiveback can't get him to be even serviceable?  Something doesn't add up to me. 

[Einstein]

Just read a sobering stat.

 

Of the 32 first round picks in his draft class, Elam is the only one to be a healthy scratch last week.

[Punching Bag]

12 minutes ago, Goin Breakdown said:

My whole thing is, if Elam is a man coverage guy and we play zone mainly, then why draft him?  Some will say need, but supposedly we dont draft for need. (That's what we're told anyway . We know what they're doing but ownership like to act like the fans are dumb)  anyway I really feel like Elam would be better suited on another team instead of wasting his prime years. He was projected to be a good to great player and for some reason Sean McD...fensiveback can't get him to be even serviceable?  Something doesn't add up to me. 

 

Bills MANAGEMENT knows SOME of their fans are dumb although not as many as Washington Team Football fans.

Bills tested him during drafting period and felt he could learn to play zone.  He was a big corner which was something they needed.

When Elam is on field he does not seem to be able tp keep his hands off receivers as they do in college.

Yes some CBs get away with doing this but rarely Bills players.

 

If Elam can learn to keep his hands off receivers he can be used more and then he will be able to show he can assume starting QB role.

Most of the CBs the Bills have picked who have not come from 1st round played in zone schemes in college and some come from "football families" which gives them a leg up.  Elam is a very talented and physically supreme defensive back but zone defenses are a lot harder to learn which is why in college most teams use man-to-man.

[nedboy7]

Is zone easier to play than man?  I assume you would have to be more cerebral but could get away with less talent? 

[Goin Breakdown]

26 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

Bills MANAGEMENT knows SOME of their fans are dumb although not as many as Washington Team Football fans.

Bills tested him during drafting period and felt he could learn to play zone.  He was a big corner which was something they needed.

When Elam is on field he does not seem to be able tp keep his hands off receivers as they do in college.

Yes some CBs get away with doing this but rarely Bills players.

 

If Elam can learn to keep his hands off receivers he can be used more and then he will be able to show he can assume starting QB role.

Most of the CBs the Bills have picked who have not come from 1st round played in zone schemes in college and some come from "football families" which gives them a leg up.  Elam is a very talented and physically supreme defensive back but zone defenses are a lot harder to learn which is why in college most teams use man-to-man.

Why is this a problem with Elam but when Sauce does it, he gets "rewarded". 

 

[Punching Bag]

37 minutes ago, Goin Breakdown said:

Why is this a problem with Elam but when Sauce does it, he gets "rewarded". 

 

 

I do not know.  This has happened repeatedly to Bills. 

I used to think it was part of pressure on Bills on getting new stadium but Bills are already committed to a new stadium.

Maybe Bills analyst division needs people to view tape and learn what calls each Zebra makes like some other teams. 

I know some players have been taught to keep hands near boundary where the calls are made or make sure not visible to zebra so when player complains nothing happens.

[Bad Things]

1 hour ago, Einstein said:

Just read a sobering stat.

 

Of the 32 first round picks in his draft class, Elam is the only one to be a healthy scratch last week.

Sorry... I'm still not sober after reading that.

[Goin Breakdown]

47 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

I do not know.  This has happened repeatedly to Bills. 

I used to think it was part of pressure on Bills on getting new stadium but Bills are already committed to a new stadium.

Maybe Bills analyst division needs people to view tape and learn what calls each Zebra makes like some other teams. 

I know some players have been taught to keep hands near boundary where the calls are made or make sure not visible to zebra so when player complains nothing happens.

Yeah. I really wish they were just consistent. This ref call more. This one lets players play and so on. 

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, Limeaid said:

 

I do not know.  This has happened repeatedly to Bills. 

I used to think it was part of pressure on Bills on getting new stadium but Bills are already committed to a new stadium.

Maybe Bills analyst division needs people to view tape and learn what calls each Zebra makes like some other teams. 

I know some players have been taught to keep hands near boundary where the calls are made or make sure not visible to zebra so when player complains nothing happens.

 

 

Crackpots gonna' crackpot.

[Sierra Foothills]

On 9/19/2023 at 9:48 AM, NoSaint said:

though as a nickel the skill set changes too.  He could be valued more outside than inside and that be part of the issue with reps

 

I agree with NoSaint. Kaiir has good size but he's not what I'd call physical and he wasn't a particularly good tackler in college.

 

I don't think he profiles as a slot corner, especially in our system.

 

 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

He was one of the highest graded CBs in the playoffs last year.

[billsfan89]

Just now, Buffalo_Stampede said:

He was one of the highest graded CBs in the playoffs last year.

That’s what’s frustrating for me is that Elam played well at times last season, so the question is are the Bills other corners just playing better and It’s not that Elam can’t play effectively or has Elam regressed in some way? 
 

I know the Bills do not dress him larger because he is not a ST player and Dane and Benford start over him but I hope as the season goes on they find a way to utilize their most athletic corner who also showed flashes of good play his rookie year. 
 

Long term would they consider moving him to safety? Not sure he would translate there.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

5 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

That’s what’s frustrating for me is that Elam played well at times last season, so the question is are the Bills other corners just playing better and It’s not that Elam can’t play effectively or has Elam regressed in some way? 
 

I know the Bills do not dress him larger because he is not a ST player and Dane and Benford start over him but I hope as the season goes on they find a way to utilize their most athletic corner who also showed flashes of good play his rookie year. 
 

Long term would they consider moving him to safety? Not sure he would translate there.

The thing that’s hard for fans to realize is he’s still developing. He’s still practicing. He could still be in the Bills plans. 
 

But right now Bedford is the better player and Tre White isn’t going to the bench. Elam could replace White next year in a salary cap move.  He still has 2 years left on a rookie deal and also the option year.
 

 

Edited September 24, 2023 by Buffalo_Stampede

[Punching Bag]

22 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

Long term would they consider moving him to safety? Not sure he would translate there.

 

I do not think so. Despite his size he does not seem to be a good tackler and safeties need to be safety valves.